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[spirity]

I can't wait for the amount of this:

that will be happening on May 15th and beyond. Sure, there will still be some valid complaints, but I imagine a lot more crow eating than anything else. Especially having played with Hazaro and others in the extra content that was only available for a weekend before getting patched out.

Hmm. Maybe.

But I was actually quite surprised just how divisive this beta has been, and the reactions to it. And I suspect a lot of you were surprised too.

I think D3 will be well received and sales will be stellar, that's a foregone conclusion. I don't think it's going to be quite the juggernaut we all assumed it was going to be though. Eh, but who knows. I've been wrong before.

 

[Thrakier]

Yes, there will be builds.

A build in Diablo 3 will consist of 5 things:
1) Skill choices (which 6 you will use - that is the core of your build
2) Supporting skill choices (which passives you take to make sense with that core)
3) Designing your gear around your build (what stats to prefer over what, which items you go that improve certain skills compared to a general raw damage increase instead, etc)
4) Gemming around your skill choices (around your core) - in Inferno+ characters, the gems that you use will worth SHITTON of money, so it is not child's play
5) If Blizzard somehow makes your hirelings just 1-2 percent relevant to Inferno gameplay, then you will need to gear/"talent" them up specifically for your build.

Yeah, but from my understanding it's basically possible to change a build "on the fly" except the loot obviously (or you have loot for every build as well).

 

[TheYanger]

So because the beginning of the game is basically tard-proof, I'm not supposed to call them out on it? Give me a fucking break.

But yeah, I fully expect for it to get tougher.

The beginning of D2 was just as idiot-proof. Stupid argument is the point.

Yeah, but from my understanding it's basically possible to change a build "on the fly" except the loot obviously (or you have loot for every build as well).

Your actual abilities? sure, though you have a cooldown on each ability that gets longer as you change difficulties (how long? who knows. could be minutes for instance on inferno), as well as losing MF bonuses. Plus, as you say if your gear is tailored to one build TRULY trying another one will take some effort (Farming an entire separate set of gear).

I mean, is this REALLY worse than going "Oh, I wish I had 1 less point in X and 1 more point in Y....WELP BETTER REROLL" like D2?

 

[TheYanger]

Double post sorry

 

[Aesthet1c]

Hmm. Maybe.

But I was actually quite surprised just how divisive this beta has been, and the reactions to it. And I suspect a lot of you were surprised too.

I think D3 will be well received and sales will be stellar, that's a foregone conclusion. I don't think it's going to be quite the juggernaut we all assumed it was going to be though. Eh, but who knows. I've been wrong before.

Blizzard game not a juggernaut? Everything they release spins gold for them.

 

[spirity]

Blizzard game not a juggernaut? Everything they release spins gold for them.

"I think D3 will be well received and sales will be stellar,"

and

"I don't think it's going to be quite the juggernaut we all assumed it was going to be"

and one more, just in case

"Eh, but who knows. I've been wrong before."



Come on man, it was all in the post you quoted.

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

This explanation makes me far more confident with skill changes. skill customization

 

[Sothpaw]

I mean, is this REALLY worse than going "Oh, I wish I had 1 less point in X and 1 more point in Y....WELP BETTER REROLL" like D2?

But I want to have to put every single stat point into Vit for 99% of builds to be hell viable and I want to have to start from level 1 every single time I feel like trying out out a new skill. Also, I only want two, maybe three active skills at a maximum. Oh and no runes, they are too complicated.

JK

"I think D3 will be well received and sales will be stellar,"

and

"I don't think it's going to be quite the juggernaut we all assumed it was going to be"

and one more, just in case

"Eh, but who knows. I've been wrong before."



Come on man, it was all in the post you quoted.

 

[Petrie]

This explanation makes me far more confident with skill changes. skill customization

Love the idea of not going to a FAQ for "ideal" builds.

 

[Insaniac]

I watched the class reveal videos recently, and is anyone else bothered by the fact that they showed the Demon Hunter using her Hungering Arrow skill, and then her snaring arrow ability a second after it? You can't actually do that since it would involve switching the skills false advertising, pre-order cancelled.

 

[Sothpaw]

I watched the class reveal videos recently, and is anyone else bothered by the fact that they showed the Demon Hunter using her Hungering Arrow skill, and then her snaring arrow ability a second after it? You can't actually do that since it would involve switching the skills false advertising, pre-order cancelled.

Elective Mode bro.

 

[Insaniac]

Elective Mode bro.

Oh? I thought that did something else. interesting

 

[echoshifting]

Oh? I thought that did something else. interesting

Yeah, you aren't alone in that

I loved the beta, but hiding elective mode and not clearly communicating its features has to be one of the dumbest things Blizzard has ever done. Let's hope they fix that for release.

