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[Log4Girlz]

Again, a guy rolls up on you in the middle of the night. He tails you for at least two minutes on the way back from a convenience store. He pulls up beside you and approaches you - and the he's the one that gets to claim self-defense?

I don't understand the people that try and go out of their way for this guy. He's a vigilante that has no issue with racial profiling if nothing else.

Harvey fails to understand how this is threatening. He sees NO THREAT in following someone in a car then exiting said car, at night, and confronting a person. Said person has no reason to feel threatened, the entire action is legal. Again, he sees NO THREAT.

 

[PROSTHETIC]

Again, a guy rolls up on you in the middle of the night. He tails you for at least two minutes on the way back from a convenience store. He pulls up beside you and approaches you - and the he's the one that gets to claim self-defense?

I don't understand the people that try and go out of their way for this guy. He's a vigilante that has no issue with racial profiling if nothing else.

I don't mean to pick on you, but you've mentioned many things like him carrying a gun as a watchman, ignoring the police, confronting the kid, claiming self defense after being the aggressor, ALL TRUE. But I don't want people to get the wrong idea. Each of those conditions alone are completely legal and do not automatically mean he's guilty. It's when you add all those conditions up, does it point to Zimmerman definitely being at fault and Zimmerman definitely is going to be convicted. I would be blown away if he remains free.

 

[TAJ]

Harvey fails to understand how this is threatening. He sees NO THREAT in following someone in a car then exiting said car, at night, and confronting a person. Said person has no reason to feel threatened, the entire action is legal. Again, he sees NO THREAT.

Carrying a gun, no less.
That definitely wouldn't get my guard up. No, sir.

 

[Dude Abides]

As has been said (or should be said), simply getting beat up by one guy is not considered "grievous bodily harm" for which discharge of a firearm is warranted. Now if he was jumped by several guys, that's different. but one on one vs a guy with skittles...

It should not be said, because it is not true. Breaking someone's jaw, for example, can be grievous bodily harm.

 

[Devolution]

I don't mean to pick on you, but you've mentioned many things like him carrying a gun as a watchman, ignoring the police, confronting the kid, claiming self defense after being the aggressor, ALL TRUE. But I don't want people to get the wrong idea. Each of those conditions alone are completely legal and do not automatically mean he's guilty. It's when you add all those conditions up, does it point to Zimmerman definitely being at fault and Zimmerman definitely is going to be convicted. I would be blown away if he remains free.

So arrest him and charge him, then we can know if he's guilty. That's kind of the fucking point here.

 

[PROSTHETIC]

So arrest him and charge him, then we can know if he's guilty. That's kind of the fucking point here.

You used some harsh language when responding to me and sometimes I think it's anger being directed at me. I don't know you so I'm not going to assume that's how you meant it.

 

[Satch]

i'm more upset by this today than i was yesterday

and it makes me feel useless :/

 

[echoshifting]

i'm more upset by this today than i was yesterday

and it makes me feel useless :/

I know that feel bro =|

 

[Kettch]

You used some harsh language when responding to me and sometimes I think it's anger being directed at me. I don't know you so I'm not going to assume that's how you meant it.

We're simply pretty incredulous at the fact that a guy shot and killed an unarmed 17 year old on a sidewalk and is walking around free while his excuse is being investigated.

 

[PROSTHETIC]

We're simply pretty incredulous at the fact that a guy shot and killed an unarmed 17 year old on a sidewalk and is walking around free while his excuse is being investigated.

Yeah, it is crazy to think that this could happen. I think the problem is a screwed up part of the Florida statute.

776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—
(1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
(2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.
(3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).

This is blowing my mind right now. The police needs "probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful" FIRST, and only then can they arrest the guy. Here's a quote from the Miami Herald.

"When I asked the police why there’s been no arrest, they told me they respected the guy’s background, that he had a four-year degree; that he was clean," Tracy Martin said.

This is probably why they haven't arrested him. I'm not saying it's the right way to handle this.

