The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
But everyone uses Facebook, not just mouth-breathing basement dwellers, and it would be uncomfortable to recognize that perhaps we're all developing unhealthy habits.
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CNN: How video games and porn are ruining a generation
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But everyone uses Facebook, not just mouth-breathing basement dwellers, and it would be uncomfortable to recognize that perhaps we're all developing unhealthy habits.
DanielJr82
Member
I'd feel pretty safe in my assumption that more people use pornography than Facebook.
*Single, unmarried women. Points to the issue of parental leave.
DimmuBurgerKing
Member
How touch and motion control ruined a generation: they've forgotten about buttons
The article is true. We're becoming an instant-gratification, anti-social, objectifying society. Many of us have forgotten how to interact with other human beings and have hidden under the guise that we're misunderstood and that our individuality should be entirely tolerated without correction.
bonesmccoy
Banned
So the journo starts by talking about Anders Brevik and some guy named Adam who was addicted to porn, as if these are the results we're about to have revealed to us later in the article. Yet when we get to the actual researcher, he talks about long-term manifestations of these problems, and specifically pin points non-violent (risk averse) behaviour. Interesting research, shitty article.
edit:
Part of society, not all of it. I recall reading recently that basically the college educated segment of the US population wasn't suffering the same kind of social breakdown the non-college educated segment is, at least in terms of the manifestations I mentioned above.
edit:
Part of society, not all of it. I recall reading recently that basically the college educated segment of the US population wasn't suffering the same kind of social breakdown the non-college educated segment is, at least in terms of the manifestations I mentioned above.
They must be playing Mortal Kombat Trilogy.
DanielJr82
Member
There's more of those too, lol.
Yep, I'll agree with that. As a public school teacher myself, I'm seeing a lot more ADD kids today than ever before. I've seen some of my fellow teachers with stacks (STACKS!) of IEP papers and accommodations, it's crazy.
AuthenticM
Member
I cannot wait for the day when every baby boomer and all of the old generation will not be of this world anymore. It will be a delight.
cr_blah_blah
Member
I just finished watching a comics documentary about how during the 50s they began censoring and outlawing horror comic books because of the presumed effect on children because it made them have feelings that weren't complacent. They'd ask a child how a comic made them feel and they'd say anxious, nervous, or tense then "experts" would point to that as a reason to ban and burn them. How children would sit around for hours reading these comics and supposedly it was going to create these aggressive, emotionally unstable children that would randomly get up and stab a knife into a tree repeately (PSA imagery).
There were claims kids were wasting 3-10 hours of their day reading the scary filth instead of being productive and reading books to help them grow as people.
That was the baby boomer generation.
The biggest issue here is the sweeping judgement of a gender based on extreme situations. The issue of "obsession is bad and could have negative consequences" is such common sense there would be no point in even making an article. I'm not even sure what there is to argue about the article since it's just citing particular circumstances and how they could theoretically damage people who are already emotionally unstable, but we know that, and extrapolating that to mean it could happen to a generation of a gender is asinine at best considering the long running list of mediums that will be the next downfall.
I have a bigger problem with people not staying off their phones for an hour so we can talk and eat lunch but I don't blame video games, porn, or guys for that. I'm not denying there's an issue but I think they're focusing on the wrong thing.
There were claims kids were wasting 3-10 hours of their day reading the scary filth instead of being productive and reading books to help them grow as people.
That was the baby boomer generation.
The biggest issue here is the sweeping judgement of a gender based on extreme situations. The issue of "obsession is bad and could have negative consequences" is such common sense there would be no point in even making an article. I'm not even sure what there is to argue about the article since it's just citing particular circumstances and how they could theoretically damage people who are already emotionally unstable, but we know that, and extrapolating that to mean it could happen to a generation of a gender is asinine at best considering the long running list of mediums that will be the next downfall.
I have a bigger problem with people not staying off their phones for an hour so we can talk and eat lunch but I don't blame video games, porn, or guys for that. I'm not denying there's an issue but I think they're focusing on the wrong thing.
Right. So is the glass ceiling being actually being torn down or is the larger pool of single, unmarried women equalizing wages? This article is simply taking a negative view of our generational tendencies. It's not all doom and gloom, and there isn't much science to be found in the words.
Fantastical
Death Prophet
Remember when rock and roll ruined an entire generation all those years ago. Why didn't we learn?
Could GAF shut up about the fucking analog sticks and actually discuss the article? It looks dumb when people completely disregard something and just make jokes about it.
The article does make a point or two, but ruining a generation? Come on now.
The article does make a point or two, but ruining a generation? Come on now.
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
Articles will often use ridiculous hyperbole in their titles to attract attention (it has certainly worked on GAF). Still, the article here makes some good points. Video games and porn do condition the brain to constant stimulation. When you put boys in a boring, dry environment (e.g. a classroom), it's simply more difficult for them to succeed. Obviously it's not ruining a generation as the article may claim, but it is having an effect. Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
I find it increasingly hard not to believe that "we're entertaining ourselves to death" was not on to something. But then, so was Brave New World.
But this change in metaphysical world view (as equally put forward in "the infantile consumer") is caused by how certain cultural values that became viable with the early babyboomers play out in the larger, now global, scheme of things, mostly the capitalist system and the removal of the checks / seals that kept it from spiraling out of control.
Either way, video games might be the most visual representation of some of these notions (mainly the counter cultural value of individuality), and probably have an independent effect of their own, but on the whole, are not the bigger source to our problems.
I'm not saying they are good, but if they have to go, so should a lot of other things.
ScreenSplitter
Member
What a load of old shit.
I suggest we all play Mario and masturbate at the same time as a form of protest. So... just carry on as usual gents.
I suggest we all play Mario and masturbate at the same time as a form of protest. So... just carry on as usual gents.
It means that guys are being projected the wrong image of what are ideal qualities in a male. Relationships today don't last as long and are thought up as disposable because they don't have the patience and self-restraint to hold off from engaging in sex until they're ready to make a real commitment. They want to rush into things and devalue that girl and henceforth look towards the next person to treat them right. Love shouldn't be rushed.
Trusting science articles is stupid. They are surface level readings that often report the exact opposite of what research shows. Don't know if this is the case here, but a simple reading of the article isn't going to get you that answer. So for now until I read into this a lot more there isn't much I can say. On the surface though I am inherently skeptical of anything that is anti-porn/sex or criticizes harmless social norms based on tradition. Especially when it comes to gender roles.
They're probably in awe at Killer Instinct Gold.
AuthenticM
Member
Yet both are very, very stupid.
That fake Ted discussion resulted in an extremely hilarious (in a pathetic sort of way) Off Topic thread. You should go check it out.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
It's good to point out the positive effects of video games, but this doesn't in any way contradict the idea that there are negative effects.
...and here we have the summary of the effects of everything ever created, invented, born, built, made, or thought up: it has good effects and bad effects. The folks at CNN must really be onto something there.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
I got my fire & pitchfork, yeehaw', who we lambastin'?
Also look over there at those things we can demonize, not the things that are affecting us every fucking day and are the real culprits
Ah a University of Phoenix Alumni, /welcome
Age and look on their faces plus the position of their hands... It's Pokemon Stadium man.
Also, on the article. Zimbardo's Standford prison experiment was groundbreaking stuff for its time.
If you're at all interested in constructions of human behaviour: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkmQZjZSjk4 the experiment was very well documented : )
also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment summarises the ordeal and is an interesting read.
and my own personal opinion: Zimbardo, whilst known for his infamous social experiments, often focuses on very specific and narrow facets when predicting outcomes. for instance, he completely looked over the fact that his prison experiment was immoral, and if not, illegal. In an interview he gave on the subject, he claimed he didn't even notice how immoral his experiment actually was until his wife (i believe?) pointed it out to him.
As a result of that, i find his outcomes and analysis of social issues difficult to trust entirely. He studies something that he seems slightly inept in is what i am trying to say.
Whilst I think there are good and bad points to new technologies, the good far outweigh the bad. If people are worried about social and learning impacts of said technology, perhaps education should be adjusted to better accomodate new tech.
tl;dr Zimbardo is a bit whacky although intelligent, take his social criticisms with a grain of salt
Trent Strong
Banned
This article makes no sense. The article claims that video game addicts, unlike drug addicts, are addicted to novelty. But video games are just the same stuff over and over and over again. There's no novelty in video games at all. I played Uncharted 3 followed by Mass Effect 3 followed by Gears 3...and they were basically all the same goddamned game. I don't think I'll ever play a third person shooter again. Because they're all the same. Novelty my ass.
The novelty thing is a hilarious point because it's basically describing how people's tastes mature as they consume art. When you read or watch movies or something like that for a long time you start to like "better" movies in terms of wanting new and unexpected experiences (Ideally, of course).
If I had to make my own guess, I'd say the problem is that video games in modern times are really into making everything about external rewards and rankings, which I feel has the potential to cripple our generation's ability to find happiness in life without numbers or medals or other people telling us how great we are. If the article was about that I'd be more interested. For anyone interested, here's a video about how this influences a lot of modern goods and services: Edit Wrong video. I'll fix it when I find it.
If I had to make my own guess, I'd say the problem is that video games in modern times are really into making everything about external rewards and rankings, which I feel has the potential to cripple our generation's ability to find happiness in life without numbers or medals or other people telling us how great we are. If the article was about that I'd be more interested. For anyone interested, here's a video about how this influences a lot of modern goods and services: Edit Wrong video. I'll fix it when I find it.
