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[Wiktor]

I don't want it dead, what made you think that?

That's the impression I got with you "agreeing with his assesement". I guess that impression was wrong. Sorry.

I still think it's too early to call the portable market 'healthy'.

Is it really? 3DS sales prove there's still high demand for handhelds. Of course, I can't say for sure it will be really healthy in the future, but if that's the case then I don't think one could say mobile gaming market is healthy either.

 

[tinfoilhatman]

Never was 5'99. Max was 4'99 the iPad (later universal) and 3'99 the iPhone version. Also, you have to count the 30% of apple. So maybe close to a million. (It should be 1'1M, taking into account the distribution between iPad-Universal and iPhone of the game, if 100% of the sales were at max price)

But, still, is not something amazing for the most praised iPad game of the past year. A lot of similar budget XBL or Steam games got better sales.

In really enjoy S&S but how much could that have possibly cost to make?

 

[diffusionx]

But games are already "better and more complex" and have been for a long time. They just aren't on iOS. And they never will be outside of ports of older games because the economics of the market don't support them.

... and PS1 ports of Street Fighter sucked but people played them instead of going to the arcades anyway. The fact is, for anyone over a certain age, carrying around another handheld can be a pain in the balls, if you have time to play it anyway (which most people don't). Since you're already holding a smartphone, it's more convenient and the games are good and getting better.

 

[Interfectum]

Wow...that's not good news at all. They couldn't sell their game at $.99? Then the market for games like that on iOS must be really small.

The iOS store allows for super niche games like S&S to sell 350,000 and you say "that's not good news at all"?

 

[SmokyDave]

That's the impression I got with you "agreeing with his assesement". I guess that impression was wrong. Sorry.

I do agree with him. People don't want to carry bulky extra devices. I personally only use my handhelds at home on the sofa, but I still love 'em. They're just not 'portable' (for me).

Is it really? 3DS sales prove there's still high demand for handhelds. Of course, I can't say for sure it will be really healthy in the future, but if that's the case then I don't think one could say mobile gaming market is healthy either.

As I said, the 3DS missed a forecast that had already been revised. We might think it's doing OK but Nintendo don't seem as happy. Unless I misunderstood their financial news (entirely possible!). You're also omitting the Vita. Do we even need to discuss how healthy that system looks right now?

 

[Wiktor]

You doubt it?

I know it is.

If you want to go DD-only, which is the only model that makes sense now, you have very few choices:

1- Steam
2- Impulse (Gamestop download whatever)
3- GMG
4- GoG
5- Desura

There are other portals but they are strictly for casual games.

To break onto Steam is a long process and you're not guaranteed a response due to the fact that there's a SHIT TON of people who are applying. I doubt Impulse does major indie now without a "publisher", and I don't know enough about the publishing process for the other 3. GoG just recently started to sell indie games, Desura is majorly unknown at this point, so the only other way to sell it is to sell it yourself, which is LOL-worthy in terms of sales.

You can't self-publish on XBLA, PSN submissions are a fucking pain (I've done a bunch myself, believe me), and WiiWare is DOA.

What's left? iOS. Costs 99$ a year to publish any amount of titles on the App Store, very little cert process, the devices to test on are easily accessible and affordable, and the only "real" requirement that is annoying is having a computer running Mac OS, which is easily cut down by buying a Mac Mini for like 600$ and modding it so it has 8 gigs of ram.

Except that most iOS games do sell LOL-worthy, just like they do when somebody sells them on their own website. There's a lot of commercial PC games being made, but there's still less competition than on iOS. Also, I highly doubt average revenue for pc developers is in such low range as on iOS.

So, while it might be easier to get to appstore than to PC DD services I have yet to see anything that would say it's easier being successful as iOS developer than a PC one.

 

[Ulairi]

The iOS store allows for super niche games like S&S to sell 350,000 and you say "that's not good news at all"?

He said that the developers had very few sales at $.99 or on sales. That is terrible news. It means that the vast majority of iOS consumers are not interested in a great game like S&S, even at $.99. Why would anyone be excited about iOS if a game as good as S&S, which was voted as one of the best games of last year wasn't able to sell big numbers at $.99? I always assumed a majority of their sales came at $.99 but now that I know that they didn't, I am even more worried about iOS because it means great games aren't able to break through to the mass of iOS consumers even when they are priced at the floor. Terrible news for the iOS fans out there who want better games. Hell! If I was Ryan Payton I'd be terrified by this news.

