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[Graphics Horse]

To some degree it was apparently what worked better with the gameplay and overall style they decided to go with, but I wouldn't be surprised if focus groups did basically say "go deeper", and they looked at HOW to best do that.

Either them or just EA management in general.

Then again, when I think about Insomniac I usually only think about their cartoony games, and forget about the .uh, less cartoony games.

 

[Champomade]

If there's one thing I've learned, it's that focus groups are a great way to kill something original. Focus groups are awful. Every time I've seen candid video of a focus group, the people involved have given the worst opinions imaginable. But, I suppose they represent the general public, so that shouldn't be too surprising.

Have you ever noticed how everytime you're in a group and must make a decision on where to go (to eat for example), the group always ends with the worst choice possible (e.g. mcdonald's)?

Group thinking kills art

Being an artist and having a vision = going against the masses

 

[MoonsaultSlayer]

Have you ever noticed how everytime you're in a group and must make a decision on where to go (to eat for example), the group always ends with the worst choice possible (e.g. mcdonald's)?

Group thinking kills art

Being an artist and having a vision = going against the masses

Haha, I like that.

It's also a sign of weakness in a "if you can't beat em, join em" kind of way. Since they can't create something to stand apart, they go the safe road to please participants getting a chance to play something for free who otherwise won't give a shit upon release.

 

[Nirolak]

No one saw Bordlands success coming, I believe it sold very poorly to begin with, but it is a good game and word of mouth made it spread and Gearboxs continued support in the way of quality expansions helped get them a lot of fans and loyalty with them. Its look certainly helped it get noticed but that is just one facet of the game.

Borderlands had an NPD debut of 531K between 360 and PS3.

To put this in perspective, not only is this more than Max Payne 3 (Rockstar's heavily marketed May title), but Resistance 3 debuted at 180K and Resistance 2 debuted at 385K.

If Borderlands sold very poorly at the start, Resistance must be the astonishing failure story of this generation.

 

[GraveRobberX]

Borderlands had an NPD debut of 531K between 360 and PS3.

To put this in perspective, not only is this more than Max Payne 3 (Rockstar's heavily marketed May title), but Resistance 3 debuted at 180K and Resistance 2 debuted at 385K.

If Borderlands sold very poorly at the start, Resistance must be the astonishing failure story of this generation.

Didn't hurt that advertising paid off in fucking spades

That atmosphere/music really got eyeballs to gravitate towards it

Case in point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhKg64Wgr1Q

Look how Borderlands 2 live action is being played constantly, people need to see the product to go "Hey what the fuck was that all about?" *interest piqued*

Resistance 2 got 1 week of Alarm horn commercials that faded away quickly, R3 was more of a sell Move + Sharpshooter and have R3 as a background set-piece

 

[Toppot]

Borderlands had an NPD debut of 531K between 360 and PS3.

To put this in perspective, not only is this more than Max Payne 3 (Rockstar's heavily marketed May title), but Resistance 3 debuted at 180K and Resistance 2 debuted at 385K.

If Borderlands sold very poorly at the start, Resistance must be the astonishing failure story of this generation.

I believed wrong it seems, thank you for correcting me =]. I still think it ended up doing way better than anybody thought.

 

[diffusionx]

After all the complaining I went back and looked at the Overstrike trailer. The problem wasn't so much the fact that they went in a less realistic direction, it's that it just looked bad. Borderlands went from super generic to cartoony and looked fantastic - far better than Overstrike. The character design, environments, monster design, etc., all look superb. Overstrike reminded me of a bad Saturday morning cartoon than anything else. So maybe that's where the "style for kids" came from. Not the fact that it was stylized but that it was ugly.

Of course the solution to this isn't necessarily to go completely generic. I don't get the Insomniac love.

 

[Massa]

After all the complaining I went back and looked at the Overstrike trailer. The problem wasn't so much the fact that they went in a less realistic direction, it's that it just looked bad. The characters looked crappy. Of course the solution to this isn't necessarily to go completely generic. Borderlands went from super generic to cartoony and looked fantastic. The character design, environments, monster design, etc., all look superb. Overstrike reminded me of a bad Saturday morning cartoon than anything else.

I don't get the Insomniac love.

Their games are fun to play. Good controls, level design, humor.

Resistance 2 got 1 week of Alarm horn commercials that faded away quickly, R3 was more of a sell Move + Sharpshooter and have R3 as a background set-piece

Yep. Sony completely sent R3 off to die. And to add to Nirolak's 180k first month sales numbers, it also sold 50k in bundles with that awful sharpshooter piece of plastic crap.

 

[GraveRobberX]

I believed wrong it seems, thank you for correcting me =]. I still think it ended up doing way better than anybody thought.

The DLC's helped tremendously

People kept going back to it, that was the best part about the game

If the DLC was just money grabs, it would have lost a lot of sales, but due to a steady release of it by upping level cap, more skill points, more weapons, people always went back

Their games are fun to play. Good controls, level design, humor.