 

[Sothpaw]

Oh? I thought that did something else. interesting

In elective mode you can use all "primary" skills if you want.

And yes, it's not extremely clear.

 

[zoukka]

I loved the beta, but hiding elective mode and not clearly communicating its features has to be one of the dumbest things Blizzard has ever done. Let's hope they fix that for release.

I smell hyperbole.

 

[echoshifting]

I smell hyperbole.

Hyperbole on gaf?? :O Ban that guy

edit: really though...I'll stick to that. I have been a Blizzard fan since Warcraft II and yeah that is one of the dumbest things they have ever done.

 

[civilstrife]

This is pretty much the reception of all new Blizzard games.

Unbelievable levels of hype, followed by initial dissapointment, followed by the slow realization that the game is just as awesome as you had hoped because Blizzard is all about the long-haul and not initial superficial wow-factor.

 

[Suairyu]

Just finished Diablo I. That was a rush, though the boss battles - including Diablo - are all easy. The challenge comes from number management rather than 1-on-1 battles. You can 1-hit-KO an enemy, but if you get surrounded by them you're fucked.

edit: really though...I'll stick to that. I have been a Blizzard fan since Warcraft II and yeah that is one of the dumbest things they have ever done.

Really? Think about it. They have a huge new casual fan base thanks to WoW. They might be very interested in this new Diablo thing they've heard so much about. They might not have a lot of experience with 100% control over skill management, so Blizzard makes the default a mode that forces you to have a balanced build.

It's not idiocy that made Blizzard make elective mode and optional thing, it's sanity. However, not making the option more visible or explaining exactly what it does is the tragedy here. Those of us who are able to properly manage our skills can entirely miss the feature.

 

[Macmanus]

Hyperbole on gaf?? :O Ban that guy

edit: really though...I'll stick to that. I have been a Blizzard fan since Warcraft II and yeah that is one of the dumbest things they have ever done.

From a beta perspective I think it's actually rather clever. It forces new users to play around with each category, whilst restricting their options. From a demo perspective it stream lines the game play.

A cursory nod to the option would have been appreciated, though.

Unbelievable levels of hype, followed by initial dissapointment, followed by the slow realization that the game is just as awesome as you had hoped because Blizzard is all about the long-haul and not initial superficial wow-factor.

This is pretty much accurate. Though I loved WC2 and D2 right out of the gate. WC2 especially blew me away. The leap from 1 to 2 in terms of art style was something else.

 

[Macmanus]

redundant

 

[Thrakier]

The beginning of D2 was just as idiot-proof. Stupid argument is the point.


Your actual abilities? sure, though you have a cooldown on each ability that gets longer as you change difficulties (how long? who knows. could be minutes for instance on inferno), as well as losing MF bonuses. Plus, as you say if your gear is tailored to one build TRULY trying another one will take some effort (Farming an entire separate set of gear).

I mean, is this REALLY worse than going "Oh, I wish I had 1 less point in X and 1 more point in Y....WELP BETTER REROLL" like D2?

But isn't that more of an annoyance. It's like "ok, we let you change builds any time but if you do it, you'll get a little punishment, which is not very bad at all, just wait a minute, but hey, it's there". Isn#t that kinda inconsequent?

 

[commish]

This is pretty much the reception of all new Blizzard games.

Unbelievable levels of hype, followed by initial dissapointment, followed by the slow realization that the game is just as awesome as you had hoped because Blizzard is all about the long-haul and not initial superficial wow-factor.

Yeah, we were all disappointed by WoW. >.>

 

[Macmanus]

But isn't that more of an annoyance. It's like "ok, we let you change builds any time but if you do it, you'll get a little punishment, which is not very bad at all, just wait a minute, but hey, it's there". Isn#t that kinda inconsequent?

I can see hot swapping abilities during boss fights and certain mob attacks to be useful. Adding additional cool downs goes a ways to negate that so you more or less have to commit to your ability choices going into battle.

Yeah, we were all disappointed by WoW. >.>

I remember constant bitching about the art style and shitty servers circa 2003. So yeah. There was plenty of backlash at WoW's launch - even if it wasn't from a direct game play perspective.

 

[Sothpaw]

Isn#t that kinda inconsequent?

No.

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

Yeah, we were all disappointed by WoW. >.>

Sarcasm? I don't think thats what he meant by wow-factor.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

But isn't that more of an annoyance. It's like "ok, we let you change builds any time but if you do it, you'll get a little punishment, which is not very bad at all, just wait a minute, but hey, it's there". Isn#t that kinda inconsequent?

It's so you can't quick-swap skills in the middle of a battle and basically have access to unlimited builds.

 

[Thrakier]

No.

Why not? If they decided against classical "builds", while include a punishment if you change them?