A couple points:
- Girls and boys learn differently, and the current school curriculum was adjusted some time ago to help girls catch up to boys. Part of this problem can be solved by either teaching them in a way they respond better to, or teaching in separate classes (I prefer the former).
- Boys brains have always been wired this way (to seek out rewards), and while I dont doubt the availability to super stimulants is pushing it further than its ever been, boys are wired for stimulation and activity in a way that will exist no matter how much porn or how many video games are in the world. A lot of its hard coded in genetics from years of evolution, something you cant just train away.
- Facebook and texting is doing a lot of the same things (triggering reward centers) in both genders, so it will interesting to see this evolve in the years to come, and how much of it crosses gender lines.
Those things said, I certainly agree that this is something we need to adress as a culture. As someone who grew up playing video games (and yes, I've probably put in well over that mythical 10,000 hours) I find it hard to care about menial things when I can get lost in an activity that interests me and rewards me on the same level as video games do.
Have they made me more violent? Absolutely not. Do I still no how to talk to people? Absolutely, because my parents and I have made sure that I'm not playing video games 24/7 my whole life. Do I no longer know how to "make love"? I find that suggestion insulting.
- Girls and boys learn differently, and the current school curriculum was adjusted some time ago to help girls catch up to boys. Part of this problem can be solved by either teaching them in a way they respond better to, or teaching in separate classes (I prefer the former).
- Boys brains have always been wired this way (to seek out rewards), and while I dont doubt the availability to super stimulants is pushing it further than its ever been, boys are wired for stimulation and activity in a way that will exist no matter how much porn or how many video games are in the world. A lot of its hard coded in genetics from years of evolution, something you cant just train away.
- Facebook and texting is doing a lot of the same things (triggering reward centers) in both genders, so it will interesting to see this evolve in the years to come, and how much of it crosses gender lines.
Those things said, I certainly agree that this is something we need to adress as a culture. As someone who grew up playing video games (and yes, I've probably put in well over that mythical 10,000 hours) I find it hard to care about menial things when I can get lost in an activity that interests me and rewards me on the same level as video games do.
Have they made me more violent? Absolutely not. Do I still no how to talk to people? Absolutely, because my parents and I have made sure that I'm not playing video games 24/7 my whole life. Do I no longer know how to "make love"? I find that suggestion insulting.
Sye d'Burns
Member
Indeed.
The clear sensationalism of CNN aside I don't think it's wise (in fact, it's incredibly stupid) to dismiss the ideas of people like Zimbardo or Zygmunt Bauman just because they say things that you don't want to hear. It makes you just as myopic as people like Jack Thompson.
Poimandres
Member
Technology in general is changing society. I would say that attention spans are probably shorter than ever before, and we are becoming far lazier.
But at the same time, young people are likely more aware/informed about a wider range of things than any other time in human history.
The ultimate effects of technology on the human race will be very interesting to study one day, when we have a little more perspective. Vidja games are a contributing factor, but technology itself is a much larger issue.
But at the same time, young people are likely more aware/informed about a wider range of things than any other time in human history.
The ultimate effects of technology on the human race will be very interesting to study one day, when we have a little more perspective. Vidja games are a contributing factor, but technology itself is a much larger issue.
Karsticles
Member
To me, attention span was made "short" the day we stopped memorizing entire epic tales to recount to our children and instead learned how to read. Historically, nothing has done more damage to long-term memory and attention span than the incorporation of reading into society. Plato knew this.
Also, I don't follow how videogames = instant gratification. Maybe our dear professor just assumes all games are like Call of Duty, but most of my games are RPGs. They take a good amount of thinking, a lot of planning and foresight, and I stick to one goal for over a hundred hours to accomplish it. When I was a raid leader in World of Warcraft, my guild would spent 3-4 hours three times a week practicing to down new content. I'll have my MA in a week and have worked as a legislative office manager, and leading those raids was still the most challenging thing I've done in my life. Anyone who has done serious raiding in World of Warcraft, or any other MMO, absolutely has to laugh at the idea of "instant gratification" being an inherent component of videogames. That stuff takes a lot of hard work. Heck, people even grind out boring, repetitive tasks over and over again just for some reward. That sounds a lot like the kinds of things we're supposedly losing the capacity for.
I'm not a socialist, or a Marxist, but I think people should take a look at the things Karl Marx had to say about labor. People are becoming less interested in living their lives because it doesn't feel like their life anymore. Most people are slaving away at some thankless job without any other opportunity. So heck, why not go to a world where you get to be a free creature? Plenty of people I know play World of Warcraft purely for community, because as a team player in a guild they are someone important. More importantly, your labor is your own and something you can be proud of. You can look at your character and say "this is what I made". How many jobs today can say let someone say that?
