Really? That explains a lot about the games visuals.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
5th Cell CEO (GAF's own Jackson): Wii U is "definitely more powerful than PS3 & 360"
- Thread starter dc89
- Start date
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
Here is what you said:
Do you think touch screen use on Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks was minimal?
shinobi602
Member
Maybe it can, but I sure never saw better looking titles on it.
Stealth20k
Banned
Please re read what I said again. In the mario games it was minimal
Since when are zelda games, mario games?
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
So why was DS 3D so damn ugly?
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
Whatever, it isn't worth arguing the word "especially". The bigger point is that you were debating dishonestly PURPOSELY leaving out the Zelda games because they didn't fit in your flawed argument.
Rest assured, Nintendo will use first party games to shove their gimmicks down your throat and since first party games are the reason most people will buy the WiiU, I would say that makes the touch screen non optional for the most important games on the system.
Stealth20k
Banned
"Only nintendo ones most of the time,"
That included zelda
I am well aware zelda games were touch only. I own both and beat them both twice.
I mean even the mario U game, when your playing by yourself, the touch screen is minimally used
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
Let's look at the Zelda and Mario games that forced you to use the gimmick of the machine. Probably won't remember them all.
NSMB DS - Had to use the touch screen to drop your power up
NSMB Wii/Galaxy/Galaxy 2 - had to waggle the Wiimote to spin jump
Twilight Princess - Waggle
Skyward Sword - Motion Plus
Zelda DS games - full stylus control
None of those games had optional control schemes and this gen will be exactly the same. They will force touch screen controls into games and they won't be optional. That's Nintendo for you.
Stealth20k
Banned
Minimal does not mean 0.
Minimal means minimal
You just proved my point.......
Minimal, is putting a picture on the bottom screen and leaving it alone.
0 would mean the bottom screen stays black, that never happens
maybe you want to move on? hmm
fallingdove
Member
Your position is hilarious. Nintendo haven't 'stated' anything. Your thinking around clock speed is as much based on conjecture as anything I noted, but you have the stronger position? My god.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
Minimal = used
So those who say that the touch screen is optional, it won't be for many first party games. That's the point.
Stealth20k
Banned
when you quoted me. I said minimal. And then you attacked me. I demand an apology and flowers
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
Yes you did say minimal but minimal is NOT OPTIONAL.
I will offer an apology though because it seems you got pulled into this non optional debate when it started with someone else. No flowers, Steam and my wallet, well you understand.
Maybe so but it make sense for Nintendo to want full BC with Wii & Gamecube games & what did they do last time?
Wii used the Gamecube CPU with a higher clock speed one of these anonymous cowards as you call them said that the Wii U CPU is a CPU made with 3 Wii CPUs as cores but clocked higher.
the power of the CPU isn't that important to them because the GPU can help with the CPU work now.
think about it it's 7 Years later they could easily get a new model of a IBM CPU using cores like the PS3 PPU & the 360 CPU that would be head & shoulders above the PS3 & Xbox 360 CPU & use way less energy but they would rather have BC without having to have a power hungry CPU.
so the more I hear about the weaker CPU the more the Wii CPU cores make sense to me.
Stealth20k
Banned
Of course its not going to be optional.........I mean according to many devs making the menus through the start/select buttons, is no more or less work than putting it on a second screen (ds devs)
So I see know reason why minimally you wont see menus, maps, quick time buttons
Yes I understand now I have to figure out what 500 games to buy
Quixz
Member
Amazing stuff! Never thought the DS could do that!
Found a slightly better video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3n62Z4nxAQ&feature=related
Stealth20k
Banned
shinobi602
Member
Impressive. Sadly a vast majority of games did not look like that.
GreggTheGrimReaper
Member
Now we're playing with power!
?
airmangataosenai
Member
It wasn't all ugly. DS could do some nifty stuff with its quasi-cel shading that you never saw on the N64.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7LpsjDtdXU
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
Last Gens Power!
Grinchy
Banned
For some reason I thought Pikmin looked really impressive. It was really the only thing I've found impressive or interesting about the Wii-U so far.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
Looks good and then there is this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSpBYvUfrro
You would expect better graphics from SE.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Mario Kart DS looked significantly better than MK64 and ran at a higher framerate (even during online multiplayer), and there were titles on the DS like Metroid Prime Hunters and Dementium II.
I know & I'm not saying this will be like the GC to Wii jump because it's clear that this is a bigger jump but a triple core CPU using Wii like cores clocked higher with a better design is a pretty big jump from the Wii & it's using a much more powerful GPU that can run some CPU task.
it would be pretty hard for Nintendo to find a IBM CPU in 2012 that's weaker or around the same power as the Xbox 360 CPU that's not a mobile CPU so if their is questions about the CPU being weaker it has to be because Nintendo wanted it to be designed that way.
lol I can't jump through the internet & beat you up.
ZombieSupaStar
Member
Just Wii games in HD (as seen in the dolphin thread) look good enough for me (with that level of image quality), so if they can do that on Wii U I would be happy.
Stealth20k
Banned
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
DS has this weird block where it could only display a little over 2k polys perscene despite being able to produce more. Don't ask me why. I've never heard a valid justification for this.
