This.
They also risk making games that only meet and obey fans' expectations rather than exceeding them and bringing them something new with what they know and love -- risking stagnation.
See: Final Fantasy XIII-2.
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Kotaku Rumor: Final Fantasy Versus XIII dead?
- Thread starter kayos90
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This.
They also risk making games that only meet and obey fans' expectations rather than exceeding them and bringing them something new with what they know and love -- risking stagnation.
See: Final Fantasy XIII-2.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
I was pretty much like that until XII honestly. I think X is when the games started to be more divisive. Though I guess people hate VIII or something.
encephalon
Member
I suspect that satisfied fans are quiet fans and that the most vocal reception of any Final Fantasy will be the dissatisfied portion.
I'm such a rare person.
I'm such a rare person.
The series has always been divisive. There was a rift between people who liked and didn't like FF2. There was a rift between fans of FF3 and fans of FF4. This has gone on for the lifetime of the series.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
Yeah, but I feel like them experimenting with the battle systems more caused an even bigger split. I mean that was the one thing that stayed constant for a long time. ATB wasn't a far cry from traditional turn based and CTB was just a round-less turn-based. Then things got a little out there with XI-XIII.
I think this is starting to become a significant problem for them, since the tastes of their former fanbase are diverging heavily and they aren't picking up many new fans given how slowly they release games (along with the general reception they are now getting).
Maybe charlequin can come by and share his stories about what modern day school children think of Final Fantasy.
At this point, like Shamdeo said, in order to grow they kind of have to exceed one audience's expectations, but that risks throwing another half out the window. Eventually they risk ending up with products that please almost no one if they simply try to satisfy nearly irreconcilable tastes without offending anyone.
At this point I think they feel the brand name is less useful than just working on rebooting the formerly popular Western IPs they already have.
Father_Brain
Banned
If the first next-gen FF underperforms in the West, which is entirely possible, I can see SE doubling down on the Japanese market and abandoning their efforts to compete with Western devs in scope, production values, etc.
Not before then, though.
Not before then, though.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
I might be biased here, but I think a huge portion of the fans would be satisfied if they made FF's similar to FFVI through FFX but with the benefits of modern hardware's horsepower.
I remembering translating reviews for FF13 on Amazon Japan, before it came out in the west, and I'm pretty sure most were dissapointed.
I think with Final Fantasy games the west and east have similar taste.
I think his main argument was that they might switch to handhelds since they are the more popular platform there, even though that would destroy most of their sales potential in the West.
TheChillyAcademic
Member
For the love of god Kagari why the hell is this thread alive?
Oh and:
Oh and:
encephalon
Member
The fanbase is pretty divided on FFVI through FFX as it is.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
There's some overlap in tastes, but there's still a lot where they're the complete opposite. Vaan for example was included because of focus testing. The west wouldn't eat up a character like that like Japan did.
I think in the case of XIII, both sides disliked it for different reasons and a few of the same reasons.
Father_Brain
Banned
That, or stick to consoles but go with lower-end visuals, like almost every console JRPG without FF in the title.
encephalon
Member
I've been of the impression that overall FFXIII was better received in Japan, even if by a little bit. Moreover, that FFXII was much better received in the west.
Something like FFXII's style but in HD wouldn't actually be bad.
Hypereides
Member
Its such a waste that Sakaguchi and Umeatsu left Square.
Mistwalker has been making more notable games than SE has over this generation.
If they had the financial backing from SE they would had more sales than they do now.
Mistwalker has been making more notable games than SE has over this generation.
If they had the financial backing from SE they would had more sales than they do now.
TheChillyAcademic
Member
Minus the helmet head voice overs.
I'd just like to point out that Nobuo Uematsu still composes for Square Enix (Final Fantasy XIV) as well as tour in Distant Worlds for them.
I can't imagine their fans and the people over in japan would be happy about that, and there's no guarantee they would make something that the west would love. It feels like an unnecessary risk.
They had Microsoft's financial backing.
Hypereides
Member
Wada most often doesnt make sense. When it comes down to creative business decision hes been quite blind. Its first now he's looking for a Final Fantasy to "surpass the quality of FF7", which kind of indicates the man is/has been shortsighted from the start.
It doesnt make things any better that he has mostly applied Activision's business model to SE.
I wouldnt be surprised either way if its cancelled or not.
They could theoretically reuse the majority of the assests they've build in Vs. and put them into FFXV.
True. But I think a SE label means more than a MS label.
I still think it was a bad choice on Sakaguchi's behalf to leave Square/SE.
Paracelsus
Member
PCSX2ed FFXII looks better than FFXIII, even texturing isn't that different.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Yeah, the last thing the series needs is for it to try and outwest, western games. It already feels like they threw fans under the bus as it is in favor of a more casual-friendly, handholding approach with FFXIII.
Hypereides
Member
Nomura used to be awesome back in the days of FF7.
His art style/design was great. I used to look up to the guy in terms of illustrating.
It boggles my mind he felt he needed to reinvent himself.
His art style/design was great. I used to look up to the guy in terms of illustrating.
It boggles my mind he felt he needed to reinvent himself.
H_Prestige
Banned
How is it that From Software can make such a graphically detailed game for ps3 in just two years flat while SE with all their money and staff still struggle?