 

[Haunted]

Wow...that's not good news at all. They couldn't sell their game at $.99? Then the market for games like that on iOS must be really small.

I think there's a misunderstanding here, he said that 90% of their sales occurred at higher price points.

He said that the developers had very few sales at $.99 or on sales. That is terrible news. It means that the vast majority of iOS consumers are not interested in a great game like S&S, even at $.99. Why would anyone be excited about iOS if a game as good as S&S, which was voted as one of the best games of last year wasn't able to sell big numbers at $.99? I always assumed a majority of their sales came at $.99 but now that I know that they didn't, I am even more worried about iOS because it means great games aren't able to break through to the mass of iOS consumers even when they are priced at the floor. Terrible news for the iOS fans out there who want better games. Hell! If I was Ryan Payton I'd be terrified by this news.

You're trying way too hard.

edit: why the fuck am I of all people defending iOS here? See what you crazy fucking people are making me do?

 

[Glass Rebel]

He said that the developers had very few sales at $.99 or on sales. That is terrible news. It means that the vast majority of iOS consumers are not interested in a great game like S&S, even at $.99. Why would anyone be excited about iOS if a game as good as S&S, which was voted as one of the best games of last year wasn't able to sell big numbers at $.99? I always assumed a majority of their sales came at $.99 but now that I know that they didn't, I am even more worried about iOS because it means great games aren't able to break through to the mass of iOS consumers even when they are priced at the floor. Terrible news for the iOS fans out there who want better games. Hell! If I was Ryan Payton I'd be terrified by this news.

First of all, it's his game.

Second, what exactly is bad about selling the majority of your units at full-price? Especially when you sold over 300k?

 

[Interfectum]

He said that the developers had very few sales at $.99 or on sales. That is terrible news. It means that the vast majority of iOS consumers are not interested in a great game like S&S, even at $.99. Why would anyone be excited about iOS if a game as good as S&S, which was voted as one of the best games of last year wasn't able to sell big numbers at $.99? I always assumed a majority of their sales came at $.99 but now that I know that they didn't, I am even more worried about iOS because it means great games aren't able to break through to the mass of iOS consumers even when they are priced at the floor. Terrible news for the iOS fans out there who want better games. Hell! If I was Ryan Payton I'd be terrified by this news.

Exactly how many copies of S&S do you think would've sold on 3DS or Vita? What part of niche don't you understand?

 

[aznpxdd]

He said that the developers had very few sales at $.99 or on sales. That is terrible news. It means that the vast majority of iOS consumers are not interested in a great game like S&S, even at $.99. Why would anyone be excited about iOS if a game as good as S&S, which was voted as one of the best games of last year wasn't able to sell big numbers at $.99? I always assumed a majority of their sales came at $.99 but now that I know that they didn't, I am even more worried about iOS because it means great games aren't able to break through to the mass of iOS consumers even when they are priced at the floor. Terrible news for the iOS fans out there who want better games. Hell! If I was Ryan Payton I'd be terrified by this news.

lol, you are such a terrible iOS troll.

 

[jman2050]

... and PS1 ports of Street Fighter sucked but people played them instead of going to the arcades anyway. The fact is, for anyone over a certain age, carrying around another handheld can be a pain in the balls, if you have time to play it anyway (which most people don't). Since you're already holding a smartphone, it's more convenient and the games are good and getting better.

This post does absolutely zilch to address anything I just said.

He said that the developers had very few sales at $.99 or on sales. That is terrible news. It means that the vast majority of iOS consumers are not interested in a great game like S&S, even at $.99. Why would anyone be excited about iOS if a game as good as S&S, which was voted as one of the best games of last year wasn't able to sell big numbers at $.99? I always assumed a majority of their sales came at $.99 but now that I know that they didn't, I am even more worried about iOS because it means great games aren't able to break through to the mass of iOS consumers even when they are priced at the floor. Terrible news for the iOS fans out there who want better games. Hell! If I was Ryan Payton I'd be terrified by this news.

Well this thread just took a very amusing turn.

 

[Wiktor]

I do agree with him. People don't want to carry bulky extra devices.

Tell that to all the people who carry iPads around.

