Support NeoGAF

[Redford]

That's why you need to watch their conference expecting nothing. NOTHING.

Don't expect Miyamoto, Iwata, Reggie, or even video game announcements. If something happens, cool, something happened.

That way you're not disappointed.

I'm a huge Nintendo fan. I'd consider myself way too attached to the company. But when it comes to their hardware or software, I let the game/systems show me what they got, then base my opinion off my first impression.

Hehe, I'd say that's not humanly possible for some people here (including myself).

 

[Disorientator]

Nothing groundbreaking but cool to find WiiU references left and right.

"SINGULUS TECHNOLOGIES is a global manufacturer of CD/DVD/BluRay replication systems"

This from a presentation dated Mar27 2012:

 

[The_Endgamer]

Personaly my idea of what Nintendo should do with acheivement type things is pretty simple.

Have a list of about 10 significant acheivements to hit in a game. Actual challenging stuff, like beating a game, hitting on the extras in it, doing something special in a level, etc. Nothing ridiculously hard, but enough to keep you honest past "You have Unlocked: Turning this game on Acheivement!"

Then when you hit them all for that game, you unlock something in another major game. Like say, you hit all the things in Super Mario Wii U so now when you play Smash Bros 4, you unlocked a new character in the game. Or maybe in Mario Kart or Animal Crossing or .. whatever. I think Smash Bros fits best though.

At least with Nintendo's own games they could tie them in somehow and make them worthwhile in another game that you play.

Best idea so far but I'd go a little further with it.
A weekly refreshed achievement for each game owned, and whereby unlocking an achievement gives you play coins. These play coins (like on 3DS) can be used as currency but only for items on the NiN(Nintendo Network). By buying things on NiN you can upgrade your Mii character with promotional gear like shirts, skins, hats and all that other stuff, much like Xbox avatars. Each game you purchase can give you access to buying those items and therefore drives sales for games as well.

In a perfect world...

 

[AzaK]

Hehe, I'd say that's not humanly possible for some people here (including myself).

Absolutely impossible.

I want the stars from Nintendo. Anything less and I'm never gaming again. As you can see I've set myself up for a very very happy E3.

 

[AzaK]

Personaly my idea of what Nintendo should do with acheivement type things is pretty simple.

Have a list of about 10 significant acheivements to hit in a game. Actual challenging stuff, like beating a game, hitting on the extras in it, doing something special in a level, etc. Nothing ridiculously hard, but enough to keep you honest past "You have Unlocked: Turning this game on Acheivement!"

Then when you hit them all for that game, you unlock something in another major game. Like say, you hit all the things in Super Mario Wii U so now when you play Smash Bros 4, you unlocked a new character in the game. Or maybe in Mario Kart or Animal Crossing or .. whatever. I think Smash Bros fits best though.

At least with Nintendo's own games they could tie them in somehow and make them worthwhile in another game that you play.

Good idea. With achievements I don't just want a system where an achievement is a tick in a box. I would prefer if they tie to items for my Mii or coins for the Nintendo Club or something like that.

Basically I think the accomplishments on the 3DS are a "me too" affair from Nintendo and not up to par with their creativity. However the rewards from street pass quest are neat little things.

 

[cyberheater]

Nothing groundbreaking but cool to find WiiU references left and right.

"SINGULUS TECHNOLOGIES is a global manufacturer of CD/DVD/BluRay replication systems"

This from a presentation dated Mar27 2012:

But WiiU won't have a bluray drive??

 

[Sagitario]

It will have a BR drive, it won't play BR movies.
Just like the Wii had a DVD drive.

 

[The_Endgamer]

Nothing groundbreaking...

This from a presentation dated Mar27 2012:

Wii U displaying @ 8k resolution confirmed.

 

[cyberheater]

It will have a BR drive, it won't play BR movies.
Just like the Wii had a DVD drive.

Shake my head. Typical Nintendo. The hardware is more then good enough for BD playback.

 

[D_prOdigy]

Shake my head. Typical Nintendo. The hardware is more then good enough for BD playback.

Do you understand the licensing costs in including that feature?

