-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest
- Thread starter Dram
- Start date
- Status
You know, the funny thing is, neither of them have the final authority to interpret whether or not the law applies here. That's up to the courts.
Yeah that is true. Still it gives some credence to the belief that law doesn't shield Zimmerman or any vigilante justice types from prosecution. I mean its the Senator who crafted the law after all, that says a lot.
Aaronology
Member
Zimmerman, a criminal justice student, fabricated a defense to avail himself of a controversial law to immunize himself from prosecution. Stand Your Ground isn't really the problem here, though, it's the Sanford PD. They are the ones who allowed Zimmerman to walk when he claimed he got out of his truck and was ambushed from behind, a demonstrably false story. They are the ones who attempted to shield themselves from criticism by citing this self defense legislation when it's apparent from the 911 tapes that it doesn't apply to this case. It was their incompetence and/or corruption that let Zimmerman go free, not Stand Your Ground. To quote Peaden, "When he said, 'I'm following him,' he lost his defense."
Evidence like a dead body
Dreams-Visions
Member
but we already knew that, didn't we? He'll still ask for it during pre-trial. The prosecutor will explain why he shouldn't get it and the judge will rule on the matter.
they can suck my dick.
Bay Maximus
Banned
I'm sorry but heads need to roll for this. At the very least Bill Lee needs to relinquish his position. Everybody in that department that knew about this is disgusting and a blight on any police anywhere that actually does their job correctly and with integrity.
Big Baybee
Member
By new evidence they mean evidence that was available to them since day fucking 1? I really want to know why they were protecting this guy so vigorously.
gutter_trash
Banned
the police overlooking evidence is like a surgeon overlooking if he brought the right organ to transplant
echoshifting
Banned
Angelus Errare
Banned
Seeing that this Zimmerman guy is still free seriously makes me question shit man. I don't understand how one can claim self defense when YOU followed a child while you had your gun when the police told you not too. Then when you attacked the kid and he fought back you shot him despite the fact he posed no physical threat to you?
I honestly hope the family sues the damn police department to hell and back, because this is complete bullshit.
I honestly hope the family sues the damn police department to hell and back, because this is complete bullshit.
a bit late to do that now.
MightyHealthy
Banned
The official Sanford government page now contains a (softballed) FAQ section containing (cleaned up) answers from Bill Lee.
A large part of the reason that they did not arrest George Zimmerman that night was because of the (lack of) information they had at the time, and that the shooter outright lied to the police:
Still, this doesn't excuse the month-long restraint in refusing to arrest Zimmerman in the face of new evidence raising a reasonable doubt...
A large part of the reason that they did not arrest George Zimmerman that night was because of the (lack of) information they had at the time, and that the shooter outright lied to the police:
What a despicable coward.
Still, this doesn't excuse the month-long restraint in refusing to arrest Zimmerman in the face of new evidence raising a reasonable doubt...
Do you have a link for this?
Reallink
Member
Yea you're absolutely right on bolded, I am. Why? Because as I just pointed, it has been the prevailing sentiment of this thread from the very beginning--even before there was any real evidence to suggest one way or the other. This case just happened to involve a supposedly white guy that killed a black guy, he wasn't charged for whatever reason (controversial law, police ineptitude, or whatever it turns out to be) so lets roll out the racism bandwagon (both on Zimmerman and the PD) and convict him on those grounds instead Anything that may have come to light after the fact has no bearing on anything I just said--all those ideas existed when the only details available were "White 28yo Community Watch Captain shoots and kills unarmed 17yo Black Kid". It wouldn't have mattered if Zimmerman had since turned out to be black, an active member of the NAACP, and had interned for Rev. Sharpton--all of those comments I just quoted would still have existed and that's the whole point.
I don't know every little detail like some of you guys as my participation has been limited, but from what I gather the racism assertions are still sketchy at best. Apparently there's some unintelligible recording where he says either punk or coon and I've seen offhanded references to some after-the-fact, hear-say, "character witnesses" that suggest he may have racially profiled black people while on watch. I wouldn't be surprised if I've missed something, so please bring it to my attention. In any event, even assuming all this were true, it still doesn't mean he chose to approach the kid because he was black (as I've mentioned, he has apparently had a history of confronting non-black people as well), and it certainly doesn't mean he chose to shoot and kill him because he was black. There is a huge gap between casually using a slur, profiling black people as possible mischief makers, and deciding to kill them in cold blood.