If anyone is curious, here's the link to the entire Florida statute Chapter of justifiable use of force.

 

[60_gig_PS3]

i'm more upset by this today than i was yesterday

and it makes me feel useless :/

Here you go..use this as a dart mat it'll make you feel better.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Geor...38955183126.2007652.1502929511&type=3&theater

 

[Kettch]

This is probably why they haven't arrested him. I'm not saying it's the right way to handle this.

I also can't imagine that it's the normal way something like this is handled. Maybe someone will come in with other Florida cases where killers are near-immediately let loose based purely on a claim of self-defense, but that would just blow my mind even further.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

It should not be said, because it is not true. Breaking someone's jaw, for example, can be grievous bodily harm.

and such can happen in a fist fight. any fist fight. YOU drawing a gun in a 1v1 fist fight that YOU provoked will usually mean YOU going to jail.

Unless you want to argue that the use of deadly weapons should be acceptable in any and every fight that may happen based on the premise that there is a slim possibility that you could have a bone broken. I admit, that would be an interesting argument for you to make.

 

[phosphor112]

This news is depressing. It seems like he was only guilty of being black.

There is nothing Zimmerman hates more than Arizona and their Iced Tea.

Colored candy.

 

[justjohn]

How is this dude still alive? never mind free.

 

[Foxy Fox 39]

I think his personal feelings are impossible to know and not the primary method of determining if something is a threat. The method the man used and the actions he took will be looked at by prosecutors and police and a determination will be made. What I am saying is that the act of pulling up to and approaching a teen is not inherently or necessarily a threat. The details are needed to decide that, and the investigation will do this.

PLEASANT HILL, Calif. -- A 21-year-old man was killed in a drive-by shooting in Pleasant Hill late Friday night, police said.

Police received a call of a possible shooting in the 200 block of Devonshire Court at about 10:06 p.m. Friday.

Once there, officers determined that multiple shots had apparently been fired from a vehicle in the direction of people who were in front of a home.

Police and emergency responders found the 21-year-old victim who was struck by the gunfire and pronounced him dead at the scene.

Gabriel Salgado, 17, was shot at least once in the head about 6:40 p.m. Thursday, and died hours later at Marian Medical Center.

The boys were shot while standing on the sidewalk near a row of mailboxes in front of Salgado's home in the 1700 block of 21st Street in Oceano.

Basti said multiple gunshots were reportedly fired from the passenger side of a vehicle traveling south on 21st Street just 10 to 12 feet from the victims.

Police say the 32-year-old victim is a parking attendant at the 5 Star Parking Garage in the 700 block of Chestnut Street.

Around 7:30 Wednesday evening, she told police two black men driving a newer model white minivan pulled up to her window. According to sources, the victim told police the men claimed to have a broken window and needed her help. So she says she stepped out to investigate and that’s when the men forced her into the back of the minivan and taped her hands and feet.

Three Teen Girls have come forth in last Three days with Three reports of attempted abductions in the Rochester, N.Y. area.

The first attempted abduction occurred Monday night in the small Town of Marion, N.Y. located 24 miles from Rochester, NY. A young female teen was walking on Mill Street in the town when a man called the teen to his car asking if she needed a ride. After the teen stated no to the offer of a ride the suspect then reached out of the car grabbing the teen by the forearm, the teen broke free of the man's grip and fled home reporting it to her parents.

The 20-year-old victim said he was walking along the road when a dark blue Chevrolet Trailblazer-style SUV pulled alongside him and a passenger opened fire, according to police.

The victim was shot in the upper leg. He was able to run to a friend's house nearby and was taken to a hospital by the friend, police said. His injuries are not considered life-threatening.

A teenage boy was sexually assaulted by a stranger as he walked through a Brighton park.

The student was attacked in Preston Park by an older man who he had met just minutes earlier.

His attacker, who told the victim his name was Gavin, attempted to rape him.

The boy managed to fight him off and ran away.

