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Insomniac: Overstrike focus groups thought the old art style was for kids
- Thread starter Tagg9
- Start date
wat
AgentChris
Member
Well, that makes the designers on R2 look like talentless hacks.
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
Not seeing any contradiction there.
Movies have them too. It's how the theatrical cut of Blade Runner got trashed, especially the ending.
kinda off topic(maybe not since most people think about the CG blur made),but can you tell us how do you/other developers work with Blur Studio? do you give them a video or film storyboard of your game and they replicate it on CG or just give them some art and screens or some ideas and they work on that?
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
Trying to think back to that trailer to be honest. I think TJ wrote several version of the scripts. We gave them the in-game character models, sets, and weapons and they built new high-res versions and did the animation, effects, camera, rendering etc. The breathed a lot of life into the concept as it was at the time.
But really it was us giving a script (that they then worked with us on) and assets, and them taking all of that and making something awesome with it.
And if you know me, you know there's a ton of college football on right now (and on top of that, I'm battling food poisoning), which makes this even the more impressive ;-)
I know, I follow you on twitter.
whalleywhat
Member
Nobody would call a movie that was focus grouped art. It's why any director worth their salt wants final cut.
krypt0nian
Banned
This is going to turn out to be the biggest blunder in quite a while. =(
I hate to see this happen to such a great company, but consequences, man.
I hate to see this happen to such a great company, but consequences, man.
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
No worries. Thing is, I still am really excited about Fuse. Even despite all this. The game is fun and has a lot of great co-op stuff in it. We have more cool stuff coming soon. And the community feedback is being heard. New IP is always hard, but we're having a good time with it. Excited about the future.
I'm so sorry.
Messofanego
Banned
That made me lol.
I've answered this before with "bus stop bums". Even though I really hope it's not true, that some initial screening is done on candidates, I don't see a way to churn through new blood regularly without scraping at the absolute bottom of the barrel at some point.
I have a calendar reminder set to "refollow" Stevenson on Twitter, not coincidently set to early January / the end of the college football season.
jstevenson
Sailor Stevenson
I miss you!
Just because you use focus groups doesn't mean you don't do this.
Playtesting is a form of focus testing.
Isnt it true that focus groups only make the creators of a game be less creative? Alter their vision on account of a random sample of people with no experience in creating video games, and no real sense of what they would want in a final product? Is agreeing to this minority, who by the way is being monitored and will say what they have to say in front of their peers, really going to make your game more mainstream or is sticking true to what you want the game to be, instead if making it something you dont want it to be, have the possibility to achieve that too. Because in this case it seems to have robbed the game of its identity a little bit, making it far less stylized and far more boring and standard looking, and whatever jstevenson says, I cant believe the creatives on the team are happy with that. Perfect example of about to collapse, sad state of industry. Taking absolutely no risks because theyre no longer affordable.
Cramoss
Member
captmorgan
Banned
So basically a company does something you don`t like=fuck focus groups
A company does something you like=listens to the fans
From reading the threads here neogaf would defiantly be the worst focus group you could poll
A company does something you like=listens to the fans
From reading the threads here neogaf would defiantly be the worst focus group you could poll
krypt0nian
Banned
The outcry has got to tell them that they've at least lost most of the hardcore folks that pay attention to development. It depends on whether they think they can make it up with casuals that will buy "generic looking shooter #47"
Damaged goods perception at the outset is hard to recover from.
Focus groups sucks sure, but the thing that honestly bothered me was the interview on X Play where it was said that this new boring skin of the game "allowed them to do new things" which is nonsense, as Insomniac has always been celebrated for their weapon creativity, and that could have definitely worked with the far more evocative Overstrike.
First Name
Member
Damn, I saw that Overstrike trailer a while ago and was pretty excited for it. Since then I've always had it in the back of my mind. It had a lot of character.
"Fuse" looks really... generic in comparison. I know it's been said before and it seems a bit harsh but that's really the only impression I'm getting from it. Is the new game going to be as serious and "mature" as it looks? It looked like it had a lot more humor as Overstrike.
"Fuse" looks really... generic in comparison. I know it's been said before and it seems a bit harsh but that's really the only impression I'm getting from it. Is the new game going to be as serious and "mature" as it looks? It looked like it had a lot more humor as Overstrike.
IMO sometimes focus groups are really used poorly.
This really doesn't strike me as one of them.