As I said, the 3DS missed a forecast that had already been revised. We might think it's doing OK but Nintendo don't seem as happy. Unless I misunderstood their financial news (entirely possible!). You're also omitting the Vita. Do we even need to discuss how healthy that system looks right now?

Handheld gaming = Nintendo. Always has been this way. Even before iPhone only Nintendo was able to achieve huge success in handheld market.
I can understand Nintendo not being happy, but you can't deny 3DS is selling well and proving there's still high demand for this type of device, which is more than I can say about anything showing there's high demand for more complex games on iOS.

 

[Cromulent_Word]

i'm sorry dudes, should have known better than to wade into this.

I hadnt had a cup of coffee.

<3

 

[Htown]

It's very simple. When Nintendo games start appearing elsewhere, people stop buying Nintendo hardware to play Nintendo games.

Nintendo only sells video games and video game hardware. Why the FUCK would they put games out on iOS when the iOS market doesn't support the software revenue per title they currently make (quite successfully) on a per-title basis, while reducing the amount of money they make on hardware?

How is that a solution to their problem?

 

[Ulairi]

I think there's a misunderstanding here, he said that 90% of their sales occurred at higher price points.

No. I understood that. What I'm saying is that there are all of these iOS devices out there and when a great game like S&S is released and sells the majority of its sales at the higher price and when it goes on sale doesn't grab that mass of consumers? How is that good news? I would expect a great game like S&S to sell really well when it is on sale and it apparently didn't sell at all when it was on sale. It tells me the number of consumers who want great games like S&S on iOS is extremely small and that developers should be very wary of jumping into that pond because if a game like S&S that had huge PR/Word of mouth around it cannot sell at $.99 what will happen when a game doesn't get that kind of response?

 

[Cipherr]

That's such a disingenuous number. The barrier to get an application on the AppStore is $100. You are going to have a shitton of throwaway apps that bring that average down. Nintendo would be nowhere near that number if they were to release something in that market.

We dont have a clue where Nintendo would land. Thats why we use actual data to get averages and peaks of what the best mobile developers has earned.

There is a lot of real world data that shows even if they matched the mobile greats, the profits would pale in comparison to even their newest 3DS games that have been out less than a year, and the only argument anyone can provide to the contrary is "Well its Nintendo, so they would do MANY MANY times what the current mobile giants do for sure man!"

Thats a lovely opinion, but is there anything to back it up? You guys are asking for numbers, and they are being provided, and then you just balk at them and say its not an accurate representation of the potential, even when people use the most successful mobile games as an example. You dont have an real information to support this position though, thats why this argument is nigh eternal and just goes in circles.

 

[diffusionx]

No. I understood that. What I'm saying is that there are all of these iOS devices out there and when a great game like S&S is released and sells the majority of its sales at the higher price and when it goes on sale doesn't grab that mass of consumers? How is that good news? I would expect a great game like S&S to sell really well when it is on sale and it apparently didn't sell at all when it was on sale. It tells me the number of consumers who want great games like S&S on iOS is extremely small and that developers should be very wary of jumping into that pond because if a game like S&S that had huge PR/Word of mouth around it cannot sell at $.99 what will happen when a game doesn't get that kind of response?

Lots of good games don't get the audience they deserve. On every platform.

 

[Htown]

Sword and Sworcery's performance is irrelevant.

The S&S guys don't sell hardware.

 

[Stumpokapow]

No. I understood that. What I'm saying is that there are all of these iOS devices out there and when a great game like S&S is released and sells the majority of its sales at the higher price and when it goes on sale doesn't grab that mass of consumers? How is that good news? I would expect a great game like S&S to sell really well when it is on sale and it apparently didn't sell at all when it was on sale. It tells me the number of consumers who want great games like S&S on iOS is extremely small and that developers should be very wary of jumping into that pond because if a game like S&S that had huge PR/Word of mouth around it cannot sell at $.99 what will happen when a game doesn't get that kind of response?

<iOS Developer> Our game was an unambiguous success at a solid price-point!

<Ulairi> Sounds like bad news for iOS!

