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CNN: How video games and porn are ruining a generation

Brak

Member
Video games, cell phones, Facebook, Twitter, pornography, the Internet in general, etc. are contributing to immense cultural decline in the United States and elsewhere in the world. That is not to say that these things can not be used responsibly, but they represent a significant part of what is ailing modern society.
wtf does this even mean? cultural decline? There are more people making more art than at any period in the history of the world. The democratization and decentralization of distribution has allowed anyone to produce art and have it seen on a worldwide basis. People are using technology in wonderful, brilliant ways. That some tiny percentage of the population is not capable of using technology responsibly is not an argument for the demonization of these tools.

Also, let's ban cars.
 

subversus

I've done nothing with my life except eat and fap
I have a lot of respect to Zimbardi. Stanford Experiment is nothing to sniff at. And judging from "no fap" GAF thread cutting down on porn (and I mean porn in particular, not sex) affects people's lifes in a very positive way.

But if you take anything to extreme this stuff will destroy you. You don't need to conduct a research and write a book to understand such simple stuff. It goes for everything.
 

Hari Seldon

Member
Video games, cell phones, Facebook, Twitter, pornography, the Internet in general, etc. are contributing to immense cultural decline in the United States and elsewhere in the world. That is not to say that these things can not be used responsibly, but they represent a significant part of what is ailing modern society.

In what period of history was the culture "normal" that we have declined from?
 

SMT

this show is not Breaking Bad why is it not Breaking Bad? it should be Breaking Bad dammit Breaking Bad
Zimbardo is spot-on, like he usually is. Now get back into your cell, so I can abuse you!
 

Shikamaru Ninja

任天堂 の 忍者
Video Games are absolutely not ruining a generation. Not anymore than any entertainment or artistic medium.

Porn / Smartphones / Facebook / Texting / Random Internet Garbage: Absolutely ruining people. It is disgusting some of the things people do now. I can't imagine the hell teachers go through in classrooms with kids on facebook/texting 24/7.
 
Video games, cell phones, Facebook, Twitter, pornography, the Internet in general, etc. are contributing to immense cultural decline in the United States and elsewhere in the world. That is not to say that these things can not be used responsibly, but they represent a significant part of what is ailing modern society.

"immense cultural decline" ya i take issue with this, I agree with what you are saying, just not how you are saying it. Cultural "change" does not equal decline. People said the same thing in every major cultural or societal change in history, change is inevitable. I don't think demonizing it is really the best thing to do...That being said addiction is indeed horrible. It is slavery in every sense of the word. It is absolute loss of freedom. We just need to realize that change is inevitable and as you said "use these things responsibly" I would say that goes for all this except Porn..sorry but I have serious issue with Porn, I equate it with Drugs Alcohol...but I know i'm in the minority here I am after all a pious person.
 

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
And how does that change anything? Most people can play sports and stay perfectly normal -- there's an increasing number of people who can't say the same about their addiction to technology.

Too many people here are trying to rationalize away the fact that they have an unhealthy addiction to these things. I'm fairly guilty of this as well.

What about legions of crazy sports fans, arenas where the crowds will throw rocks at the players or rush the field, the famously mocked redneck culture in the US that camps out at every sportin' event, crazy fans who flood city streets and riot when their team wins?

The difference is that sports are now 'old' and taken for granted, so nobody really raises an eyebrow at the stupid stuff in culture that sports is steeped in. And there's a ton of stupid there.

Every time something new comes along and people act dumb with it, that new thing is heralded as the destruction of civilization, relative to some supposed 'higher' state it was just ate and has now declined from. Every single time.

What really happens, is that people's behavior changes, and if there's a negative aspect to it that's new, it's easier to become annoyed at it because one is not already acclimated to it. And that's when the change in behavior is really negative. People tend to react with resistance to ANY significant deviation even if, in the long run, it turns out to be an improvement. That's how small a human being is, and how much a creature of habit it is.

Hell, it's biological. Evolutionary. A change in the environment, a shift in the group behavior of the tribe, represents a threat. Something is wrong. We're all gonna die! Grab a club and run climb the nearest tree!

This thread reminds me of the statistics that show, contrary to extremely entrenched popular belief, more people read today than sixty years ago.

What social media, the internet, et all have really done, is merely expose people to the mass of humanity. You're seeing for the first time how many people actually disagree with you, how many people are actually dumb, and how small your opinion is. And it's scary. It's not surprising it's causing shock and denial, and even making people say "it's ruining everything! Society is in decline!" No, for the most part you're just becoming aware of what's out there.

Which isn't to say that many people are not acting stupid in new ways. But rather than assume there's a net increase in stupidity or a general "decline", it's more rational to assume that as with everything, people who were given to be dumb are just being handed new ways in which to express themselves.

If Facebook didn't exist, do people actually think those who act like idiots on it would be smarter people today? That they wouldn't be making the same dumb social choices, just in a smaller and more local pool? Perhaps, an argument could be built about new technologies enabling the great fried stupid to spread further, but that seems specious. In the end, perspectives are merely shifting and people are becoming aware of things that make them uncomfortable.

It was a mother who remarked on that in relation to video games once. It was observed that in the supposed good old days, some never-existed 1950s Beaverville, the kids ran out into the park and played cowboys and indians... and were really violent little shits about it. They mimed getting scalped, stabbing one another, writhed around on the ground in exaggerated death throes, because it was exciting. But people were conditioned to not pay attention to such things. It was in a context assumed to be irrelevant, or at least harmless. Fast forward to Little Jimmy playing a shooter on his game console, and now a parent walks in and sees this realistically rendered battlefield and suddenly freaks out because they see what Little Jimmy was imagining in his head all along, and they're disturbed. So they blame it on a video game and take the game away and go cry to their friend about how those evil video games are corrupting the youth.

"But what about all the 12 year olds on Xbox Live who yell homophobic slurs! Surely that's a decline!"

Where did the homophobic slurs come from? Where did those darling children learn them? ... from video games?

No, don't think so. They're just repeating what they've learned from culture and shit like that far predates the modern era.

Funny enough, seems like it comes back around to parenting. Kids soak up what their parents do and say, not just their peers.

I've oft wondered, how many parents - though they'll deny it to the bitter end - actually make shallow, retarded comments about other people that the kids pick up and repeat. How many mothers talk about how everyone is fat and ugly, then act shocked with their daughters go to school and tease and taunt the chubby girls. How many fathers actually grumble about the 'fairy boys' and gays or foreigners and then step back into the shadows when their sons go out and help contribute to teenagers spewing shit at school or on the Internet.

Any decline in culture starts with people. Not with the tools the people use or have available. And in a lot of cases, there never was truly a 'better' culture to begin with. Only the illusion, the narrative, the story of such. Today, right now, we probably live in as a whole the most enlightened global culture in human history. All that has decayed, on the whole, is a worn social facade over various problems that were already there, and always have been there.
 
/\/\/\/\ Agree with this. Some people are just stupid and now we have more visible ways of seeing stupid people.

The biggest issue here is the sweeping judgement of a gender based on extreme situations. The issue of "obsession is bad and could have negative consequences" is such common sense there would be no point in even making an article. I'm not even sure what there is to argue about the article since it's just citing particular circumstances and how they could theoretically damage people who are already emotionally unstable, but we know that, and extrapolating that to mean it could happen to a generation of a gender is asinine at best considering the long running list of mediums that will be the next downfall.

Very well put. It's like a Fox News broadcast IMO. "Young people ... etc ... this generation ... etc ... " type journalism is always pandering to a specific audience.

Video Games are absolutely not ruining a generation. Not anymore than any entertainment or artistic medium.

Porn / Smartphones / Facebook / Texting / Random Internet Garbage: Absolutely ruining people. It is disgusting some of the things people do now. I can't imagine the hell teachers go through in classrooms with kids on facebook/texting 24/7.

I don't agree with your hypothesis of those things causing the ruination of society, in the middle ages it was "science" that was ruining people and anybody who thought outside the box was ostracized. BUT, I do agree with the troubles teachers have. Their classroom has grown larger, their kids have more ways to disrupt, their salary has declined (in relation) and the parents are lazy pieces of shit that expect the public school system to raise them (sweeping generalization, I know ... but with a 6 year old I see some of the parents of some of these children and it's crazy what they let them do).
 

neoemonk

Member
Serious question. What does "ruining a generation" actually entail? They won't procreate? Society will crumble into ruins? What? It seems so general of a term that it's almost nonsensical to me.
 

Mihos

Gold Member
Nothing, and I mean nothing, has screwed up the perception of an entire generation more than a ratings based 24 hour news cycle.

They will ramp up the most trivial crap to crisis level if they think it will keep you watching after the break.
 