Matrix's engine just hit the poly cap to easily. That plus low res with no texture filtering gave us uneven results.
This is true & Nintendo know this.
I don't know about anyone else here but Nintendo games with PS3/Xbox360 level graphics is good enough for me & I'm pretty sure it will be good enough for most of the world who are not graphic whores that can't play a game just because they know there is something on another console that looks better.
metalslimer
Member
The people talking about how Pikmin 3 is a Wii game upscaled into HD need to go read more interviews. Miyamoto specifically said they started work on the Wii U version in 2010 meaning they pretty much will have had a full 2 year dev cycle to work on the game. Before 2010 they basically had a very small team working on it. First of all I think Pikmin 3 looks really good, but even then the reason it looks like it does is because EAD 4 is likely stretched then between making it and New Super Mario Bros U and NSMB2.
I Stalk Alone
Member
metalslimer
Member
Uh, from what I can see it looks like a good looking 360 game.
Shitty lazy wii port of pikmin 3 with a few tweaks is enough for me.
Either it is a Wii conversion as the game's architecture and polycount indicate, or Nintendo is not really trying to push its console graphically. I mean, it's obvious that the Wii U can deliver better graphics than the PS3 and 360. It's just that Nintendo has yet to show that they are able to use this power. After all, they don't have much experience with HD consoles.
Its not just an upscaled Wii game, but it certainly isn't built from the ground up for the WiiU. What interviews are you talking about anyway, last I heard the game was literally ready on the Wii for E3 2011 and a release that year before they decided to move it over to the WiiU prior to that E3.
GamerVoice
Banned
Which is pretty unacceptable, honestly.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
I'd say they need to actually look at Pikmin 2 again, or else they've clearly lost their minds. The assets and effects in Pikmin 3 are clearly a generational step up for the series, I'm still surprised how much casual observers continue downplaying it.
People are just comparing its graphics to what is available on other consoles. One could've expected some more effort.
metalslimer
Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4ZBpcY99m4
I think it looks much better than some retouched Wii game. Not pushing the system obviously, but better than what it has made to sound to be. I mean look at Pikmin 2 for goodness sake which I doubt Pikmin 3 would have looked much better than on Wii:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmcDW-Hd_bk
People seem to have forgotten how Pikmin 2 looked.
It's a launch game like being worked on by a pretty small team. It's not like Pikmin is a AAA production. If the next big budget Nintendo game (3D Mario, Metroid, etc.) looks like a mid tier PS3/360 game I think there would be a problem.
I think it looks much better than some retouched Wii game. Not pushing the system obviously, but better than what it has made to sound to be. I mean look at Pikmin 2 for goodness sake which I doubt Pikmin 3 would have looked much better than on Wii:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmcDW-Hd_bk
People seem to have forgotten how Pikmin 2 looked.
It's a launch game like being worked on by a pretty small team. It's not like Pikmin is a AAA production. If the next big budget Nintendo game (3D Mario, Metroid, etc.) looks like a mid tier PS3/360 game I think there would be a problem.
Pseudo_Sam
Survives without air, food, or water
What do you expect them to do? They've been working on the damn thing freakin forever, I'm sure it wasn't an easy decision to decide to move it to the WiiU.
And it looks fine. Not stunning, but fine. Which is plenty good enough for the vast majority of people. I'd rather they spend all their time making the game - you know, the part you actually play - as varied, interesting, and polished as possible, instead of diverting resources to squeezing out better textures or increasing water detail. It certainly isn't a showcase of graphical prowess, but I don't think it was ever going to be, considering where it started.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
You're still wrong, look at the modeling, depth of field, water effects, lighting... this isn't simply a Wii game with new textures. Not anymore than Eternal Darkness or Star Fox Adventures were N64 games with new textures.
I'd say it's easily EAD4's most visually impressive game to date too. Way nicer than NSMBU.
I've never had much of an interest in Pikmin. I took a pass on the series since I got into the GameCube late. That Pikmin 3 is clearly though a Wii up-port to a degree doesn't change that. I learned to dislike that on the 3DS and certainly don't want to deal with that on the Wii U. That it also lacks any online of any kind, not even leaderboards, doesn't help either.
If developers are getting frustrated with the power talk in regard to the Wii U then that's a good thing. I believe they're concerned about how their games will sell in the end if people think the system is weak. Or maybe it's something else. Perhaps they'll continue to be frustrated and get frustrated enough that they'll voice their concerns with Nintendo who is dragging out information and refusing to show what the system can really do. Or stopping others from showing off games that show the power of the system. When no significant information or proof of the power of the system is shown negativity should be expected and I hope it continues until it forces Nintendo to respond in such a way that it puts those concerns to rest. Developers shouldn't be frustrated with those voicing negativity but Nintendo for allowing it to take place and even encouraging it.
If developers are getting frustrated with the power talk in regard to the Wii U then that's a good thing. I believe they're concerned about how their games will sell in the end if people think the system is weak. Or maybe it's something else. Perhaps they'll continue to be frustrated and get frustrated enough that they'll voice their concerns with Nintendo who is dragging out information and refusing to show what the system can really do. Or stopping others from showing off games that show the power of the system. When no significant information or proof of the power of the system is shown negativity should be expected and I hope it continues until it forces Nintendo to respond in such a way that it puts those concerns to rest. Developers shouldn't be frustrated with those voicing negativity but Nintendo for allowing it to take place and even encouraging it.
metalslimer
Member
The only thing really holding Pikmin 3 back visually is those ground textures. Does anyone have some good Dolphin Pikmin 2 pics for comparison?
If 3rd parties are worried about people complaining about the visuals of Wii U than they chose the wrong system to develop for to begin with.
If 3rd parties are worried about people complaining about the visuals of Wii U than they chose the wrong system to develop for to begin with.
It's the graphically most impressive title Nintendo has shown for the Wii U. As the Wii U releases 7 years after the 360 release, one could've expected a bit more.
And? It's still clearly evident that it originates from the Wii. As said above, one could've hoped that Nintendo put in some more effort into this title. And I am pretty sure that the level architecture would have been possible on Wii. Of course, it would've lacked lots of leaves and effects.
Comparing this to SFA-DP is absurd though, as SFA looks noticeably better when only considering the game's architecture/modelling.
But I should not complain. As long as we never get Twilight Princess- and Pandora's Tower-like textures again, I'm happy.
metalslimer
Member
Sure but that's more of Nintendo's problem as they haven't show anything outside the launch window. I think at the September conference or whenever they throw their conference to show more Japanese games and the price and launch details we should see more info especially since EAD Tokyo's Wii U game was apparently in a playable state.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Pikmin 3 does not look like a Wii game with new textures. There are lighting, shadow, shader, DOF effects going on that would not be in any Wii game. This is besides the fact that we don't know the true scale of the game yet, or how many Pikmin units the player will ultimately be controlling. It is an RTS basically. Much of the available resources are going to go for AI and world calculations. And it runs at 60fps.
Seems what is really happening is that people are being hyper critical of every single game Nintendo has shown, predicated on a notion that Nintendo had some sort of duty to 'prove' they're Big Boy developers - in this case, "Big Boy" means Uncharted graphics.
But folks should have gone in with full awareness that that has never been the Nintendo way. They don't place graphical technology above everything else in all projects. They only emphasize technology in a select few games.
Actually, what I would have expected was to see Nintendo take good advantage of the new technology available in ways that actually matter; and I wasn't disappointed. While it might have excited polygon and pixel counters to see extreme technology lavished on Pikmin for little practical return, it looks pleasing in every way that really counts when you're actually playing a game for the long haul. And a standard of 60fps cannot be discounted. There are plenty of games in the current gen that sacrifice things to aim for a solid 60fps for playability purposes.
This is like the complaints about NSMB U; there was griping that it didn't somehow showcase this kind of technological punch that it, by its fundamental nature, has no need of or even a place for. That isn't the game it is. Instead, it uses the new hardware pretty well for the kind of visual presentation it employs, including a lot of nice animations and effects in its backgrounds.
You'll have to forgive me; the older I get, the less interested or impressed I am by displays of technological whizzbang for the sake of it. I take things like clarity, interface, presentation, more seriously. Based on what I have seen so far, Nintendo is on track to update their aesthetic presentation to take solid advantage of the new kit they're working with.
Seems what is really happening is that people are being hyper critical of every single game Nintendo has shown, predicated on a notion that Nintendo had some sort of duty to 'prove' they're Big Boy developers - in this case, "Big Boy" means Uncharted graphics.
But folks should have gone in with full awareness that that has never been the Nintendo way. They don't place graphical technology above everything else in all projects. They only emphasize technology in a select few games.
Actually, what I would have expected was to see Nintendo take good advantage of the new technology available in ways that actually matter; and I wasn't disappointed. While it might have excited polygon and pixel counters to see extreme technology lavished on Pikmin for little practical return, it looks pleasing in every way that really counts when you're actually playing a game for the long haul. And a standard of 60fps cannot be discounted. There are plenty of games in the current gen that sacrifice things to aim for a solid 60fps for playability purposes.
This is like the complaints about NSMB U; there was griping that it didn't somehow showcase this kind of technological punch that it, by its fundamental nature, has no need of or even a place for. That isn't the game it is. Instead, it uses the new hardware pretty well for the kind of visual presentation it employs, including a lot of nice animations and effects in its backgrounds.
You'll have to forgive me; the older I get, the less interested or impressed I am by displays of technological whizzbang for the sake of it. I take things like clarity, interface, presentation, more seriously. Based on what I have seen so far, Nintendo is on track to update their aesthetic presentation to take solid advantage of the new kit they're working with.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
You should view that game on the XL, it's pretty ugly too.
lunchwithyuzo
Banned
Level density/architecture looks doable on Wii sure, though you'd lose lots of detail and roundness since the modeling would take a giant hit. Same is true for ED and SFA though, it's literally almost the same situation. Hell, same can be said of most HD games, with redone assets most stuff could've been done on Xbox/Wii.
I'd say Nintendo Land is the most visually impressive of EAD's games though. And probably the biggest budget out of what they've shown too.