• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Wii U Speculation Thread 2: Can't take anymore of this!!!

Status
Not open for further replies.

HylianTom

Banned
You can be sure that for the Wii U Zelda, they'll have sections where you'll play in top-down view on the controller.

I'm imagining sections of the game where Link has to use his mole mitts to burrow underground, with the action switching to the uPad as he navigates these areas.

Either that, or he can somehow possess a bombchu and go into cracks/crevices/holes and navigate via uPad..
 

Jarsonot

Member
I think a 2D side scrolling Zelda could be awesome. Think super metroid, but it's link sprinting around, jumping, hook-shotting, etc. oh yeah.
 

HylianTom

Banned
Oh, and I am hungry for Wii U news to the point where I'm at a certain banned Nintendo site's page going through all stories with the "Wii U" tag. There's a lot of stuff I've forgotten or missed in the past 8 months.. I had completely forgotten that, at one point, Sega was predicting a Spring/Summer 2012 release!
 
The point was the systems in question were able to have games better looking than their respective tech demos, at least as far as LoZ is concerned. It didn't matter when TP came out or what other Zeldas came before, but the mere fact that it still did came out on GCN.
But who cares what Zelda game we're going to get at the very end of Wii-U's life? I'd rather imagine what Zelda I'll be playing in a couple years on Wii-U, which obviously won't be anywhere near as big a jump as that Gamecube one.
 

botty

Banned
Unless someone mistranslated Miyamoto again, it's probably happening already.

If Retro is making Zelda, I will be surprised. They seem to only get franchises that are beginning to fade away (Metroid/Donkey Kong). I could see them getting Star Fox (Rare worked on it before) or even F-Zero (they did work on Mario kart right?). Then again, I am in the camp that wants them to make their own new IP.
 

AntMurda

Member
Zelda is not big in Japan. It never was.

That's a big claim my friend. You do realize that several Zeldas has sold over a milion copies. Several Zeldas have sold between 500-900k copies. I mean how much are you assuming a "big series" selles in Japan?

Now. One of the big issues is that complex 3D games sell far less than 2D / "simple 3D" games in Japan. That is not an inherent Zelda fault, but moreless a 3D game in general fault. Ironically, 3D hardcore games sell better on hand helds than they do on consoles. We could go much deeper, but I will leave it at that.


Unless someone mistranslated Miyamoto again, it's probably happening already.

It was a very general statement. Then he even clarified how it was using the Mario Kart example were Retro Studios worked in an unauthoritative confine. Just a suggestive cooperative one. Which would refute all these ridiculous Retro is God fanboy dreams.
 

botty

Banned
Why not? It would still be overseen by Aonuma and Miyamoto. They'd just put a more "western" twist on it.
Probably more action, faster pacing, layout overhaul.

I don't know if Nintendo would ever let someone else touch Mario or Zelda (excluding spin-offs of course). And the changes people are asking for should, in my opinion, be put towards a new IP.

I'd like to see what Retro can do without "piggybacking" off of a known series. That isn't to discredit their work.
 
I don't know if Nintendo would ever let someone else touch Mario or Zelda (excluding spin-offs of course). And the changes people are asking for should, in my opinion, be put towards a new IP.

I'd like to see what Retro can do without "piggybacking" off of a known series. That isn't to discredit their work.

1. Capcom did, what? 3 main line Zeldas?

2. Their name is Retro Studios. Their existence is to breath life into retro franchises.

Everyone wants them to make new IPs... why? What's the point.
Everything else being the same, will what characters are in it really change anything?
Nintendo has a giant backlog of games that they could (and should) revive, and Retro is a great studio for that.
 

botty

Banned
1. Capcom did, what? 3 main line Zeldas?

2. Their name is Retro Studios. Their existence is to breath life into retro franchises.

Everyone wants them to make new IPs... why? What's the point.
Everything else being the same, will what characters are in it really change anything?
Nintendo has a giant backlog of games that they could (and should) revive, and Retro is a great studio for that.