That's very true, but to what degree is it videogames/porn? I don't follow why these are the culprit and not, say, TV, iPods, etc. No one talks walking around because they're all listening to music. No one talks sitting down unless it's about something on TV. I think there's absolutely something to the trend you're talking about, but videogames and porn are just another formulation of these things.
Also, I don't follow how videogames = instant gratification. Maybe our dear professor just assumes all games are like Call of Duty, but most of my games are RPGs. They take a good amount of thinking, a lot of planning and foresight, and I stick to one goal for over a hundred hours to accomplish it. When I was a raid leader in World of Warcraft, my guild would spent 3-4 hours three times a week practicing to down new content. I'll have my MA in a week and have worked as a legislative office manager, and leading those raids was still the most challenging thing I've done in my life. Anyone who has done serious raiding in World of Warcraft, or any other MMO, absolutely has to laugh at the idea of "instant gratification" being an inherent component of videogames. That stuff takes a lot of hard work. Heck, people even grind out boring, repetitive tasks over and over again just for some reward. That sounds a lot like the kinds of things we're supposedly losing the capacity for.
I'm not a socialist, or a Marxist, but I think people should take a look at the things Karl Marx had to say about labor. People are becoming less interested in living their lives because it doesn't feel like their life anymore. Most people are slaving away at some thankless job without any other opportunity. So heck, why not go to a world where you get to be a free creature? Plenty of people I know play World of Warcraft purely for community, because as a team player in a guild they are someone important. More importantly, your labor is your own and something you can be proud of. You can look at your character and say "this is what I made". How many jobs today can say let someone say that?
What's an IEP paper?
Why not view classrooms as the problem? I was identified as a gifted student from a young age, and the only reason I only did "okay" through school was that I was constantly bored. Maybe my brain is just a little too good to sit in a chair for 3 hours straight and listen to someone else talk. Maybe my brain wants to do things, be involved, create. There's a fine line between teaching patience, and teaching boredom. I have a lot of patience, but I really dislike being bored. I can think about my next move in a chess game for half an hour, easy. But if you want me to listen to someone else lecture on a minute point that I already understand because I did the reading for today, or you want me to practice homework problems that I already know how to do for two hours after school, you've lost my interest. Aren't there ways we can have learning environments that are active? I'm not trying to attack you, I'm just talking with you about this - I have a hunch that you might agree with me.
Why is it insulting?
You are watching things from too high level. Videogames most definitely are all about instant gratification. Every mechanic, audiovisual feedback and action is designed that way. If you delve inside a game too deeply, then for sure some of those aspects become "work", but it doesn't remove the basic structure of a game.
MoGamesXNA
Unconfirmed Member
Wow. That cracked me up. That's absolutely hilarious.
Thanks for telling us why.
MoGamesXNA
Unconfirmed Member
I would have but I was too busy building my romantic relationship gradually and subtly.
Actually, apologies for the (almost) troll post. I didn't realise that there'd be a serious discussion regarding the article in here. I find it hard to take these kinds of backhanded insults from that generation seriously.
Video games, cell phones, Facebook, Twitter, pornography, the Internet in general, etc. are contributing to immense cultural decline in the United States and elsewhere in the world. That is not to say that these things can not be used responsibly, but they represent a significant part of what is ailing modern society.
ClosingADoor
Member
How is that different from the complaints about books, radio, film and tv? And how do you measure a 'cultural decline' as if culture is some objective thing?
Everything can be harmful if used in the wrong way. The guy spending 24/7 playing games isn't healthy, but the kid failing in school because he only plays soccer the whole day is also bad.
And how does that change anything? Most people can play sports and stay perfectly normal -- there's an increasing number of people who can't say the same about their addiction to technology.
Too many people here are trying to rationalize away the fact that they have an unhealthy addiction to these things. I'm fairly guilty of this as well.
ClosingADoor
Member
It doesn't change anything. It just that technology isn't some special thing that is worse then other media or addictions. The only thing different is that it is new and people are still getting used to it and are exploring the possibilities (be it for good or bad).
And I still don't get why people blame a 'cultural decline' to the internet, games, porn, etc. You can't measure something like that. Maybe you feel the world is in worse shape because of it, but plenty of people have a different opinion. Culture isn't something you can measure, since it is always changing.
Scofield94941
Member
if you like porn and video games...watch and play them. It is your life. Do what you like when you like. Addiction can come from anything. If youre addicted and don't want to be then seek help but most people can control how much porn they watch and how many hours they play games. People need to stop worrying about sex and boobies being shown in the US and start thinking about obesity.
I'd rather be addicted to porn and videogames then food
I'd rather be addicted to porn and videogames then food