 

[Dreavus]

Great game. I felt like it was dragging on a tiny bit in the Skeleton King's lair, and at a certain point I just wanted to kill him and be done with it instead of running through yet another floor... but that could have been because I stayed up late finishing my run through of the beta and was pressed for time. I Didn't have time to play until late last night.

As soon as I saw the blacksmith unlock with his crafting materials and rank-ups and comparable craftable gear I could make with random bonuses... I knew that I'm going to be in trouble when this game comes out. Total life consumption.

I was getting a huge Torchlight vibe (we've come full circle!) from the cathedral dungeons, and the gameplay in general, but I think that's pretty much the genre at this point. Not a bad thing though.

 

[Sothpaw]

Why not? If they decided against classical "builds", while include a punishment if you change them?

Just takes a LITTLE thought to figure this out...or read a few posts above.

 

[echoshifting]

Really? Think about it. They have a huge new casual fan base thanks to WoW. They might be very interested in this new Diablo thing they've heard so much about. They might not have a lot of experience with 100% control over skill management, so Blizzard makes the default a mode that forces you to have a balanced build.

It's not idiocy that made Blizzard make elective mode and optional thing, it's sanity. However, not making the option more visible or explaining exactly what it does is the tragedy here. Those of us who are able to properly manage our skills can entirely miss the feature.

From a beta perspective I think it's actually rather clever. It forces new users to play around with each category, whilst restricting their options. From a demo perspective it stream lines the game play.

A cursory nod to the option would have been appreciated, though.

Yeah, these are good points, I guess. I get that. The problem is visibility. There were a ton of people, here and elsewhere, who were completely ready to write the game off largely because of the restrictive skill selection system. It's astonishing to me that this is actually fixable - the fix is right there in the game - they just don't really go out of their way to tell you about it. From a beta perspective, that can actually be kind of a problem.

I had no issue with the default setup, but I vastly prefer the alternative. It just surprises me that Blizzard, who have always been really good at helping players learn their systems, didn't do anything to give you a heads up when you hit level 2 or 3, and they really should have. It makes the whole elective system feel like a grudging accommodation.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Thrakier, I'm not trying to knock people with criticisms of the beta--plenty are valid--but it really seems like you are pushing and poking at things that are easily and evidently explained.

 

[Macmanus]

I'm hoping Elective Mode's visibility is changed on release for the general populace. I'd imagine it will be. Honestly I wouldn't be shocked if it's omission in the beta was 100% intentional.

 

[Thrakier]

Thrakier, I'm not trying to knock people with criticisms of the beta--plenty are valid--but it really seems like you are pushing and poking at things that are easily and evidently explained.

lol, no, I really just don't get it. OK, you have to set for a build before a boss or whatever rush. So there are "rush specific builds". But still that's nowhere as in D2. You just need one character of every kind and you can play every possible build.

Btw, I'm not saying that it's bad, I don't know if I like it or not.

 

[echoshifting]

I'm hoping Elective Mode's visibility is changed on release for the general populace. I'd imagine it will be. Honestly I wouldn't be shocked if it's omission in the beta was 100% intentional.

Yeah, you could be right. In fact I think you probably are. There is just so much passion surrounding this game, positive and negative. It's a sequel some of us have been waiting for for a decade, and the "always online" and RM auction house decisions were very controversial...art style, class selection...the list goes on. Everyone seems to have a complaint about this or that. I would have expected them to put their best foot forward for the core audience, and those are the gamers who really needed to check out elective.

 

[schwupp]

Elective Mode bro.

what? .... why did nobody mention that anywhere.
was it in the game options or where would you set that?

 

[Sothpaw]

what? .... why did nobody mention that anywhere.
was it in the game options or where would you set that?

You have to e-mail Tigole and then Caydiem will flag your account for elective mode. Tseric will send you a confirmation e-mail.

Spoiler

Yes it's right there in game options.

 

[99%]

Im sorry if youre on of these so called hardcore gamers that demand full control and want to distribute statpoints and shit and talk about investment and researching builds but you cant find elective mode in two days of beta maybe youre not so smart after all and blizzard holding your hand is exactly what you need.

Its right there in the menu geniuses, maybe if you spend less time bitching and more playing and trying to understand the game and test it you would have found it.

Its not exactly hidden its in the gameplay tab.

 

[Fallout-NL]

Im sorry if youre on of these so called hardcore gamers that demand full control and want to distribute statpoints and shit and talk about investment and researching builds but you cant find elective mode in two days of beta maybe youre not so smart after all and blizzard holding your hand is exactly what you need.

Its right there in the menu geniuses, maybe if you spend less time bitching and more playing and trying to understand the game and test it you would have found it.

I can't wait for the amount of this:

that will be happening on May 15th and beyond. Sure, there will still be some valid complaints, but I imagine a lot more crow eating than anything else. Especially having played with Hazaro and others in the extra content that was only available for a weekend before getting patched out.