 

[kami_sama]

But WiiU won't have a bluray drive??

It won't, but the fabrication process should be the same as the one used for bluray because Wii U discs are bluray disc with some changes in how the data is structured.

The same happened with the Gamecube. To avoid paying royalties, nintendo made a minidisc that had the data reversed. Ir a normal dvd started in the center to start going to the exterior, Gamecube's disc was the other way around. But the process of making the discs was the same.

 

[cyberheater]

Do you understand the licensing costs in including that feature?

Nope. And as a consumer, nor do I care. You can get BD players as cheap as chips these days.

 

[cyberheater]

It won't, but the fabrication process should be the same as the one used for bluray because Wii U discs are bluray disc with some changes in how the data is structured.

The same happened with the Gamecube. To avoid paying royalties, nintendo made a minidisc that had the data reversed. Ir a normal dvd started in the center to start going to the exterior, Gamecube's disc was the other way around. But the process of making the discs was the same.

I thought that would be the case. Same tech but custom use.

 

[Caramello]

Shake my head. Typical Nintendo. The hardware is more then good enough for BD playback.

Say it'd cost Nintendo $10 extra per console if the system could play Blu Ray movies. If they sell 100 million systems, that's $1 billion lost.

I don't know how much licencing is exactly but it is around that $10 figure.

 

[wsippel]

Nope. And as a consumer, nor do I care. You can get BD players as cheap as chips these days.

Then what's the point wearing down the drive of a far more expensive system instead?

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Say it'd cost Nintendo $10 extra per console if the system could play Blu Ray movies. If they sell 100 million systems, that's $1 billion lost.

I don't know how much licencing is exactly but it is around that $10 figure.

Yes but you can use this logic to justify any cost reduction measure. Blu-ray functionality is a feature that people like having, and the cost is not so extreme as to be prohibitive. They likely won't include it, but increasing profit margins is something that board-room execs should be worrying about, not the consumers. That they have a reason for doing something doesn't mean it's good for us.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Say it'd cost Nintendo $10 extra per console if the system could play Blu Ray movies. If they sell 100 million systems, that's $1 billion lost.

I don't know how much licencing is exactly but it is around that $10 figure.

would that not increase sales of WiiUs though making it more useful

I mean Nintendo has been shopping it around to cable companies to use as set-top boxes away

and how does a company that makes these players make a profit? Can't Nintendo find a way to make a profit?

 

[The_Endgamer]

would that not increase sales of WiiUs though making it more useful

I mean Nintendo has been shopping it around to cable companies to use as set-top boxes away

and how does a company that makes these players make a profit? Can't Nintendo find a way to make a profit?

Being a tad rationalist, it'd also drive up the Wii-U's usage, this would increase heat generated and probably make for a higher failure rate.

Something that can be alleviated by not simply including a Blu-Ray player, a market Nintendo has no real stake in.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Being a tad rationalist, it'd also drive up the Wii-U's usage, this would increase heat generated and probably make for a higher failure rate.

Man, they could reduce the failure rate even more if they deliberately didn't bring out any good games on it. I mean, people would use it less, so they'd get less returns and thus save more money!

 

[cyberheater]

Yes but you can use this logic to justify any cost reduction measure. Blu-ray functionality is a feature that people like having, and the cost is not so extreme as to be prohibitive. They likely won't include it, but increasing profit margins is something that board-room execs should be worrying about, not the consumers. That they have a reason for doing something doesn't mean it's good for us.

Exactly. From a consumer point of view. It gives me an additional reason and justificatIon to purchase the unit. It's stupid not to include it if the hardware is capable.

 

[The_Endgamer]

Man, they could reduce the failure rate even more if they deliberately didn't bring out any good games on it. I mean, people would use it less, so they'd get less returns and thus save more money!

I think your onto something there!

 

[ASIS]

Say it'd cost Nintendo $10 extra per console if the system could play Blu Ray movies. If they sell 100 million systems, that's $1 billion lost.

I don't know how much licencing is exactly but it is around that $10 figure.

This is a completely inaccurate analysis of the situation. Assuming that your figures are correct, the one billion is not a loss but an expense. The term loss is implying that Nintendo is losing money from each console sold when in reality, including BD would just decrease profit, not diminish it (This is also assuming that the WiiU will be priced accordingly).

The reason why this could be a good move for Nintendo is taking away an advantage the competition has had for years, and therefore increase potential sales and gaining more market share.

They will need to collect data and conduct studies about their target market and its interest in such technology, and that should be the basis of their decision. But the entire premise of "X cost money, it will decrease profit, therefore we should not implement it" is not how things work.

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

Wouldn't the ability to play Blu Rays be enough to entice many people to pay an extra $10, if that were the licensing fee? Or alternatively, won't the Wii U look less enticing if it launches at a price similar to PS3 but can't be used to play BD movies? To come close to matching the multimedia features of PS3 and 360 it at least needs a movie streaming service. And if Nintendo decides to position the Wii U as solely a games playing device, it had better be priced accordingly.

 

[cyberheater]

Man, they could reduce the failure rate even more if they deliberately didn't bring out any good games on it. I mean, people would use it less, so they'd get less returns and thus save more money!

Lol. Quality stuff.

 

[Terrell]

CATCH-UP TIME!

I hate the temptation that DLC provides to software makers, and to see gamers defending these actions is downright embarrassing. I don't even trust Nintendo with DLC, even if they promise with sugar on top that they'll be good.

Seriously, dude, GO LOOK AT FIRE EMBLEM. I posted about it in this thread for a reason. Go look at how FUCKING AWESOME the DLC solution is for that game. I'll wait....

There's another way to look at things right now.

Kid Icarus didn't even sell that great. It didn't bomb or anything, but it still didn't sell that great. So when games like Kid Icarus or Metroid Other M aren't selling tons of copies by Nintendo, I don't know if Nintendo is able to do much to help third party sales with advertising when some of their own games aren't selling like crazy.

Nintendo fans are just very selective on what they buy.

It's essentially a BRAND-NEW FRANCHISE, guys! We remember it because we remember EVERYTHING.

Considering it as a new franchise, it has the option for a "slow burn", with consistent sales that will really get things going.

I also think that, since only the hardcore gamers remember Kid Icarus, naming the NEW one Kid Icarus was just a damned waste. They could have named it basically ANYTHING, including its actual bloody title. But that's neither here nor there at this point.

The point is.... new franchise. Treat it like one and don't have Mario/Zelda expectations for it right out of the damned gate.

and how does a company that makes these players make a profit? Can't Nintendo find a way to make a profit?

Simple. It costs electronics manufacturers $20-50 to make a player, then they add a 50-100% profit margin. DUH.

Wouldn't the ability to play Blu Rays be enough to entice many people to pay an extra $10, if that were the licensing fee? Or alternatively, won't the Wii U look less enticing if it launches at a price similar to PS3 but can't be used to play BD movies? To come close to matching the multimedia features of PS3 and 360 it at least needs a movie streaming service. And if Nintendo decides to position the Wii U as solely a games playing device, it had better be priced accordingly.

It's got Netflix. That's the extent of what people care about multimedia-wise nowadays. BluRay is a lost cause now. The only thing that Nintendo could do to make it more attractive than the others multimedia-wise is if they allowed iTunes content to sync to it. And as much as I would love to watch the internet DIE the day that happened, it won't.

 

[joshwaan]

not that there's any chance of it happening whatsoever, but how would you guys react if come E3 it's revealed that Wii U is roughly 6-8x the capabilities of this gen and more or less a standard generational leap for $350?

I would say GAF wil have a meltdown, people still saying shit like Xbox games still look on par lol

But seriously I'd be very proud of Nintendo for going all out and giving dev's what they need for the next 5 years

On topic of game resolutions

8K lol that's a crazy high resolution right there. at 1080P I can hardly see any jaggies imagine 4 or 8K lol no need for AA.

I'd be happy if we get 1080P + AA this gen in pretty much every game. I'd say 4K and 8k Gen after this one coming up.

 

[cyberheater]

I might be wrong but didn't the JPN Wii have DVD playback?