So 12 year-olds who are trying to act big and older to be more tough thought the game was for children and they wanted some more serious tone? HAH. Insomniac has disappointed me throughout this whole generation except for Restisance:fall of man. Just when I thought they might make something cool (overstrike) , they cancel it and make some generic game that wont sell more than 200k on all platforms worldwide.
petethepanda
Member
This is hardly surprising news. We might decry the change but for "Joe Gamer" it's definitely more appealing.
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
Man, fuck this. RIP Insomniac, murdered by focus groups.
krypt0nian
Banned
Sales will show us if that's true. So many other generic looking shooters have disappeared into bargain bins. Thats not to say the more unique style was a instant success, but at least it looked different and seemed like it had a creative push.
AdventureRacing
Member
Says who? How many shooters with this sort of art style are met with anything but disappointing sales? Everyone wants to be a part of the COD crowd but frankly pretty much everyone bar a small few (COD, battlefield etc) are met with failure. If anything one of the few to buck this trend was borderlands and that's because they tried something different.
This game may end up being a break out hit for all i know but personally i think they have a lot of hard work ahead to stop this from being a huge bomb.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
12 year olds would say the same about Disney classics, demanding them to be more realistic and gritty.
Really? It's not like Insomniac was know for it's colorful games... I mean they did just finish Resistance.
alfredofroylan
Member
Why did they use 12 yr old kids to test a game that it's intended for a mature audience? Anyway I just checked the Overstrike trailer and it looked way better than Fuse, anyway I hope that this game doesn't end up like Syndicate.
Messofanego
Banned
At least that game was visually appealing.
Ploid 3.0
Member
Yeah, they are not new to the gritty look. The main thing that's a letdown is the difference in the change from Overstrike to FUSE. I can adjust to FUSE easily since I'm used to Resistance, it's just that I was so looking forward to Overstrike's style.
I'm sure the game will be great and if there's leveling, and good gameplay I'll spend a lot of hours in it.
Think of it as greiving over the death of Overstrike will take a while to get over.
Parakeetman
No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Not with the excessive bloom it had...
bloom is one graphical "feature" that needs to fucking die. Why? Because hardly any devs use it correctly without making shit look overdone. Almost as bad as the lense flare effects in some FPSes these days, BF3 being the latest culprit. Its almost as if the devs have never been outside before and seen that shit like that hardly happens realistically.
Both can be true, and I suspect frequently ARE. The games end up seeming more appealing to these "dudebros", but they also don't really care to buy multiple games like about all of us would, so they ignore the game anyway until maybe it's a $10 used title to check out on a slow weekend or something, and I imagine they'd just buy food and drink instead.
Hadn't heard about the change from Overstrike to Fuse until now and just checked the this trailer. Next time you're evolving an IP, please refrain from removing everything that makes it look like a cool/unique experience. Thanks.
The_Hitcher89
Member
Why would you admit this? Unless you're trying to repair the damage from a poorly received game by blaming the publisher for forcing you to adhere to focus groups, there's nothing to be gained by it as far as I can tell.
lazer_bean
Member
I think a lot of people forget that when R&C came out it was kids buying the game or parents buying it for kids. R&C is a franchise for younger people. That initial audience has grown up and the games (Especially the future series) have grown up with the audience story wise. But it still has the fun easy to grasp controls and gameplay that is aimed at the younger audience.
I think if you look at All4One you see this, it is a very easy game made for a younger audience, but that an older audience can still enjoy, and R&C has always had that. Much like children's films are aimed at children but will have jokes and deeper aspects for adults to enjoy as well. I think the game was a little too simple for the adult audience that had grown up with R&C but worked very well for the younger generation that are actually the target audience of the R&C series.
Since the first R&C the culture of the target age range has changed. Younger people more and more take in violent films and play the 18 games that their older siblings have. Unfortunately a cartoony style is still seen as for children by a vast majority of people, despite things like The Simpsons, Family Guy/American Dad, Anime, Borderlands and Team Fortress 2 showing that a cartoony style can work extremely well for adults. This is the nature of the world, We on GAF may be able to sit here and understand that cartoony=/=kiddy but we are not the majority, we are the minority. And big console games have to be made for the majority to succeed.
No one saw Bordlands success coming, I believe it sold very poorly to begin with, but it is a good game and word of mouth made it spread and Gearboxs continued support in the way of quality expansions helped get them a lot of fans and loyalty with them. Its look certainly helped it get noticed but that is just one facet of the game.
