Support NeoGAF

[Gigglepoo]

Sorry for pimping my own podcast, but yesterday Kevin VanOrd, Jeff Gerstmann and I interviewed Walt Williams, the lead writer of Spec Ops: The Line. I think it went really well.

Warning: Spoilers Galore!

Link

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Loved the ending. Right now one of my favourites right now.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Nice post firehawk. I totally agree.

It's like they had a cool idea for a story, but decided to attach it to a pretty bad game, complete with a bunch of "gamey" shit that really doesn't mesh well with the story they are trying to tell.

They could have made a much different game that would have felt more in line with the story and atmosphere they were going for. As it is, it's like you have two incongruous parts running parallel to each other.

 

[firehawk12]

Thanks! One thing I forgot to mention is that I appreciated that they tried to do the Vietnam War soundtrack without resorting to the obvious classics. They could have used Ride of the Valkyries, but they didn't... and they definitely could have used Fortunate Son but they decided against it. (Even Black Ops couldn't resist ).

Sorry for pimping my own podcast, but yesterday Kevin VanOrd, Jeff Gerstmann and I interviewed Walt Williams, the lead writer of Spec Ops: The Line. I think it went really well.

Warning: Spoilers Galore!

Link

Ah, cool. I hope some of the bigger questions are asked and answered. Is this the podcast that is replacing the old Hotspot as well?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Thanks! One thing I forgot to mention is that I appreciated that they tried to do the Vietnam War soundtrack without resorting to the obvious classics. They could have used Ride of the Valkyries, but they didn't... and they definitely could have used Fortunate Son but they decided against it. (Even Black Ops couldn't resist ).


Ah, cool. I hope some of the bigger questions are asked and answered. Is this the podcast that is replacing the old Hotspot as well?

Wait... they didn't use Ride of the Valkyries? I could have sworn I heard it.

 

[Gigglepoo]

Ah, cool. I hope some of the bigger questions are asked and answered. Is this the podcast that is replacing the old Hotspot as well?

We covered a ton of topics. He even dropped a few details about the story that I hadn't picked up on.

And the tentatively titled GamePlay is the replacement for The Hotspot. This interview is not the normal format, though.

 

[NullPointer]

It's like they had a cool idea for a story, but decided to attach it to a pretty bad game, complete with a bunch of "gamey" shit that really doesn't mesh well with the story they are trying to tell.

I don't think its a bad game and the gamey bits actually work in the sense that they don't mesh, but only up to a point.

I actually like that the game starts like any other third person shooter in terms of gameplay and objectives before pulling the rug out from under you. It uses our familiarity as a vector to infect us, so those gamey bits might have been necessary. But its a difficult balance to achieve, and it hits just short of the mark.

But in terms of mechanics the shooting is solid, powerful and meaty. I'd agree that allied AI and the cover system definitely needed some more work though.

 

[Soyongdori]

It's a SHOOTING game after all. I have no clue why people are complaining about the gameplay that has plenty of shooting.

 

[mocolostrocolos]

Made a run through till I reached Chapter 9.

This game is really intense in terms of gameplay and story. 'The Gate' was really overwhelming.

 

[firehawk12]

Wait... they didn't use Ride of the Valkyries? I could have sworn I heard it.

No, they used Dies Irae during the

Spoiler

little bird escape sequence where Radioman sings along

.

It's a SHOOTING game after all. I have no clue why people are complaining about the gameplay that has plenty of shooting.

The shooting is antithetical to the actual story being told though. It's like Uncharted games, where you have to divorce the fact that Drake is a murdering psychopath who kills thousands of people from the fact that he's supposed to be a human being.

(And, again, getting extra ammo from executing people is just... videogamey. In fact, the same mechanic happens in Uncharted as well)

I don't think its a bad game and the gamey bits actually work in the sense that they don't mesh, but only up to a point.

I actually like that the game starts like any other third person shooter in terms of gameplay and objectives before pulling the rug out from under you. It uses our familiarity as a vector to infect us, so those gamey bits might have been necessary. But its a difficult balance to achieve, and it hits just short of the mark.