He bumped into friends and a few hours later contacted Sussex Police. The boy’s attacker is described as in his 20s, white, clean-shaven and with a tribal-style tattoo which stretched along his upper arm. He was wearing a white top and grey tracksuit bottoms.

A 14-year-old boy was bludgeoned in the head Tuesday night as he walked home in Chicago’s Logan Square neighborhood, police said.

Brian DeLeón was walking home from studying at his girlfriend's house when he was attacked on a secluded block of 2900 block of West Bloomingdale Avenue.

"What happened to him, he doesn't deserve that at all," said that girlfriend's father, Joe Vasquez.

WORCESTER, Mass. — Worcester police are looking for three men they say accosted a 20-year-old college student walking home from a late-night study session, forced her into their car, sexually assaulted and took her purse.

Police say the Clark University student was walking home from a friend's dorm at about 3:30 a.m. Thursday when a car pulled alongside and the occupants started talking to her.

She tried to ignore her, but a backseat passenger pulled her into the vehicle.

Police say she was slapped and sexually assaulted.

Personally I would not feel threatened if a car simply pulled up and a man got out. I live in a city and I'm surrounded by people constantly. This would not necessarily make me uncomfortable. It could if circumstances were right, but that can't be related to a case in which we don't have the details.

Interesting. Tell me more KHarvey.

Police in Derby are appealing for information after a man was assaulted as he walked home through Chaddesden.

At around 1am on Wednesday a 27-year-old man was walking along Max Road when a silver hatchback car pulled up alongside him.

The passenger asked the victim if he had a mobile phone and when he said no the passenger got out of the car and punched the victim in the head.

The victim retaliated and two other men then got out of the car and also assaulted him.

The victim suffered bruising and swelling to his face.

The men are described as black and in their mid 20s.

White knighting? You fucking morons. It's like talking to children.

ಠ_ಠ

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Interesting. Tell me more KHarvey.





ಠ_ಠ

you're just a child in his eyes.

 

[Devolution]

KHarvey16
stalk me in your car, see if i care

 

[Enzom21]

Here you go..use this as a dart mat it'll make you feel better.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Geor...38955183126.2007652.1502929511&type=3&theater

Hmm... he updated his profile pic and he just so happens to be with one of us negroes. What convient timing.

 

[Suikoguy]

Hmm... he updated his profile pic and he just so happens to be with one of us negroes. What convient timing.

wait, that's really the guy?
you can't make this shit up

 

[bigboss370]

Hmm... he updated his profile pic and he just so happens to be with one of us negroes. What convient timing.

yeah i was just about to comment on this. what an amazing coincidence, his profile pic.

 

[Roger Danish]

Hmm... he updated his profile pic and he just so happens to be with one of us negroes. What convient timing.

Very subtle PR move! This should definitely change the public perception of him on a subconscious level! No one will be the wiser!

 

[echoshifting]

How is this dude still alive?

Well, he still lives in a society that hasn't been reduced to vigilante justice, fortunately for him. And all of us.

 

[DY_nasty]

KHarvey16
stalk me in your car, see if i care

How inviting.

But will there be skittles?

 

[deadbeef]

I think I'll pass on this Intermittent Fasting. All my lifts took a nose dive this week.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I think I'll pass on this Intermittent Fasting. All my lifts took a nose dive this week.

lol, word word.

 

[Slayven]

How inviting.

But will there be skittles?

Just the promise of hot camming later.

 

[echoshifting]

I love how you guys keep focusing on the skittles when clearly the ice tea is the weapon of choice here...nice diversion! You can't fool me, I have seen what tea can do to a man

 

[justjohn]

Hmm... he updated his profile pic and he just so happens to be with one of us negroes. What convient timing.

hahahaha

 

[PROSTHETIC]

This is an incredibly sad yet interesting case about an unarmed kid dying and a man claiming self defense. It's disheartening to see thoughtful posts willfully ignored by so many posters who would rather make jokes about skittles and ice tea.