 

[cyberheater]

I'd be happy if we get 1080P + AA this gen in pretty much every game. I'd say 4K and 8k Gen after this one coming up.

It's not going to happen.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I might be wrong but didn't the JPN Wii have DVD playback?

I'm pretty sure it didn't.

 

[Terrell]

I might be wrong but didn't the JPN Wii have DVD playback?

You would be wrong. You're thinking of GameCube, and that was a whole separate device from Matsushita, the ugly-as-sin Panasonic Q.

 

[cyberheater]

You would be wrong. You're thinking of GameCube, and that was a whole separate device from Matsushita, the ugly-as-sin Panasonic Q.

Maybe that was it.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

oh well there is always homebrew :3

 

[ASIS]

Wouldn't the ability to play Blu Rays be enough to entice many people to pay an extra $10, if that were the licensing fee? Or alternatively, won't the Wii U look less enticing if it launches at a price similar to PS3 but can't be used to play BD movies? To come close to matching the multimedia features of PS3 and 360 it at least needs a movie streaming service. And if Nintendo decides to position the Wii U as solely a games playing device, it had better be priced accordingly.

Again, it depends on the market segment they are targeting as well as the status of BD overall. Do you honestly believe the lack of DVD playback hurt the Wii? No, because 1) The DVD market has already been established and 2) The Wii's audience didn't put technological efforts as the top priority.

In other words, when you said the WiiU would look less enticing for some people, how many of those people are interested in the WiiU in the first place and do you think their decision to purchase a unit stands on whether or not the machine can play BD movies? If the answer is yes, then how much percentage does this group make of the overall target market? Not that many I presume.

 

[joshwaan]

It's not going to happen.

Hmm.. yeah proberly right we will get games with 960P or something along those lines hehe

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

It's got Netflix. That's the extent of what people care about multimedia-wise nowadays. BluRay is a lost cause now. The only thing that Nintendo could do to make it more attractive than the others multimedia-wise is if they allowed iTunes content to sync to it. And as much as I would love to watch the internet DIE the day that happened, it won't.

Yeah it would be stupid of Nintendo not to extend their agreement with Netflix, and get HD content on there too (though last I checked, there was no equivalent here in Europe; the Wii lags behind MS and Sony's consoles for streaming content here). I think Nintendo really needs this sort of service and would benefit from Blu Ray at launch in the major regions, if it wants to price the Wii U at a level comparable to existing consoles that have those features.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

You would be wrong. You're thinking of GameCube, and that was a whole separate device from Matsushita, the ugly-as-sin Panasonic Q.

LIES! Q was shiny and sexy

 

[ASIS]

LIES! Q was shiny and sexy

It looked like an outdated piece of crap trying to look like its edgy and high tech.

The best Gamecube is the platinum one.

 

[z0m3le]

Exactly. From a consumer point of view. It gives me an additional reason and justificatIon to purchase the unit. It's stupid not to include it if the hardware is capable.

It isn't. They will use a blue laser, but it will be just as different as HD-DVD was with Bluray, sure there was 1 or two players that were designed to handle both, but Nintendo's discs will likely be completely different than bluray discs, even if the specs are similar.

Sure they could make it compatible by adding bluray decode and licencing bluray, but because laser failure rate will rise and because everyone now and days uses digital services like netflix/hulu there is so little reason to even add bluray support.

And to whoever said that it wouldn't be a loss, the statement was made in the context that it would be less profitable, so yes the term loss makes perfect sense.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

It looked like an outdated piece of crap trying to look like its edgy and high tech.

The best Gamecube is the platinum one.

LIES AGAIN!

the best gamecube is SPICE ORANGE JPN

 

[joshwaan]

It looked like an outdated piece of crap trying to look like its edgy and high tech.

The best Gamecube is the platinum one.

This and Purple one are best IMO

 

[jump_button]

Big N dont care about moves unless it best for games I don't think they go with Blue ray if i recall they are slower but you can put more on them right?

 

[Caramello]

Yes but you can use this logic to justify any cost reduction measure. Blu-ray functionality is a feature that people like having, and the cost is not so extreme as to be prohibitive. They likely won't include it, but increasing profit margins is something that board-room execs should be worrying about, not the consumers. That they have a reason for doing something doesn't mean it's good for us.

