Support NeoGAF

[jmdajr]

Five years into development, they finally are starting to understand that the PS3 can't handle the physics required to animate and control 10000 feathers.

Sony CEO- So, how much feathers do you want on that bird thing?
Ueda-We want it to look real, maybe 10000
Sony CEO - 10000? I don't think PS3 can't handle that
Ueda-It must handle, that's my vision

5 year later...
Sony CEO-So, are we ready for release?
Ueda-Hum...almost, we have already 1000 working feathers
Sony CEO-1000?! We have to release this in this century!!
Ueda-Well, we bumped into some technical problems, not enough ram to hold 10000 feathers, there's a different 3D model for each feather
Sony CEO-but is the game near completion?
Ueda-Once we solve the feathers problem, we are ready to start developing the game itself

Not sure how I missed this. Hilarious.

 

[lefantome]

Any other publisher would have canned the game.

kudos to sony.

It's embarassing to take 8 years for a game like that, a first party game.

Firign ueda was the least they could do.

 

[jmdajr]

Which game has taken longer. This? or GT5?

 

[thuway]

Any other publisher would have canned the game.

kudos to sony.

It's embarassing to take 8 years for a game like that, a first party game.

Firign ueda was the least they could do.

This is what could be said about all Japanese development houses.

 

[astroturfing]

still?

i seriously thought this thread was bumped from 2009/2010 or something..

 

[StuBurns]

Which game has taken longer. This? or GT5?

This took way longer. SotC was months before Tourist Trophy.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Sounds like it was over engineered

Its probably good they bring in other expertise. Team Ico is a very small studio

Still, why has no Japanese dev managed to do it right this gen?

Capcom has been pretty good this gen. They started off with a bang then kinda fizzled, but still:

Lost PLanet
DMC 3
SFIV
MvC
Re5 - meh but at least it looked good
Dragon's DOgma

 

[kayos90]

This is what could be said about all Japanese development houses.

I agree. Versus XIII and TLG have had the most messed up development period for gaming to date. I mean, you know something is wrong when Versus has almost been around for 5+ years and production didn't actually start until last year.

 

[jmdajr]

Capcom has been pretty good this gen. They started off with a bang then kinda fizzled, but still:

Lost PLanet
DMC 3
SFIV
MvC
Re5 - meh but at least it looked good
Dragon's DOgma

Capcom gets a lot of hate but at least they have their shit together. I have enjoyed Lost Planet, DMC3, RE5, SF4, and I'm sure to enjoy RE6.

 

[Death Dealer]

Last Guardian will be the last game released by Sony on the PS3, mark my words.

Yeah if the game is a POS, which I suspect, I'd rather they not even release it on PS4, thus soiling the new system's library. When it's complete enough, dump it on PS3 and get it over with.

 

[Discotheque]

It's pretty obvious the limitations of the PS3 are making things a headache for all parties involved. This E3 we saw glimpses of what was possible next generation in the form of Star Wars 1313, Watch_Dogs, and the Square Enix Luminous technical demonstration.

Imagine that sort of power under the hood for a game of this calibur. Console launches are usually murked with low quality software, ports, and nothing truly ground breaking. This could easily be the "Zelda" or the defining title in the launch of the PS4. That's why we want PS4.

Uh the morons at this dev studio can't handle current gen hardware, Imagine them trying to learn how to develop for a new system hahaha

 

[thuway]

Uh the morons at this dev studio can't handle current gen hardware, Imagine them trying to learn how to develop for a new system hahaha

There was an interview earlier which said Naughty Dog programmers were helping out with production on this game.

 

[pulga]

i can wait. don't really understand the terrible overreactions in this thread.

-its a small dev team with around 40 people and doesn't do outsourcing, compared to others that have 300+. now that they have more people working on it the game should move along a bit faster.

-when you have to make a new engine from scratch its already given the game will take at the least 3-4 years.

-they have great track record

-they're taking whatever time is necessary to make the game great, which makes me confident they're not taking concessions for the sake of a quicker release. if blizzard/valve can say "it'll be ready when its ready" then these guys can too

-there have been plenty japanese games this gen that have proper release schedules and are great games, just because some didn't doesn't mean ALL japanese games went through the same thing.