According to the "timeline," aren't all Zelda games mainline? Either way, I was referring to the console Zeldas. I don't think Zelda is outdated enough to be considered retro, but then again people do say the formula is "tired."

Allowing Retro to make their own IP doesn't limit them to certain protagonist and antagonist that are constants in some Nintendo series (especially Zelda). They have all those great ideas and artist, that deserve to imagine up their own heroes.

but then again they totally screwed up with those tiki things in Donkey kong ;)
 

Reallink

Member
If Retro is making Zelda, I will be surprised. They seem to only get franchises that are beginning to fade away (Metroid/Donkey Kong). I could see them getting Star Fox (Rare worked on it before) or even F-Zero (they did work on Mario kart right?). Then again, I am in the camp that wants them to make their own new IP.

SS took 5 years, has sold maybe 3 million units (?) world wide since November, and was widely berated for being too similar to the OoT formula. I'm pretty sure Nintendo would consider farming it out at this point in hopes that a western studio could reboot it, get it out within a single console generation, and perhaps enjoy sells success closer to the level of a CoD, GTA, or whatever.
 
I would love it if the graphics of Zelda on Wii U were like the tech-demo. I don't want another massive change in graphics like we got from SpaceWorld 2000 to Wind Waker.
 

PsySal

Member
Everyone wants them to make new IPs... why? What's the point.
Everything else being the same, will what characters are in it really change anything?

The point of "new IP" is to change more than just the characters. Existing franchises have boatloads of expectations; this prior work is constantly being reworked and rehashed rather than genuinely new ideas coming out, because diverging too far from it is suicide.

Many potentially great game ideas are not getting made as long as we are stuck in the land of sequel-itis. Even mainstream movie sequels and "reimaginings" rarely approach the extent to which this afflicts even a modestly-milked gaming franchise.

I myself am sick of Zelda and Mario and I wonder if those teams responsible for them at Nintendo aren't a little bit sick of Zelda and Mario, too.

EDIT: I do realize you were talking about Retro studios but this is a pet peeve and I can't resist getting drawn into arguments like this.
 

botty

Banned
SS took 5 years, has sold maybe 3 million units (?) world wide since November, and was widely berated for being too similar to the OoT formula. I'm pretty sure Nintendo would consider farming it out at this point in hopes that a western studio could reboot it, get it out within a single console generation, and perhaps enjoy sells success closer to the level of a CoD, GTA, or whatever.

A Zelda will never see sales success close to Cod or GTA because it doesn't have the same mass appeal, nor is it a multi platform title. I wonder if changing the Zelda formula too much would even be a smart thing, considering it is the core Zelda fans that make up the majority of sales. Although, Twilight Princess was lucky to be apart of the early Wii hype


Say what? The
Tikis
were great enemies. I'll take them over 500 different cliched
Kremling types
anyday.

Not to knock the final boss, but I expected more from Retro than
a Tiki Andross/Masterhand hybrid.
And don't forget that DKC also had
Zingers and Neckys
 
I would love it if the graphics of Zelda on Wii U were like the tech-demo. I don't want another massive change in graphics like we got from SpaceWorld 2000 to Wind Waker.

Eh, I actually thought the tech demo was a little too generic, just like the spaceworld 2000 demo. It lacked unique art direction. It was fantastic looking on a technical level, but too run-of-the-mill for my tastes.
 
I don't see a Retro Zelda as impossible.

But not necessarily very likely, either.

They might end up providing art assets or designing minigames for the next one and eventually get a shot, though.
 
The point of "new IP" is to change more than just the characters. Existing franchises have boatloads of expectations; this prior work is constantly being reworked and rehashed rather than genuinely new ideas coming out, because diverging too far from it is suicide.

Many potentially great game ideas are not getting made as long as we are stuck in the land of sequel-itis. Even mainstream movie sequels and "reimaginings" rarely approach the extent to which this afflicts even a modestly-milked gaming franchise.

