Seems like a good chance for that. GT5 content with improvements and in 4K.
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PS4 Rumors , APU code named 'Liverpool' Radeon HD 7970 GPU Steamroller CPU 16GB Flash
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They could easily pass it off as launch software. People will buy it in droves, but they need to add a couple more effects in the game. 3D trees would be a start.
????
gundamkyoukai
Member
Things change now i won't say that thuway is not optimistic but people just like to say others wrong without even making a point .
Just few months ago people were saying that PS4 or 720 can't have more than 4GB of ram some were saying 2 and calling other people crazy for wanted more.
Now both might have over 4GB , say they will support 4k and people jump on you when your not even talking about games.
If Samsung stop making GDDR5 they are going to have to look for other options and were not talking about exotic tech Vita already uses 2.5D stacking if i remember right .
AgentChris
Member
They could easily pass it off as launch software. People will buy it in droves, but they need to add a couple more effects in the game. 3D trees would be a start
My man.
Yes. People hate any sort of enthusiasm or even a slight suggestion that things could be postponed and better. GAF has this set idea that next-gen console's will not cross the 2T mark, will launch in late 2013, and will not have any thing more than 4 gb of RAM. They ignore the plausability that 9000 series tech could serve a cooler and perhaps more powerful console, and that RAM can be increased in droves if 3D stacking and DDR4 become a mainstay.
Jeff has done most of the research, shit, all you have to do is go read it.
What's hilarious is, posters on Beyond3D seems to think MS will go for a 4 teraflop console, but Sony will go 1.8 teraflop. Fanboys everywhere.
specialguy
Banned
Huh?
The leaks we have state:
Xbox next: 8GB of DRR3/4+ESRAM.
PS4 2-4GB of GDDR5+256 bit buss
These are simply two different approaches to system design, nothing more nothing less, and 2014 will change absolutely nothing. If Sony wants 8GB of RAM, copy the MS design right now. 2014 has nothing to do with anything.
Where is all this Samsung leaving the GDDR5 business coming from? See, that's the kind af amateurish kneejerking I'm talking about. You're referencing CHARLIE as a source. The guy is a proven nut. And even if they do, I see zero evidence GDDR5 is somehow going to stop existing, being it's in every high end graphics cards right now, and there is no substitute.
DDR4 is going to start right where DDR3 leaves off speedwise, and it's way way below GDDR5. The only reason it's speculated Xb3 may use DDR4 is cost reasons. DDR4 will drop in cost as it will be the next PC standard, where DDR 3 could be a legacy memory that becomes more expensive. Although the GDDR3 in PS3/360 is outdated too and they seem ok, *shrug*
2.5D memory...can you point me too where that is being used ANYWHERE? It's just an unproven tech and there's no way it's going in 720/PS4. It's a long way from real usage.
specialguy
Banned
Because everybody was assuming GDDR5 in the systems. With GDDR5 there are strong technical and cost roadblocks to >2GB.
With DDR3 not so.
The problem is DDR3 is slow as shit.
It's tradeoffs. People here are just thinking "omg Xbox is gonna have more RAM than PS4 what are we gonna do!" But it's not that simple. The RAM in PS4 will be a lot higher performing.
It's up to you to believe or not to believe. The rumors you just posted about system specs are about as credible as Charley. They mean JACK SHIT.
What we do know for sure is 2.5D is being used in the Vita. Go look it up. We also know that stacking RAM will allow for cheaper RAM to be used with an increased transfer rate.
When RAM is stacked, it is closer together, which eliminates latency. Hence DDR3/DDR4 = GDDR5 speeds.
We also know MS joined the HMC memory consortum, which is the leading push on 3D memory. But hey, we're all knee-jerking.
The age old joke is Gran Turismo has yet to make a decent looking tree.
Going by that picture you would think GT5 looked like a PS2 game but we all know that's not the case.
specialguy
Banned
i'd love to make a bet with you over this stuff lol. but screw bets that take 1+ year to discover the winner. Like I bet a guy 50 the next Xbox wasnt launching in 2012 when it seemed like 80% of GAF was sure of it.
But there's no way you're right.
Also I dont think the Vita uses 2.5D IIRC. It just literally stacks two chips on top of each other (with no performance benefit) or something.
gundamkyoukai
Member
http://chipworksrealchips.blogspot.com/2012/07/sonys-ps-vita-uses-chip-on-chip-sip-3d.html
By the way i also taking about the SOC.
Cool story bro. I'm using facts to predict a possible outcome. An outcome where both the consumer and manufacturer win. But hey, Jeff, onQ, I, and the majority of people who've contributed to providing the technical papers, powerpoints, and enormous amount of tech news are full of shit.
specialguy
Banned
Which is why Microsoft joined the consortium and we are predicting 2014.
gundamkyoukai
Member
I never said it was 3D just talking about that tech that could show up and be used for the SOC.
I think Xbox 3 and PS4 will be roughly 10-20% within each other. That said, both should be beast.
specialguy
Banned
Some people just get too wild with wishful speculation all around, same type of runaway freight trains tended to happen in the wii u spec threads.
TheGreyHulk
Member
This whole 4TF GPU rumour started back yesterday when someone posted a site (that could be created by any of us in 15 mins) listing it in 'updated PS4 specs'.
I for one trust the OP leaked specs in this thread and think that Sony will go with a 2TF GPU at most and maybe be pushed into doubling the Ram to 4GB from 2GB.
