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[Horse Armour]

Very nice, in depth article. I highly suggest reading the full thing but I've highlighted the most important parts here.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-wiiu-e3-2012

It's safe to say that last year's Wii U E3 debut left us with more questions than we had answers. It was clear that Nintendo has once again stepped back from the technological arms race that had cost its competitors billions in losses, and was focusing on controller-driven concept games that it felt had a greater chance of mainstream success. However, at the same time, the console was being released seven years after the debut of Xbox 360, so surely it had to reflect the generational leaps in technology we've seen since then? The demos suggested otherwise and, one year later, the evidence suggests that not a great deal has changed.

But Nintendo's E3 showing effectively confirms that there is no unambiguous, generational leap in raw processing power here compared to the current HD consoles, and prior claims that the machine hosts twice the power of the Xbox 360 clearly ring hollow.

Instead, the assets released by Nintendo in particular are notable in how "lo-fi" they are: its own screenshots confirm that some of its most simplistic titles are running at basic 720p resolution with no kind of anti-aliasing whatsoever, just like its demos were a year ago. A closer look at the showcase titles Nintendo debuted at its E3 press conference also shows a puzzling lack of consistency in performance that we wouldn't expect to see in a console based on mature tech less than six months out from release, which we can only explain by the idea that the second screen is imposing more of a drain than we might have otherwise thought. The company's spiritual successor to pack-in title Wii Sports - Nintendo Land - is an interesting example of this inconsistency. In theory this is "home territory" where Nintendo should revel in what it does best. While the concepts and charm are there, the trademark 60Hz update is inconsistent to say the least in certain areas - puzzling for such a visually sparse title.

As you would hope, New Super Mario Bros. U achieves a flawless 60Hz performance

Analysis confirms that Pikmin 3 runs at a fairly solid 30 frames per second, with just the occasional, minor drop in frame-rate when effects work pushes the hardware a little more. This does not tally with a report from the showfloor, where an unnamed rep said it will ship at 60Hz. Of all of the Nintendo titles on display, it's Pikmin 3 that had the most modern attributes in terms of what was being rendered on-screen, and the adherence to 30 frames per second once again strongly suggests that the core hardware represents no fundamental leap in capabilities over what current-gen consoles offer. While we should fully expect optimisation efforts in the time before release, it's highly unlikely that ballpark performance will change radically.

Here's a quick roundup of analysis based on the "sizzle" reels we saw of footage at the Nintendo conference, where existing PS3 and Xbox 360 versions are already available or are currently in development. As this was not live gameplay based on direct feeds from the console itself, we can't confirm the provenance of the footage and in the case of Mass Effect 3 we suspect that the PC version was being used:

- 	                            Ballpark Performance
Darksiders 2 	                    15-60FPS
Mass Effect 3 	                    Cinematics 30FPS, Gameplay 60FPS
Tank Tank Tank 	            30FPS
Tekken Tag Tournament 2 	    Cinematics 30FPS, Gameplay 60FPS
Trine 2: Director's Cut 	    30FPS
Ninja Gaiden 3                       30FPS
Aliens: Colonial Marines 	    30FPS
Assassin's Creed 3 	            30FPS
Rayman Legends 	            30FPS

Arkham City is an interesting case in that we have a game that by default has a whole series of enhancements available to the developers courtesy of the existing PC version.Many of these are DirectX 11-based, so almost certainly beyond the reach of the Wii U GPU, but there are a range of tweakables available within the inner workings of the Unreal Engine - draw distance and the like - that the creators of the new version could draw upon.First up, in this comparison shot taken from Two-Face's head-to-head with Catwoman, we find that the Wii U version offers up obvious improvements in terms of texture resolution... it would demonstrate that brand new assets have been created for the Wii U version that would more fully utilise the 25GB of Blu-ray storage - something we didn't even see in the PS3 game.