I myself am sick of Zelda and Mario and I wonder if those teams responsible for them at Nintendo aren't a little bit sick of Zelda and Mario, too.

EDIT: I do realize you were talking about Retro studios but this is a pet peeve and I can't resist getting drawn into arguments like this.

There's been several new Nintendo IPs on the eShop in the last few months. Xenoblade, Last Story and Pandora's Tower are all new Nintendo-owned IPs debuting in the west this year. You can't expect Nintendo to stop making Mario and Zelda, but to act like that's all they make is dishonest. Even Kid Icarus is a new IP on everything but name.
 
I don't see a Retro Zelda as impossible.

But not necessarily very likely, either.

They might end up providing art assets or designing minigames for the next one and eventually get a shot, though.

Agreed. As much as I think it would be cool, I see any mainline Zelda's being EAD or nothing, plain and simple. For better or worse, Zelda IS EAD, I don't ever see Nintendo changing that despite whatever market or fan out cry's there may be. And I think a lot of that boils down to tradition and NCL thinking.
 
Eh, I actually thought the tech demo was a little too generic, just like the spaceworld 2000 demo. It lacked unique art direction. It was fantastic looking on a technical level, but too run-of-the-mill for my tastes.


Still, I wouldn't mind a Wii U Zelda looking like that overall, with better art-direction.
 

PsySal

Member
There's been several new Nintendo IPs on the eShop in the last few months. Xenoblade, Last Story and Pandora's Tower are all new Nintendo-owned IPs debuting in the west this year. You can't expect Nintendo to stop making Mario and Zelda, but to act like that's all they make is dishonest.

Fair enough! I wasn't being dishonest though, just responding to the person who asked, "what's the point of new IP?"

To be even more honest I recently played Twilight Princess and found it underwhelming, which is really the most immediate source of my ire. I did and still do love Windwaker.

That said, I would rather see the best designers, programmers and artists at Nintendo do something different than either Zelda and Mario. And I'd rather see Retro Studios do something other than DK or Metroid.

Remember Zelda was once "new IP" and we're better off for it.
 

Instro

Member
SS took 5 years, has sold maybe 3 million units (?) world wide since November, and was widely berated for being too similar to the OoT formula. I'm pretty sure Nintendo would consider farming it out at this point in hopes that a western studio could reboot it, get it out within a single console generation, and perhaps enjoy sells success closer to the level of a CoD, GTA, or whatever.

3.42m as of Dec 2011, which makes it the fastest selling Zelda ever. Whether or not it has legs is another matter. It also holds like 93-94 on metacritic. I don't see how there is a reason to let anyone other than EAD work on the series. Also how would Zelda ever sell at the level of CoD or GTA? It doesn't have that kind of mass appeal, nor does it appear on multiple platforms.

I don't see a Retro Zelda as impossible.

But not necessarily very likely, either.

They might end up providing art assets or designing minigames for the next one and eventually get a shot, though.

Assisting with the art and environment design would make sense. Can't really see them being more involved in the series than that though. By the time they hold that level of trust in the company they should be working on new IPs.
 
Fair enough! I wasn't being dishonest though, just responding to the person who asked, "what's the point of new IP?"

To be even more honest I recently played Twilight Princess and found it underwhelming, which is really the most immediate source of my ire. I did and still do love Windwaker.

That said, I would rather see the best designers, programmers and artists at Nintendo do something different than either Zelda and Mario. And I'd rather see Retro Studios do something other than DK or Metroid.

Remember Zelda was once "new IP" and we're better off for it.

Yeah, dishonest wasn't the best term to use, because I mostly agree with you. Nintendo does still develop a lot of new IP, but often neglect it, as with Xenoblade. I think what everyone wants when they talk about new Nintendo IP is another high concept, action-adventure game developed by one of their flagship teams. Something to hang with Mario, Metroid and Zelda. And I really want to see that as well. Like I said, Kid Icarus is mostly that, except in name. Sliding difficulty, loot, team-based online, it's a real anomally of a Nintendo game I'd love to see it be successful enough to be iterated upon further.
 