It's not as clear cut as you make it out to be.. Any fiscally responsible company would only add the Blu Ray playback to there non-blu ray-player device if there was enough of a benefit to them in relation to the extra costs incurred.

As an example, if Nintendo were projecting an extra $1 billion in costs over the lifetime of the system to support Blu Ray movie playback then they'd want a similar level of benefit whether it was higher levels of system sales, extra money spent on the multimedia aspects or other benefits to balance that cost.

Nobody in their right mind throws on an extra $10 of value 'just because' and Nintendo won't either unless there is sufficient benefit to be had.

Does anybody seriously think that the Wii would have sold any more systems than it has today if it supported DVD? It was sold out for two years and lost momentum thereafter, it certainly wouldn't have been 'saved' after that because of its movie playback capabilities especially when DVD players are so cheap now. Blu Ray will be in a similar position next generation to what DVD was last generation. The benefits to be had are not as vast as they might have been this generation.

I understand the consumer side of things, but there Wii U, its features, its content and its price are all a carefully balanced value proposition and Nintendo obviously think that $10 per unit or $1 billion over the next 7 years is better spent on other aspects of that proposition.

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

Again, it depends on the market segment they are targeting as well as the status of BD overall. Do you honestly believe the lack of DVD playback hurt the Wii? No, because 1) The DVD market has already been established and 2) The Wii's audience didn't put technological efforts as the top priority.

In other words, when you said the WiiU would look less enticing for some people, how many of those people are interested in the WiiU in the first place and do you think their decision to purchase a unit stands on whether or not the machine can play BD movies? If the answer is yes, then how much percentage does this group make of the overall target market? Not that many I presume.

No I do not "honestly believe the lack of DVD playback hurt the Wii" and never suggested otherwise! Your point 1) means that nearly everyone had a DVD player when the Wii launched, yet Blu Ray hasn't reached anywhere near the level DVD had by that stage. It is still a desirable feature in a games console, is all that I am saying - and it is relatively cheap to implement, considering the technology is already in the box. It's not going to make the difference between 5 or 50 million sales, but I expect it would have an effect. We're both speculating; someone needs to do a survey asking potential customers what would influence their decision in buying a new console in the next year.

I agree with point 2, but remember that the competition at the time was much more expensive, so there was a trade-off. In a year or two, the Wii U will be competing with more expensive, technologically advanced consoles, but for the first year, it is likely to be priced similarly to existing consoles, with a modest technological improvement, but may lack the multimedia features of those existing consoles. I just think that if Nintendo is to hit the ground running, it not only needs great launch games, but great launch multimedia features (unless it will be impressively competitive price-wise as a result of foregoing those features).

 

[ASIS]

It isn't. They will use a blue laser, but it will be just as different as HD-DVD was with Bluray, sure there was 1 or two players that were designed to handle both, but Nintendo's discs will likely be completely different than bluray discs, even if the specs are similar.

Sure they could make it compatible by adding bluray decode and licencing bluray, but because laser failure rate will rise and because everyone now and days uses digital services like netflix/hulu there is so little reason to even add bluray support.

And to whoever said that it wouldn't be a loss, the statement was made in the context that it would be less profitable, so yes the term loss makes perfect sense.

I was the one who said that, and it doesn't make sense given the context.

Let me give you a hypothetical example. Nintendo gains $35 profit from each WiiU sold, and their projected sales are 25 million in the next 2 years. Therefore Nintendo would have made 875 million USD just from hardware sales.

If they would include BD, then Nintendo would only gain $25 profit from each WiiU sold (since we are assuming it costs $10), but their projected sales increase to 38 million due to a competitive advantage not present before. Their income will rise to 950 million.

Where on earth did Nintendo lose money in this situation?


It is far more complex than that, but this is just a basis why expense =/= loss.

 

[Caramello]

I was the one who said that, and it doesn't make sense given the context.

Let me give you a hypothetical example. Nintendo gains $35 profit from each WiiU sold, and their projected sales are 25 million in the next 2 years. Therefore Nintendo would have made 875 million USD just from hardware sales.

