ChiefDada
Gold Member
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[Digital Foundry] Hellblade 2 Preview Reaction: The New State of the Art for Unreal Engine 5?
- Thread starter ChiefDada
- Start date
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
- Metahuman tech used for Senua's facial animations, 'up there with the absolute best'
- Animation is 'unbelievably good'
- Lots of high quality post processing used. Some aliasing around Senua's hair due to DoF but otherwise it's very good
- Typical UE5 features like Nanite and Virtual Shadow Maps present. Geometric elements like pebbles show pin-sharp shadows, including crisp self-shadowing.
- Some shadow transition (from low to high quality) observed in footage
- Lumen also seen in the footage DF were given
- Possible that there may be some SSR, DF thinks it's a mix of techniques for reflections
- Compared to the first game, 'it's on a whole another level'
- Latest game play footage DF sampled was ahead of the 2021 trailer but doesn't fully match the original 2019 announcement trailer
- The game can look soft due to liberal use of post-process effect, they think film grain can be quite harsh and hopes the final game has option to disable it
- Post process also makes it harder to determine internal resolution, however in one specific slow-motion attack skill, the game disables motion blur where DF were able to see fine edges
- 1296p to 1440p counted in Senua's slow-motion attacks where motion blur gets disabled
- Letter boxed image makes it more like 2304 x 964 to 2560 x 1070p
- Volumetric effects like fog renders at a lower resolution
- Footage given to DF was encoded at 30hz instead of 59.99 like the console normally runs 30 FPS games at
- No drops in DF's footage but the encoding makes it harder to gauge fluidity (likely they mean things like frame-pacing)
- Based on the SX footage, DF thinks this will be one of the more/most demanding PC projects on release as well
- They did not have Series S footage so can't comment on specifics but would like to find out more about its lower internal resolution etc.
- Animation is 'unbelievably good'
- Lots of high quality post processing used. Some aliasing around Senua's hair due to DoF but otherwise it's very good
- Typical UE5 features like Nanite and Virtual Shadow Maps present. Geometric elements like pebbles show pin-sharp shadows, including crisp self-shadowing.
- Some shadow transition (from low to high quality) observed in footage
- Lumen also seen in the footage DF were given
- Possible that there may be some SSR, DF thinks it's a mix of techniques for reflections
- Compared to the first game, 'it's on a whole another level'
- Latest game play footage DF sampled was ahead of the 2021 trailer but doesn't fully match the original 2019 announcement trailer
- The game can look soft due to liberal use of post-process effect, they think film grain can be quite harsh and hopes the final game has option to disable it
- Post process also makes it harder to determine internal resolution, however in one specific slow-motion attack skill, the game disables motion blur where DF were able to see fine edges
- 1296p to 1440p counted in Senua's slow-motion attacks where motion blur gets disabled
- Letter boxed image makes it more like 2304 x 964 to 2560 x 1070p
- Volumetric effects like fog renders at a lower resolution
- Footage given to DF was encoded at 30hz instead of 59.99 like the console normally runs 30 FPS games at
- No drops in DF's footage but the encoding makes it harder to gauge fluidity (likely they mean things like frame-pacing)
- Based on the SX footage, DF thinks this will be one of the more/most demanding PC projects on release as well
- They did not have Series S footage so can't comment on specifics but would like to find out more about its lower internal resolution etc.
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Hrk69
Member
It's pretty
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Good to see them not skimping on using all the UE5 bells and whistles, also at the very least there's no drops in DF's footage. That's encouraging at least.
It's probably not happening, but I wouldn't be opposed to them having an Unlock FPS option in the release version so people with VRR displays can maximize the potential.
It's probably not happening, but I wouldn't be opposed to them having an Unlock FPS option in the release version so people with VRR displays can maximize the potential.
gooner4life_uk
Member
sub HD rendering, liberal use of fog and smoke to reduce draw distance of the environment, not as good visually as HZD let alone Forbidden West.
UE5 is a pointless waste of time on this hardware.
