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The reason why i think that Pikmin 3 can be a launch title is because i guess that they changed platform very early on.
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Wii U Speculation thread IV: Photoshop rumors and image memes
- Thread starter Sadist
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AceBandage
Banned
Metroid is no more major than Pikmin, though.
And it's not foolish.
By saying that they need any of their huge, established, franchises to sell the system means you have no faith in them to create new franchises to sell systems.
Something they did on the Wii.
What's really chilling is how often he ticks all the stupid tropes that go along with talking about Nintendo today. Notice how he referred to Pikmin like it's a minigame and said that there was a bunch of reading (HORRORS!) and it wasn't cinematic (WTF?) Sounds like somebody was trying to invent the "Casual" pejorative before anybody even really cared about it!
I'll give a few reasons why people should have more faith in Killer Freaks.
1) Killer Freaks has had WAYYYYY more time to be polished both graphically and gameplay wise than Red Steel did at Wii's launch.
2) Yes, the demo looked like shit when we first saw it. But that was a beta version of a 360 game. The fact that it was that far along in beta is a good sign. Imagine how much better it is improved 12 months later.
3) Because the concept isn't another dudebro Gears of War/Call of Duty game, and it's something that is actually unique and different, I am totally rooting for this game to be good.
I get that people have a bad taste in their mouth from how Ubisoft treated Wii's launch. But Ubisoft got dev kits way earlier this time to make a quality product than they did with Wii.
The concept art work was oozing with atmosphere, and if they can create graphics that match the concept art, then I'm all for it.
AceBandage
Banned
OK, so you guys see this thread?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=470341
People are discussing an Apple/Nintendo merger with the talks of them entering the home console space again.
I'm gonna go post about it in the thread, but I can't get over how ridiculous it is. Not because it can NEVER happen (after all, remember the industry we're talking about, you can NEVER say NEVER), bbut because people are talking about it like it would be some sort of hostile takeover where Nintendo has NO input on hardware design. If Apple were to EVER consider merging Nintendo with them, it would be because they see a value in EVERYTHING they do as a business, not just for the software portion.
Still, we're more likely to see any partnership with the 2 of them being something simple like syncing digital content with iTunes (which would be super-cool).
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=470341
People are discussing an Apple/Nintendo merger with the talks of them entering the home console space again.
I'm gonna go post about it in the thread, but I can't get over how ridiculous it is. Not because it can NEVER happen (after all, remember the industry we're talking about, you can NEVER say NEVER), bbut because people are talking about it like it would be some sort of hostile takeover where Nintendo has NO input on hardware design. If Apple were to EVER consider merging Nintendo with them, it would be because they see a value in EVERYTHING they do as a business, not just for the software portion.
Still, we're more likely to see any partnership with the 2 of them being something simple like syncing digital content with iTunes (which would be super-cool).
Do you really think that Killer Freaks is being handled by a good, experienced team with a high budget?
It's not going to happen, and if it did it would be the worst thing ever to happen and I'd never play a video game again.
Meh. It looks like Mutant Rabbids, and I don't see that changing.
I don't know what kind of changes have been made in v4 dev kits (which include the reported boost of power, but not as big as thought in the thread) and v5, because my sources, even if they are in contact with these development boxes and their visual results on screens, are from the studio crowd (the main part, i would say 90% of the employees) that clearly aren't aware themselves of every specificities of the guts of the Wii U.
But there have been changes, it's 100% sure, until march included, for the v5 dev kits, which see their overall performances increasing a bit. Could these improvements come from additional features, or just tweaking of frequencies, etc, i ignore it.
However, and big grain of salt for that, let's say the Wii U GPU lacked an efficient & modern tesselator, and it was added very recently. Such surely big modification would have been known by my sources i guess, and perhaps i would have heard it. So i presume the Wii U GPU had already the features that Nintendo wanted for it in february/march. It doesn't exclude the possibility that other things will be added in april in a later revision though.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I've been one of the few on the board predicting that after the Wii U this actually happens, but I see a joint venture where both have input.