 

[SmokyDave]

No. I understood that. What I'm saying is that there are all of these iOS devices out there and when a great game like S&S is released and sells the majority of its sales at the higher price and when it goes on sale doesn't grab that mass of consumers? How is that good news? I would expect a great game like S&S to sell really well when it is on sale and it apparently didn't sell at all when it was on sale. It tells me the number of consumers who want great games like S&S on iOS is extremely small and that developers should be very wary of jumping into that pond because if a game like S&S that had huge PR/Word of mouth around it cannot sell at $.99 what will happen when a game doesn't get that kind of response?

That's it sunshine, you double down!

Tell that to all the people who carry iPads around.

I'm not going to argue with anyone that can fit an iPad in their pockets. God knows what else they'll be packing.

Handheld gaming = Nintendo. Always has been this way. Even before iPhone only Nintendo was able to achieve huge success in handheld market.
I can understand Nintendo not being happy, but you can't deny 3DS is selling well and proving there's still high demand for this type of device, which is more than I can say about anything showing there's high demand for more complex games on iOS.

I don't see the connection between the 3DS selling less than expected and AAA iOS games.

 

[Interfectum]

No. I understood that. What I'm saying is that there are all of these iOS devices out there and when a great game like S&S is released and sells the majority of its sales at the higher price and when it goes on sale doesn't grab that mass of consumers? How is that good news? I would expect a great game like S&S to sell really well when it is on sale and it apparently didn't sell at all when it was on sale. It tells me the number of consumers who want great games like S&S on iOS is extremely small and that developers should be very wary of jumping into that pond because if a game like S&S that had huge PR/Word of mouth around it cannot sell at $.99 what will happen when a game doesn't get that kind of response?

Just stop, please.

 

[UncleSporky]

i'm sorry dudes, should have known better than to wade into this.

I hadnt had a cup of coffee.

<3

Well wait a second, this thread's about iOS viability vs. other platforms.

I know you just launched on Steam, but how do things look there? Better received than on iOS, worse?

 

[Ulairi]

First of all, it's his game.

Second, what exactly is bad about selling the majority of your units at full-price? Especially when you sold over 300k?

The whole theory about Nintendo going to iOS is that there are hundreds of millions of consumers out there and that games can sell to these users because there are so many of them. Now, I'm finding out that a great game capped out at 300,000 and they sold for around $5 at that price. I think if that information is correct that that is terrible news. If a game like S&S was released on the 3DS of Vita and sold for a much higher price it could have earned a lot more revenue even at a fraction of the sales. This tells me that if I'm a producer of "niche" games that iOS isn't the place for me. I'd much rather sell 50,000 units at $35 than 300,000 at $5.

 

[Glass Rebel]

No. I understood that. What I'm saying is that there are all of these iOS devices out there and when a great game like S&S is released and sells the majority of its sales at the higher price and when it goes on sale doesn't grab that mass of consumers? How is that good news? I would expect a great game like S&S to sell really well when it is on sale and it apparently didn't sell at all when it was on sale. It tells me the number of consumers who want great games like S&S on iOS is extremely small and that developers should be very wary of jumping into that pond because if a game like S&S that had huge PR/Word of mouth around it cannot sell at $.99 what will happen when a game doesn't get that kind of response?

You already have a tag, dude.

The whole theory about Nintendo going to iOS is that there are hundreds of millions of consumers out there and that games can sell to these users because there are so many of them. Now, I'm finding out that a great game capped out at 300,000 and they sold for around $5 at that price. I think if that information is correct that that is terrible news. If a game like S&S was released on the 3DS of Vita and sold for a much higher price it could have earned a lot more revenue even at a fraction of the sales. This tells me that if I'm a producer of "niche" games that iOS isn't the place for me. I'd much rather sell 50,000 units at $35 than 300,000 at $5.

Have you even played the fucking game? I have, twice, on iOS and on Steam and I can tell you right now that comparing it with Mario makes no fucking sense. I don't agree with the (apparently) popular opinion that Nintendo should put their stuff on iOS either but trying to spin the success of S&S isn't really helping you here.

 

[Cipherr]

As I said, the 3DS missed a forecast that had already been revised. We might think it's doing OK but Nintendo don't seem as happy. Unless I misunderstood their financial news (entirely possible!). You're also omitting the Vita. Do we even need to discuss how healthy that system looks right now?