Great, another |OT| filled with wank like this.

 

[FinKL]

Why is the skill system being designed for morons? I can't get over the default set up and elective mode. Why does that even exist?

They want to appeal to the casual audience. I think every developer is pushing this incentive more and more.

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

Im sorry if youre on of these so called hardcore gamers that demand full control and want to distribute statpoints and shit and talk about investment and researching builds but you cant find elective mode in two days of beta maybe youre not so smart after all and blizzard holding your hand is exactly what you need.

Its right there in the menu geniuses, maybe if you spend less time bitching and more playing and trying to understand the game and test it you would have found it.

Its not exactly hidden its in the gameplay tab.

Ease up, dude. Lets keep it civil.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

lol, no, I really just don't get it. OK, you have to set for a build before a boss or whatever rush. So there are "rush specific builds". But still that's nowhere as in D2. You just need one character of every kind and you can play every possible build.

Btw, I'm not saying that it's bad, I don't know if I like it or not.

Yes. That is correct. They want you to be able to easily experiment with different kinds of builds (especially pre-lvl60), but they still want to largely restrict you to six skills in the middle of a fight.

Once you have maxed out your character and gotten deep into the high difficulties, there are significant disadvantages to switching builds often (loss of huge MF buff and your gear is likely not optimal for different builds).

That is their philosophy.

 

[forrest]

Great, another |OT| filled with wank like this.

Get your fork ready Fallout!

Spoiler

/trollface

 

[99%]

Ease up, dude. Lets keep it civil.

I'm sorry but if you cant check a box in the menu or even find it you prob should not be choosing your skills freely in the first place.

Im trying to be as civil as possible but theres a point where you just have to draw a line about whats reasonable and complaining about Blizzard holding hands but obviously not being able to walk on your own feet is that line.

Example:
1.Omg Blizz why cant I choose what I want to use, this game is for noobz and casuals
2. But what about elective mode?
3. Omg Blizz why didnt you tell me about this button in a tutorial, this game has horrible unfriendly design how can you expect me to find a whole button om

 

[Macmanus]

They want to appeal to the casual audience. I think every developer is pushing this incentive more and more.

I actually think this system is amazing for appealing to both the casual and the hardcore.

There are more options and more paths available in D3 for each class than in D2.

The real litmus test in my book will be PVP arenas and how that fairs.

 

[Csokis]

Nice!

 

[FieryBalrog]

This is pretty much the reception of all new Blizzard games.

Unbelievable levels of hype, followed by initial dissapointment, followed by the slow realization that the game is just as awesome as you had hoped because Blizzard is all about the long-haul and not initial superficial wow-factor.

Yeah, we were all disappointed by WoW. >.>

However, his post describes the hype curve of Diablo 2 exactly. People just don't remember because it's 2012.

The bitching wasn't on forums as much because it was the year 2000, but I remember magazines widely complaining about the graphics, about how outdated the combat was, and I remember people bitching so much about the horrible server downtimes on release.

Seriously, Diablo 2 servers were worse than WoW's on release. I had to play on Europe because US West and East crashed constantly, you couldn't log in, or your games would freeze on that "door opening into the light" loading screen. It was still bad on Europe.

 

[Macmanus]

Seriously, Diablo 2 servers were worse than WoW's on release. I had to play on Europe because US West and East crashed constantly, you couldn't log in, or your games would freeze on that "door opening into the light" loading screen. It was still bad on Europe.

Oh, god. I completely forgot about the massive server issues. As well as completely forgetting that I played this game mostly on a dial up modem.

With that in mind - I can't even believe people were bitching about connection issues during beta. That was nothing by comparison.

 

[Fugu]

I've just decided to categorically dismiss all discussion of play balance, as no one will know the number of viable builds until several months after the game is released. The argument that is used to describe why Diablo 2 is not as balanced as it initially appears is as applicable to 3: The presence of a large number of options is irrelevant if many of those options are non-viable. Seeing as we've only played up to level 13 (a level at which, in Diablo 2, basically any skill build is viable) there is basically no way to determine in either direction whether any given skill build will hold up in endgame, which is the only place where it actually matters.

 

[-tetsuo-]

Haven't been keeping up completely with the game, but how exactly does character customization work? I remember hearing about the rune system being how you would change your character but someone told me yesterday that this isn't so anymore?

 

[FieryBalrog]

Oh, god. I completely forgot about the massive server issues. As well as completely forgetting that I played this game mostly on a dial up modem.

With that in mind - I can't even believe people were bitching about connection issues during beta. That was nothing by comparison.

I died so many times because of my computer being shitty and my internet being shitty and their servers being shitty. Sometimes all 3. Fuck that XP loss! I never made it past level 70 in vanilla D2.