Yeah the Ratchet and Clank series
Whenever Insomniac goes the serious route they fail to meet their own expectations

There best game to date is A Crack in Time
R1 started out right, 2 just faltered, 3 was damaged due to 2, plus the identity of the game shifted 3 fucking times with-in 3 titles, I don't think I've ever seen that in another series
The only thing constant was Chimera, that is all

 

[diffusionx]

Their games are fun to play. Good controls, level design, humor.

R&C are fun games, I agree with that. But they're not like top-class-in-the-industry titles. Crack in Time was their best game and it's not like it blew me away or anything. And Resistance, bleh. Awful.

IMO of course, before anyone gets upset.

 

[Massa]

R&C are fun games, I agree with that. But they're not like top-class-in-the-industry titles. Crack in Time was their best game and it's not like it blew me away or anything. And Resistance, bleh. Awful.

IMO of course, before anyone gets upset.

Crack in Time completely blew me away. The hover boots are my favorite innovation in 3D platformers since I first played Mario 64.

And Resistance 3 is my favorite shooter campaign of any game on the PS3, so there. Incredibly well designed game. They nailed it.

 

[Nirolak]

I believed wrong it seems, thank you for correcting me =]. I still think it ended up doing way better than anybody thought.

Oh, I totally agree. For example:

Didn't hurt that advertising paid off in fucking spades

That atmosphere/music really got eyeballs to gravitate towards it

Case in point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhKg64Wgr1Q

Look how Borderlands 2 live action is being played constantly, people need to see the product to go "Hey what the fuck was that all about?" *interest piqued*

Resistance 2 got 1 week of Alarm horn commercials that faded away quickly, R3 was more of a sell Move + Sharpshooter and have R3 as a background set-piece

These ads ran for a grand total of one week because that's all Take-Two was willing to spend:

CVG: Analyst Michael Pachter infamously predicted that the first Borderlands was going to be 'sent out to die' into a highly competitive holiday season. Why do you think the game was such as commercial success?

Randy Pitchford: Because it was a good game.

CVG: You think that's really it? There are many good games that don't sell well. Borderlands was a new IP, that shipped in a crowded shooter market, that some analysts said wouldn't sell well even before the first review came in.

Randy Pitchford: Well, what else could it be?

CVG: I really don't know why it outperformed. That's why I'm asking.

Randy Pitchford: People bought the game, played it, and told their friends about it, and it snowballed. That's exactly what happened, people thought it was an amazing game and recommended it.

You didn't even play the first Borderlands, Rob, yet you've just played the sequel for an hour and you said you liked it! You said you don't even usually like playing those kinds of games. Isn't that interesting?

CVG: It is interesting. You think the first game has sold about five million copies because of word-of-mouth.

Randy Pitchford: That's the only explanation. There weren't television commercials after the first week [laughs].

Source: http://www.computerandvideogames.co...dget-but-devoted-to-its-roots/?page=2&site=uk

(As a note, it actually ended up at 6 million copies.)

That said, Borderlands came out in October 2009, so I do feel its success was well known around the industry by the time we saw Overstrike's trailer.

Obviously the art style wasn't the end all be all of its success, but I do honestly believe it was a large component in getting the game noticed and making it memorable when seen in any form of advertising.

 

[GraveRobberX]

Oh, I totally agree. For example:

These ads ran for a grand total of one week because that's all Take-Two was willing to spend.

Well in NYC those ads ran heavily

I wasn't interested in BL till those commercials started airing

Saw it multiple times (that's how I remember BL burned into my brain)

I do consider word of mouth played a huge role, cause 3+ on my friends list bought it just because of what I was telling them + co-op goodness (even with shitty Gamespy servers)

 

[Eusis]

Well in NYC those ads ran heavily

I wasn't interested in BL till those commercials started airing

Saw it multiple times (that's how I remember BL burned into my brain)

I do consider word of mouth played a huge role, cause 3+ on my friends list bought it just because of what I was telling them + co-op goodness (even with shitty Gamespy servers)

Maybe they beat it to death in that one week they had?

 

[Nirolak]

nirolak, had borderlands 2 already sold that much already? because you only have pics of that but if you're talking about the first game, the last word i'd use to describe it is colorful.

Well, I can finally follow this up with a good answer:

Video game hardware saw the biggest decline, over 39 percent from last September. 2K Games' popular co-op shooter sold 1.48 million units for the month, though it wasn't enough to stop Madden, which had the benefit of a full month of sales tracking. New Super Mario Bros. 2 sold more than 295,000 units in its second month.

“Borderlands 2, with its bazillion guns-a-blazing, exceeded the first month’s unit sales of the first game which launched in October 2009 by 234%," said NPD analyst Anita Frazier.

Source: https://www.gameinformer.com/b/news...n-borderlands-2-top-september-game-sales.aspx

By god, it seems an extremely colorful M-rated cartoon game sold exceptionally well in NPD!

For comparison:

September 2012:
2. Borderlands 2 (360, PS3, PC) Take Two Interactive - 1.48M

Setpember 2011:
07. Resistance 3 (PS3) Sony (Corp) - 180K