Oh yeah, they very narrowly missed that forcast, and in the next reports will be healthily profitable going forward. Lets be real, how likely are you to change your tune at that point? How likely are we to see quarterlies in 1Q 2013 and you here cheering about how successful the 3DS is? Not very likely at all, and you know it. 3DS had a rough start, but it has more than a rosy outlook at this point, the trajectory is very clear.

As for the Vita, its having its troubles, and may very well brick, but its a good thing Vita as a whole doesnt represent all of mobile gaming.

Hell Smoky, if it did, I could point to Androids laughable issues selling games and use that to qualify that mobile gaming as a whole is a joke and that noone wants to spend money on it right? Mobile gaming isnt healthy, I mean, look at Android.... right?

 

[Wiktor]

No. I understood that. What I'm saying is that there are all of these iOS devices out there and when a great game like S&S is released and sells the majority of its sales at the higher price and when it goes on sale doesn't grab that mass of consumers? How is that good news? I would expect a great game like S&S to sell really well when it is on sale and it apparently didn't sell at all when it was on sale. It tells me the number of consumers who want great games like S&S on iOS is extremely small and that developers should be very wary of jumping into that pond because if a game like S&S that had huge PR/Word of mouth around it cannot sell at $.99 what will happen when a game doesn't get that kind of response?

Well, the devs seems to be happy with how it did. It is obviously a niche game, even when on sale it won't suddenly become any less niche and make Angry Birds crowd crazy about it. But just because your game doesn't grab the mainstream success doesn't mean it failed. Aiming at a niche can still make you good money. Also, the game is like a year old, unless it's been on 0.99 sale for few months it's not surprising only 10% camed from discounted period. On Steam sales still stay high even after the sale ends and I imagine something similiar could be happening on appstore too.

 

[jman2050]

The Vita isn't good to look at in this discussion because its problems are either self-inflicted or a natural effect of competition from Nintendo.

 

[Ulairi]

<iOS Developer> Our game was an unambiguous success at a solid price-point!

<Ulairi> Sounds like bad news for iOS!

You're missing my point. We have many people posting that all of these games should go to iOS because of the hundreds of millions of users out there. That Nintendo should release games on iOS because there are millions more iOS devices out there than dedicated gaming devices. But, a game like S&S wasn't able to sell to any of them apparently at $.99. It's great that it was able to sell at $5 but why wasn't it able to sell at $.99? Wouldn't you assume that people would be more willing to buy a game for a $.99 that is a very good game with a good reputation and good word of mouth? It apparently wasn't able to sell at that price point.

I'm arguing against the theory that the dedicate gaming model is over now that iOS is there. I don't see what is so hard about that connection I'm trying to make.

 

[Interfectum]

If a game like S&S was released on the 3DS of Vita and sold for a much higher price it could have earned a lot more revenue even at a fraction of the sales. This tells me that if I'm a producer of "niche" games that iOS isn't the place for me. I'd much rather sell 50,000 units at $35 than 300,000 at $5.

lol you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about... wow.

 

[Stumpokapow]

The whole theory about Nintendo going to iOS is that there are hundreds of millions of consumers out there and that games can sell to these users because there are so many of them. Now, I'm finding out that a great game capped out at 300,000 and they sold for around $5 at that price. I think if that information is correct that that is terrible news. If a game like S&S was released on the 3DS of Vita and sold for a much higher price it could have earned a lot more revenue even at a fraction of the sales. This tells me that if I'm a producer of "niche" games that iOS isn't the place for me. I'd much rather sell 50,000 units at $35 than 300,000 at $5.

50,000 * 35 * 0.3 = $525,000
300,000 * 3 * 0.7 = $1,050,000

By your own crazy made-up math, Capy would have done better on iOS than selling on 3DS/Vita. That's with your crazy made-up math. Not with real world math. You couldn't even contrive an example that supported your point.

 

[Cipherr]

The Vita isn't good to look at in this discussion because its problems are either self-inflicted or a natural effect of competition from Nintendo.

Yeah dragging Vita into it was the worst of strawmen, only brought up because the 3DS's future success is all but assured. It would be hard to call mobile gaming unhealthy with the way the 3DS is going, so they are reaching for the competitor thats failing to prop up that position. Give me a break..

 

[Lothars]

Oh yeah, they very narrowly missed that forcast, and in the next reports will be healthily profitable going forward. Lets be real, how likely are you to change your tune at that point? How likely are we to see quarterlies in 1Q 2013 and you here cheering about how successful the 3DS is? Not very likely at all, and you know it. 3DS had a rough start, but it has more than a rosy outlook at this point, the trajectory is very clear.