I'd like to see Retro be given a green light to "retrofit" old cherished gaming staples from the old school into a sleek modern game, under a new IP. So many great ideas (especially from the nes/snes and og PC days) that would be amazing if cleverly implemented into a new modern game.

It would allow them to sidestep any "aggressive Nintendo oversight" when handling a classic IP. And instead go full force into a new IP borrowing and retrofitting all kinds of cool stuff into something brand new. Could you imagine if Tanabe's and Nintendo's only mandate was "take any old school ideas of interest and modernize them in a new IP", imagine the freedom and creativity that could come from that, on the Upad no less.
 
I see where you're coming from, but I still have my reserves; SS was a step onto a different kind of zelda that I enjoyed, I felt in some sense they ran from solving problems like the overworld thing, that they'll have to address, but it worked pretty well so I'd like to see a spiritual sucessor to it, in order to perfect it. I think wii U turns that into a dificult assignment seeing they'll probably have to compromise.

I don't have solutions, I just think it's probably too soon for the idea to be executed as it should; same was true for the wiimote in 2006 actually, it took the wiimotion plus to be able to do well most of the things the original controller unveilment video promised; and it could be improved further.Hmm... I doubt Nintendo is thinking of anything like that; unless it's a new 4 swords move/thing.

They wouldn't make a main title, main quest dependent of that.That sounds like a MMO of sorts, no?

Actually remember discussions of those possibilities after E3 2004, seeing the trailer featured hords of orcs and fighting them horseback and the series had various races already (I also believe that would have been around the time WoW was taking off).

Yeah it could work, but I wouldn't be interested; that's not zelda for me.


One of the things that really thrilled me on SS was how they turned enemies into puzzles; that was very zelda-ish. I don't see how they could pull something like that in a cooperative scenario of one on one or something mmo.

Then again, something 4 swords or lost vikings'ish could be other story. (as an extra mode/spin-off)

It will be difficult But I do hope they come up with 2 control methods somehow. With Zelda, I wouldn't want it to become an MMO what I meant is that instead of having a midna character, the second character can also be controlled by a co-operative player. Their role would involve solving puzzles for link. In single player mode you will be limited to either a classic control system where the secondary character is controlled specifically by the console but in co-op mode and have a choice of wiimote or subscreen controls. The co-op plyaer however, can on one half of the game be playing one character in the story such as midna for example then controlling sheik in another part of the game. Maybe in the one player mode you can swap and give the console control of link while you play the role of sheik to solve a certain puzzle but that might take away from the immersion of the hero's journey.

On the other hand, and this is more general, not related to Zelda; I believe we're going too fast; 3D needed two generations to achieve a certain level of maturity (imo there's not many "regular" games whose gameplay this gen couldn't be recreated on a 128-bit console), I genuinely believe we could have another generation to perfect the wii concept and only then needing something else because that "core mechanic" has been perfected.

I honestly think the concept to present then could be the wii U, but we have to have in mind that this concept could change the way things work.

My point being: current gen consoles are limited at this point, but still can recreate pretty much anything that the wii-u/current PC's will do/are doing running on a game per game basis; the question being how far the developers want to go (I'd like to point out how Xenoblade managed to be so ambitious on a underpowered console) current gen developers are shrinking the scope of their games so they can pull better local detail (doom 3 logic) but they also could do so much more with it.

My point is, at this point power doesn't really matter anymore, hence why Nintendo chose to bid for something new; the wiimote. The competitors recently had to do the same thing, and will have to do it for the next console; because power is not what's gonna sell them anymore (I'd also point out that Sony seemingly didn't understand this just yet looking at Vita and how they couldn't make it a focused product on some functionality rather than focusing on graphics and adding everything else they could think of)

wii U, though, changes that paradigm; it's a thing with the potential of having various controllers plugged to it so the first thing you'll want to do is having 4 controllers and player one being able to do mario kart co-op with a friend, a third gamer playing some tetris/angry birds from the wii-u-ware store and a fourth playing a virtual console/wii game. It's a game streaming workstation; except it can't really be executed this gen, because they brought back the power paradigm, from the situation any game is doable for the ballpark the platform is in, to the fact that the platform lacks the power to do so.

As a result wii-u can only be done properly when OnLive-type setups become viable or when the platform is so dammed powerfull they can assign 1/4 of the power to each app, allowing 4 people to do different things on it, and still developers not feeling like they're very limited with that cap.


You touch on some very good points. User experience is the main key and the visual department is now starting to become a commodity much like how sound has now become a commodity in games where it is content and not technology that will become the driving force.
Even where technology can still be a driving force is in the area of control mechanics you still need some software to back it up such as the balance board and wii fit, the Wii remote and Wii Sports/Wii Play. We definitely need another generation to get the whole wii idea of multiple assymetrical control options. The WiiU will be the next balance board/Wii Play in that it will come packaged with software and everyone in the family will have a personalised one integrated with their Mii.

I mentioned A while back about the possibility of playing wiiware on one tablet and a virtual console game on another tablet while the main TV plays a WiiU game and the WiiU with four players splitscreen against another team in a team deathmatch game acting as a master processing all three games at once. It is not hard to fathom being able to do that and providing these subscreens even more usefulness around the house in things not even gaming related. It will save having to spend $800 for an ipad if all people want to do is play games and read books or browse the net for videos and articles.

Wii have all witnessed the nintendo revolution where control is king. Look at kinect and its sucess and look at how sony has jumped into motion/touch controls twice due to knee jerk reactions, first with the six axis/move and now with VITA. This revolution all started before the DS came out and nintendo knew they needed to compete in the gaming industry hat went away from the graphics arms race which they were already losing during the N64/GC era that SONY and Microsoft became big players in.

Once 2004 came and the new touch control method was introduced by nintendo into gaming I think the wriiting was on the wall in regards to which direction nintendo would go to in the next decade. Then came the wii in 2006 and it only confirmed this even more with Motion Controls. Since then we have had the balance board which has introduced even more women into using consoles like the DS did before it and now We have the WiiU which will have a new tablet control method that although is an extension of the DS paves the way with online and social interaction like never before.

This is where WiiU becomes interesting. Yes tablets are around now, but They are expensive and usually used by only one person around the house. Having Cheap tablets that can do the job of browsing/watching/reading/listening/playing/socialising using proprietry and standardised apps may provide less choices but if the majority of people are already used to these options you will find that not many will complain about having less choice. Sure we may not have 1000 fart apps but 999 is enough.
 

ecosse_011172

Junior Member
http://www.gametrailers.com/side-mission/2012/02/23/gearbox-president-on-aliens-colonial-marines-for-intriguing-wii-u/

Gearbox President on Aliens: Colonial Marines for 'Intriguing' Wii U
Posted by: Rocco DeMaro | 02/23/2012 at 01:00pm



“The controller of the Wii U is obviously where there is new opportunity for innovation in interactivity. Meanwhile, our hope at Gearbox is that the final specification for the hardware is much more powerful than the current competitive consoles so that studios like ours can bring a better standard of high definition image not only to television, but to the controller’s screen at the same time.”

Those are the words of Gearbox Software President Randy Pitchford. He and his company are hard at work on a Wii U build of Aliens: Colonial Marines, a version of the game that, based on the system's (alleged) horsepower and potential for innovation, could very well end up as the definitive edition of A:CM.

“We’ve been developing a number of interesting features using the unique capabilities of the controller and the hardware. We’ll talk about these details in due time as the work is still very much an R&D project and things may change. Clever people that are familiar with the brand can imagine some of the more obvious, interesting things we can do.”

Nintendo Gamer landed some time with Mr. Pitchford, who had this to say on the Wii U's much-discussed and still very much in-flux final hardware specs.