Arkham City continued: First of all, there are fundamental differences in the lighting model - positioning is different, and some light sources are added, others taken away. Wii U also seems to be sporting motion blur, different settings in the atmospheric rendering, along with the addition of brand new assets to the scene - not just the banners hanging from the tower, but new textures in some places too - it actually seems to be more accurately representing the look of the building when you first make your way towards it after saving Catwoman in the game's first chapter.

The scene is dramatically transformed but where there are some new additions, we also see cutbacks too. Long-range draw distance appears to be pared back noticeably, while in the mid-distance we see missing buildings, and the introduction of minor new scenery like additional water towers. Curiously, thin geometry seems to be entirely absent in places for some reason. We won't draw definitive conclusions until we're hands-on with actual code but it does seem to suggest that elements have been added and removed to better suit the capabilities of the hardware.

We're also fairly sure that the basic console 720p presentation has been augmented with FXAA or some equivalent post-process anti-aliasing, which is present in all the gameplay clips, but disabled when "detective vision" is in play. The PS3 and 360 versions feature no anti-aliasing at all.

Reports continue to emerge from sources suggesting that Wii U is significantly more powerful than the current batch of titles may lead us to believe - the obvious inference being that these games have been created on incomplete hardware, perhaps with development tools that are still evolving, by studios unfamiliar with the hardware.

However, to survive the upcoming transition from the current HD consoles to their enormously improved successors, Wii U needs enough grunt to at least part-way bridge the generational gap - and there was scant evidence at E3 that the raw power required to do this was on tap. If it is a matter of getting to know the hardware and coaxing out maximum performance, the question is whether the third parties are prepared to invest the required time and effort.

In the medium term we should expect to see a new range of "cross-gen" titles come to market - the likes of the Unreal Engine 3-powered Star Wars 1313 and Ubisoft's spectacular Watch Dogs are likely to be amongst their number. These titles are almost certain to arrive on the existing HD consoles, but Wii U versions for these and many other key 2013 titles remain unannounced and there was a palpable lack of more current games in the launch line-up.

 

[tanooki141]

This is so disappointing.

I need my 1080p Pikmin!

 

[Y2Kev]

Mass Effect 3 was 60 FPS in gameplay? That's pretty nice.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Mass Effect 3 was 60 FPS in gameplay? That's pretty nice.

They reckon it was the PC version.

 

[wsippel]

60 FPS UE3 games? On consoles? Unpossible.

 

[Gravijah]

60 FPS UE3 games? On consoles? Unpossible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=egne2ZCMM_0#t=16s

 

[Prophet Steve]

Rayman Legends only 30 fps? That's surprising and disappointing.

 

[JaxJag]

60 FPS UE3 games? On consoles? Unpossible.

Yeah, not like Mortal Kombat runs at 60 FPS or anything.

 

[evolution]

Are both Rayman and ninja gained 30fps on consoles? I have the pc version of Rayman so I never thought about it.

 

[walking fiend]

hm... what a mixed bag.

Batman looking surprisngly better than other console versions. They are so going to sell it at full price.

 

[Oblivion]

Are the PS3 and 360 capable of AA?


And also, I'm pretty sure Rayman Legends was 60 fps, not 30.

 

[Durante]

Are both Rayman and ninja gained 30fps on consoles? I have the pc version of Rayman so I never thought about it.

Rayman Origins is 60 fps on consoles AFAIK.

Are the PS3 and 360 capable of AA?

Of course.

 

[Gravijah]

They are so going to sell it at full price.

hahaha of course they are.

 

[scitek]

Man, the more I read about it, the more the Wii U seems like such a misstep.

 

[walking fiend]

hahaha of course they are.

Now that I see that they have really tweaked the game, even down to graphics, I think I may buy it at full price.

 

[googleplex]

I've said it once and I'll say it again.

Welcome to The Current generation Nintendo. I fucking refuse to call the WiiU a "next gen" console.

 

[Bisnic]

Now that I see that they have really tweaked the game, even down to graphics, I think I may buy it at full price.

I thought reports said it looked worse??

 

[walking fiend]

I thought reports said it looked worse??