As for the Vita, its having its troubles, and may very well brick, but its a good thing Vita as a whole doesnt represent all of mobile gaming.

Hell Smoky, if it did, I could point to Androids laughable issues selling games and use that to qualify that mobile gaming as a whole is a joke and that noone wants to spend money on it right?

He's not going to change his tune because from what I get out of all his posts regarding IOS gaming and handheld gaming, he wants handheld gaming to die and IOS gaming to take over everything.

I am still thinking that something is going to have to change in IOS gaming regarding pricing because the race to the bottom pricing is not a good thing for developers and well it's a good thing for consumers, I don't think it's anything to indicate the longterm health of it.

 

[commish]

No. I understood that. What I'm saying is that there are all of these iOS devices out there and when a great game like S&S is released and sells the majority of its sales at the higher price and when it goes on sale doesn't grab that mass of consumers? How is that good news? I would expect a great game like S&S to sell really well when it is on sale and it apparently didn't sell at all when it was on sale. It tells me the number of consumers who want great games like S&S on iOS is extremely small and that developers should be very wary of jumping into that pond because if a game like S&S that had huge PR/Word of mouth around it cannot sell at $.99 what will happen when a game doesn't get that kind of response?

Stop with this trolling!

Considering the relatively low cost to make an iOS game, I think it's a pretty low risk affair to make an iOS game. I'd love to see some numbers on the 50 most expensive games in the iOS store and the profits (or losses) they generated.

Where the real money is for iOS games is in the IAP. I'm playing this stupid game now on iOS where I know people have spent hundreds (yes, hundreds) of dollars buying IAP. It's pretty amazing, and really, it's the future of gaming. As an example, just look at the real auction house in Diablo 3. Gamers are willing to pay. The trick is, those who pay can't have too big an advantage against those that don't. It can't be a race to see who spends the most money.

 

[Cromulent_Word]

I know you just launched on Steam, but how do things look there? Better received than on iOS, worse?

Too early to tell, but I know for sure that both platforms are amazingly viable for special, unique, niche games.

 

[Wiktor]

I'm not going to argue with anyone that can fit an iPad in their pockets. God knows what else they'll be packing.

Seriously though, they do cary them in backpacks and 3DS is still easier to carry around this way than a tablet.

I don't see the connection between the 3DS selling less than expected and AAA iOS games.

To me 3DS selling well means people still want handheld games, while nothing on iOS has shown me smartphone gamers want handheld styled games. So I don't have any reason to assume handheld gamers are abandoning their devices and switching to smartphones.

 

[VAPitts]

i haven't read through this whole thread so this has probably been touched on. but all i want to know is how you get a huge profit from games that are at the lowest .99 and the highest 14.99? i'm talking iOS/Android not Steam.

cuz i can understand the high volume, but as mentioned, that's with the popular games (Angry Birds, Infinity Blade, etc). even then, is it enough profit for distibutor as well as the developer?

 

[Ulairi]

Well, the devs seems to be happy with how it did. It is obviously a niche game, even when on sale it won't suddenly become any less niche and make Angry Birds crowd crazy about it. But just because your game doesn't grab the mainstream success doesn't mean it failed. Aiming at a niche can still make you good money. Also, the game is like a year old, unless it's been on 0.99 sale for few months it's not surprising only 10% camed from discounted period. On Steam sales still stay high even after the sale ends and I imagine something similiar could be happening on appstore too.

I'm not saying it should become an Angry Birds break out. I would just expect some sales to come from a $.99 price point. There is a core audience that purchased it at the "regular" price and apparently that's it. There isn't anything beyond that. That is what I'm talking about.

You already have a tag, dude.



Have you even played the fucking game? I have, twice, on iOS and on Steam and I can tell you right now that comparing it with Mario makes no fucking sense. I don't agree with the (apparently) popular opinion that Nintendo should put their stuff on iOS either but trying to spin the success of S&S isn't really helping you here.

I played the game. I wasn't comparing it to Mario. I was comparing it to a game that sold 50,000 units and Mario games sell tens of millions of units.