But in terms of mechanics the shooting is solid, powerful and meaty. I'd agree that allied AI and the cover system definitely needed some more work though.

Oh god, press B to vault is the worst thing ever.

We covered a ton of topics. He even dropped a few details about the story that I hadn't picked up on.

And the tentatively titled GamePlay is the replacement for The Hotspot. This interview is not the normal format, though.

Ah, well, I had a ton of questions about the story and the game play. In fact, I surprised myself with how long that post was. lol
Edit: I wasn't really satisfied with the writer's explanation of the

Spoiler

mortar sequence. You have a choice, but the game funnels you into a direction anyway. It's just very much a Bioshock moment and I don't think he should apologize or try to spin that in a different direction.

Nor was his explanation of the executions... although he wasn't asked about how executing someone would give you extra ammo/grenades.

 

[NullPointer]

Oh god, press B to vault is the worst thing ever.

Its better than assigning it to A like Ghost Recon: Future Soldier. I've lost stealth or been downed more than a few times in that game because I went flying over cover into gunfire rather than sliding deftly behind bulletproof safety.

 

[firehawk12]

Its better than assigning it to A like Ghost Recon: Future Soldier. I've lost stealth or been downed more than a few times in that game because I went flying over cover into gunfire rather than sliding deftly behind bulletproof safety.

My problem is that A to cover and vault is one of those things that has been ingrained into me through numerous TPS games. That's just the button that you press to vault over cover. So there have been dozens of times that I press A, snap out of cover instead of vaulting over it, and then got shot in the face.

It's a minor thing, but it would be like a FPS deciding to move the reload button to A instead of X. It's enough to just mess up how you play the game.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

No, they used Dies Irae during the

Spoiler

little bird escape sequence where Radioman sings along

.

Ah, you're right. I guess I just had "famous classical piece during helicopter sequence" in my mind and defaulted to Ride of the Valkyries.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

I love the music that plays in the final sequence and (Spoilers!)

Spoiler

the line that Konrad says, "You're here because you want to be something you're not. A hero." It applies to Walker and the player, and I love that.

 

[NullPointer]

My problem is that A to cover and vault is one of those things that has been ingrained into me through numerous TPS games.

Just like holding A to sprint rather than one-tapping it in Spec Ops. Same with cover being one-tap instead of hold, and both of those things lead to some of the complaints about movement and cover not working - we're ingrained to expect different behavior.

But once I got used to Spec Ops button presses I actually preferred them over the Gears standard, especially tap-A to sprint (which gives you tighter control mid-sprint) and B to mantle over cover. The problem is that even hitting the right buttons doesn't 100% guarantee you'll attach to cover in Spec Ops which is annoying and deadly at times.

And while the AI command mechanic is mostly useless, it does come in handy to use when you're wounded and regenerating behind cover.

 

[firehawk12]

Ah, you're right. I guess I just had "famous classical piece during helicopter sequence" in my mind and defaulted to Ride of the Valkyries.

Yeah, I can see that happening. lol
It's somewhat similar to Ride and it's evocative of... well, Apocalypse Now, that it'd be easy to just assume they're the same.

Just like holding A to sprint rather than one-tapping it in Spec Ops. Same with cover being one-tap instead of hold, and both of those things lead to some of the complaints about movement and cover not working - we're ingrained to expect different behavior.

But once I got used to Spec Ops button presses I actually preferred them over the Gears standard, especially tap-A to sprint (which gives you tighter control mid-sprint) and B to mantle over cover. The problem is that even hitting the right buttons doesn't 100% guarantee you'll attach to cover in Spec Ops which is annoying and deadly at times.

And while the AI command mechanic is mostly useless, it does come in handy to use when you're wounded and regenerating behind cover.

I understand why Gears does hold-A to sprint though - because in that game, they want to penalize you for choosing to run instead of walk. Spec Ops requires running a lot more than Gears though.

The cover in Spec Ops was weird - only surfaces that gave you the "press A to cover" prompt seems to work for cover.

 

[NullPointer]

I couldn't even get the AI thing to work. I'd hold the triangle over bad guys and nothing would happen.

Hold it over an enemy until you see their outline and then release. If the enemy is nearby Adams will open up with his LMG and/or throw a frag. If they're at a distance Lugo will move into position, sight up and then take a sniper shot. Sometimes it can take a while for them to take down their targets while at other times its pretty instant.

But like I said, I tended to get the best use of it when I was healing behind cover and wanted to take targets down without exposing myself. Its also useful against heavies, and Lugo can provide some decent sniper fire when he's already setup in a good position.

Also, in terms of cover you might be surprised just how much there is to get behind, and the prompt doesn't always show up. Just tap when close, or hold if you're in motion. Even then though, its not 100%, even for the exact same piece of cover you hid behind a few moments ago. That inconsistency sucks. And speaking of inconsistent, I could never tell what events had to transpire to get the option to flashbang enemies. The manual says it can appear when you're being suppressed, but that just isn't the case. It was never an option when I really needed it.

 

[firehawk12]

Holy crap! Listening to the podcast, I can't believe I got an interpretation of the ending/

Spoiler

helicopter sequence right!

So, I feel like maybe I should give them more credit than I thought I should. It's my fault for not expecting anything out of video games. lol

----

Hold it over an enemy until you see their outline and then release. If the enemy is nearby Adams will open up with his LMG and/or throw a frag. If they're at a distance Lugo will move into position, sight up and then take a sniper shot. Sometimes it can take a while for them to take down their targets while at other times its pretty instant.

But like I said, I tended to get the best use of it when I was healing behind cover and wanted to take targets down without exposing myself. Its also useful against heavies, and Lugo can provide some decent sniper fire when he's already setup in a good position.

Also, in terms of cover you might be surprised just how much there is to get behind, and the prompt doesn't always show up. Just tap when close, or hold if you're in motion. Even then though, its not 100%, even for the exact same piece of cover you hid behind a few moments ago. That inconsistency sucks.

Yeah, it was just really finnicky so I ended up giving up on it. In terms of cover, I'd just find the nearing piece of obvious cover and use that. Chest-high wall syndrome. lol

 

[slackboy72]

Yahtzee just reviewed this.
Seems like he can't get over the fact that he actually liked it.

I'll pick it up next payday.

 

[luxarific]

Edit: I wasn't really satisfied with the writer's explanation of the

Spoiler

mortar sequence. You have a choice, but the game funnels you into a direction anyway. It's just very much a Bioshock moment and I don't think he should apologize or try to spin that in a different direction.

Yeah, I thought that was lame. There -is- no choice that you can make (that matters) in that segment.

Spoiler

There -is- no way to get through that scene without using the mortar.

That's not a choice, imo. Given that the entire game is about the choices you make, the fact that they took that particular, and oh so crucial, choice away from the player really weakened the game for me.

 

[firehawk12]

Yeah, I thought that was lame. There -is- no choice that you can make (that matters) in that segment.

Spoiler

There -is- no way to get through that scene without using the mortar.

That's not a choice, imo. Given that the entire game is about the choices you make, the fact that they took that particular, and oh so crucial, choice away from the player really weakened the game for me.

Yeah, like Jeff

Spoiler

I tried to pick off guys as well and I realized that wasn't a solution. I think there's nothing wrong with forcing the player to go in one direction and play with the illusion of choice, as with Bioshock, but the way it was spun was weird.

He might as well have said that "You can choose not to play the game! That's a choice you can make!".

Given that you are supposed to be

Spoiler

a passive observer and given that the entire last part of the game is just a death-dream

, playing with the idea of player agency works fairly well. As long as that scene was tweaked so that your hand is played for you - even if it's just a cutscene that

Spoiler

forces you/Walker to move to the Mortar and start the firing sequence

, I think it would have worked much better.

Also, like Jeff, I also

Spoiler

noticed that the last group of "white blobs" didn't look or react like soldiers. They probably should have done something there to make it less obvious that they weren't soldiers.

That's where the focus testing definitely failed them.

 

[luxarific]

I enjoyed the interview quite a bit though. I loved the part where Williams states that one of the interpretations of the game is that

Spoiler

you are dead through most of it, having died in the helicopter crash at the beginning of the game

. I'd never seriously considered that as a possibility. Also, I'm amused that Nolan North was cast as Walker before Uncharted II even came out.

I have to replay the game, even though I don't want to, given Williams's comments about the transitions

Spoiler

fading to black transition = reality; fading to white transition = hallucination

.

Good game, even though I have some reservations.

 

[MormaPope]

Playing through it now, impressions:

- Combat is quick and most of the time fun, but the fact that you have to be glued to a corner or die is hurting the game
- Enemy AI is pretty good, they chuck grenades at you if you're camping a corner too long
- Voice acting and dialog is good, not great, but it's much better than most shooters nowadays

- Spec Ops at times can look detailed and awesome, at other times it can look way too saturated and sloppy
- Sand kills are almost always satisfying
- Chapters are hilariously short

Been playing on PC, on Chapter 4 or 5 I think. Will definitely play through the rest of the game.

 

[Jintor]

Tom Bissell's Article is a Good Read.

 

[firehawk12]

I enjoyed the interview quite a bit though. I loved the part where Williams states that one of the interpretations of the game is that

Spoiler

you are dead through most of it, having died in the helicopter crash at the beginning of the game

. I'd never seriously considered that as a possibility. Also, I'm amused that Nolan North was cast as Walker before Uncharted II even came out.

I have to replay the game, even though I don't want to, given Williams's comments about the transitions

Spoiler

fading to black transition = reality; fading to white transition = hallucination

.

Good game, even though I have some reservations.

Yeah, that's the possible ending that I talked about in the post on the last page. I'm glad that I wasn't over-reading the game, because it's so easy to think a text is doing more than it actually is (and most of the time, that's the case).

If you do replay the

Spoiler

helicopter sequence

, they make it pretty obvious that something more is happening. At the very least, it's the first thing I picked up on when the sequence started.

 

[luxarific]

Yeah, that's the possible ending that I talked about in the post on the last page.

Just went back and read your review - good comments there.

I've got to head off to bed, but in any case, I'm really glad that Amazon put this on sale since there's no way I would have purchased it at full price (wasn't even on my radar screen, honestly). On the whole, I'm glad I played the game, even though I have issues with the lack of agency in some scenes. It's just so refreshing to see a developer attempt to color outside the lines once in a while.

 

[firehawk12]

Just went back and read your review - good comments there.

I've got to head off to bed, but in any case, I'm really glad that Amazon put this on sale since there's no way I would have purchased it at full price (wasn't even on my radar screen, honestly). On the whole, I'm glad I played the game, even though I have issues with the lack of agency in some scenes. It's just so refreshing to see a developer attempt to color outside the lines once in a while.

Yeah, I was totally ready to write this game off but found something interesting instead. Unfortunately, it's probably not going to have the same impact as Bioshock - at least in the fan community - but it's something I hope has the same staying power in terms of its impact on storytelling in games.

 

[JDSN]

I enjoyed the interview quite a bit though. I loved the part where Williams states that one of the interpretations of the game is that

Spoiler

you are dead through most of it, having died in the helicopter crash at the beginning of the game

. I'd never seriously considered that as a possibility. Also, I'm amused that Nolan North was cast as Walker before Uncharted II even came out.

I have to replay the game, even though I don't want to, given Williams's comments about the transitions

Spoiler

fading to black transition = reality; fading to white transition = hallucination

.

Good game, even though I have some reservations.

Spoiler

Walker is aware that he has seen this before, im really hate this death/hallucinating/indoctrinated theories but it explains the deja vu he feels.

Great campaign, by the way.

 

[Plissken]

Tom Bissell's Article is a Good Read.

That was a great article, I ended up reading all the other articles he wrote for that site, good stuff. Thanks for pointing it out!

 

[PBalfredo]

I enjoyed the interview quite a bit though. I loved the part where Williams states that one of the interpretations of the game is that

Spoiler

you are dead through most of it, having died in the helicopter crash at the beginning of the game

. I'd never seriously considered that as a possibility. Also, I'm amused that Nolan North was cast as Walker before Uncharted II even came out.

I have to replay the game, even though I don't want to, given Williams's comments about the transitions

Spoiler

fading to black transition = reality; fading to white transition = hallucination

.

Good game, even though I have some reservations.

Spoiler

Walker is aware that he has seen this before, im really hate this death/hallucinating/indoctrinated theories but it explains the deja vu he feels.

What? No. They're just making a little joke that we've already played this sequence in the intro. Occam's razor, you guys.

Spoiler

Also, "the last act of X is all the main characters dying dream" trope is a huge pet peeve of mine since it gets thrown around as an alternate interpretation of every movie ever and people feel oh so clever for coming up with it /rant

 

[firehawk12]

What? No. They're just making a little joke that we've already played this sequence in the intro. Occam's razor, you guys.

Spoiler

Also, "the last act of X is all the main characters dying dream" trope is a huge pet peeve of mine since it gets thrown around as an alternate interpretation of every movie ever and people feel oh so clever for coming up with it /rant

Listen to the podcast that Gigglepoo linked.

Spoiler

The writer of the game confirms that the ending of the game is a hallucination.

Walker's comment alludes to this interpretation, along with the

Spoiler

colour of the fades - white for hallucination

.

 

[PBalfredo]

He confirms that it's one interpretation, and IMO, it's a shitty interpretation that's sacrifices everything after it for the one "cleaver twist"

Spoiler

way to create multiple endings for your game but invalidate them all by having your character dead this whole time, devs

BTW, when there was that one CIA guy being held captive

Spoiler

was there any way to save those civilians? During the cutscene a soldier moves them behind some cover, but when the cutscene ends, they're gone. I looked all around but couldn't see them. So I shot the guys holding the CIA agent because how else was I going to save civilians that disappeared into the ether?

 

[firehawk12]

He confirms that it's one interpretation, and IMO, it's a shitty interpretation that's sacrifices everything after it for the one "cleaver twist"

Spoiler

way to create multiple endings for your game but invalidate them all by having your character dead this whole time, devs

Well, at least in Spec Ops, it's thematically consistent that the

Spoiler

choices you make at the end of the game don't matter whatsoever.

I think it's a decent way to wrap up a game that makes more sense than any straight interpretation of the endings.

BTW, when there was that one CIA guy being held captive

Spoiler

was there any way to save those civilians? During the cutscene a soldier moves them behind some cover, but when the cutscene ends, they're gone. I looked all around but couldn't see them. So I shot the guys holding the CIA agent because how else was I going to save civilians that disappeared into the ether?

I couldn't see where they went either in this situation.

 

[Sojgat]

Just listened to the podcast. I have to say, if they had left in the option where you could

Spoiler

go down and fight and get overrun, the whole mortar sequence would have been much better. Having snipers come and eventually pick you off

was just such a typical videogame way of doing things, having a more interesting method of railroading that decision would have gone a long way. It's was nice to hear that the writer actually knew that, and felt that it was the one big mistake they made with the scene.

 

[Kenshin001]

He confirms that it's one interpretation, and IMO, it's a shitty interpretation that's sacrifices everything after it for the one "cleaver twist"

Spoiler

way to create multiple endings for your game but invalidate them all by having your character dead this whole time, devs

BTW, when there was that one CIA guy being held captive

Spoiler

was there any way to save those civilians? During the cutscene a soldier moves them behind some cover, but when the cutscene ends, they're gone. I looked all around but couldn't see them. So I shot the guys holding the CIA agent because how else was I going to save civilians that disappeared into the ether?

Anyone else want to chip in on this because I'm curious too. Wonder if anyone made the other choice and how they did it.

 

[Minion101]

What? No. They're just making a little joke that we've already played this sequence in the intro. Occam's razor, you guys.

Spoiler

Also, "the last act of X is all the main characters dying dream" trope is a huge pet peeve of mine since it gets thrown around as an alternate interpretation of every movie ever and people feel oh so clever for coming up with it /rant

LOL their is always limited thinking people like you everywhere. Normally this stuff is more fun to come to on your own, but this is a time one of the creators actually just said "fuck it, this was the intention." It is not abnormal for an artist to put a subtext into their work. In fact most memorable art has it in some form.