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
F-Zero a bigger franchise than Pikmin? I don't think so.
My expectation, well, really hope is that they make another Mario off shoot ala Luigi's Mansion. I don't need a huge game for launch, just a whimsical, high production Nintendo franchise that showcases the hardware and makes everyone go "Wow! The next generation is going to be awesome!"
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
What is wrong with saying that they need a major franchise to sell systems?
Has Nintendo actually created a new, system-selling franchise in a while?
AceBandage
Banned
As similar as people think Nintendo and Apple are in philosophies, they are simply not compatible on any level.
They run things very differently.
Apple is all about the free access to every part of their system while Nintendo is very controlling.
Wii___?
Tomadochi?
BrainAge?
nordique
Member
Thanks, and yes it does show how if one one platform we can have what may seem to be a "half gen" or "full gen" type of leap, there is much that could be improved for even the Wii U.
We know it will be Nintendo and select third party games that will make the system sing, so I think come E3 we will all be content with that portion of the system.
The bigger question are the games, but I have faith Nintendo knows what its doing.
Another Luigi's Mansion would fit that role perfectly. Hmm..
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
I've always said pixel shaders before 2.0 were all color/texture combiners on steroids. The difference between those and Flipper's are in the flavor of steroids. It's not until SM 2.0 / ARB_program (GL's equivalent) that pixel shaders became practically on-par with the traditionally more programmable/complex vertex shader units, and it was only much later with the unification of shader units and the advent of GPGPU that shader units became really something more akin to general processing units. But hey, marketing will always 'deliver' faster than engineering. But to get back to your point - the only 'totally programmable' fabric of silicon nowadays is called an FPGA, and those are mainly used for simulation of pre-production silicon.
Fun trivia: one of the early high-level shading languages (some academic one, can't recall its name now) was compiling down to multi-pass GL 1.x.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I think an F-Zero would be a much better franchise to show off an HD Nintendo system.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
That's coming out for 3DS this year, too, just like the 2D Mario game that people say is going to prevent Nintendo from putting out another 2D Mario.
Metroid Prime sales are becoming diminishing returns. It would make sense for Nintendo to push their resources into creating an original captivating first person-shooter without rules and without fanlore capable of attracting fans of the genre over to the console. Juding from the hires into Retro Studios, this scenario seems quite palpable. Listen to any investors meeting and you can tell Satoru Iwata knows Nintendo has a huge deficiency in this large demographic outside of Japan playing Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto.
Metroid Prime 4 is not going to change anything outside of the same coterie on GAF professing their love for it. It is time to create something new, instead of forcing sequels to games that are not that commercially viable to begin with.
Metroid Prime 4 is not going to change anything outside of the same coterie on GAF professing their love for it. It is time to create something new, instead of forcing sequels to games that are not that commercially viable to begin with.
I want a FZero more than anyone, but Pikmin would show off the graphics better.
You're talking about a game that involves creatures walking through grass, mud, water, rain, dirt, rocks, leaves, sticks, etc. There's way too much potential to use amazing textures and lighting effects to impress people with Wii U's graphical abilities.
Even the Wii got started with Zelda. I think Nintendo will absolutely have a major IP at or near launch.
UltimateIke
Member
The worst:
Well, that is a N64 game.
No they're not.
AceBandage
Banned
I have my devilish theory on that actually.
I think Nintendo is dooming himself (figure of speech) with this third party thing. They'll finally realize at some point that their games are the worthy point of their consoles, and having more ports will only make their console look more than the others. 3ds showed clearly that.
And i think the real reason the ngc had trouble is the lack of a popular Mario (and probably a too late MK).
Unless Nintendo is simply incapable of making it happen, there should be a 2D Mario and U Play-esque title available at launch. More importantly, the U Play title should come with the system, not to mention a Remote +. They want mass penetration from the get-go that keeps people from doing the 'wait and see' stuff? 2D Mario is about as close to a sure thing as there is at this point.
Same here; on the games question, they have my implicit trust.