 

[Glass Rebel]

50,000 * 35 * 0.3 = $525,000
300,000 * 3 * 0.7 = $1,050,000

By your own crazy made-up math, Capy would have done better on iOS than selling on 3DS/Vita. That's with your crazy made-up math. Not with real world math. You couldn't even contrive an example that supported your point.

dayum :lol

Too early to tell, but I know for sure that both platforms are amazingly viable for special, unique, niche games.

Super T.I.M.E. Force for Steam confirmed, paging Kotaku.

 

[Krauser Kat]

I watch Korra on nick.com last weekend and saw commercials for 3 apps that looked like they were made for a couple thousand.

The base for buying these games is so large now, advertising outside of the ios store can make a game do gangbusters. Angrybirds does a great job making people know a new game is coming and people buy millions of them as a result.

 

[Interfectum]

Too early to tell, but I know for sure that both platforms are amazingly viable for special, unique, niche games.

Awesome game, btw. Got it on both iPhone and Steam. <3

 

[SmokyDave]

Oh yeah, they very narrowly missed that forcast, and in the next reports will be healthily profitable going forward. Lets be real, how likely are you to change your tune at that point? How likely are we to see quarterlies in 1Q 2013 and you here cheering about how successful the 3DS is? Not very likely at all, and you know it. 3DS had a rough start, but it has more than a rosy outlook at this point, the trajectory is very clear.

Go through my post history, I've already said I'm impressed with the way Nintendo turned things around. Doesn't mean that we'll be seeing 'greater than DS' numbers for the rest of the gen. I don't think the trajectory is 'very' clear. It's also telling that they even had to 'turn things around'.

As for the Vita, its having its troubles, and may very well brick, but its a good thing Vita as a whole doesnt represent all of mobile gaming.

Hell Smoky, if it did, I could point to Androids laughable issues selling games and use that to qualify that mobile gaming as a whole is a joke and that noone wants to spend money on it right? Mobile gaming isnt healthy, I mean, look at Android.... right?

There are two dedicated handhelds (not counting last gen stuff). You'd be ignoring half of the market if you ignored the Vita.

I don't think 'mobile / smartphone' gaming is healthy outside of iOS so I wouldn't refute your Android point.

Yeah dragging Vita into it was the worst of strawmen, only brought up because the 3DS's future success is all but assured. It would be hard to call mobile gaming unhealthy with the way the 3DS is going, so they are reaching for the competitor thats failing to prop up that position. Give me a break..

Are you joking?

User 1: The handheld market is viable.

User 2: The Vita ain't looking healthy at all!

You: STRAWMAN!

 

[diffusionx]

You're missing my point. We have many people posting that all of these games should go to iOS because of the hundreds of millions of users out there. That Nintendo should release games on iOS because there are millions more iOS devices out there than dedicated gaming devices.

I haven't seen a single person in this thread say that - I said the opposite in fact. And obviously there is a big difference between Superbrothers and Mario. Come on dude.

 

[Ulairi]

50,000 * 35 * 0.3 = $525,000
300,000 * 3 * 0.7 = $1,050,000

By your own crazy made-up math, Capy would have done better on iOS than selling on 3DS/Vita. That's with your crazy made-up math. Not with real world math. You couldn't even contrive an example that supported your point.

Can you link me to a source that the there is only a 30% take away for games on the Vita or 3DS? I wasn't talking about retail releases. I was arguing for a higher price point. I wasn't even saying that S&S should be $35. I apologize if I wasn't clear on that. On platforms like the PC, consoles, and portables they support a much higher price point. We can have digital distribution through the Vita store and it will support a game at a much higher price point than what iOS has shown.

My point still stands: We are told that iOS is the future because there are hundreds of millions of devices out there. Nintendo should release games on iOS. Everyone should. I'm not arguing that there isn't a viable gaming market for iOS nor did I ever say that someone cannot be profitable on iOS. I'm just saying that for all the people that think that if company X would release their games on iOS they'd be making all of this money it simply isn't true.

 

[muu]

I guess what we need to see are the relative success of similar titles or franchises. How did Sonic iOS do? It's not as huge a franchise as mario may be, but if ios is truly a market where Mario could sell 20 million Sonic must have at least 500k, right?