-porting to PS4 is a terrible idea, it means even more time to adjust the engine (which was built from scratch for PS3), and the code, as well as the game probably not showing at its best because it would be a port from a last generation development. not to mention a next gen playstation hasn't even been announced much less released and them having to rely on an unknown install base of users. such a bad idea. ppl questioned god of war 2's release on last gen instead of current gen and it turned out that last gen was a good call for the devs.

oh yeah and they never announced a release date, so it was never technically delayed.

Blizzard and Valve actually release games every now and then. More than 2 over their lifespans, actually!

 

[StuBurns]

Blizzard took eleven years on Diablo 3. TLG is an infant in Blizzard terms.

 

[BertramCooper]

Honestly, the game sounds way too ambitious to result in a cohesive package.

From what I've read, it's Ico + SotC + elaborate pet simulator. That sounds insanely complex, especially for a team whose prior two games were very tight and focused projects.

 

[Opiate]

Sony has been my favorite of the first parties based on personal taste for a long time, but they've been consistently moving in a direction that doesn't really appeal to me.

I strongly dislike Uncharted, Killzone, God of War, and Gran Turismo, but I also dislike Mario/Zelda/Metroid, so that's a wash. What I did like was Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, Flower, Parappa the Rappa, Journey, Super Stardust HD -- some of Sony's quirkier affairs. But Parappa the Rappa has been gone for a very long time (I know, it's an old wound for me as a child), ThatGameCompany is moving on, and Team Ico is in ruins.

I think I'll just stick with my PC/open platforms going forward as I did during most of the PS2 generation.

 

[TheLight]

Damn it, don't tease us, Sony.

 

[Discotheque]

Sony has been my favorite of the first parties based on personal taste for a long time, but they've been consistently moving in a direction that doesn't really appeal to me.

I strongly dislike Uncharted, Killzone, God of War, and Gran Turismo, but I also dislike Mario/Zelda/Metroid, so that's a wash. What I did like was Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, Flower, Parappa the Rappa, Journey, Super Stardust HD -- some of Sony's quirkier affairs. But Parappa the Rappa has been gone for a very long time (I know, it's an old wound for me as a child), ThatGameCompany is moving on, and Team Ico is in ruins.

I think I'll just stick with my PC/open platforms going forward as I did during most of the PS2 generation.

I like(d) Uncharted. But I'm kind of gravitating towards your mood right now regarding console gaming.

This E3 really showed me that now is the time we need Last Guardian the most. What with all these boring ass third person cover-based scripted up the ass games.

I'm just jaded now and I need something refreshing. Probably a big reason why that P-100 game for Wii U is my game of show now.

 

[YoungHav]

Team ICO is so small, TLG should've been a PSN game with simpler graphics.

Exactly. I feel like in this aspect PSN is wasted potential. There should have been brand new PS2-quality games being made for PSN from the start to accommodate smaller studios that don't want to spend $30M making a game. Imagine SMT: Nocturne 2 as a PSN exclusive?

 

[djtiesto]

Sounds like it was over engineered

Its probably good they bring in other expertise. Team Ico is a very small studio

Still, why has no Japanese dev managed to do it right this gen?

Namco? SEGA? (Valkyria and Yakuza teams) From? Platinum? tri-Ace?

 

[Rebel Leader]

However, multiple Sony studios are now working to get the project out the door as quickly as possible

Uh oh, this is the first time I'm really concerned about the quality of this title.

You should be

 

[Jackl]

Should have built it on PC and ported it down.

You know how hard the indie PC crowd would have popped wood with a artistic adventure physics game?

 

[Kevtones]

Technical difficulties?

Well at least we know the framerate is up to snuff.

 

[Goodacre0081]

It's pretty obvious the limitations of the PS3 are making things a headache for all parties involved. This E3 we saw glimpses of what was possible next generation in the form of Star Wars 1313, Watch_Dogs, and the Square Enix Luminous technical demonstration.

