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abstract alien
Member
boiled goose
good with gravy
One thing I am still waiting for is what nintendo's value proposal to core gamers will be.
WiiU was designed for getting core gamers back.
If it won't by having superior hardware, we are still missing a lot of potential details about what Nintendo is thinking.
(or they could just be crazy and deluded)
also, it is called Upad. I believe Nintendo used this term at some point.
WiiU was designed for getting core gamers back.
If it won't by having superior hardware, we are still missing a lot of potential details about what Nintendo is thinking.
(or they could just be crazy and deluded)
also, it is called Upad. I believe Nintendo used this term at some point.
Smiles and Cries
Member
and its MONDAY, waiting for Ubisoft's weekly leaks :3
and IdeaMan to become a member
and IdeaMan to become a member
lordfroakie
Member
Wait a few more weeks
I'm convinced of this as well. As soon as I saw it, I knew that this would be the case. We'll see Nintendo use it well, and then maybe a small number of third-party titles that'll raise our eyebrows. It'll be a generation where we see a few punctuation mark games that make us go "wow" at the tablet's application.
Whether or not that list of "wow" games is worth the allocation of resources to the uPad, we'll see..
Its a big gamble. Pad probably has 40 dollars worth of components at a minimum. Thats quite a bit of performance boost in system budget
ShellyDeKiller
Member
Rumour: According to Hiphopgamer, a new Splinter Cell is bound for WiiU too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BtYM4miqaI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BtYM4miqaI
abstract alien
Member
Is there anyone here outside of myself that wants them to keep the slide pads?
I'm not going to watch it until later, but I hope he's not basing it off that list that was on GN a while back.
I would love a splinter cell game on the Wii U.
Chet Rippo
Member
I think they make more sense with the design of the Utensil, and I don't mind the slide pads on the 3DS.
shadyspace
Banned
yeah but what if the next Xbox really does have a tablet controller.
If the next xbox has a tablet controller that hurts nintendo even more because they lose their uniqueness and are left with an underpowered box that just does what the other does but not as well
Freezie KO
Banned
I wouldn't say I prefer them, but I really haven't had a problem with them on 3DS. If these are even better, I'm neutral.
shadyspace
Banned
Sounds like they shouldn't even bother.
Well the whole concept behind the Upad is to differentiate themselves and have a draw in to make up for the lack of power.
If their competitors come out and have their own Upad and the power it does make the WiiU rather pointless for anything more than a gamecube scenario. Thats the trouble with withdrawing from the arms race. You leave yourself few options other than to try and be different but if others decide to be the same with the different you finad yourself in a very uncomfortable situation
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
I will kick a puppy if they bring back those caves.
aeroslash
Member
What? I really don't know what to say. Or this is false or i've been learning to and modelling in a very bad way all my life (hint: No)
Objects in general are not drawn with splines (you can't model splines, you draw them) and the conversion from splines to mesh is usually full of problems and time consuming.
Developers do model a high res mesh of the object and then low-poly them, though, so the high res models will indeed be availabe. The use of this thecnique is to bake the normal and bump maps into the low poly model in order to give the appearance of a very detailed model even with a low poly structure.
With that said, i doubt Nintendo uses this pipeline. They haven't started to use normal mapping in their games and bump mapping is only on the minority (and that can be a simple drawn texture). So i really don't think they have high res models available ready to use.
How exactly is the competition going to sell a MORE POWERFUL console with a BETTER TABLET controller at an attractive price though? Especially since they would likely be releasing a year later, giving Nintendo plenty of time to undercut them with a price drop if they felt threatened enough.
Well I think They could easily have an extra $100+ in building material costs which alone allows the substantial GPU upgrade and a tablet that is on par with or improved.
Sony and MS are not afraid of the $400 or even $450 price range. Nintendo will likely go for $299 and even if they cut the price it wouldnt change the fact that Nintendo would offer nothing unique and be noticeably weaker
That price range didn't do MS any favors even with a year headstart. But I guess we'll see.
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
Why say wii u is underpowered? Couldn't you just as easily say that's it's "just right"? While it's Sony and Microsoft's machines that are overpowered.
a modestly upgraded 360 in 2012 is still a 360.
As always, if Microsoft and/or Sony decided to go for a tablet controller, it wouldn't really matter what specs the console or tablet had in the end. What would matter is the software built for the system. Nintendo have had this idea in their minds for quite a while and will have software built from the ground up specifically for the Wii U, Sony and Microsoft would basically be bringing to market the PlayStation Move in comparison and Sony has struggled greatly at bringing compelling content to that.
In short, software sells hardware.
In short, software sells hardware.
Gahiggidy
My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
Link?
Tell us about your sources
I don't know - I'm just not seeing the correlation between "noticeably weaker" and sales. The Wii and DS are the most striking examples - both ridiculously underpowered compared to their competition, and yet the DS crushed the PSP the entire gen, and the Wii crushed its competition for the first 4 or 5 years. Of course, the DS had the touch-screen and Wii had motion controls to help differentiate them, since you mentioned offering something unique.
