It's not about the hardware but more about how much devs push it.
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PS4 Rumors , APU code named 'Liverpool' Radeon HD 7970 GPU Steamroller CPU 16GB Flash
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From the Xbox thread -
I just got messaged this. I haven't laugh so hard in a long time. 4.2 Teraflops? Really?
http://pastebin.com/N8rXsnxr
I just got messaged this. I haven't laugh so hard in a long time. 4.2 Teraflops? Really?
http://pastebin.com/N8rXsnxr
The specs make sense and are plausible. The CPU being empty is wierd. If Sony waits for 9000 series cards things could get awesome, but I am concerned about the fail of an OS, no BC, and no changes to dualshock
.CambriaRising
Member
The specs make sense and are plausible. The CPU being empty is wierd. If Sony waits for 9000 series cards things could get awesome, but I am concerned about the fail of an OS, no BC, and no changes to dualshock
It isn't happening.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Would love PS4 to have those specs but we all know that not happening .
Still depending on when sony bring out there console the specs could get a little better .
Still depending on when sony bring out there console the specs could get a little better .
If the system isn't launching until fall 2014then there is plenty of time for OS work. Also, design work for the controller would also not be a high priority right now.The specs make sense and are plausible. The CPU being empty is wierd. If Sony waits for 9000 series cards things could get awesome, but I am concerned about the fail of an OS, no BC, and no changes to dualshock
I can tell you that a dev I know is saying that sony is pushing mandatory 60fps in dev houses currently being lined up for launch. I thought that really strange, but if they are pushing mandatory 3d, then this makes sense.
Mandatory 60fps 2D and 30fps 3D for 1st party titles? Im okay with that.
Can you ask your source if these specs have any sort of validity :-/. These are too delicious.
Canis lupus
Member
The specs make sense and are plausible. The CPU being empty is wierd. If Sony waits for 9000 series cards things could get awesome, but I am concerned about the fail of an OS, no BC, and no changes to dualshock
No, PS4 ain't launching Holidays 2014.
Obviously not, but they'll still manage far better visuals than Star Wars 1313, and with similar or better frame rates to boot.
AstroNut325
Member
I'm guessing that rumor is poorly worded. I'm pretty sure it will be a sea islands GPU with some features and capabilities of the volcanic islands. This seems pretty common in the console space where a customized GPU will have some advancements not available in desktop GPUs at time of launch.
Just keep posting so someone from Sony relays the message we need a two 7970's of power in the PS4.
If it's still very engineer run we might get it
i find it funny when people claim ps4 is pure gaming while 720 is multimedia console ... it makes no sense at all since ps3 is multimedia console already. together with 2.5 GB reserved for OS, because "it will be dvr" means one thing - they have no clue about what they are talking about.
On one hand I want PS4/Xbox720 to be massive upgrades to counter the "longer generation cycle" and so that the level multi-plat games will be limited to will be reasonably high, but on the other middle to late 2014 is too late IMO.
A fighting game made for such hardware should be pretty hnnnngh worthy, and devs like Naughty Dog will certainly blow me away.
A fighting game made for such hardware should be pretty hnnnngh worthy, and devs like Naughty Dog will certainly blow me away.
These rumors only sound over the top because people was all set for PS4 & Xbox 3 to take a Wii like approach & not the normal Next-Gen jump.
around 4.2TFLOPs is what we would be getting from a PS2 to PS3 Generational Jump in power.
I just hope this rumour is true thats all guys :-/. Can't blame a guy for 'dreaming'. I can wait til 2014 if that means more 60 fps games.
I agree but I don't think MS is going with a 2.2 Teraflop system either. I think they will be closer to 4 than we expect.
I agree but I don't think MS is going with a 2.2 Teraflop system either. I think they will be closer to 4 than we expect.
Have you put any thought to my last question to you?
I never expected the PS720 to take the Wii approach, never made any sense to me, but these quotes still either sound over the top or bullspecs much like the figures I mentioned for the 360 and PS3. IF MS or Sony do try to pass these systems off as having 4.2TFLOPs, I don't expect them to be programmable flops.
Running that kind of power would be costly, cooling that kind of power would be costly, and I don't think either MS or Sony are willing to lose billions and billions on their next system.
Would love for it to be true, but I don't see it happening.