“Out of respect for our friends and partners at Nintendo, I think specific technical details regarding the hardware should come from them,” he said, adding, “we’ve been intrigued by what we’ve seen so far and are encouraging Nintendo to go as aggressively as they can afford with the performance specifications. We imagine that performance specifications are within affordable reach that would provide undeniable performance advantages over competitive platforms. Nintendo have a lot more experience than we do in managing the balance between performance and cost with their hardware, of course, so I do not want to be presumptuous.”

On Gearbox's preference for more power:

It’s natural for us to wish for the most power possible. I imagine that the extent to which the Wii U outperforms the PS3 and 360 is the extent to which Nintendo have an opportunity to motivate hardcore gamers to prefer their new platform over the existing ones. I believe that Nintendo are aware of this and it’s clear from certain aspects of the design that have already been made public that attracting the interest of the kinds of gamers that currently prefer the PS3 or 360 is likely part of their objective.

On the Wii U's opportunity to make a splash with third-party developers, a notorious weak spot for Nintendo:

I think Nintendo’s biggest opportunity with this console, though, lies in having third-party game makers that can turn out to reliably be as successful or more successful making games for their system as they can be through making games for Sony or Microsoft’s hardware. I think Nintendo can do something to encourage that, but it requires them using their resources to promote the third-party games as strongly as they promote their own. I imagine that would be a cultural challenge, but if they can achieve that they can have the power of the entire creative industry on their team.



I don't read that as very encouraging :-(
 

guek

Banned
It's pretty in line with what we've all been thinking. It sounds to me like he just wants the bump to be bigger than it currently is, which is to be expected if the wii u isn't a powerhouse console. It also sounds like nintendo is listening to their feedback and that changes are still possible. The interview seems both hopeful and realistic at the same time, but in the end I doubt they'll get the power that they want.
 
“The controller of the Wii U is obviously where there is new opportunity for innovation in interactivity. Meanwhile, our hope at Gearbox is that the final specification for the hardware is much more powerful than the current competitive consoles so that studios like ours can bring a better standard of high definition image not only to television, but to the controller’s screen at the same time.”

“we’ve been intrigued by what we’ve seen so far and are encouraging Nintendo to go as aggressively as they can afford with the performance specifications. We imagine that performance specifications are within affordable reach that would provide undeniable performance advantages over competitive platforms. Nintendo have a lot more experience than we do in managing the balance between performance and cost with their hardware, of course, so I do not want to be presumptuous.”

"It’s natural for us to wish for the most power possible. I imagine that the extent to which the Wii U outperforms the PS3 and 360 is the extent to which Nintendo have an opportunity to motivate hardcore gamers to prefer their new platform over the existing ones. I believe that Nintendo are aware of this and it’s clear from certain aspects of the design that have already been made public that attracting the interest of the kinds of gamers that currently prefer the PS3 or 360 is likely part of their objective.
[/B]

I don't read that as very encouraging :-(

You found these parts discouraging in what way?
 

nordique

Member
http://www.gametrailers.com/side-mission/2012/02/23/gearbox-president-on-aliens-colonial-marines-for-intriguing-wii-u/

“we’ve been intrigued by what we’ve seen so far and are encouraging Nintendo to go as aggressively as they can afford with the performance specifications.


How is this discouraging man? Saying they've been intrigued is by no means a bad sign, and its extra good that they are convincing Nintendo to be "aggressive" with performance specs. Sounds like Nintendo is listening, at least to the extent it supports their business model.

Further, this new tidbit of information pops up...

I imagine that the extent to which the Wii U outperforms the PS3 and 360 is the extent to which Nintendo have an opportunity to motivate hardcore gamers to prefer their new platform over the existing ones. I believe that Nintendo are aware of this and it’s clear from certain aspects of the design that have already been made public that attracting the interest of the kinds of gamers that currently prefer the PS3 or 360 is likely part of their objective.


this is actually very encouraging especially for many who have been suggesting the system is a weak one.


seriously, negative gaffers,

YCVuI.jpg
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom