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Lolo Jones on Twitter: Americans will do well in "da gun competition."

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? Your feigning outrage where their is no outrage to be found.

Not feigning any outrage, my friend.

You just assigned parts of that vernacular to my culture, or as you put it "their culture".

Seems like a pretty blanket statement of Black people to me.

Problem with your categorizing is, I'm not that person so, please, tell me more about my culture, since you seem to know it so well.
 

Godslay

Banned
I don't understand how drawing conclusions from his sentence deemed him as a racist or stereotypical. There exists a library of words that originated from the African American Vernacular. As such, it is common for people to associate these words with their culture.

There are certainly words that are associated with a segment of black culture. Even with that said, black culture is not homogeneous. Therefore when you associate words such as "da" with an entire race/culture/group you create a stereotype. Not every black person talks like your stereotypical portrayal of a black guy.
 
There are certainly words that are associated with a segment of black culture. Even with that said, black culture is not homogeneous. Therefore when you associate words such as "da" with an entire race/culture/group you create a stereotype.

DING DING DING

This guy gets it.
 
There are certainly words that are associated with a segment of black culture. Even with that said, black culture is not homogeneous. Therefore when you associate words such as "da" with an entire race/culture/group you create a stereotype.

I agree with this but you have to understand over the years people tend to follow a sort of "association by default" mechanism. Who knows where the word "da" came from or which ethnicity speaks it the most. But people tend to associate unique words and languages they hear, to groups (particularly among ethnic groups) that these words tend to be spoken by the most (and these words eventually become part of a culture). The questions becomes is this racists?
 

Riggs

Banned
Careful, now! It's only a matter of time before one of the Bacon-apologists implicitly calls you an angry black man!

Also, Lolo is delicious, but she's not even on the same planet as Rashida. <3
lol man, love it. Already labels from folks who are against labels.
 
I agree with this but you have to understand over the years people tend to follow a sort of "association by default" mechanism. Who knows where the word "da" came from or which ethnicity speaks it the most. But people tend to associate unique words and languages they hear, to groups (particularly among ethnic groups) that these words tend to be spoken by the most (and these words eventually become part of a culture). The questions becomes is this racists?

Do you think it would be racist if someone asked why [insert successful black person here] "talks like he's white?"


lol man, love it. Already labels from folks who are against labels.

lol k
 
I agree with this but you have to understand over the years people tend to follow a sort of "association by default" mechanism.

Yep and that is why that association is annoying when you say "their culture". While there are people that do speak like that, their culture isn't mine and never will be. It would be like saying that "GIT 'ER DUN" is White culture or "their culture. While that may be true for a segment of White people, it is hardly the truth for all.

Who knows where the word "da" came from or which ethnicity speaks it the most. But people tend to associate unique words and languages they hear, to groups (particularly among ethnic groups) that these words tend to be spoken by the most.

Right, and the problem begins when we perpetuate this and begin to assign, in a blanket fashion, this language to an entire group, as Godslay said as well.

The questions becomes is this racists?

Depends on the person and how they view it.
 

Riggs

Banned
There are certainly words that are associated with a segment of black culture. Even with that said, black culture is not homogeneous. Therefore when you associate words such as "da" with an entire race/culture/group you create a stereotype. Not every black person talks like your stereotypical portrayal of a black guy.
Thank you for conveying your point like an adult. Agreed btw. Holding my tongue on these other posters acting like children.
 
Do you think it would be racist if someone asked why [insert successful black person here] "talks like he's white?"

I see the point you're trying to make, I do agree it's a sort of subtle racism but in this case I don't believe or think the poster was trying be racists. Lets look at the hip hop culture. Broken words tend to be used within popular American hip hop music which draws it roots from African American culture and experience. People who the listen to the music draw the conclusion that the dialect used can be group with the African American culture b/c the words have be popularized through movements within the group.
 
Annnnd that's why it's a sensitive area for me. When I have people (I have never met before) give me a look of shock when I speak and then proceed to tell me, "Wow, you speak so well" it can be directly tied to an expectation that because I'm Black, I must speak "Ebonics".

And before you say, "Well, maybe they just felt you spoke well and wanted to tell you...gosh, that's not racist, ryutaro's mama!"just know that, throughout my entire life, I have been in the company of White friends that speak equally well (in some cases better) and I'm ALWAYS the one singled out for this "praise".

Not a single one of them have ever been told that.

Ever.

Have you ever come across the other spectrum where a person says that you sound like a black person talking like a white person but the person saying that to you is also black? Is that also racist? If your white friends singled you out, why didn't you tell them how you felt about it?


In this thread I have learned that many people don't know the difference between racial stereotyping and racism.

Everyone and I mean everyone uses stereotyping in their everyday usage to describe things, but it does not mean they are racist. The person banned wasn't being racist but used a racial stereotype. Some racial stereotypes however can be used by a racist person to assert some superiority. Some racial stereotypes can be felt by the intended "victim" which makes them feel inferior or that they feel that other people are saying those stereotypes to make them feel inferior depending on what they want to read from the statement.

I have come across racism many times in my life and you can tell straight away when someone is using a racial stereotype because they hate a particular race and want to assert some kind of superiority in contrast to when a racial stereotype is used that is not racist.

Stereotypes in general come from many collectivist cultures. In collectivistic cultures however, there is a tendency to make greater distinctions between groups rather than individuals because of the importance attached to the relationship of the self to the group.

This forum for example is a collectivistic culture in a way and there are many stereotypes associated with this forums members even if the stereotypes are not accurate (stereotypes hardly ever are) but people are attracted to noticing behavioural patterns and when they see it enough there is that tendency to attribute it to a group which then becomes a stereotype. It is not usually malicious in nature, but rather used as a shortcut to describe a group as fallable as it may be.
 

Godslay

Banned
I agree with this but you have to understand over the years people tend to follow a sort of "association by default" mechanism. Who knows where the word "da" came from or which ethnicity speaks it the most. But people tend to associate unique words and languages they hear, to groups (particularly among ethnic groups) that these words tend to be spoken by the most (and these words eventually become part of a culture). The questions becomes is this racists?

That's why I said it was stereotypical at best, racist at worst. I tried to make no assumptions whether the guy was racist. The problem with what you are describing in your mechanism, is that there really is no homogeneous "black" culture. So it's not surprising that it offends people, when someone attaches a negatively viewed saying to their race which may or may not have anything to do with how they speak, act, or live their lives.

With that I'm out.
 
I see the point you're trying to make, I do agree it's a sort of subtle racism but in this case I don't believe or think the poster was trying be racists. Lets look at the hip hop culture. Broken words tend to be used within popular American hip hop music which draws it roots from African American culture and experience. People who the listen to the music draw the conclusion that the dialect used can be group with the African American culture b/c the words have be popularized through movements within the group.

Okay. I don't think someone needs to intend to be racist in order for their statements to be considered "racist." My point is that, regardless of how people associate these words, the fact that someone's gut reaction is to ask "Why are you talking like [insert race] when you clearly look to me like you aren't of that race?!" belies a certain ignorance about race on the part of the speaker. Almost as if he's offended that someone would defy his stereotypical expectations of them. (I think that's the subtle racism you were talking about.)
 
Okay. I don't think someone needs to intend to be racist in order for their statements to be considered "racist." My point is that, regardless of how people associate these words, the fact that someone's gut reaction is to ask "Why are you talking like [insert race] when you clearly look to me like you aren't of that race?!" belies a certain ignorance about race on the part of the speaker. Almost as if he's offended that someone would defy his stereotypical expectations of them. (I think that's the subtle racism you were talking about.)

I see the point and I agree.
 

Blackace

if you see me in a fight with a bear, don't help me fool, help the bear!
Also the fact that twitter is pretty much designed to use shortened words like da, u, 2, instead of proper English..
 
Have you ever come across the other spectrum where a person says that you sound like a black person talking like a white person but the person saying that to you is also black? Is that also racist? If your white friends singled you out, why didn't you tell them how you felt about it?

I've mentioned it to them and my friends are cool, in that, I can have these dialogues with them and the defense mechanisms don't come up and we can have a healthy conversation about it all. We don't dive into the whole "talking White or Black" thing. Hell, I've known most of these friends since elementary or high school! I just talk like "me" to them and vice versa.

It's not my friends that have said this to me--they never would. It's people that I have never met before, that I meet in the presence of these friends.

In this thread I have learned that many people don't know the difference between racial stereotyping and racism.

You are correct but sometimes, the line blurs.

Everyone and I mean everyone uses stereotyping in their everyday usage to describe things, but it does not mean they are racist. The person banned wasn't being racist but used a racial stereotype. Some racial stereotypes however can be used by a racist person to assert some superiority. Some racial stereotypes can be felt by the intended "victim" which makes them feel inferior or that they feel that other people are saying those stereotypes to make them feel inferior depending on what they want to read from the statement.

Not every manifestation of racism is blatant. Some of it is "harmless" things that we have all just allowed to seep in and be accepted but at the end of the day, it's racial in nature. Like when we believe that people (regardless of race) are "all that way". It's dangerous when we start buying into these beliefs wholesale about people.

I have come across racism many times in my life and you can tell straight away when someone is using a racial stereotype because they hate a particular race and want to assert some kind of superiority in contrast to when a racial stereotype is used that is not racist.

I have too and problem, imo, is that people view themselves against these extreme cases and say, well, that isn't me, I'm not that, therefore I'm not racist. Well, the truth is that to me, the worst racism isn't the obvious type. It's the subtle type like, walking on the other side of the street when you see someone of another race coming, changing how you talk to them when you think you need to make them more comfortable ("urbanizing" your speech), complimenting on how one speaks, shifting uncomfortably on the elevator, etc. These things aren't weighed the same as the overt stuff but it's still there.

Stereotypes in general come from many collectivist cultures. In collectivistic cultures however, there is a tendency to make greater distinctions between groups rather than individuals because of the importance attached to the relationship of the self to the group.

It also comes from non-exposure to other races and so some start to buy into those stereotypes because it's all they see in media and whatnot and so it becomes easier to just subscribe to these until proven wrong. And...

This forum for example is a collectivistic culture in a way and there are many stereotypes associated with this forums members even if the stereotypes are not accurate (stereotypes hardly ever are) but people are attracted to noticing behavioural patterns and when they see it enough there is that tendency to attribute it to a group which then becomes a stereotype. It is not usually malicious in nature, but rather used as a shortcut to describe a group as fallable as it may be.

You agree and just said it as well.

Great post.
 

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
her-father-just-got-out-of-jail-whe.jpg


http://www.businessinsider.com/who-...er-than-training-for-the-olympics-2012-5?op=1

Well, that's her father. I think she might be black. Sometimes people will adopt a certain vernacular to feel like they're a part of a group, but that can often have some negative consequences for both the person and the group. So maybe people should stop and think about the full ramifications before they continue to perpetuate a stereotype.

On topic, Twitter has a way of demystifying famous people, and I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing long term. The rapid fire nature of the platform seems to discourage editing and self-reflection.
 
You know. I think I know why this and other topics are always so lame. One group of people lives the experience and the other doesn't. So something that seems offensive to one person, seems perfectly fine to another. And the knives come out when the person who hasn't lived it, begins to rationalize and downplay the other persons frustration.

Until you've been told that "You speak well", you won't really take offense to "Black people talk like this". It's true however that specific groups of people in specific parts of the world talk a certain way. It's like someone saying "Why does he talk/sound British" and people laughing it off. Where by comparison, saying "Why does X talk black?" brings a totally different mental iamge to the foreground. One that is based on ignorance and blanket stereotyping of a whole group of people. The "WTF's" at the original comment was about the blanket usage of it. If he had said "ghetto" or something along those lines, there is no issue. But the problem is in associating being black with talking or writing in a specific manner. One that isn't looked upon fondly by anyone.

I don't believe it was ban worthy though. Really seems like a big leap to ban someone for such a inane comment. Hopefully it isn't permanent and there's no resentment over it. I think it'd be best if people had just explained why they found that bewildering and left it at that.
 
So we really don't follow the amendments anymore. Freedom of speech no longer exists for the most part I would say. You will go to jail for threats, sure you can argue this till your blue in the face but I doubt in 1908 they were taking people to court for saying I'll kill you and other "sensitive things" the only one who is wrong a lot of the times is the one letting others words affect them.