But then there's the PS2, which crushed the XBox for the full gen, despite being noticeably weaker. And the PS2 offered far less features than the XBox. Horrible online infrastructure, no built-in harddrive, etc. Didn't seem to matter.
And the 3DS is crushing the Vita, despite being noticeably weaker. And yeah, it has a 3D screen, but I don't think anyone would argue that the 3D screen is a major reason why people are buying the 3DS over the Vita.
The "noticeably weaker" distinction really doesn't have any correlation whatsoever to mainstream success or failure.
As for offering something unique - Nintendo always has something unique. Their software. It may prove to be a smashing success, or it may not catch on with the mainstream. But it's there, and that's always their primary differentiation from the competition.
It's still too early to try to make any predictions about how next-gen will play out at this point - but your argument falls flat on its face when there are so many counter-examples available just from the last several years. (Not to mention that MS offering Kinect 2 + tablet controller + standard controller + very powerful system all in one box starts getting pretty expensive --- and yes, Sony should be very afraid about launching at $450 or higher again - that would get them off to a very slow start again next gen).
ShockingAlberto
Member
The problem with this argument is that Nintendo in the arms race is still not a successful Nintendo. They finished third to more expensive systems, one without better graphics, and one without the same level of support.
Getting out of it, as much as it causes gnashing of teeth, allowed them to price cut as need be, keep their own dev costs down, and keep their hardware affordable by a much larger gap.
A 360 in 2012 may be a 360. But a 360 in 2012 is also considerably cheaper than a 360 in 2005.
Getting out of it, as much as it causes gnashing of teeth, allowed them to price cut as need be, keep their own dev costs down, and keep their hardware affordable by a much larger gap.
A 360 in 2012 may be a 360. But a 360 in 2012 is also considerably cheaper than a 360 in 2005.
And you are absolutely right. Its a wise move for Nintendo maybe. During the Gamecube years they were fortunate to have the GBA juggernaut. If the Wii U were to become Gamecube 2.0 they do not have the kind of financial flow to hide the shortcomings this time around.
Gamecube 2.0 would be devastating to Nintendo this time around. The whole issue is if this is their attempt to rewin the core audience then it basically says they already conceeded defeat
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
This is kinda similar to how I feel. I like touch controls, and I like the idea of streaming video, but they're gimmicks I'm not really interested in. I would prefer touch interface gimmicks be kept to the 3DS, and as neat as game streaming is the reality is I'll rarely use it (as in, TV being used, thus I play on the pad). Nice for others who do, pretty useless to me.
I expect uses to be mixed but, as a whole, gimmicky, as most games will not be built specifically for the Wii U. Even neat stuff like what IdeaMan suggest with Assassin's Creed 3 really aren't enough. Doesn't matter how neat or useful the gimmick is: it's not how the game was designed from the ground up, and it's not going to be enough to sell me on that port. I don't care about additional birds eye hunting cameras on the Wii U Pad when I can play the same game, minus the gimmick, just as effectively and significantly better looking on my PC.
But this goes hand in hand with my disinterest in the pad as a whole, because of how much I love the Wii remote. I was actually disappointed with the pad. Neat it may be, but unique it is not. It's an extension of the DS/3DS philosophy, now on a console. The actually controller itself is back peddling to pander to pad-only gamers who can't hack the sheer awesomeness of the Wii Remote, which is ultimately the superior, more original and unique control scheme. When I look at the Wii U pad I see a touch screen with a traditional controller attached to it. With the Wii Remote I see awesome motion controls, comfortable split controller design, and the incredible IR pointer.
In my head, I would have much preferred to see the Wii U simply refine the Wii Remote philosophy with stronger hardware. I wanted to see the Wii dream evolve, Nintendo and others taking the Wii remote to new levels. Given the NES->SNES and N64->GCN path of progress, I totally expected this to happen. Wii->Wii U. And yeah, it's backwards compatible, and a lot of games will still probably use the remotes, I just don't care about the pad.
This is especially true for what you said: it's an more expensive unit that will detract from hardware strength relative to sale price.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I think it is the exact same tact they are taking with 3DS. With that system, they are explicitly trying to win the PSP audience. They're assuming that core gamers are people in their 20s, people who would have been six or seven when the N64 was getting its most famous games (thus the strong push toward N64 content on the 3DS).
I don't think the strategy is one of concession, but rather the natural evolution of where you go from a more casual system. Rewinning the hardcore has nothing to do with giving up.
TheCongressman1
Member
I've said this as well.
I really hope at least Nintendo has some interesting ideas for this, because I'm expecting the majority of 3rd parties using it for maps and hud.
I always assumed that was their plan. Wii = NES. Introduce people to gaming & now with Wii U they hope these same people are ready to make gaming a more dedicated hobby, thus they become hardcore gamers. A new generation grows up on Nintendo & follows them through the years.