ZombiePlatypus
Member
:/
I guess every FF thread ends up turning into a "How to fix FF" thread, with random Nomura hate. I hope you're happy SE.
I guess every FF thread ends up turning into a "How to fix FF" thread, with random Nomura hate. I hope you're happy SE.
Perhaps they could contract Gust to make it now that they're into outsourcing.
They're pretty productive these days!
Well, all they need to do to stop this is announce projects people are excited about and then proceed to release them in a timely fashion.
Haunted
Member
Now I'm curious. What does their target demographic think of FF?
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I'd rather not know.
I know kids in their early 20s who can barely remember the 5-10 years since FF has been solidly relevant.
funkystudent
Member
If canned I would like to know why.
Maybe it couldn't have been finished in the next year or two so they canned it instead of retooling it for next gen or releasing it during the console transition and getting less attention as a result like IX and XII did.
Maybe it was just a mess and in danger of being restarted so they just canned the whole thing?
I was hoping this would have reemerged as FFXV (or some nonsensical sub title) and is Squares swan song for the current platforms. I still hope it does.
Hopefully SE release a tweet tomorrow just to shut people up. Just something simple like"Vrs XIII is still in development. More info soon"
Maybe it couldn't have been finished in the next year or two so they canned it instead of retooling it for next gen or releasing it during the console transition and getting less attention as a result like IX and XII did.
Maybe it was just a mess and in danger of being restarted so they just canned the whole thing?
I was hoping this would have reemerged as FFXV (or some nonsensical sub title) and is Squares swan song for the current platforms. I still hope it does.
Hopefully SE release a tweet tomorrow just to shut people up. Just something simple like"Vrs XIII is still in development. More info soon"
cosmicblizzard
Banned
I hope the Nomura hate is for the guy's game dev cycles rather than his designs. I mean people still attribute everything bad about the series to him and it's annoying. He's one of the few major talents left at Square.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Big fish in a small pond...
Well, to be fair, they put Copyright Tetsuya Nomura on screenshots of as many products as possible.
I mean really, when you do this, who are people going to naturally assume is responsible for them?
cosmicblizzard
Banned
After BBS, I'm willing to call him a big fish period.
Hah, I didn't even know that. Guess it makes sense then.
metalslimer
Member
BBS and TWEWY give me faith in Nomura, but how much involvement did he have in TWEWY and the story of BBS was still awful.
The director of Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days and Re:Coded is a major talent? Seriously?
This whole issue demonstrates two very important things alot of people seem to have missed. How square enix has fallen from the glory days of squaresoft and two the sheer incomptence of sony's dealings with third parties this generation.
At the start of this generation, Sony had the lion share of third parties and dealings due to the enormous co-peration built painstankingly over 10 years.
Look at Devil may cry, or Grand theft auto or final fantasy. Each of these scenarios show how pathetic and incompetent sony were in dealing and forging a strong base with the very developers who carried sony for two generations. Instead they decided to trust their highly ineffectual first part development who apart from polyphony do not command any sort of critical or commercial acclaim at all
Instead they decide to blow their load over heavenly sword and lair. Truly atrocious by sony. Has anyone recently heard anything from rockstar about agent? Did sony get fooled like LA NOIRE fiasco? Versus would have been released long ago had any fool from sony realised the potential of this game and decided to pump their 20 million into square rather than rockstar who in the end made a mockery of them
At the start of this generation, Sony had the lion share of third parties and dealings due to the enormous co-peration built painstankingly over 10 years.
Look at Devil may cry, or Grand theft auto or final fantasy. Each of these scenarios show how pathetic and incompetent sony were in dealing and forging a strong base with the very developers who carried sony for two generations. Instead they decided to trust their highly ineffectual first part development who apart from polyphony do not command any sort of critical or commercial acclaim at all
Instead they decide to blow their load over heavenly sword and lair. Truly atrocious by sony. Has anyone recently heard anything from rockstar about agent? Did sony get fooled like LA NOIRE fiasco? Versus would have been released long ago had any fool from sony realised the potential of this game and decided to pump their 20 million into square rather than rockstar who in the end made a mockery of them
Sony can't, and never could, command third parties to complete games in a timely fashion. Twenty million to rush Versus out the door is a huge waste of money, that's how much it costs to build an Uncharted, which makes them more than a hundred million, the royalties of Versus might make them twenty million at most.
A moronic waste of cash.
A moronic waste of cash.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Why would you even ask this while cherry-picking only two spin-offs? Just go and look at his rep-sheet. He consistently plays a major role in most of the best SE games, and would probably be capable of so much more if he wasn't stretched so thin over so many titles. He's one of SE's biggest assets if not the absolute biggest one left.
So some website called Playstation Gang claims it's not cancelled and it will be shown at Tokyo Game Show. I wouldn't post it, but since it matches up with Kagari's claim, I'd risk posting it. Wouldn't otherwise.
http://playstationgang.com/final-fantasy-versus-xiii-is-not-canceled/
Sorry if it's bullshit.
http://playstationgang.com/final-fantasy-versus-xiii-is-not-canceled/
Sorry if it's bullshit.
Their source is Kagari.
TheChillyAcademic
Member
VGChampion
Member
I know I shouldn't be since I don't usually step into the "fanboy" type threads but I'm surprised people still talk like this in 2012.
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