 

[EatChildren]

I did a review.

 

[Messofanego]

Gamespot SPOILERCAST: Spec Ops The Line

Spec Ops has inspired more conversations in the GameSpot offices than most games in recent memory. We invited lead writer Walt Williams to tell us about turning shooter tropes on their heads, why more military games don't have a message, and whether Spec Ops is supposed to be fun.

Jeff Gerstmann, Kevin VanOrd, Tom McShea, and the lead writer, Walt Williams.

So excited to hear this!

 

[spiderman123]

Hey guys, I bought Spec Ops on steam. I have a problem changing the resolution. Everytime I change it, the rez would remain on the highest regardless. Any help would be appreciated.

EDIT: I was able to fix the resolution problem via through admin changes. If anyone runs into the same problem, PM me and I will gladly walk you through it.

 

[Alo81]

Anyone else want to chip in on this because I'm curious too. Wonder if anyone made the other choice and how they did it.

Spoiler

You can save the civilians

Just don't attack anyone, and go through the stealth section without getting noticed. It actually felt really rewarding because

Spoiler

they thank you, and you feel like you actually did something good.

 

[Cheska]

Admittedly I am not a shooting enthusiast so take this opinion with a grain of salt but I'm enjoying Spec Ops way more than I anticipated. I've tried a couple of shooters this year and funnily enough the ones I've actually liked all the way through are some of the ones deemed "mediocre" by the general public.

 

[antitrop]

Admittedly I am not a shooting enthusiast so take this opinion with a grain of salt but I'm enjoying Spec Ops way more than I anticipated. I've tried a couple of shooters this year and funnily enough the ones I've actually liked all the way through are some of the ones deemed "mediocre" by the general public.

I know right? I thought it was going to suck and I was getting bored then suddenly.... it got really fucking awesome.

Spec Ops seems to be a case of the general public liking a game more than gaming pundits. Although probs to Giant Bomb, they got it.

 

[smik]

Sorry for pimping my own podcast, but yesterday Kevin VanOrd, Jeff Gerstmann and I interviewed Walt Williams, the lead writer of Spec Ops: The Line. I think it went really well.

Warning: Spoilers Galore!

Link

This was so interesting to listen to,

Spec Ops is really deep for a game that come across as dude bro, i absolutley love the misguided path & player conception it leads you down, Spec Ops Story snd pacing is pretty spot on.

im really wanting to see some sales figures because 2k/Yager definetley deserve a shot at the sequel.

Great Podcast

 

[Cheska]

Wow, gotta hand it to these guys, the story is without a doubt one of the better ones I've seen in a shooter. I think I'm somewhere in Chapter 8 and one of the events I just witnessed was definitely emotional.

 

[FrenchMovieTheme]

i have been interested in this game but not at $40-50. hopefully steam puts it on sale into the $30-ish range, and i would bite!

 

[NullPointer]

im really wanting to see some sales figures because 2k/Yager definetley deserve a shot at the sequel.

While I really liked what they did with the game, the calls for a sequel just feel very weird to me. But I am interested in whatever Yager does next and whether they are allowed the freedom to explore even more in whatever it is that they do.

 

[U2NUMB]

Finally finished the story over the weekend. Seriously ranked in the top 2 or 3 this gen when it comes to shooters. Awesome story and so well done. One thing that just stands out through the whole campaign is the use of music.

Great great campaign!

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

While I really liked what they did with the game, the calls for a sequel just feel very weird to me. But I am interested in whatever Yager does next and whether they are allowed the freedom to explore even more in whatever it is that they do.

technically it is a "sequel" of itself, the Spec Ops series, that is.

 

[Dead Man]

Well, looks like this got added to the list. Not right away, but soonish.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

While I really liked what they did with the game, the calls for a sequel just feel very weird to me. But I am interested in whatever Yager does next and whether they are allowed the freedom to explore even more in whatever it is that they do.

I wouldn't mind a spiritual sequel or something set in the same world, examining other aspects of war (though don't go back to Dubai). Perhaps there are some passing references to the events of this game, but you'd have a new cast and suff.

Yager did fantastic here, I'm really interested in seeing where they go from here.