 

[echoshifting]

This is an incredibly sad yet interesting case about an unarmed kid dying and a man claiming self defense. It's disheartening to see thoughtful posts willfully ignored by so many posters who would rather make jokes about skittles and ice tea.

This is ridiculous. There have been 26 pages of discussion, many of them good ones. We can't keep repeating the same arguments ad nauseum. This is what happens when there is nothing else to discuss but people are still attached to the issue.

 

[PROSTHETIC]

This is ridiculous. There have been 26 pages of discussion, many of them good ones. We can't keep repeating the same arguments ad nauseum. This is what happens when there is nothing else to discuss but people are still attached to the issue.

I admit I did join in late, but that was only due to reading the entire thread, thinking about the story and doing some research. I attempted to address certain issues and questions that were still going unanswered or ignored even at 20+ pages. If someone has nothing else to discuss then it would probably be appropriate to step away from the thread as there might still be some people with things to discuss.

 

[echoshifting]

I admit I did join in late, but that was only due to reading the entire thread, thinking about the story and doing some research. I attempted to address certain issues and questions that were still going unanswered or ignored even at 20+ pages. If someone has nothing else to discuss then it would probably be appropriate to step away from the thread as there might still be some people with things to discuss.

What would you like to discuss, prosthetic?

 

[deadbeef]

lol, word word.

Well shit

 

[PROSTHETIC]

What would you like to discuss, prosthetic?

Well, if you have read all of my posts and have nothing to say to me or discuss with me then, I guess you and I have nothing left to discuss. However, like I said, there MIGHT be some other people with something to discuss, which is what I'm waiting on.

 

[Devolution]

How inviting.

But will there be skittles?

You best bring that shit over heah before 6. I don't want anything to happen to ya.

 

[Professor Beef]

How inviting.

But will there be skittles?

Fuck Skittles.

SOUR Skittles, on the other hand...

 

[Kinyou]

I love how you guys keep focusing on the skittles when clearly the ice tea is the weapon of choice here...nice diversion! You can't fool me, I have seen what tea can do to a man

The guard guy probably sprinkled the skittles on him anyway.

 

[cobragt4001]

I can't fucking believe that some people find some way to defend that trash. I doubt the man approached the black boy and a fight started. More than likely the watchman said something to offend the black boy and the fight started. It's a goddamn shame that this guy isn't in jail for what he did and why the fuck is a gun an answer to a fist fight? I guess the watchman was so upset that he was getting his ass handed to him by a 17 black kid he had to shoot him :smh:

 

[PROSTHETIC]

I can't fucking believe that some people find some way to defend that trash. I doubt the man approached the black boy and a fight started. More than likely the watchman said something to offend the black boy and the fight started. It's a goddamn shame that this guy isn't in jail for what he did and why the fuck is a gun an answer to a fist fight?

I don't believe anyone has outright defended Zimmerman saying what he did was right or justified. If I missed this somewhere then I apologize. All I have seen is Kharvey asking questions and people taking his questions as a sign that he believes X or Y. I have a feeling that he is just unwilling to make a definitive judgement on this before he knows EVERYTHING. Some people can not understand how he can do this, but it's just his nature. Please, correct me if I'm misrepresenting you harvey.

Also, I don't believe anyone has directly said a gun is an answer to a fist fight, yet. Having just said that, I believe, and the law agrees, there are very specific and infrequent events where a gun COULD be an answer to a fist fight. But this probably should be discussed in a different thread, as some people will object to us injecting this into the discussion.

Again, I will say that I personally believe Zimmerman should be convicted of causing this kids death.

 

[Dram]

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/man-who-shot-killed-teen-sanford-neighborhood-has-/nLPgL/

George Zimmerman was arrested in 2005 for battery on a law enforcement officer. He's accused of shooting and killing 17-year-old Trayvon Martin on Feb. 26, but hasn't been arrested.

The teenager was visiting family in a gated community and walking home after going to a convenience store.