UE5 is a pointless waste of time on this hardware.
funking giblet
Member
Will look great on PS5!!!
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
If I'm not mistaken, this is going to be the first shipped UE5 game with Metahuman in it.
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GymWolf
Member
First ue5 game with metahuman yes.If I'm not mistaken, this is going to be the first shipped UE5 game with Metahuman in it.
But horizon was the first game that used metahuman for its models (that's why they are the gold standard for open world npcs).
Don't ask me how the fuck decima can integrate unreal metahuman tho.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I know Death Stranding 2 is using Metahuman but I can't find any source for Horizon FW using Metahuman, can you share please?
Just by looking at them, the character models in Forbidden West don't have anywhere near the kind of facial animation that Metahuman based games have (like this, or that incredible Captain America / Black Panther footage)
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HeWhoWalks
Gold Member
Some of y’all are buggin’! Game looks fabulous!
lh032
I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
on the PRO!!!!!
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I think it will look insane when it is running natively in front of you.
rm082e
Member
I guess I appreciate that tech is being pushed forward. But I don't think it's really worth it if they then have to make a bunch of compromises, or if it takes a lot of working hours to implement that tech. I'd rather see the industry focus on building tools that are easy to use and reduce the number of working hours needed to make the game.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
We can't say for sure if the final game will have an option but it looks like it'll be letterboxed.
nosoynadie22
Gold Member
I was sure that it would have a low resolution, despite being at 30fps, it has basically the same density as 1080p, right?
Bojji
Member
Insanely blurred for sure
There should be mandatory options to disable 3/4 of those shit effects, fuck your "creators intent" dear developers (at least on PC there should be way more options for that).
2304 x 964 is 2 221 056 pixels, 1080p is 2 073 600 so very, very close.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Aside from letter box, the geometry itself seems to be rendered at 1260p to 1440p internally, so it'll have more density. The game uses very heavy post process so it won't be the sharpest IQ even though it's using Unreal's (very good) TSR to reach 4K.
GymWolf
Member
Horizon is also a crossgen game 3 years old by now, of course it can't match a WAY smaller and newer nextgen game.
But it still has the best ncps models and digital acting out of any open world game (and majority of small games), BY FAR, only cyberpunk come close and that game has a way smaller cast than horizon 2.
i can't find the news anymore, i posted a link in the graphical whores topic some time ago.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
This is using the expensive things like Lumen and virtual shadow maps as well, so Series S might be hit worse than Starfield.
GymWolf
Member
You can probably find more info with a google search.
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nosoynadie22
Gold Member
For the S series we can expect a pixel density similar to 720p or 640p, right? I knew that not having a 60fps option was because the internal resolution was terribly low, let's see if the final version maintains these resolutionsInsanely blurred for sure
There should be mandatory options to disable 3/4 of those shit effects, fuck your "creators intent" dear developers (at least on PC there should be way more options for that).
2304 x 964 is 2 221 056 pixels, 1080p is 2 073 600 so very, very close.
TxKnight7
Member
Will look Best ON PC!! 60 Fps!!
this and Squadron 42 are true next gen games
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Senua
Gold Member
Excited to turn most of it off. Game looks awesome though
MisterXDTV
Member
Fixed, as usual
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
This one will be quite the looker like the first game. I'm afraid that the rest of it won't be as good but they got it on Game pass so you don't have to waste your money spend more
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I'm not talking or comparing asset quality or how good the modes look, Metahuman is a very specific thing for faces and animations.
Like, this shit here is *INSANE* and I haven't seen any game released yet that matches it.
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GymWolf
Member
I think metahuman is both about incredibly detailed faces and facial expressions.
GymWolf
Member
The most impressive thing is that characters that you see for about 5 sec with just one single throw away line are as detailed as the main protagonist, no open world gets even close to horizon ncps prowess and it's probably gonna remain the same until witcher 4 or horizon 3.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Cyberpunk has a much smaller cast than Forbidden West?
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
GOTY
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Visuals, Atmosphere and combat just looks incredible. Goodness
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sncvsrtoip
Member
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Nonsense, as usual
Let’s not even go into the sub $1000 PCs with 3070 Ti/4060 GPUs.
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Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Will still look best on the $3000 rig though.Nonsense, as usual
Let’s not even go into the sub $1000 PCs with 3070 Ti/4060 GPUs.
GymWolf
Member
I think so, like unique characters giving sidequest, cyberpunk usually has one character giving you a sidequest, in horizon there is usually like 2-3 characters in a group that give you a sidequest (not always but in like more than 50% of the cases), also half of the sidequest in cyberpunk are via cellphone, sometimes you don't even seen anyone personally giving you the quest, but in horizon every single sidequest is given by a character that you have to interact with, so more models to create, more animations to do for the chitchat etc.
I'm 95% sure that horizon has more unique characters than cyberpunk. (quantity wise)
And you can notice the difference in detail between more important characters and secondary\tertiary character, but in horizon every character that has at least one line of dialogue, is as detailed as aloy, down to microdetails like the almost invisible facial hairs.
I think cyberpunk could have a more varied number of simple npcs walking in the streets tho.
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Kaiserstark
Member
Projects — 3Lateral
3Lateral - Empowering digital characters accross AAA productions
Their website is not working well right now but I found someone who had shared their article about the work they did on Horizon.
Guerrilla has outdone itself yet again with the last “Horizon Forbidden West,” released in February 2022. This second game in the series is considered a triumphant combination of enthralling combat with the top-tier creature and character designs that together form a captivating open world populated with astonishing tribes. The 3Lateral team, alongside our friends from Cubic Motion, were thrilled to be a part of this masterpiece by helping bring the characters to life.
The attention to detail on each of the game's characters, on top of the incredibly rich world design, provides a level of immersion that envelops players in the story. Each tribe is distinct from one another and the costume design on display throughout the game is breathtaking. To accomplish such quality and consistency, the project required a vast pool of game characters of different descent, age and demography.
Guerrilla was an early adopter of the technology that contributed to the creation of MetaHuman Creator, and for this sequel, they generated 168 unique characters utilizing MetaHuman core tech. 20 people were scanned in order to create the “hero” characters, while additional talent was scanned to produce a “data gene pool” that was used as a statistical back-end to generate another 67 characters via MetaHuman core tech. Each of these characters uses the same LOD design, which is supported by the MetaHuman assets, enabling them to be used to deliver content for marketing materials, cinematics and within the gameplay set in the open world of “Horizon Forbidden West.” There is more to come with the Horizon franchise, and we're happy to share that our teams continued their collaboration throughout the production of "Horizon Forbidden West: Burning Shores," creating additional characters for the DLC.
Guerrilla knows that a cutting-edge asset creation pipeline needs an animation process of equal fidelity. Our animation team was commissioned to capture facial animation data across the full range of “Horizon Forbidden West’s” cast of characters, and in the end, we delivered more than seven hours of footage to be used across their characters. The optimal approach to performance analysis and solving allows for flexibility and scalability via pixel-accurate machine vision tracking of an actor’s face and then combining that with a complex mapping of the actor’s performance data to a facial asset.
Guerrilla completed the casting of a large number of actors, who were captured in various locations across the globe. For instances where a single actor could play multiple roles, but the actor needed to be captured in different locations using a variety of cameras, our team delivered a solver solution capable of securing consistency across performances. Streamlined by our experienced service team, this pipeline enabled Guerrilla to maintain a high-quality bar across such a massive game.
The DNA file format paired with Rig Logic from MetaHumans was also used in the “Horizon Forbidden West” project. This DNA file structure is becoming recognized as a data standard for the representation of digital humans in AAA projects and interactive entertainment in general. RigLogic secured run-time performance for facial rigs and enabled optimization of both the rig evaluation speed and memory footprint for the character asset. In terms of memory optimization, RigLogic does not require baking the rig elements per frame (e.g. joints, blend shapes, or wrinkle maps), and instead only requires baking the head rig control animation, which is memory light.
MisterXDTV
Member
That was my point....