This situation might repeat itself with overzealous producers trying to do the same thing when the new consoles hit next gen. On the plus side, most western devs have a good grasp on what their studios can do in a reasonable amount of time. Ueda, sadly, only had a team of what 20-30? I dont think that's going to cut it these days. That's more along the lines of a XBLA/PSN size team now. At that rate it really was going to take the entire PS3 life cycle to complete.

I still have a problem with publishers announcing games so early. SquareEnix is the worst offender here by far, it's almost as if they announce these games before any real development has started.

Blizzard took eleven years on Diablo 3. TLG is an infant in Blizzard terms.

Im pretty sure D3 has only been in development for 6 years. It's not saying much due the game being pretty short

 

[The Lamonster]

Dear game developers,

Learn how to make a video game. Learn how to make deadlines.

Love,
The Lamonster

 

[Kaizer]

VAPORWARE. VAPOR. WARE.

 

[lifa-cobex]

Im sticking with the idea of...

thought of a great concept, made a good engine and good designs.

Forgot to wright a story to go with it all.

 

[Derrick01]

I would have pulled the plug on this years ago if I was running Sony. Years and years of development and fucking nothing to show of it yet. All for a game that will probably struggle mightily to reach 1 million sold. At least GT for all its fuckups managed to do really well.

 

[Zoe]

If the technical problem is "It runs at 10FPS most of the time" then PS4 would do nothing but help. To be fair, the minimal in-game footage I've seen didn't seem to run that bad, but it did have visible frame drops. You can see these few seconds of footage on the bonus material of Ico collection.

Are you making the assumption that porting to PS4 would be effortless? They've already spent years building an engine for the PS3.

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Im sticking with the idea of...

thought of a great concept, made a good engine and good designs.

Forgot to wright a story to go with it all.

There is absolutely no way they are endlessly delaying this because they have writer's block.

 

[Defunkled]

A couple of nights ago, I had a dream wherein I was playing The Last Guardian. Sadly, that might be the closest I ever get to actually playing it.

 

[lifa-cobex]

There is absolutely no way they are endlessly delaying this because they have writer's block.

Don't get me wrong. im sure its not all about writers block but im certain this was an issue for a large point.

 

[Shtof]

Blizzard/Valve: "New Diablo/Half-Life won't ship until it's done".

Internet: "Great, no need to rush it."

Sony: "TLG won't ship until it's done".

Internet: "Fuck you Sony, just can the damn thing already!"

 

[-PXG-]

This is utter fucking bullshit. It shouldn't take this long to make a video game.

Mismanagement out the ass. They should be ashamed of themselves. I will not be surprised if it's a buggy mess and only 4 hours long.

Jesus Christ.

 

[Alebrije]

The last guardian the new DUKE NUKEM..... : (

 

[adamsapple]

Yoshida explained, "The team is back in Tokyo working hard

 

[Goodacre0081]

Are you making the assumption that porting to PS4 would be effortless? They've already spent years building an engine for the PS3.

exactly, they spend and entire console generation making this game only to have it happen all over again with new technology. PS4 title? nahh, it's taking too long again. PS5 launch title. ;-)

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Do we really want this game anymore?

At the rate this has gone on I expect nothing less than a total disaster.

They should scrap everything and instead release a documentary detailing where and how it all went wrong.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Blizzard/Valve: "New Diablo/Half-Life won't ship until it's done".

Internet: "Great, no need to rush it."

Sony: "TLG won't ship until it's done".

Internet: "Fuck you Sony, just can the damn thing already!"

You want to play this game? Fine.

Since 2005/Shadow of the Colossus:
Valve has released:
Half-Life 2: Episode One 2006
Half-Life 2: Episode Two 2007
Portal 2007
Team Fortress 2 2007
Portal 2 2011
Dota 2 2012

Blizzard has released:
World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade 2007
World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King 2008
StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty 2010
World of Warcraft: Cataclysm 2010
Diablo III 2012

I see Team Ico now as nothing more than a resource drain. The ongoing development of this game is paying wages to seemingly incompetent people that could all be saved up for a fucking special indie pub fund, a money hat for an exclusive or two: people that actually make videogames, for which I exchange money for and enjoy, and Sony reaps an actual profit: we all win.

 

[The Omega Man]

after the game ships, I'd pay 60$ for a full featured documentary of what really went on with this game, no bullcrap just the truth, with interviews of all the people involved.

 

[StuBurns]

Im pretty sure D3 has only been in development for 6 years. It's not saying much due the game being pretty short

I'm pretty sure, you're not pretty sure, as it started in 2001 at Blizzard North.

 

[GANGSTERKILLER]

The never coming out Guardian. LMFAO. Maybe we see it on PS4?

 

[TerryWogan]

This is 100% a PS4 launch title and it'll be confirmed next year. They didn't show it now because it isn't running on PS3 any more.

 

[EXGN]

Blizzard/Valve: "New Diablo/Half-Life won't ship until it's done".

Internet: "Great, no need to rush it."

Sony: "TLG won't ship until it's done".

Internet: "Fuck you Sony, just can the damn thing already!"

While I think there is some of that mentality, it's a stretch to make that comparison. While we've waited for HL3, we've seen Portal 1/2, L4D 1/2, DOTA, etc. Blizzard has done a good job of staggering product releases, so while it might take 10 years for a Diablo sequel, we've seen WOW expansions/SC2 in the meanwhile.

Team ICO has been working on this for like seven years, with nothing else to show. Clearly a big part of this is Ueda's perfectionism, but Sony's Japan teams seem utterly incapable of managing themselves based on the constant delays we've seen to both GT and TLG. I admire Ueda's work ethic, but sometimes it's better to staff up and outsource some elements of development to maintain relevancy.

Game will be awesome, but everything from the leaked trailer to the constant delays make it stink of mismanagement.

 

[StuBurns]

While I think there is some of that mentality, it's a stretch to make that comparison. While we've waited for HL3, we've seen Portal 1/2, L4D 1/2, DOTA, etc. Blizzard has done a good job of staggering product releases, so while it might take 10 years for a Diablo sequel, we've seen WOW expansions/SC2 in the meanwhile.

Team ICO has been working on this for like seven years, with nothing else to show. Clearly a big part of this is Ueda's perfectionism, but Sony's Japan teams seem utterly incapable of managing themselves based on the constant delays we've seen to both GT and TLG. I admire Ueda's work ethic, but sometimes it's better to staff up and outsource some elements of development to maintain relevancy.

Game will be awesome, but everything from the leaked trailer to the constant delays make it stink of mismanagement.

Team ICO is not a studio, it's a team, part of SCEJ. The fact they have a specific name, instead of 'The Half-Life Team' is kind of irrelevant. SCEJ have released games consistently too.

 

[CF_Fighter]

"Our original idea wasn't working out, so we're converting it to a first-person shooter."

Nope, third-person cover based shooter with a focus on a "rich, cinematic experience"

 

[I should be doing hw]

 

[Withnail]

I think the problem is that Ueda's vision for the game was too ambitious and simply exceeds current capabilities in animation and AI. There must be huge challenges involved in getting that creature moving through confined spaces without clipping or getting stuck, with the feathers brushing against the walls and each other in a believable way. Some of these problems just haven't been solved before, and moving to a new architecture would not suddenly provide solutions. In fact given that it is expected that PS4 will not use the Cell they would probably have to throw away a lot of the work done to date.

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Man, i LOVE technical difficulties.

 

[The Lamonster]

You want to play this game? Fine.

Since 2005/Shadow of the Colossus:
Valve has released:
Half-Life 2: Episode One 2006
Half-Life 2: Episode Two 2007
Portal 2007
Team Fortress 2 2007
Portal 2 2011
Dota 2 2012

Blizzard has released:
World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade 2007
World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King 2008
StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty 2010
World of Warcraft: Cataclysm 2010
Diablo III 2012

I see Team Ico now as nothing more than a resource drain. The ongoing development of this game is paying wages to seemingly incompetent people that could all be saved up for a fucking special indie pub fund, a money hat for an exclusive or two: people that actually make videogames, for which I exchange money for and enjoy, and Sony reaps an actual profit: we all win.

Wow. Great post