Beyond hardware capabilities, I'm most interested in seeing what art styles are chosen for games in the coming years.
AceBandage
Banned
But why?
Why do they need those at launch?
Launch is when the enthusiasts buy a system. You need to cater for games for them.
You can bring out a 2D Mario and a casual WiiU game later.
I've been saying it for awhile now, but I feel like it's MUCH more likely that apple will partner with an existing player in the video game industry in order to create a digital platform for apps and itunes. The apple TV flopped horribly compared to the popularity of other apple products. I don't see apple having much interest at all in the development of high budget, expensive video games. Their bread and butter is in apps, media distribution, and cheap games. I don't think they'll stray too far from that.
If apple ever does enter the console scene, I see them trying to merge the capabilities of the apple tv with whatever console manufacturer they partner with. I also think that while a nintendo partnership is highly unlikely, it's more likely than a Sony and MS partnership since they're both more directly rival companies. However, a nintendo partnership would probably also entail having select nintendo games show up on iOS, which nintendo would probably never do. All in all, valve is probably the most sensible partner, but I have no idea how feasible it would be for a company of valve's size to spearhead a brand new console.
You're suggesting they bring out a successor to the Wii without a 'Wii Sports'? And I'm saying that they hit the thing hard and heavy from the get-go because they have only so much time to build an audience before MS and Sony bring out their next boxes. They can't screw around with this.
What do you suggest they launch with?
I didn't realize games needed high budgets to be good. Surely time, effort, and a little bit of enthusiasm isn't more important? If anything the team showed at E3 that they had actually put some thought into using the U tablet in ways that put some twists on the stale FPS genre, so I consider that enough to actually give the game a chance instead of just grumbling "Meh. It looks like Mutant Rabbids."...
AceBandage
Banned
I'm suggesting, that if they want the system to have a healthier userbase for third parties, that they not launch with a new Wii___ casual title, yes.
There is no need for it at launch. They'll sell out if it's priced right.
What they need are three games.
1. A new adventure game. Something that can appeal to a wide audience.
2. A racing game (not Mario Kart)
3. Pikmin 3 (for Nintendo diehards)
I'm not a fan of Killer Freaks core gameplay, but the use of the tablet to create enemies for the other player(s?) was pretty slick.
You want the system to launch without a proof-of-concept title? The Wii became huge because Wii Sports was packed-in. To lack an equivalent while changing gameplay options with the controller would be insane.
You were asking about the "B-tier" part, weren't you?
Plus, low budget also means a low marketing budget.
Ideally, I think something new from Retro would do well depending on what it is.
Nintendo did what they did with the 3DS and to some extent the Wii because they didn't want 1st party to scare off 3rd party support. Early killer apps color the flavor of a platform's game library throughout its lifetime, and Nintendo's killer apps are decidedly different from what most 3rd parties, especially western 3rd parties, develop. Those guys didn't make much for the Wii partly because they believed that only titles similar to Wii Sports sold on it. Same with the Gamecube before it - believing that only Nintendo games sold on Nintendo hardware.
Nintendo can't rely on 3rd party to get them a hit in the launch window though, especially in this age when 3rd party exclusives are dying. At the same time, I think it would be interesting if Nintendo reasoned that they needed a "core" killer app to attract western gamers and developers, whether that be a shooter, WRPG, action adventure, or whatever. If Retro isn't working on a new Metroid Prime, whatever they are working on could fit into that.
Also, what do you think is the likelihood of Nintendo ever publishing something from a Western 3rd party like how Microsoft publishes Gears for Epic?
Nintendo did what they did with the 3DS and to some extent the Wii because they didn't want 1st party to scare off 3rd party support. Early killer apps color the flavor of a platform's game library throughout its lifetime, and Nintendo's killer apps are decidedly different from what most 3rd parties, especially western 3rd parties, develop. Those guys didn't make much for the Wii partly because they believed that only titles similar to Wii Sports sold on it. Same with the Gamecube before it - believing that only Nintendo games sold on Nintendo hardware.