If they would include BD, then Nintendo would only gain $25 profit from each WiiU sold (since we are assuming it costs $10), but their projected sales increase to 38 million due to a competitive advantage not present before. Their income will rise to 950 million.

Where on earth did Nintendo lose money in this situation?


It is far more complex than that, but this is just a basis why expense =/= loss.

To be clear, I didn't say "loss", I said "lost" and I'm an accounting/finance major so I don't need to be told this, I'm just trying to get my point across.

 

[ASIS]

No I do not "honestly believe the lack of DVD playback hurt the Wii" and never suggested otherwise! Your point 1) means that nearly everyone had a DVD player when the Wii launched, yet Blu Ray hasn't reached anywhere near the level DVD had by that stage. It is still a desirable feature in a games console, is all that I am saying - and it is relatively cheap to implement, considering the technology is already in the box. It's not going to make the difference between 5 or 50 million sales, but I expect it would have an effect. We're both speculating; someone needs to do a survey asking potential customers what would influence their decision in buying a new console in the next year.

I agree with point 2, but remember that the competition at the time was much more expensive, so there was a trade-off. In a year or two, the Wii U will be competing with more expensive, technologically advanced consoles, but for the first year, it is likely to be priced similarly to existing consoles, with a modest technological improvement, but may lack the multimedia features of those existing consoles. I just think that if Nintendo is to hit the ground running, it not only needs great launch games, but great launch multimedia features (unless it will be impressively competitive price-wise as a result of foregoing those features).

I was more trying to stress on the fact that including BD is more about making the Wii U not seem "less enticing" than the competition than giving it an actual advantage.

I wasn't trying to have an argument with you sorry

 

[Cheesecakebobby]

I was more trying to stress on the fact that including BD is more about making the Wii U not seem "less enticing" than the competition than giving it an actual advantage.

I wasn't trying to have an argument with you sorry

Hehe, I mostly agree with you, I just think there is more than one way to interpret the facts. At the end of the day I'll buy a Wii U regardless of whether it has Blu Ray anyway

 

[manzo]

It won't, but the fabrication process should be the same as the one used for bluray because Wii U discs are bluray disc with some changes in how the data is structured.

The same happened with the Gamecube. To avoid paying royalties, nintendo made a minidisc that had the data reversed. Ir a normal dvd started in the center to start going to the exterior, Gamecube's disc was the other way around. But the process of making the discs was the same.

Actually no. The GC and Wii discs are mastered like normal DVDs, but the disc content is encrypted and a Burst Cutting Area is written on the inner rim (holding the decryption tables). I can imagine that the Wii-U BD discs are identical with a BCA area written on 'em.

 

[z0m3le]

I was the one who said that, and it doesn't make sense given the context.

Let me give you a hypothetical example. Nintendo gains $35 profit from each WiiU sold, and their projected sales are 25 million in the next 2 years. Therefore Nintendo would have made 875 million USD just from hardware sales.

If they would include BD, then Nintendo would only gain $25 profit from each WiiU sold (since we are assuming it costs $10), but their projected sales increase to 38 million due to a competitive advantage not present before. Their income will rise to 950 million.

Where on earth did Nintendo lose money in this situation?


It is far more complex than that, but this is just a basis why expense =/= loss.

Wait... so you think that bluray support will increase Nintendo's sales by 50%? have you been keeping up with the PS3? it can't even keep up with the 360, that is technically less powerful, and doesn't have that said feature... It's only saving grace against the 360 is that it sells in Japan... Your figures are quite unrealistic... change it from 25m to 26m in 2 years thanks to bluray and you'll be much closer to the actual figures.

NOW if Nintendo can recoup the lost revenue from supporting bluray in that 1m. It is a sound business decision, but if they had to increase the price to do it, than they probably could have sold even more at a cheaper price without the bluray and made more money.

Nintendo doesn't sell bluray movies, Sony does, so there is good reason your PS3 could play bluray discs.

 

[NinjaTehFish]

Anyone up for a challenge? Reggify this!

i MIGHT BE A BIT STONED.