Jackl

Member
This just in.

Kids are highly distracted by menial things.


The internet and such have certainly eatten up much of the productive time and devalued social contact. No doubt. But I challenge the thought this is a new trend. It's not like from the 60s onward people haven't invested highly in pointless timesinks of television, sports, porn(Was a major industry before the 90s IMAGINE THAT), drugs, and other escapisms.

And no the past 50 years we're not more "moral" don't make me bring up crime and psychological disorder statistics along with studies on how under diagnosed many were.
 
It may not be a cultural decline, but our obesity rates are in the shitter and I'm sure our "cool tech" stuff ain't helping:

09Jy9.gif
 

jmdajr

Member
Seems to me that all the "smart" people I knew that grew up before the "internetz" didn't turn out to be any dumber once it arrived. They all turned out successful. A lot of dumb people I knew before the internet are well... still dumb after it's inception. Now more people just know! I don't agree that any of this tech makes you any dumber/lazier/meaner etc. It just puts whoever you are out there. Douche in real life? Douche on facebook. Polite and courteous in real life, same on facebook. Sure some people are two faced but overall that's how I see it. The inherent core of the person is what matters.
 
It may not be a cultural decline, but our obesity rates are the shitter and I'm sure our "cool tech" stuff ain't helping:

If you do a little reading you'll find that children and women in the 1950's were actually more prone to do less exercise, especially women. Exercise wasn't 'ladylike' and they were, for the most part, stay at home moms. Even in relation there are more sports and activities for people to take part of due to the mixing of cultures. Soccer wasn't an option when I was in grade school.

While I don't discount it for some of the reason, I imagine it's a very small percentage. It's processed foods and the high intake of 'junk' calories that attributes to obesity. Today's small was yesterdays large. There are a few great books on this subject such as Good Calories, Bad Calories and some older studies. If you want to read a terrible writer with some great insight and anecdotal evidence try Wheat Belly.

But if you think about it, was 'dad' really more active back then? Were kids? It's not like if they went outside they ran marathons. But I think this goes back to parenting in general. Totinos Pizza isn't dinner. Snickers on Saturdays isn't a 'reward'. I have an Xbox with Kinect, Wii, PC, Hulu+, Netflix, BR's, and other distractions but our 7 year old gets very minimal time with it. I play them more than he does.
 

jmdajr

Member
The data is out there. We know why we get fat, but people just ignore it. You can't simply blame all the desk/couch activities for making people obese. You can't hold McDonald's responsible. You have the choice of what to put in your mouth and how much time to spend doing sedative activities (not counting work/school/etc.). I know addictions DO exist, but I refuse to believe the average person simply can't help themselves.
 

genjiZERO

Member
I think it's worse that modern society socialises girls to be materialistic bitches concerned with vanity, selfishness and superficiality. Don't believe me watch anything on the Disney Channel.
 
So, what if I play 95% non-violent games and watch 70s and 80s TV shows with my kids because many of the current shows are too stupid and scatterbrained?

I listen to music in the car, and use headphones about half of the time at work. If I'm walking, I'm taking in whatever is around me, looking at people, etc.

I'll be okay, right?

And technology can only be blamed for the lack of physical activities to a point. There's really no difference between sitting in a chair reading a newspaper vs. reading news on a tablet. DVR simply opens up your schedule to fit in other things, and programming the VCR certainly wasn't more active - just a pain.

My kids talking to their grandparents on Facetime is pretty much like using the phone, except they can see each other.

I mean, I see some of the points the article's trying to make - but it's possible to use this stuff without being "ruined" by it.


I think it's worse that modern society socialises girls to be materialistic bitches concerned with vanity, selfishness and superficiality. Don't believe me watch anything on the Disney Channel.

And THIS is why we watch old shows on The Hub and stopped letting our kids watch most of the stuff on Disney channel (we do watch the Avengers cartoon).
 

jman2050

Member
How is that different from the complaints about books, radio, film and tv? And how do you measure a 'cultural decline' as if culture is some objective thing?

If you want to be cynical, those things can be similarly representative of "cultural decline", the stuff we have now are just logical extensions of those.

Of course, in the end, it's not totally black and white either way.
 