I think Overstrike in a R&C style wouldn't be taken seriously by the general population, sad but true. I also doubt in the reveal trailer style akin to TF2 it would struggle to be taken seriously by the population at large. Given what Insomniac wanted to achieve is story, feeling, weapons. I think the new art style works better for the game, as the looks should always do that. If looks make a game, then the core game can't be that good. In a medium like film where looks are everything, it is very important, but for a retail game, where you interact and play, gameplay will come first, and everything else should compliment it.
jstevenson has done a great job being vocal in this thread, telling us how Insomniac are listening to us. They are a very open company full of great people and they don't shy away from the fact they have made mistakes. How people can write them off, especially after reading the article, I don't know. Fuse is a game, and games are for playing. Once you have played it, then judge it as a package. Dismissing a game because of an art style is naive and only doing a disservice to yourself.
I think if you look at All4One you see this, it is a very easy game made for a younger audience, but that an older audience can still enjoy, and R&C has always had that. Much like children's films are aimed at children but will have jokes and deeper aspects for adults to enjoy as well. I think the game was a little too simple for the adult audience that had grown up with R&C but worked very well for the younger generation that are actually the target audience of the R&C series.
Since the first R&C the culture of the target age range has changed. Younger people more and more take in violent films and play the 18 games that their older siblings have. Unfortunately a cartoony style is still seen as for children by a vast majority of people, despite things like The Simpsons, Family Guy/American Dad, Anime, Borderlands and Team Fortress 2 showing that a cartoony style can work extremely well for adults. This is the nature of the world, We on GAF may be able to sit here and understand that cartoony=/=kiddy but we are not the majority, we are the minority. And big console games have to be made for the majority to succeed.
No one saw Bordlands success coming, I believe it sold very poorly to begin with, but it is a good game and word of mouth made it spread and Gearboxs continued support in the way of quality expansions helped get them a lot of fans and loyalty with them. Its look certainly helped it get noticed but that is just one facet of the game.
I think Overstrike in a R&C style wouldn't be taken seriously by the general population, sad but true. I also doubt in the reveal trailer style akin to TF2 it would struggle to be taken seriously by the population at large. Given what Insomniac wanted to achieve is story, feeling, weapons. I think the new art style works better for the game, as the looks should always do that. If looks make a game, then the core game can't be that good. In a medium like film where looks are everything, it is very important, but for a retail game, where you interact and play, gameplay will come first, and everything else should compliment it.
jstevenson has done a great job being vocal in this thread, telling us how Insomniac are listening to us. They are a very open company full of great people and they don't shy away from the fact they have made mistakes. How people can write them off, especially after reading the article, I don't know. Fuse is a game, and games are for playing. Once you have played it, then judge it as a package. Dismissing a game because of an art style is naive and only doing a disservice to yourself.
The_Hitcher89
Member
Probably been discussed, but would Sony have had Insomniac pay such attention to focus groups, or would they have allowed them complete freedom to create the product they wanted to create?
If the answer is the second, Insomniac dun goofed
If the answer is the second, Insomniac dun goofed
CambriaRising
Member
Never thought of this. It is certainly a good question to ask. The fact is that at a glance, this game now looks like every other generic shooter ever. This will not end well for them unless they completely knock it out of the park, which with their recent track record is unlikely.
If you have ever been on Xbox live, you know that there is no shortage of parents buying it for kids this generation.
This might seem to be a completely random jump, but I actually wonder if part of the problem too was how expensive those consoles deubted at, and the fact they failed to get lower fast. By the time they reached "average parent would buy it for their average kid" there simply weren't many of those games there outside of licensed drivel, and the more mature or "mature" games were more deeply settled in, with most people already going to the Wii for the kid friendly alternative.
Also makes me wonder if the Wii U refreshing things might help make that style more relevant again. It helps that Nintendo GETS IT, when it comes to kid friendly games they're basically Pixar with Sony being Dreamworks (well, as of the PS1/PS2 anyway, though it still kinda shows), and Microsoft being... I dunno, live action Disney? That seems like the kind of stuff young kids and some teenagers may like, while almost all adults would find it utterly repulsive.
Also makes me wonder if the Wii U refreshing things might help make that style more relevant again. It helps that Nintendo GETS IT, when it comes to kid friendly games they're basically Pixar with Sony being Dreamworks (well, as of the PS1/PS2 anyway, though it still kinda shows), and Microsoft being... I dunno, live action Disney? That seems like the kind of stuff young kids and some teenagers may like, while almost all adults would find it utterly repulsive.
Graphics Horse
Member
Have we got to the bottom of what caused the change from E3 Overstrike to Fuse? If it wasn't focus groups..
To some degree it was apparently what worked better with the gameplay and overall style they decided to go with, but I wouldn't be surprised if focus groups did basically say "go deeper", and they looked at HOW to best do that.