Nintendo can't rely on 3rd party to get them a hit in the launch window though, especially in this age when 3rd party exclusives are dying. At the same time, I think it would be interesting if Nintendo reasoned that they needed a "core" killer app to attract western gamers and developers, whether that be a shooter, WRPG, action adventure, or whatever. If Retro isn't working on a new Metroid Prime, whatever they are working on could fit into that.
Also, what do you think is the likelihood of Nintendo ever publishing something from a Western 3rd party like how Microsoft publishes Gears for Epic?
I think launch is when a console gets its widest publicity, and they need to aim as widely as they can at that window in time. Get people showing-up to Best Buy every Sunday morning, get news cameras covering this activity. Thus, they should choose their launch games accordingly.
This head-start that Nintendo will have is when they need to throw the kitchen sink at getting as much momentum as possible, from both casual and core audiences. Once the competition arrives with their new machines, the whole game changes. Nintendo suddenly has to fight much more fiercely for mediaspace and mindshare.
This head-start that Nintendo will have is when they need to throw the kitchen sink at getting as much momentum as possible, from both casual and core audiences. Once the competition arrives with their new machines, the whole game changes. Nintendo suddenly has to fight much more fiercely for mediaspace and mindshare.
AceBandage
Banned
A proof of concept title doesn't have to be so casually focused though. And in fact, it SHOULDN'T be on the Wii U. It should be more core focused. They should show third parties how to use the controller for games like CoD and AC and such.
I still want someone to show me how 2x current gen vs 2000x current gen would really increase budgets linearly to the point of implosion of the industry. As far as I understand, developers working in HD now already work in resolutions higher than what the consoles can handle. If this is true I reallly don't see budgets getting higher just because of the power of the machines and the assets created for them. Sure when studios started all having to use MoCap that would have blown budgets so non-asset tech can hurt, but I think that developers have made that jump to HD now and I think the increases will not be as geometric.
Ahh OK. Sure everything is "fixed function" if you go low enough but I was under the assumption that there was programmer shaders where you coded your effects and then the fixed function stuff was more like a function call where you just set parameters. The function itself was highly optimised for its specific task.
The two (Enough shaders, and less) aren't mutually exclusive. The Wii U could have less shaders than the 360 but still have enough for the middleware.
I'm with Ace here. They don't need a Mario. IF they line all their ducks in a row with 3rd party heavy hitters that can drive sales. Especially seeing as Wii U is a "Return to the core". I think there will be a lot of core gamers longing, hoping, wishing for a sexy machine with good power and some killer titles from third parties to start this generation off. Doesn't mean Nintendo should do NO titles, but I don't think they need a Mario or a Zelda. In fact it might be a perfect time for a new IP, ala Retro's completely confirmed hardcore FPS title
That and Nintendo value games - Apple thinks they are worth less than dogshit. The only way I see Nintendo and Apple merging/working together is if Nintendo gets to control the games that come out, and that means the pricing. I would praise god/allah/buddha/bgassassin himself if App Store games had their prices hiked by at least 5 times.
If they're serious about recapturing that audience and western third-party support, then they have little choice. They'll have to match Microsoft's efforts in that arena.
No it doesn't.
Again: What game should Nintendo launch with the system then?
AceBandage
Banned
I've already said.
An adventure game.
A racing game.
Pikmin 3.
Each one will demonstrate different uses for the controller.
By my definition it does, since I consider the marketing budget to be very important.
Demonstrate it for whom exactly?
I'm not asking, I'm saying that you can't be qualifying a new IP as "A," "B," "C," or whatever before it actually releases...
And no, low budget does not mean a low marketing budget. These are two completely different focuses. You can have a game with a low development budget with a high marketing budget, and vice versa...
AceBandage
Banned
Consumer and developers.
Which is what a proof of concept game would do.
Except that now you're building up a userbase for third party games instead of trying to steal their focus with such a limiting game (like WiiSports did).
Cool beans about your definition, brosef.
However low budget does not mean low marketing budget. There are many, many counterexamples, such as Brain Age, Wii Sports, and hell Angry Birds.
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