They said one cutscene have some additions, some cut back; the rest apparently looks just better.

but overall:

"Enhanced anti-aliasing, LOD adjustments, texture differences - the forthcoming Arkham City Wii U Face-Off should be quite fascinating without even factoring in the tablet-based enhancements."

And as they say, that is disregarding the GamePad

 

[Prophet Steve]

Rayman Origins is 60 fps on consoles AFAIK.

Of course.

You are correct about Rayman, also 1080P I believe.

 

[gamergirly]

As I said in another thread, wii u is going to surprise ppl. There's no way to judge the console based on obvious 360/PS3 ports and unoptimized games. The final devkit is VERY recent and couldn't be integrated before E3

 

[Twenty7KVN]

I've said it once and I'll say it again.

Welcome to The Current generation Nintendo. I fucking refuse to call the WiiU a "next gen" console.

You can call it whatever you want.It doesn't change the fact that it's Nintendo next console,which is going to be the start of a new generation.

 

[Radec]

I've said it once and I'll say it again.

Welcome to The Current generation Nintendo. I fucking refuse to call the WiiU a "next gen" console.

Maybe it really wasnt meant to be.

:O

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

As I said in another thread, wii u is going to surprise ppl. There's no way to judge the console based on obvious 360/PS3 ports and unoptimized games. The final devkit is VERY recent and couldn't be integrated before E3

Totally Agree with you.

 

[BigTnaples]

Been saying it all along. WiiU will be very underpowered.



Wish I was wrong, but it seems I am not.

 

[vareon]

I've said it once and I'll say it again.

Welcome to The Current generation Nintendo. I fucking refuse to call the WiiU a "next gen" console.

Nintendo "next generation" console, by definition the console following up the Wii, is underpowered compared to the other next generation consoles, which are the follow up of Xbox 360 and PS3, if any. It really doesn't matter what you call it.

 

[Phonomezer]

Consider me annoyed and disappointed.

 

[Shadow of the BEAST]

surprise surprise...

 

[Like the hat?]

I still think the whole 720p thing is because the games were developed on incomplete systems. I thought we heard that studios didn't even get final kits until a few weeks ago.

 

[Sapphire Dreams]

So I was right, the Wii U is a Xbox 360 (1.5). more powerful but not powerful enough to be leagues above it.

It doesn't matter to me as long as it brings a strong games library this time and won't be like the Wii.

 

[googleplex]

You can call it whatever you want.It doesn't change the fact that it's Nintendo next console,which is going to be the start of a new generation.

Call it what YOU will but Nintendo next console is just joining the current generation.

 

[Gravijah]

Call it what YOU will but Nintendo next console is just joining the current generation.

would that make next gen consoles not next gen since they would just be joining the pc

that would make current gen previous gen and then next gen would be current gen and then pc would be TRUE NEXT GENERATION

 

[walking fiend]

So I was right, the Wii U is a Xbox 360 (1.5). more powerful but not powerful enough to be leagues above it.

It doesn't matter to me as long as it brings a strong games library this time and won't be like the Wii.

I also hope Nintendo doesn't get greedy and tries to make a high profit out of the Wii U.

It will be a disaster if it is released at anything over $299, and I mean even 300 will be too much.

 

[StealthGoblin]

I want to know how much the gamepad will cost more than the console, as that will be the breaking point for me.

I don't mind not getting a pack in game, but I do want the console and two gamepads at launch. I'd only get one in the box, so if the price of the console + an extra gamepad is too much, no dice.

As it is, there isn't anything I'd want to buy the system for that is announced yet, so for now I'm good. No chance in hell of me playing multiplatform games on this as I'll just play them on PS4/Nextbox when they come around.

Given how Nintendo went all in for Monster Hunter for the 3DS, I'm shocked that they don't have any big big franchises announced from 3rd parties yet other than Ubisoft.

 

[zroid]

I'm not big on tech and frame rates and stuff, but a good read nonetheless. Thanks OP

 

[Twenty7KVN]

Call it what YOU will but Nintendo next console is just joining the current generation.