You model everything with straight lines, then? That's gotta be quite time-consuming.
abstract alien
Member
Concerning gaming in general, I personally want things like the map and inventory relocated to a second screen like the DS has done. I get irritated with some games now with how they handle menu and map management, and a second screen alleviates this a lot for me. Of course, the ultimately better solution would be to just make a better designed game to begin with, but that isn't the world we live in most of the time.
The wiimote will be missed though, as it was such a big forward movement in controller design. I hope it isn't forgotten, but I do think it will be for the most part.
The wiimote will be missed though, as it was such a big forward movement in controller design. I hope it isn't forgotten, but I do think it will be for the most part.
Exactly. If Nintendo learned anything from the Wii, it's that they can win the casual gamer any time they like, as long as the valuation is there. But winning a hardcore gamer requires a concerted effort that has to be made up front. Iwata has already stated as much.
Plus, Nintendo is now the "de facto" casual gamer brand, since Nintendo is the first company to actually come out and market to that sector directly, which wins them a lot of brand power. A lot of casual gamers will buy it just because it's a new Wii, so the fight for them is partially already won. Better to focus on the hardcore gamer, since they require extra-special attention like spoiled children apparently.
boiled goose
good with gravy
I agree completely.
I am mostly really sad about how we will probably not get refined pointing.
The IR pointer on the wiimote was the single best innovation for core gaming.
It ENHANCED existing genres.
WES playmakers and other sports games, FPS on consoles, the unexplored console RTSs, adventure games, arcade style rail shooters, etc.
EatChildren, I think this was well said. I was hoping their new system would refine the remote as I think that has more room to grow in the long run. The WiiPad is nothing but a regular controller with a screen in the middle. It really just doesn't do anything for me. Which is why I hope (and pray) that they pack in a remote and nunchuck in the box. It would be crazy for them to waste all that time trying to make the remote and nunchuck actual legitimate gaming inputs only to thrash them to the ground the next generation. This whole thing with the WiiPad seems like pandering to a group of people who won't change anyway.
abstract alien
Member
The soccer controls for this thing were so damn great. I'm not even into sports games and bought one solely off the fact that it felt so natural while actually being superior to the tried and true.
abstract alien
Member
Which genres? Outside of fighting(which is a hard headed genre to begin with), I can't think of a single one.
ADANIEL1960
Neo Member
With the Wii, Nintendo said that the market did not have enough HD Tvs to warrant the HD console. Now the majority of tv screens are HD averaging 46inchs and 1080P res capable,
Nintendo is coming out with HD Wii with possibility of a display 1080P@ 30fps or better with programable shaders.
Why does it need a GPU better than this when the majority of people, can't see the difference between Crysis2 on a good pC and an Xb360?
Wouldn't it be better to save the money and make it more accessible.
Hell most people sit further away from their Tv than 5 feet and are gonna struggle to see the difference between 720P and 1080P anyway.
I guess the question is when is something graphically good enough and the only things that matter are art style, development time and the way you play the game ?
Nintendo is coming out with HD Wii with possibility of a display 1080P@ 30fps or better with programable shaders.
Why does it need a GPU better than this when the majority of people, can't see the difference between Crysis2 on a good pC and an Xb360?
Wouldn't it be better to save the money and make it more accessible.
Hell most people sit further away from their Tv than 5 feet and are gonna struggle to see the difference between 720P and 1080P anyway.
I guess the question is when is something graphically good enough and the only things that matter are art style, development time and the way you play the game ?
Ultimately it will be up to the 3rd parties. So the question is, are they going to want to show off on the most powerful system available (for a year or two), or will they just say "fuck it, it's Nintendo. Why even bother?" That goes for the graphics as well as the control options and game mechanics. Guess we'll find out at E3.
jump_button
Banned
I hope they some Wii mote games I hope they don't just forget it
Freezie KO
Banned
It's a completely legitimate input. It just needs a bit of evolution. You can add in a few "bean" buttons around the A button on the remote. Maybe even add an analog stick.
Then you can use the Wiimote and nunchuk for practically any game. And you retain the option to use godly pointer controls or even motion+ if you want.
Call of Duty played best with the remote this gen, and that was the biggest third-party franchise in gaming.
abstract alien
Member
I've always wanted Nintendo to just tell them to either make a quality game or don't bother coming on our side of the fence, but I know that would be a terrible business move(and a great thread on gaf if it actually happened).
boiled goose
good with gravy
i agree with your basic thoughts on this, but there are a few changes that could make the wiimote suitable for any genre.
The two things that the wiiremote lacks are a second stick and some buttons, other than that it is just a different for factor.
If they wanted to add these things while maintaining the simplicity of the wiimote you can envision all these extra buttons and whatnot added onto a nunchuck + shell of sorts.
The fact that your hands can be separated with the wiimote nuncuck combo is certainly underrated. It is incredibly comfortable.
Edit: beaten
TheCongressman1
Member
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