You are watching things from too high level. Videogames most definitely are all about instant gratification. Every mechanic, audiovisual feedback and action is designed that way. If you delve inside a game too deeply, then for sure some of those aspects become "work", but it doesn't remove the basic structure of a game.
Sure, they have the same kind of audiovisual splendor that, say, me playing with a basketball does. It has a nice physics engine, it makes a neat "pomp!" noise when I do it, etc. Why is Basketball not shameful instant gratification (I just threw it in the net again and got two more points!), but jumping on a goomba's head in Mario is?

It may not be a cultural decline, but our obesity rates are in the shitter and I'm sure our "cool tech" stuff ain't helping:
A lot of it is change in eating habits.
 

jmdajr

Member
Sure, they have the same kind of audiovisual splendor that, say, me playing with a basketball does. It has a nice physics engine, it makes a neat "pomp!" noise when I do it, etc. Why is Basketball not shameful instant gratification (I just threw it in the net again and got two more points!), but jumping on a goomba's head in Mario is?
A lot of it is change in eating habits.

Hmmm interesting. Never thought of the sports similarities. We are always trying to compare them more to interactive movies and tv. But makes sense. You have a set of rules and whenever you 'score", you definitely feel that satisfaction. When you fail, you feel the disappointed. Hmm..videogames can do just about anything huh! That's why they are awesome :)

videoGAME - Fuck..I often just take that word for granted.
 

Jackl

Member
A lot of it is change in eating habits.


A big one is how much of a GOGOGOGOGO society we've become. It isn't just what we eat, but how often and how much.

Few people take time for a real breakfast and lunch. Then nab fast food for a oversized dinner and sleep after they eat. Thats pretty much the worse thing you can do.
 

jmdajr

Member
A big one is how much of a GOGOGOGOGO society we've become. It isn't just what we eat, but how often and how much.

Few people take time for a real breakfast and lunch. Then nab fast food for a oversized dinner and sleep after they eat. Thats pretty much the worse thing you can do.

Also lots of driving and less walking. Heck, it's not like you have to hunt for your food these days. Still like I said, the knowledge is out there. People choose to ignore it.
 

jman2050

Member
The data is out there. We know why we get fat, but people just ignore it. You can't simply blame all the desk/couch activities for making people obese. You can't hold McDonald's responsible. You have the choice of what to put in your mouth and how much time to spend doing sedative activities (not counting work/school/etc.). I know addictions DO exist, but I refuse to believe the average person simply can't help themselves.

This is a pretty naive viewpoint. Humans are social creatures, no matter how much some people try to convince others otherwise, and the fact is that much of the behavior and personality traits we identify oursleves with are formed and nurtured in no small part by the environment we live in and with out interactions with others. It's not about trying to assign responsibility to someone or something, it's about recognizing that external factors, whether it's your friends wanting to sit down and play Call of Duty rather than go outside and play basketball, McDonalds bombarding advertising channels with their products and subtly influencing your own desires, having to keep up with people you know on Facebook, and yes, continued consumption of outside stimuli that make you and your brain feel good, can lead to what may be considered to be undesirable behavior. We may be masters of our own body, but that's not going to stop our body from doing its damndest to get what it wants.
 
Pretty lame study. The reason violence is on the decline is due to various amount of factors such as the nation cleaning up its cities, recognizing and treating people with anger issues, declining in domestic, kids being preoccupied with fucking off (facebook, netflix, and yes videogames, etc).

Its been proven time and time again that videogames are in fact linked to aggression. Now whether or not this aggression leads to people killing others is another topic.

It's been "proven"? No, it hasn't been proven. Videogames are linked to aggression in the exact same way that playing sports, playing board games, or even watching activities like that are linked to aggression. Competitive behavior spurs a reaction in people. Videogames are not special in this regard.

And the "pretty lame study" is much, much better than the swill in the OP.
 

conman

Member
It may not be a cultural decline, but our obesity rates are in the shitter and I'm sure our "cool tech" stuff ain't helping:

09Jy9.gif
Almost totally irrelevant. Obesity rates are a direct result of food politics. The combination of poverty and an abundance of unreasonably cheap, bad food is overwhelmingly the determining factor. Very little to do with tech/TV use.
 

genjiZERO

Member
And THIS is why we watch old shows on The Hub and stopped letting our kids watch most of the stuff on Disney channel (we do watch the Avengers cartoon).

For this alone you are a great parent.

The one where they live in the hotel... that's the worst show I've ever seen....
 

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
It may not be a cultural decline, but our obesity rates are in the shitter and I'm sure our "cool tech" stuff ain't helping:

09Jy9.gif

It drives me nuts when people blame outside forces for obesity rates.

People are fucking lazy. I play tons of video games, but I never forget to work out three times a week. Why? Because I have better things to do than blame others for how fat I am. No one has an excuse. Video games isn't an excuse for obesity. If you are fat, you are fat because you are lazy, and refuse to do something about it.

Almost totally irrelevant. Obesity rates are a direct result of food politics. The combination of poverty and an abundance of unreasonably cheap, bad food is overwhelmingly the determining factor. Very little to do with tech/TV use.

Yep. This is a large contributor.
 
if you like porn and video games...watch and play them. It is your life. Do what you like when you like. Addiction can come from anything. If youre addicted and don't want to be then seek help but most people can control how much porn they watch and how many hours they play games. People need to stop worrying about sex and boobies being shown in the US and start thinking about obesity.

I'd rather be addicted to porn and videogames then food

Spot on. There won't be a society to ruin if 43% of your populace (americuh freedom fries fuckyear) is morbidly obese and causing the country to go bankrupt due to health care costs spiraling iut of control. But maybe they are so obese due to video games and porn, who knows...
 
For this alone you are a great parent.

The one where they live in the hotel... that's the worst show I've ever seen....

It's truly awful.

The thing is, I really like a lot of what Disney offers. I like most of the animated features and I love the parks. But the Disney Channel programming is just downright terrible (again, outside of the Marvel cartoons).
 

djtiesto

is beloved, despite what anyone might say
CNN is clearly full of Sony fanboys, Nintendo 64 never did anyone harm.

Those blurry textures probably ruined a ton of peoples' eyesights!

As for this article... video games and porn? Well I will agree that both were better "back in the day" (
yum 70's bush!
) but it's never really been much of a problem for me. I've been able to balance game playing with socializing, holding down a job, maintaining relationships, etc.
 
How is that different from the complaints about books, radio, film and tv? And how do you measure a 'cultural decline' as if culture is some objective thing?

Well, if you must know, culture is usually measured by a set of indicators like cultural participation (easy to measure, just ask some questions about it), cultural capital (hard to measure: education is often used by approximation), and a few others.

"culture", much like "religiosity" or "spirituality" are far from immeasurable, although a lot of people seem to make that mistake, including physicists when they are asked about religious things. They suddenly seem to forget about models, measurement, theoretical importance, and so on, and go full on "you can't measure that!", which is a staggering display of ignorance on their part.

A sociologist would not be very interested in a normative concept of "cultural decline", but we would be (very) interested in how differences in culture(s) play out, how they develop, and what that signifies for our theories and models. Doing so requires measurements of some kind (like the -usually- quantitative ones just given), which also means getting some kind of average or sense of just 'how much' one thing or the other occurs. And while social scientists could not permit themselves to draw a normative conclusion about what that means inside the practice of science, they do tend to have strong opinions about it. Much like people here, who are not bound by science ethics, are free to declare some changes "good" or "bad", given that their views are based on the data somehow.

So, technically, neither measuring culture nor making normative statements about those measurements is highly problematic. Meaning that there is not much holding people back from being able to say: "we are in a state of cultural decline."
Just wanted to point that out for some reason.
 

foxdvd

Member
no matter how much fun Diablo or Call of Duty is...

no matter how exciting finding a video of 6 chicks going down on each other in a circle snake-style is...

Nothing beats a real live chick wiggling around on your face. I think the human race is safe...at least until they figure out how to come out with "Call of Duty 10:Diablo edition"
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
It's pretty easy to narrow down which game they are playing since about three games supported that hand position.
So it would have to be one of the few games that support both that particular hand position and multiplayer.

What could they conceivably be playing?!
 

zkylon

zkylewd
*ready popcorn for an inflow of raging porn addicts*
An inflow of raging porn addicts, now that's something gross to think about :p

There's a case to be had on video games taking irresponsible advantage of their positive reinforcement reward nature, and I'll agree it can be a dangerous supplement to people with an already introverted personality, but blaming videogames for the Norway massacre and everything wrong with society today is downright revisionism and twisting facts. Painful article to read.

Oh and by the way, Zimbardo's Stanford Prison Experiment was crazy as fuck but a hell more interesting and respectable than this. Maybe he watched too much porn and played too much Ocarina of Time for his own good..
 

WallJump

Banned
Darn kids and their rock music

Yet another media fluff piece designed to appeal to the panicked parent in all of us. Screw these guys.
 
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