His family only learned about Zimmerman's criminal past when we told them. This news came as quite a shock for Martin's mother. They said Sanford Police never gave them any indication of this.

The family's attorney believes this is more reason the neighborhood watch leader should have been arrested when he shot and killed the teenager.

The case was dismissed, but Martin's mother said it should've been considered 11 days ago when Zimmerman shot and killed her son.

Zimmerman had called police to report a suspicious black man in the neighborhood, and even though dispatchers told him not to confront the teenager, he did.

They got into a scuffle and Zimmerman, who is the neighborhood watch leader, shot the teenager in the chest, but was never arrested.

"You had a person with a prepotency toward violence, or at least the appearance," family attorney Natalie Jackson said.

Sanford Police knew about the arrest, but said again Friday that 28-year-old Zimmerman has been cooperative.

The family also filed a public records lawsuit against Sanford Police Friday because the department won't release the 911 call Zimmerman made before he shot the teen.

 

[cobragt4001]

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/man-who-shot-killed-teen-sanford-neighborhood-has-/nLPgL/

Now we know more about this asshole.

 

[Jim E. Rossler]

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...immerman/1502929511+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
The original profile before edit

He cant be racist! he likes Coltrane!

 

[Dreams-Visions]

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/man-who-shot-killed-teen-sanford-neighborhood-has-/nLPgL/

KHarvey?

 

[Parallax]

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/man-who-shot-killed-teen-sanford-neighborhood-has-/nLPgL/

so he has a criminal history, and hes neighboorhood watch captain? this reeks of bullshit.

 

[Reallink]

Picking apart a weak argument by inserting gangbanging into the mix out of fucking nowhere?

Oh, right. Black + young + male x night time ^# of gunshots = "don't count out gang activity... im jus sayin"

Again, was not saying or implying the black guy was involved in anything gang related. I only used that as an example of when a deadly armed Vs. unarmed altercations might be accepted/justified and cleared legally--particularly a case involving a teenager and adult (specifically in response to Prosthetic's earlier assertion that an unarmed 17yo could never poses a threat to an adult). Please read the entire discussion before you take comments out of context.

Some people seem to be under the mistaken impression that deadly armed Vs. unarmed cases should always result in an immediate arrest and conviction--no they shouldn't. Maybe this guy's a racist, maybe he's not. From what I gather there's not enough public evidence to (fairly) say one way or the other--though a lot of people seem happy to give him the chair based solely on their assumptions and prejudices. Yes I said prejudice, racism and stereotyping are a two way street. A lot of hypocrites in here seem all to happy to assume this white guy was a bigot out to purge his neighborhood of minorities-- just as he was (supposedly) assuming minorities were out to murder, rape, and pillage his neighborhood. No on all accounts. You're no better than the guy your condemning.

Personally, I think there are only a few potential ways this case played out:

A) This guy was honestly just trying to keep an eye on his neighborhood and would followed and approached any unrecognized individual out for a stroll at this time (be they white, black, brown, yellow, young, old, or crippled). Supposing that, it seems unlikely he would have approached this individual threateningly--banishing a gun or tossing slurs and epithets. In such a case, the "victim" would have had to have been the aggressor--perhaps taking offense to being following, playing the race card out of nowhere, and/or threatening/starting physical violence which eventually resulted in the shooting.

B) This guy was a Grade A racist fuck who happened to spot a black kid prowling his neighborhood, followed him, and approached him in an obviously threatening/condescending/racist manner. Threw the first punch, and ultimately pulled the gun and shot him.

C) Some combination of A and B.

It really sad to see so many people convinced it's scenario B with so little apparent evidence.

 

[jaxword]

so he has a criminal history, and hes neighboorhood watch captain? this reeks of bullshit.

Nah, it reeks of money, privilege, and Old Boys' Club.

The norm for how this country REALLY works.

 

[Satch]

under the jail

 

[Roger Danish]

You're no better than the guy your condemning.

Well, he's a little better, as he probably hasn't shot or killed anyone.