Seraphinianus
Banned
they talked about this for a long time on NPR yesterday. I was worried the story would die out after the first article, glad it's blown up.
Dreams-Visions
Member
same on both counts.
AstroNut325
Member
I must live under a rock as I just heard about this! Call me crazy but I'm a full supporter of Guantanamo! Not for middle-easterners... for people like the shooter in this tragedy.
Someone said that? That person is wrong.
He shot him because he was losing a fight. He was losing a fight because he chased and confronted the kid. He chased and confronted the kid because he was a "suspicious" person. All people question is how suspicious he would've been if he was not black.
Reallink
Member
Well I just quoted 10 or 15 people from the first page alone that certainly implied it. There aren't too many ways to construe a completely baseless "mother fuckin' racist!" beyond the implication that this happened because Zimmerman hated black people.
While he was racially profiling, at first he wasn't sure what race the kid was (just that he wasn't white). He seemed more concerned by the fact that he was wearing a hood and he was young, despite that it was apparently raining and non-criminals wear hoods, too. But apparently walking in the rain is suspicious activity as well. I wanna know what he was doing that made the kid run. Was he already following him before he called 911? Standing outside staring at him?
TheNatural
My Member!
Damn, over 2,600 posts. I kept up with this early on where thr guy wasn't arrested, does anyone have a summary update since then of what's gone on? Much appreciated.
60_gig_PS3
Banned
this thing is really blowing when I signed the petition it was only around 2k signatures
Dreams-Visions
Member
Audio recordings got released that appear suggest the boy was pleading for help before being shot, and a clear contradiction to Zimmerman's original story. National media picked up on it, and is now being talked about on every major station (maybe even Fox News?). State and justice department are now engaged and a Grand Jury will be convened in early April.
that's about it.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
racial profiling is a form of racism.. so yeah...
TheNatural
My Member!
So was he arrested yet?
Dreams-Visions
Member
Nope.
oh, and all of a sudden, the crooked-ass local PD is looking into "new evidence", which was really old evidence that reporters and...anyone who gives a fuck could have found.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
he was sure he was black...says it three times in the phone call.
TheNatural
My Member!
Alright thanks. I'll go check out some of the news stories on it. If this guy gets arrested and more media pick up on this, this may be one of the biggest trials in history. I'm kind of surprised it hasn't gotten mainstream earlier.
Reallink
Member
I don't recall saying it wasn't, but you know for a fact he was racially profiling how?
Dreams-Visions
Member
you might want to listen to a NPR broadcast from today. apparently it's pretty good, according to posters here.
edit: may not have been uploaded yet.
Mortrialus
Banned
Lots of appalling evidence has been released that shows the police have a clear case against Zimmerman.
Lots of evidence showing incompetence or protection on the part of the police has been released.
Police still haven't made the arrest.
The FBI and Justice Department are investigating the case and the police.
Police have said that they are reviewing "overlooked" evidence (Not confirmed)
Arrowgigantic
Member
Being followed around at night by some dude in a car glaring at you wouldn't make you run?
He was in his vehicle, already following him, when he placed the call. He only got out when the kid ran (because a man was following him), to pursue.
Blackace
if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
I do. Without a doubt. If I am an "idiot" for thinking so, so be it..
Does not excuse the police at all. You have a dead child with no weapon found on him and an adult admitting to shooting him. I don't care what story that person gives, short of immediate video evidence of self defense, he needs to be arrested right there.
If the law was being applied correctly there, then it is a danger to the society. You can not let the killer of an unarmed child go free simply because he knows what two words to say.
childplease
Banned
Doubt the family can sue the police department.
They might be able to sue Zimmerman in civil court if criminal charges are not pressed. Doubt they will get much doesn't GZ still live at home ?
When 911 operator asks him what race the kid is he says he's not sure. Later he's sure he's black. Edit: Hadn't watched since last night, he says "He looks black." Still not exactly sure, but my mistake anyway.
Yes, that's why I asked if he was already following him and being creepy.
I went to a neighborhood watch meeting once several years ago when I lived in a different neighborhood. Those people were crazy. They were upset because they saw a homeless guy walking around their houses taking cans from the recycling bins. Oh, and some people a block over parked cars on their lawns! The horror!
HurricaneJesus
Member
This is really sad. Kid is walking some with some candy to share with his sibling, gets harassed by racist asshole, gets in a scuffle with racist asshole, gets shot dead by racist piece of shit. I can't image how this kid felt when he was blown away for walking down the street toward his families home.
Really just unbelievable. Terribly sad.
Really just unbelievable. Terribly sad.
BronsonLee
Member
I'll go out on a limb here and say they can.
You are incredibly ignorant to believe he wasn't
Than again, with you equating Trayvon as a gangbanger....I'm not at all surprised.
They can, they just have to have the right case for it and a great lawyer.
real talk, the only stuff about the Neighborhood Watch that i've known has always been the absurdly cartoonish depictions of it on tv, and the more i hear about the NW from other people, the more those depictions don't seem so absurdly cartoonish
soundahfekz
Member
I'm loving the Zimmerman defense force of "reasonable" doubt in here. It's sad. It really is.
TheNatural
My Member!
Well after reading some of the latest developments, my thoughts are this isn't a black or white thing (no pun intended) with racial profiling. Was the kid profiled and thought suspicious by the way he looked, including being black? Probably. But it sounds to me like this guy would have started the same shit with a white kid with tattoos and his pants sagging or something just as much. And if a black person was actually a man, in a suit, carrying a Bible door to door or something I doubt he would have done anything.
Not that any of that matters, because he did profile the kid for some reason, but I hate hearing all the semantics of the racial profiling or not. For whatever reason, he was wrongly profiling an innocent person as a threat, and that's all that matter.
I'm very much a 'stand your ground' law kind of guy. My philosophy in life is, if you attack someone and you get shot and killed, be it in your home, vehicle, or out on the street - that's your own fault. The problem is, this guy didn't stand his ground. He saw someone he thought was suspicious and made himself suspicious to him by stalking him, as the person the kid was on the phone with recalled. Not only that, but he confronted the kid for no reason.
Reason would suggest, you confront someone after stalking them and apparently angrily demand what they're doing, you're instigating a fight. Happens all the time in bars. Therefore, if you get attacked in a fight, you have no right to pull a deadly weapon out and end their life.
That's my philosophy. There's three stages of a confrontation in my mind. Verbal, physical, and deadly weapon. You instigate the verbal for no reason, it should be reasonably expected for the confrontation to escalate to physical - where you should defend yourself on that plane because you started the mess in the first place. You pull out a deadly weapon and want to claim victim for the mess you started - your ass should get the chair.
That's my opinion.
Not that any of that matters, because he did profile the kid for some reason, but I hate hearing all the semantics of the racial profiling or not. For whatever reason, he was wrongly profiling an innocent person as a threat, and that's all that matter.
I'm very much a 'stand your ground' law kind of guy. My philosophy in life is, if you attack someone and you get shot and killed, be it in your home, vehicle, or out on the street - that's your own fault. The problem is, this guy didn't stand his ground. He saw someone he thought was suspicious and made himself suspicious to him by stalking him, as the person the kid was on the phone with recalled. Not only that, but he confronted the kid for no reason.
Reason would suggest, you confront someone after stalking them and apparently angrily demand what they're doing, you're instigating a fight. Happens all the time in bars. Therefore, if you get attacked in a fight, you have no right to pull a deadly weapon out and end their life.
That's my philosophy. There's three stages of a confrontation in my mind. Verbal, physical, and deadly weapon. You instigate the verbal for no reason, it should be reasonably expected for the confrontation to escalate to physical - where you should defend yourself on that plane because you started the mess in the first place. You pull out a deadly weapon and want to claim victim for the mess you started - your ass should get the chair.
That's my opinion.
Some of us can put two and two together.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked