If the end vision is that compelling, sure; but they will likely deliver an intermediate result first.
TLG's original goal may be too ambitious, or they may have made bad mistakes, or encountered some unfortunate events, or a combination of these.
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The Last Guardian development experiencing technical difficulties, says Sony
- Thread starter j0hnny_385
- Start date
If the end vision is that compelling, sure; but they will likely deliver an intermediate result first.
TLG's original goal may be too ambitious, or they may have made bad mistakes, or encountered some unfortunate events, or a combination of these.
Money is what they stand to lose. Spending more to sell less.
EDIT: That 'wonderbook' bit is what makes it art.
I don't see why so many think it will be a PS4 launch title. They're having a lot of trouble getting what they envison on the PS3 and the extra power of the next console will surely help, but it may not be a simple drag and drop where they can just finish. The PS3 is fairly oddball to make games on, and I would imagine they'll be put back a lot with it once again.
I'm thinking we will continue to not hear about it for a few years, it will be re-revealed atleast a year or two into the next console. Or it'll just never release, or be something completely different looking from what was previously shown.
I'm thinking we will continue to not hear about it for a few years, it will be re-revealed atleast a year or two into the next console. Or it'll just never release, or be something completely different looking from what was previously shown.
Mr.Squirrel
Tom
Seriously? The most unique and celebrated studio the world has ever seen? They made two games in a decade, which, IMO, were severely over hyped by people like you on the internet. That's it. You're taking your Ueda man crush to unprecedented heights.
They can take as much time as they need. I just want them to get it right.
Hearing that it's techincal issues that have been holding this back is actually extremely reassuring. Hopefully the help from the rest of SCEI can get this sorted without comprimising the original concept.
Do Team Ico share resources and staff with SCEJ?
Hearing that it's techincal issues that have been holding this back is actually extremely reassuring. Hopefully the help from the rest of SCEI can get this sorted without comprimising the original concept.
Do Team Ico share resources and staff with SCEJ?
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Questionable if they'd sell less. They could end up selling more as the PS3 userbase, large as it is, could get tired of the console and especially ignore a new and unknown property. Many publishers remarked that they felt the best time to release something new is the console launch time. That it has the best chance of selling a lot at that point.
Even if they think they'd sell less, it's a gamble worth taking, as it would put a huge spotlight on PS4, having such unique game so early. It would make the console a day one purchase for all Team Ico faithful too.
makingmusic476
Member
I guess they were aiming too high. Either that or they just suck.
I'll choose to believe the former. =(
Hm? SCEJ is the entirety of SCE's operation in Japan. Are you thinking of Sony's Japan Studio? Team ICO is a part of that studio, and there's where they draw their resources from, yes.
I'll choose to believe the former. =(
Hm? SCEJ is the entirety of SCE's operation in Japan. Are you thinking of Sony's Japan Studio? Team ICO is a part of that studio, and there's where they draw their resources from, yes.
I would ordinarily agree with the argument that it'll be released when it's done, but at this stage they've had twice the development time of Skyrim; more than the development time of three Uncharted games.
Shadow of the Colossus took something like five years to develop. The Last Guardian has had seven, with a larger team and more funding, and has shown no signs of being even nearly ready. This is not acceptable.
PigSpeakers
Member
More like, "The Last Straw" am I right, fellas?
Shtof
Member
Comparing two huge publishers with a small development team working within Sony is not fair. I might as well list all the games Sony released in the time frame, not that would bring our discussion no further.
Oh my. E3 gif of the year.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
If people even read topics, such as this very page (or the last if youre a 50 post per page peasant) you'd note that I did take the discussion further in a far fairer comparison. But that is perhaps too much to ask of you.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
I honestly don't mind if it's still 2 years away and still ends up being a PS3 game. (Provided the end result is fantastic.) Greatness takes time. What I freaking hate though is the lack of updates. Same for VersusXIII.
It's just a sad situation. A studio like Team Ico had such promise to deliver unique gaming experiences, and they were paired with the perfect parent company in Sony who would unwaveringly support them in those efforts, and they've pissed away all the good will they built up. How do you conceivably miss an entire generation of gaming?
First, this has already been edited and discussed in further detail. Secondly -- and more importantly -- you were the one who compared them in the first place. Not sure what you're looking for.
For the record, the total headcount for Valve is 250 people. That's smaller than many of the AAA development studios individually.
I think Valve are a little larger than that, it was discussed recently, I think someone said nearly three hundred staff went on the yearly holiday this year. But still, they have very productive, small teams. People see them as slack for various reasons, but it's anything but the case.
AranhaHunter
Banned
Team ICO is a joke, next year will make it 8 years since SOTC came out. Team ICO did not work on the HD Collection, AFAIK the port was done by Bluepoint. It's inexcusable for a developer, of any size, to go almost a decade without any game to show. Sony has lost a lot of money over this past decade, and probably a lot of money from this crappy team alone. If there are 40 employees/contractors at Team ICO with an average salary of 50k a year without any bonuses (being ultra conservative) equals 16 mil lost over 8 years. And that's not counting cost of employee benefits, rental, electricity, etc. Major drain
On top of that, they are very overrated, ICO is not a great game like GAF wants to make it seem. I played it from the collection and I say it's an ok game, passable but not great. There are countless other games that I would rate above it. SOTC though was a great game, simple and with great colossus battles.
So the way I see it, Team ICO made one ok game and one great game in 11 years. That's not a portfolio I would be really proud of.
I'm of the belief that Ueda only left Sony due to him being forced out by Sony in order to make compromises to finish this damn thing. As a contractor, they will still go to him for his creative mind and vision on the game, but that's where it ends. The coders and artists will have to get stuff done with what they have. And it's about damn time.
On top of that, they are very overrated, ICO is not a great game like GAF wants to make it seem. I played it from the collection and I say it's an ok game, passable but not great. There are countless other games that I would rate above it. SOTC though was a great game, simple and with great colossus battles.
So the way I see it, Team ICO made one ok game and one great game in 11 years. That's not a portfolio I would be really proud of.
I'm of the belief that Ueda only left Sony due to him being forced out by Sony in order to make compromises to finish this damn thing. As a contractor, they will still go to him for his creative mind and vision on the game, but that's where it ends. The coders and artists will have to get stuff done with what they have. And it's about damn time.
this is the best gif i have ever seen.
People like me? More like the gaming media and gamers in general. And I said "one of the most". Read.
Risk Breaker
Member
Team ICO threads are some of the worst on the internet :\
Haunted
Member
Still incredible.
thehillissilent
Member
They should just make it a PS4 launch title.
sublimit
Banned
Damn.Gif of the year.
Bayonetta and Vanquish were not made in America or Europe, my friend!!!!
I want TLG, but I'm beyond disappointment or hype or whatever. Hopefully it comes out one day and is good.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
how is this related to the last guardian?
krypt0nian
Banned
Next gen please. After the wii U fiasco, we need a hero we can look up to.
Made my goddamn day.
I'm also not surprised with Team Ico. Seriously, when it was due to be out before 2010, what did we say? It wont. 2012? What did we say? It won't. 2013? We all agreed that it would conceivably be out before 2013 (maybe some of us were joking and felt Team Ico could get it done quicker- I'm not a mind reader so how would I know) but that's a pipe dream. The majority of the people I know have already forgotten about TLG, and it's no small wonder why. I have absolutely no expectations for it to come out this generation. Actually, it seems extremely, extremely, unlikely.
When you say, "in just two games" you make it sound like they've had decent output. They were founded in 1997 and have put out two titles that were a technical mess. Ico was half the resolution of most PS2 games and SotC's framerate was so bad that it made it one of the few games that I was unable to play due to technical shortcomings. I don't deny that their games are unique and good for the industry, they undoubtedly are, but they are horribly managed and maintained.
higherARC05
Banned
I can't stop laughing.
Ugh. I hate .gifs like this. Sony showed a lot more exclusive and unique games than the other shows did. Yeah, they dropped the ball with the vita and that Wonderbook thing was crappy but to act like it was a fuck you to gamers isn't true at all.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
It's Mama Robotnik. At least this time he made fun of them all, for the most part.
Oh, OK. If it was Mama that did it then it's at least kind of tongue in cheek and he's an equal opportunity insulter. I thought it was made by some random, overreacting forum goer.
Mama Robotnik
Member
Wasn't me that one. I've made gifs targeting all three for the most part for their terrible conferences, none of which singled out Sony.
Well, apart from the Star Trek one earlier I suppose, but I thought that was quite gentle.
Byakuya769
Member
I recall my approval then and go back to my earlier statement. The Star Trek one is hilarious, just because this game's development is such a trainwreck. I would love to hear what's going on behind the scenes at Japan Studio and S-E on VersusXIII. It has to be a similar situation to the KojiPro version of Rising, except without the foresight to cancel and awesome studio to bail it out.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Both of those mention being shown a demo of a sample of examples of gameplay (not the actual game) but they did not play it themselves. The poster I quoted said people outside the dev and publisher had played it themselves but these links do not back that up.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
That one was perfectly fitting here. The TLOU one, while correct about VIta, makes zero sense in this thread, on the other hand. If anything, Sony is doing the exact opposite of f-you gamers here by insisting on salvaging and releasing this against seemingly all odds
Well, I know what you mean, it was a scene that wasn't supposed to even be in the game apparently, but it shows that they got the game engine working, and it wasn't all just smoke and mirrors.
bigboss370
Member
and both Blizzard and Valve have 5 times (at least) more people on their team than Team ICO. oh yeah and re-using engines.
also this.
lifa-cobex
Member
I think a fair few posters are with the "as long as it's done right, take all the time you need" op.
I can totally agree with this but having next to no new information is kinda worrying.
Technical difficulties could mean absolutely anything other than programming probs.
Software/hardware issues
Staff issues (grumble grumble)
Funding issues.
I am kinda worried that this game might not see the light of day or get passed on to another company.
I can totally agree with this but having next to no new information is kinda worrying.
Technical difficulties could mean absolutely anything other than programming probs.
Software/hardware issues
Staff issues (grumble grumble)
Funding issues.
I am kinda worried that this game might not see the light of day or get passed on to another company.
EatinOlives
Member
My thoughts too. Looks like Ueda's ambition finally crossed the line out of reality this time
Then take a look at Bungie, Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Platinum Games or even small companies like Tripwire.
These guys have cost Sony a lot of money. Money that I doubt they'll ever recoup.
None of them made any games that touched me though. Team ICO has 2 under their belt in 8 years ?
EDIT:
My thoughts too. Looks like Ueda's ambition finally crossed the line out of reality this time
Yeah... I think the catbird AI may be too difficult to execute without looking mechanical or repetitive after 2 hours. ^_^
If they take the time to make it more "organic", I'm all fer it.
I still don't buy it.
Reviewers and gamers have a special place for failed experiments, and it's not at the top of most of their "best of generation" lists.
ICO and Shadow of the Colossus are triumphs in artistic and technical achievement (animation in case your head just exploded right then), as well as class examples of ingenious puzzle design, sound design, and just overall atmospheric and evocative gaming.
I would bet that if you asked anyone who's a part of this "artistic" trend in gaming today, from the designers of Journey to the developers of Limbo, Braid, Outland and everything in between, they would tell you they hold these games in very high regard.
Visualante2
Member
Sony: open, honest.
Valve: secretive, heartbreaking.
It'd be so simple to just say something...
Valve: secretive, heartbreaking.
It'd be so simple to just say something...
lifa-cobex
Member
AgentChris
Member
So what. Polyphony Digital will make pure profit with GT5 to cover this and other smaller SCEJ titles.