BruiserBear
Banned
So much bullshit in that post. lol
So many giveaways that it's some dude just making shit up. MSRP's a year ahead of launch? How the fuck would he know? Also, they're way too high. Not happening.
and that's just for starters.
I'm already in Dream Land!
McHuj
Member
I'm gonna assume dyslexia, and say he meant 2.4 Tflops which is believable and would make the 9770 over 7770 1.1GHz edition about a ~70% gain in performance. Which should be expected:
8770: 1.83Tflops = 7770 1.408 Tflops + 30% Gain
9770: 2.38Tflops = 8770 1.8 Tflops + 30% Gain
At 20nm, that's probably do able for a console, unfortunately, I don't see 20nm being available next year in large volumes.
8770: 1.83Tflops = 7770 1.408 Tflops + 30% Gain
9770: 2.38Tflops = 8770 1.8 Tflops + 30% Gain
At 20nm, that's probably do able for a console, unfortunately, I don't see 20nm being available next year in large volumes.
TBH thats not a big deal. 3D is only usable in 720p mode, so you could have 1080p/30 (or 60) for 2D mode and have roughly the same amount of detail in 720p/60 for 3D.
(technically you can run 1080p in 3D but you'd be limited to 24Hz which is probably too low for gaming)
Sounds like a whole bunch of BS.
Well, you're talking about ~8x raw fillrates for games designed around current console limitations, so it's not likely to be ROP limited (i.e. games now are pretty conservative with transparencies and overdraw. Shadow resolutions are also pretty poop). With MSAA enabled, PC cards are in an even better situation because they sport single cycle 4x sampling and much higher Z-rates (depth - shadows, overdraw).
32ROPs are probably going to be enough for a long while. The question is if they'll spend the transistors on more ROPs vs other features (ALUs, caches, rasterizers, TMUs etc). In 2005, 8 ROPs was half of the max that high end PCs were sporting. The standard ROP has fluctuated somewhat in capabilities since then (e.g. sampling rates, render target support, blending capabilities, floating point rates etc). Ultimately, they'll want to balance it with the target bandwidth being provided (and shared with texturing/filtering etc.)
32 ROPs may be a given for middle-end PC hardware, but I wouldn't necessarily assume it to be so for consoles given the conservative rumours (we know very little as it is anyway). 32ROPs@1GHz certainly makes more sense for >1080p resolutions or Multi-monitor resolutions that do demand such obscene fillrates (aside from raw math per pixel). There are probably better things to have given a more limited transistor & power budget vs a 200W+ GPU though.
----
Btw, while the GTX580 had 48 ROPs, it could still only handle/process 32 colour pixel (fragments) per clock. The extra ROPs did give extra Z-fill though, but again, games are hardly pushing things on that front at the moment. The 48-ROPs had to do with how they were tied to the memory controllers, so a 384-bit bus demanded more ROPs to be connected in HW. Since the rasterizers (four of them) could only handle 8 fragments/pixels per clock, you'd only get 32 pixels/clock (non-Z).
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Even the texture rates are significantly higher for PC, and with texture resolutions not that much higher than console, the demand on filtering isn't going to be significant until you start raising quality settings on certain texture-heavy shaders, but still... we're not doing anything particularly heavy yet due to console considerations.
500MHz.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
The specs make sense and are plausible. The CPU being empty is wierd. If Sony waits for 9000 series cards things could get awesome, but I am concerned about the fail of an OS, no BC, and no changes to dualshock
I'm a bit puzzled as to why you say these "make sense" and are "plausible."
It would be great to see this happen, but I'd like an explanation from you as to why these seem realistic in your opinion.
The 8850 is rumored to be 3 teraflops.
The 8870 is rumored to be 4 teraflops.
Source: http://videocardz.com/34981/amd-radeon-hd-8870-and-hd-8850-specifiation-leaked
The specs seem plausible
, but GAF believes it not to be true . He does have a lot of other information we should consider. Specifically why 6 gb of RAM? Why no change in Dualshock? Why no BC?KojiKnight
Member
Anyone think that end of 2014 as some are suggesting may be too late? That would still put it 2 years out from today... can anyone really imagine going 2 more E3's without a PS4? With how anemic console gaming has been sales wise in just the last year, to try and pull another 2 years out of it may be suicide for Sony.