Just as this thread proves, if you say something wrong you are gone. I understand that you agree to those terms, but when did everyone lose their skin?

I'm fine with the comment she made, I'm mostly fine with any comment though.

I have no reason to down anyone though, so don't get me wrong. I really try to be a good person to everyone. I really like to be equal to everyone, which actually sometimes this back fires just a bit.

Someone who I am seeing or whatever will expect me to think differently of them. .... yeah so even being truly equal doesn't work lol

People do lose their job, house etc over twitter and many agree they should. It's just words, sometimes it isn't even their true feelings? right?
 

Lkr

Member
Not gonna read through the shit storm, but pretty sure "Daaaa Brrrrssss" came from a bunch of white guys.

Fwiw I think people are overreacting to te tweet. Shooting is an Olympic sport and we have a very proud hunting and gun culture in America
 
So we really don't follow the amendments anymore. Freedom of speech no longer exists for the most part I would say.

The right to say whatever you want doesn't preclude you from others being offended by it. You can say whatever you want to say and it can be perceived as insensitive and there will be backlash.

See: Chik Fil A. No one has stopped them from standing up and saying what they wanted to say but just don't expect everyone to nod and be ok with it.

A large group is boycotting their establishments as a result.

Freedom of speech isn't always free.
 
Let me reitrate this for everyone: If you're talking with someone of a different social bracket than you. You shouldn't downplay peoples words or try to rationalize them away when there is history behind such things. Because people really are not equal and you really have to live in the other persons shoes to truly understand. Dialogue can only go so far without memories and experiences backing those words. If you tell a minority in this case that "They're like this". It's incredibly insulting because you don't and can't understand how many minorities try desperately to break out of those stereotypes and sadly enough; break away from themselves. And why is this? Because being white(On this issue of racial terminology) doesn't mean anything really. There is nothing inherently negative or stereotypically bad about being white. "You sound white" is a phrase thrown around so much along with "You dress white" that most of you would doubt, but happens way too damn much.

It denies people their own persona and attempts to force upon them the "correct" way of living. Something that I think we all know very well that was practiced in history and destroyed a lot of cultures. It's a back handed comment to imply that someone of a different colour is acting white. It implies that their colour is somehow inferior or wrong and that they're attempting to be something else. Something better
. I for one would love to get rid of a lot of these stupid "First black X", "First Asian X", "First Native American X" crap, because it's always so damn stupid. Maybe, just maybe; those people did what they did because it was a dream that they chased and not out of some tribalism sense of "Doing it for my people" crap that we should be way past.

When someone tells you(If you're something other than a minority in this case) that you're "Acting black" or "Acting Asian". Is it a positive thing or a negative thing that they're typically implying? Answer that honestly to yourself and you'll maybe understand a little. White people can be anything, others cannot.

Edit: I should add that this derailment is ridiculous and that I don't see the big deal with her comments. It's definitely insensitive though since it comes on the heels of a rather terrible tragedy.
 

Bleepey

Member
In her defence, America has such an ingrained gun culture she could quite fairly argue that it's related to that rather than the Colorado shooting.
 
So we really don't follow the amendments anymore. Freedom of speech no longer exists for the most part I would say. You will go to jail for threats, sure you can argue this till your blue in the face but I doubt in 1908 they were taking people to court for saying I'll kill you and other "sensitive things" the only one who is wrong a lot of the times is the one letting others words affect them.

Just as this thread proves, if you say something wrong you are gone. I understand that you agree to those terms, but when did everyone lose their skin?

I'm fine with the comment she made, I'm mostly fine with any comment though.

I have no reason to down anyone though, so don't get me wrong. I really try to be a good person to everyone. I really like to be equal to everyone, which actually sometimes this back fires just a bit.

Someone who I am seeing or whatever will expect me to think differently of them. .... yeah so even being truly equal doesn't work lol

People do lose their job, house etc over twitter and many agree they should. It's just words, sometimes it isn't even their true feelings? right?

You should know what "freedom of speech" means before commenting.

Hint: It only refers to the relationship between government and the people, not people with each other.

The Amendments have no sway on people interacting with other people.
 
Yeah, save it for something truly offensive (like Bacon's comments!)