EDIT:

Supposing that, it seems unlikely he would have approached this individual threateningly--banishing a gun or tossing slurs and epithets.

Waving a firearm and yelling out the n-word aren't the only ways to "approach threateningly," my dude.

In such a case, the "victim" would have had to

Non sequitur alert!

In such a case, the "victim" would have had to have been the aggressor--perhaps taking offense to being following, playing the race card out of nowhere, and/or threatening/starting physical violence which eventually resulted in the shooting.

Aaaaaand you're done.

 

[DY_nasty]

Again, was not saying or implying the black guy was involved in anything gang related. I only used that as an example of when a deadly armed Vs. unarmed altercations might be accepted/justified and cleared legally--particularly a case involving a teenager and adult (specifically in response to Prosthetic's earlier assertion that an unarmed 17yo could never poses a threat to an adult). Please read the entire discussion before you take comments out of context.

Some people seem to be under the mistaken impression that deadly armed Vs. unarmed cases should always result in an immediate arrest and conviction--no they shouldn't. Maybe this guy's a racist, maybe he's not. From what I gather there's not enough public evidence to (fairly) say one way or the other--though a lot of people seem happy to give him the chair based solely on their assumptions and prejudices. Yes I said prejudice, racism and stereotyping are a two way street. A lot of hypocrites in here seem all to happy to assume this white guy was a bigot out to purge his neighborhood of minorities-- just as he was (supposedly) assuming minorities were out to murder, rape, and pillage his neighborhood. No on all accounts. You're no better than the guy your condemning.

Personally, I think there are only a few potential ways this case played out:

A) This guy was honestly just trying to keep an eye on his neighborhood and would followed and approached any unrecognized individual out for a stroll at this time (be they white, black, brown, yellow, young, old, or crippled). Supposing that, it seems unlikely he would have approached this individual threateningly--banishing a gun or tossing slurs and epithets. In such a case, the "victim" would have had to have been the aggressor--perhaps taking offense to being following, playing the race card out of nowhere, and/or threatening/starting physical violence which eventually resulted in the shooting.

B) This guy was a Grade A racist fuck who happened to spot a black kid prowling his neighborhood, followed him, and approached him in an obviously threatening/condescending/racist manner. Threw the first punch, and ultimately pulled the gun and shot him.

C) Some combination of A and B.

It really sad to see so many people convinced it's scenario B with so little apparent evidence.

?

Yes. Yes, you were. I don't even... like, why should that even come up? Did you read the articles? Look at the many pictures of this kid?

I don't know the specifics of the case, or whether the two actually got into a physical altercation, but these are foolish assumptions to make without actually seeing those involved. I'm pushing 30, 6', and weigh 135 lbs. A 17 year old "kid" could definitely beat my ass and curb stomp my head. Most 17yo "kids" are for all intents and purposes full grown adults, many of whom weight train and condition for sports. The black guy could have been a lineman on the football team for all we know. It's beyond stupid to say "oh, this guy was in his 20's, there's no way a 17yo posed a thread". You realize most of the gangbangers that go around beating people to death for fun are in their teens, right? And no, I'm not defending the (possibly) racist douche (I have no idea of the details of the case), I was simply correcting your weak argument.

You know for a fact you're smaller than the national average right? Why put that forward to topple someone else's weak argument?

Any rational person would say that the minor here was clearly not the one who created or escalated this entire situation. What you are doing is reaching. Well he MIGHT be a freak athlete. PLENTY of kids his age run in gangs. This kid could've been HUGE - When the much more likely , the kid probably was scared shitless when a car rolled up on him and a guy with a bulky object around his waist hopped out to approach him like a man on a mission. Not everyone goes fetal when they get scared. Some people fight hard as hell when they feel their life is on the line. The guy approaching the kid doesn't even have to say anything other racial at all. The only obvious racially related thing in the entire situation is the profiling. Its extremely hard to say that this guy wasn't threatening. But again, you have to go far, far out of your way to say that a 26 yr old man wasn't the aggressor here.