A. I'm dreaming
B. The 8870 is 4 teraflops at 160 watts. The switch to the 9000 series architecture could achieve the same performance with a lower wattage and a different series.
C. Samsung is leaving the GDDR5 market. GDDR5 is already hot and expensive, and will be even more expensive when Samsung leaves. (Links are provided in a earlier post in this thread).
Jeff_Rigby suggests 3D stacked RAM, which is why Sony is waiting for 2014. The pastebin suggests a 2014 PS4. 2014 meets the timetablefor 3D stacked DDR4 RAM in high quantities, the 9000 series AMD cards, and cheaper/cooler systems.
Microsoft might not have any choice but to wait till 2014.
http://www.computerandvideogames.co...delay-xbox-720-launch-to-spring-2014-pachter/
it would be painful to wait until 2014, but it looks like there is a confluence of technological forward steps that come together to create a big jump forward in power Vs watt and memory bandwidth that might make it sensible to wait, rather than force something out that'll be outdated more quickly.
If they do delay until 2014 I'll need to build a new gaming PC though to keep me sane.
If they do delay until 2014 I'll need to build a new gaming PC though to keep me sane.
Precisely. If only for the RAM alone, it sounds awesome. Both MS and Sony could make the jump to 6 gb of RAM if they wait for the 3D stacked ultra wide bus RAM to filter through. Jeff actually posted papers with timelines. DDR4 could replace GDDR5 in this case.
And if both Sony and MS jump to the 9000 series
, well we are in for delicious times ahead.Who the fuck knows, but 3D Stacked looks like the only plausible long term economic solution to the problem. The 2.5D/3D RAM will allow cheaper RAM to perform at much faster levels since they are arranged in a way to increase performance and reduce complexity. Everyone keeps laughing at the suggestion that 2014 is the year, but even fucking Pachter agrees that 2014 might be the year.
Sidewinder
Member
2014? Wow that's insane, when I get home I'll hug my PC.
Nintendo will be swimming in money again until then.
Nintendo will be swimming in money again until then.
Late 2014 launch could bring better perf per watt and more memory, but MS cant wait for that. Their current exclusive offering for X360 is abyssmal [h4 for late 2012 and unwanted gears for early 2013]. They need new console.
Sony on the other hand has much more studios, and in 2013 we will see god of war, last of us and beyond. They can conceivably wait for 2014 if they really want.
Sony on the other hand has much more studios, and in 2013 we will see god of war, last of us and beyond. They can conceivably wait for 2014 if they really want.
McHuj
Member
Stacked DDR4 could provide a lot more bandwidth (assuming it's manufacturable). Even though the actual rates might be smaller, through stacking you can achieve an effective very wide bus. The holy grail is stacked memory.
McHuj
Member
The 8850 is rumored to be 3 teraflops.
The 8870 is rumored to be 4 teraflops.
Source: http://videocardz.com/34981/amd-radeon-hd-8870-and-hd-8850-specifiation-leaked
The specs seem plausible
I saw that. I'm just not optimistic in those leaks. I think the 8xxx series will only be about 30% more powerful than the 7xxxx.
No BC because there won't be cell processor in it.
I think Sony's timetable will be dictated by Microsoft's. If MS launch the new Xbox in Fall 2013, I can't see Sony giving them an entire year unchallenged. At the very latest I see the PS4 launching in Spring or early Summer 2014 if MS pulls off a fall 2013 launch. If the new Xbox slips into Q1 2014, then, yeah, I could see Sony launching the PS4 in early Fall of 2014.
Except, if PS4 is trully 2x more powerful and able to showcase that power fast. Then delay would be somewhat justified.
PS3 launched 1 year later, and it took several years until visibly better games started appearing on it, and even then, those differences could not be easily spotted by general population.
Hardly, Uncharted 1 looked better than any 360 game at the time, that was one year.
But it did not look significantly better, so that ordinary people would start noticing it.
lightchris
Member
That's why I believe that rendering at 4K for Wipeout HD, which RSX (nearly) managed to do in 1080p and 60 fps, should be no problem on any half-decent PC graphics card or the PS4. Not saying that fillrate isn't important in general.
Okay. Wikipedia said 550 MHz, I believed that. Do you have a source?
You won't find a confirmed source since Sony has the RSX locked down under NDA, that is the true speed of the card though.
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