I know it's the internet and all and we can't really know people. But what he said did not seem insulting on purpose. Ignorant? Sure. But to pull out the pitchforks and ban hammers is a tad too much. Explain why it's offensive, don't just attack, attack. I know it's frustrating having to explain it time and again. But we're not doing anything good by being so venomous.
 
I know it's the internet and all and we can't really know people. But what he said did not seem insulting on purpose. Ignorant? Sure. But to pull out the pitchforks and ban hammers is a tad too much. Explain why it's offensive, don't just attack, attack. I know it's frustrating having to explain it time and again. But we're not doing anything good by being so venomous.

To be fair, his very next post started out:

Are we really getting touchy over this?
 
You should know what "freedom of speech" means before commenting.

Hint: It only refers to the relationship between government and the people, not people with each other.

The Amendments have no sway on people interacting with other people.

I know, but people have to be stronger and understand what others say isn't that big of a deal, but they won't. Obviously if someone is constantly saying they will kill you, you should probably take notice though.
 
I know, but people have to be stronger and understand what others say isn't that big of a deal, but they won't. Obviously if someone is constantly saying they will kill you, you should probably take notice though.

So we should only care if our life is in danger. Let the ignorant and/or hateful and/or whatever continue on their path.

Seems like a path to progress if i've ever seen one.
 
I know, but people have to be stronger and understand what others say isn't that big of a deal, but they won't. Obviously if someone is constantly saying they will kill you, you should probably take notice though.

If Chick-Fil-A says that they don't like people simply because they are gay, should the gay people just be "stronger and understand what others said isn't a big deal"?

Seriously man, are you being serious here or just trolling?
 
So we should only care if our life is in danger. Let the ignorant and/or hateful and/or whatever continue on their path.

Seems like a path to progress if i've ever seen one.

If someone calls me a big white, or black something. Why should I let it bother me though? I just don't see it my-self but people truly feel the need to respond (fuss, fight, argue, kill) to words of others.

I'm cool with it my-self no matter what others say, I'll treat them like the next guy.
 
I wonder how long this thread would be if Baconsaurus asked why she was talking like Arnold Schwarzenegger.

What nationality is Arnold? Ask the average person what nationality he is. They'll say American. Ask them what colour he is, they'll say white. Notice how the colour of a person plays a big role in how they're perceived? Nobody would give a shit if Arnold talked like that. And he has one hell of a tongue. "Get to da choppa!" is a classic line. Nobody thinks less of him because of it. the other way around?

If someone calls me a big white, or black something. Why should I let it bother me though? I just don't see it my-self but people truly feel the need to respond (fuss, fight, argue, kill) to words of others.

I'm cool with it my-self no matter what others say, I'll treat them like the next guy.
That's fine. But like I said, when you're growing up a certain colour. You're growing up a different person. It's nothing to you, but it can be to many others.
 
What nationality is Arnold? Ask the average person what nationality he is. They'll say American. Ask them what colour he is, they'll say white. Notice how the colour of a person plays a big role in how they're perceived? Nobody would give a shit if Arnold talked like that. And he has one hell of a tongue. "Get to da choppa!" is a classic line. Nobody thinks less of him because of it. the other way around?

Uh...no, they won't.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
If someone calls me a big white, or black something. Why should I let it bother me though? I just don't see it my-self but people truly feel the need to respond (fuss, fight, argue, kill) to words of others.

I'm cool with it my-self no matter what others say, I'll treat them like the next guy.
I hear you on this.

If someone says something that is offensive, I might tell them they're wrong and choose not to do business with them in the future.

But this notion of "we must chastise you for your wrong view!!".. I don't buy it. Seems like the witch hunt of old re-adapted to a politically correct context. If you have the zeal to punish the shit out of someone for what they said.. I don't buy that.
 
What nationality is Arnold? Ask the average person what nationality he is. They'll say American. Ask them what colour he is, they'll say white. Notice how the colour of a person plays a big role in how they're perceived? Nobody would give a shit if Arnold talked like that. And he has one hell of a tongue. "Get to da choppa!" is a classic line. Nobody thinks less of him because of it. the other way around?


That's fine. But like I said, when you're growing up a certain colour. You're growing up a different person. It's nothing to you, but it can be to many others.

People would say Austrian every single time.
 
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