 

[Ulairi]

One of the big promises about DD services is that it allows a low cost way to get titles into the market and it allows for extreme price flexibility for publishers with their games. I was just surprised that when a game as fantastic as S&S dropped to $.99 it didn't see a huge uptick in sales. On Steam we hear all the time that when publishers drop the price of their games and have the big sales that revenues have a huge uptick. I was truly surprised that that apparently didn't happen with S&S. To me it means one of two things, one is that the S&S is such a niche game that it cannot appeal beyond that niche even at a very low price point or that the market for iOS for games that I really enjoy is smaller than I thought.

 

[Cipherr]

Go through my post history, I've already said I'm impressed with the way Nintendo turned things around. Doesn't mean that we'll be seeing 'greater than DS' numbers for the rest of the gen. I don't think the trajectory is 'very' clear. It's also telling that they even had to 'turn things around'.

So the bar for healthy is doing better than the DS for the remainder of the gen? As I recall, the first year or so of the 3DS has actually been ahead of the DS, does this mean that it currently meets your standard of healthy? I mean, whats healthy man. Profits? Or merely outpacing its predecessor? Is that the sole definition of healthy?

Thats a ridiculous bar for healthy man, moving the goalposts to a tee. Better than the best ever? And I would love to hear why you don't think the trajectory is very clear, with some actual examples. Looking at everything from when exactly when the 3DS will return to profitability on the hardware, to the announced and upcoming release list, and even the trending of the bloody exchange rates, the trajectory is clear as crystal. But if you have some insight to add there, please do. And a little detail on what exactly needing to 'turn it around' is telling would be nice to hear also. Why don't we just establish right now what would be acceptable as healthy and what wouldn't be.

Why beat around the bush here with vagueness.

There are two dedicated handhelds (not counting last gen stuff). You'd be ignoring half of the market if you ignored the Vita.

I don't think 'mobile / smartphone' gaming is healthy outside of iOS so I wouldn't refute your Android point.

Nintendo owns more than half of the handheld market in terms of both hardware and software. And to your last point, if thats the case I find it odd that you chose to word your statement this way:

I still think it's too early to call the portable market 'healthy'.

Instead of this way:

I also still think it's too early to call the PSV 'healthy'.

 

[tinfoilhatman]

He said that the developers had very few sales at $.99 or on sales. That is terrible news. It means that the vast majority of iOS consumers are not interested in a great game like S&S, even at $.99. Why would anyone be excited about iOS if a game as good as S&S, which was voted as one of the best games of last year wasn't able to sell big numbers at $.99? I always assumed a majority of their sales came at $.99 but now that I know that they didn't, I am even more worried about iOS because it means great games aren't able to break through to the mass of iOS consumers even when they are priced at the floor. Terrible news for the iOS fans out there who want better games. Hell! If I was Ryan Payton I'd be terrified by this news.

I don't think S&Sever sold at less than 2.99$ iPad Version is 5$

Vita and 3DS are great platforms their just not for me, I get those experiences at home on a 60in plasma and surround sound and that where I like them to stay.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

Only the big names get profit. I would guess that the majority of "indie start ups" lose money.

 

[SmokyDave]

So the bar for healthy is doing better than the DS for the remainder of the gen? As I recall, the first year or so of the 3DS has actually been ahead of the DS, does this mean that it currently meets your standard of healthy?

I'm well aware that the 3DS is ahead of the DS. That's why I don't think the future is clear at all. My bar for 'healthy' would probably be 'meeting the expectations of the manufacturer' but obviously you won't like that one.

Thats a ridiculous bar for healthy man, moving the goalposts to a tee. Better than the best ever? And I would love to hear why you dont think the trajectory is very clear, with some actual examples. Looking at everything from when exactly the 3DS will return to profitibility on the hardware, to the announced and upcoming release list, the trajectory is clear as crystal. But if you have some insight to add there, please do. And a little detail on what exactly needing to 'turn it around' is telling would be nice to hear also.

That wasn't the bar for healthy. I don't think the trajectory is clear because the unit is about a year old and has had a huge price-cut and 2 Mario titles spurring early adoption. I expect that to slow.

Nintendo owns more than half of the handheld market in terms of both hardware and software. And to your last point, if thats the case I find it odd that you chose to word your statement this way:

Instead of this way:

The mobile market is far more diverse than the dedicated handheld market. We were talking about the health of a market with just two players and you want to ignore one of them. Nonsensical.