So by your logic the xbox360 and the PS3 are still last gen consoles because they came out when Sony was sell the ps2.

 

[Penguin]

Tank! Tank! Tank! only runs at 30... what is it pushing exactly?

 

[civilstrife]

would that make next gen consoles not next gen since they would just be joining the pc

that would make current gen previous gen and then next gen would be current gen and then pc would be TRUE NEXT GENERATION

Hahaha

Very well said.

 

[BY2K]

Aren't the first batch of games on a new console always a bit sloppy? Even if the tech is nothing new, there's always a learning stage, more or less, right?

 

[Chanser]

Tank! Tank! Tank! only runs at 30... what is it pushing exactly?

Explosions!

 

[Boney]

Tank! Tank! Tank! only runs at 30... what is it pushing exactly?

it's an unoptimized 2009(?) arcade game

 

[soulassssns]

Does Nintendo Land need to be anything but basic at 720P? seriously!

 

[evangd007]

Nice article, the Arkham City info was really great and gives the most insight into the supposed power of the Wii U. If it's that good on a previous, unoptimized dev kit, then I'm excited.

The AA mentioned would be hardware accelerated, no? Last I checked UE3 doesn't natively support AA.

 

[JosephManderley]

As someone who really knows next to nothing about this, what is more taxing for a system 720p at 60fps, or 1080 at 30fps?

If a game is currently being shown at 720p and 30fps, but the new dev kit allows an improvement - what would devs be more likely to aim for, higher res or fps? (or something else? better textures?)

Apologies if these are simple/stupid questions, I'm not good at understanding this stuff.

 

[walking fiend]

Tank! Tank! Tank! only runs at 30... what is it pushing exactly?

It's body is not ready

Aren't the first batch of games on a new console always a bit sloppy? Even if the tech is nothing new, there's always a learning stage, more or less, right?

Xbox 360 ~ 10-20 times more powerful than PS2:
- some games look worse than best of PS2

Wii U ~ 2-4 times more powerful than 360:
- what do people expect?

 

[nasos_333]

It was expected since they have to include a rather big screen in every pack, the cost would be either huge or the hardware would be cut back

 

[GeneralManager]

Does Nintendo Land need to be anything but basic at 720P? seriously!

Nintendo Land can't run in 1080P? Seriously!

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Nice article, the Arkham City info was really great and gives the most insight into the supposed power of the Wii U. If it's that good on a previous, unoptimized dev kit, then I'm excited.

Well, that was what stood out for me. They seem to be making some interesting additions and improvements to the games, using the Gamepad reasonably well and all this without final kits and with middleware that is - reportedly - still unoptimised.

I'm not expecting miracles, but I think that - provided the final kits are the little bump we expect and the middleware situation stabilises - you're going to see ports and cross-plats like Darksiders II looking clearly better.

EDIT:

The key thing for Nintendo is not that the ports and PS360 crossplats look good - though that is important - but that their own titles and any third-party exclusives look bloody great, and clearly better than what is possible on the other two platforms. That's perhaps why I found their titles and the few exclusives that disappointing - they look great, but they needed spectacular. There is time, and I expect some good stuff from Japan, but it's a massive opportunity missed.

 

[mysteriousmage09]

So the Pikmin statement of it running at 60fps was bullshit. Incredible machine Nintendo.

 

[soulassssns]

Nintendo Land can't run in 1080P? Seriously!

Just because it is in 720P does not mean the game cannot run in 1080p. It could have simply been an artistic choice.

 

[reelbigtink]

Not that I'm happy about the hardware, but most folks I know who are into Mario/Zelda (including me) don't really care too much about raw power. It'd be nice if the system could run UE4 but I'll be happy with new, HD versions of franchises I love.

WiiU won't dominate the market this holiday but enough Nintendo fans and casuals will buy the system to keep Nintendo in the black, I'd wager. There are cheap PCs and incoming next-gen consoles for everybody else.