You have to be pretty mad to suddenly think Sony have went from a 1.8TF GPU and 2GB of Ram to a 4TF GPU and 8+ GB's of Ram in a few months.
GTA 4 cost $100 million to create on a 250 GFLOP GPU, how much do you think triple A game development would cost pushing a 4TF GPU lol...
We're just going to have to agree to disagree.
My prediction is that we will see a 3Ghz 4 core AMD CPU / 2TF GPU / 4GB of Ram PS4 in shops by March 2014.
If they wait until late 2014 (giving Nintendo over two years of a head start and MS at least 9 months) and go with a 4TF GPU with much more Ram, i will bump this thread and apologise to you
It's completely possible to get a 4TFLOP GPU with today's tech. An HD 7970 ghz edition is already a 4TFLOP gpu and that's already in people's PCs right now. 2011 tech. It's not unreasonable at all.
GTA4 cost a lot because they went from single threaded engine to a multi threaded engine. A lot of engines for last gen were based on a single thread of code running at a time. R* had to create a new engine and waste a ton of time trying to get that ambitious engine to run on hardware that really wasn't powerful enough to handle it. That's why we got blurry GTA4 and low FPS on consoles. There was a lot of dev time on this game. Then you have music license fees, actors, and all these other crap you need to make a high production film like game.
More power does not equate to more cost. The engines are ready now if devs want to license tech for next gen. Software is ready, but the hardware is not and these new engines are super efficient. You can change shit in real time on UE4 without leaving the scene that's running as you edit it. It's crazy. I think the costs will remain similar to what they are now. It's really up to the dev, but with more power means less time needed to force a game to work on hardware that's not up to par.
Now, i don't believe Sony will opt for the biggest and baddest tech to shove into the PS4. They're in financial turmoil right now and they'll still have to deal with the thermal/power envelope of consoles since consumers want something sleek and not some behemoth desktop case. I think they'll be going with an 8000 series chip since this will be the revision of the AMD GCN architecture seen on the 7000 series and should bring more efficiency to the table. 2 TFLOP level GPU will be more than enough. It's a crap load more than what you can find in the PS360's entire system output and this is just a GPU.
SwimmingwithChickenz
Banned
Bookmarked for future ownage. I'ld bet that the next Gran Turismo will be in 4k on the PS4.
Where did this notion that more powerful HW automatically equals higher dev costs come from?
gundamkyoukai
Member
It's part of the fun of next gen , for me i not looking for PS4 to have anything over 2- 2.5TF GPU .
If it does well that is fucking great if does not o well i have my expectation in check when comes to the power of these systems.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
It will be utterly dumb of Sony to release hardware in 2014. 2 years after Nintendo and 1 year after MS. Sony will lose a a lot of market share like they did with the PS3, so they can satisfy few people. This is not going to happen. Sony will release their console as soon MS release theirs or delay it 3 month max. There´s no way in hell that MS and Sony will give Nintendo 2 years head start in the market. And anyone who think that Sony will launch a beast of a hardware to satisfy few people think again.
I say this because some people are expecting GT4k, I don't think that's happening this gen, maybe 9th gen I'm guessing. And that what cost though?
I agree, I understand people are hyped about unannounced consoles and what they possibly can do but too much hype can lead to very bad places, I've learned that the hard way.
Lol go on and look forward to that ownage all you want, I don't take speculation discussions that serious.
I am curious why you're so confident we'll see real next Gen titles natively running at 4K though.
I could see Sony doing a series of 4k remasters for a lot of their PS3 games. Those and probably some PSN games will the the only games that will likely run in 4k but they'll be able to use it to claim 4k gaming. 4k video support and BDXL are almost guaranteed.
gundamkyoukai
Member
I could see GT 4K on PS4 but it won't natively running at 4K .
I mean GT5 had 1080p but it was not full 1080p , i just hope that PD does a great 1080p version and just up res it to 4k \ 3D while losing effects , car count etc etc .
GT is one of the few games i think that going to natively run in 1080p next gen .
bigtroyjon
Member
Shitty developers and publishers that were unable to follow a budget and make a game within their means.
Agreed, I can see this happening.
As long the framerate is 60fps locked during race and replay. As for the resolution, I would be happy enough with full 1080p.
I just saw you make some cracks about the ps4, or maybe 720 as well, and yes assumed. With how people have been behaving around here, can you blame me? Also if by one console, you're talking about the ps360, then sure.
So I or others are not allowed to crack jokes and poke fun? I was around GAF for the WiiPS360 console wars and we're still in the tame stages.
Wait till the console's are unveiled and people will make jokes with regards to what they look like, what they do, what they could do, what they didn't do. Oh and if they are hideously priced...if I was you I would not wanna be around when the GIF's start pouring out, since you seem so sensitive.
lightchris
Member
So far, history told us so. But of course it depends. If you just want higher image quality (resolution, AA, AF), higher viewing distances, better lighting or maybe better textures, costs will not rise. Some devs already indicated though that they want to put much more detail on screen. For this, you need more and better content. And this is costly, as long as you don't want some generic generated content spread over the place.
700MHz GDDR3 was cutting edge at the end of 2005 though.
At any rate, focuses change, and if they want high density/high capacity, DDR3/4 is the way to go. They'd just need a high-bandwidth on-die/on-package cache to make up for the poop bandwidth.
(FWIW, even 8Gbit/16Gbit densities are meant to be achieved with stacking - not TSV stacking though, too expensive.)
Performance flops are directly corrolated with sales flops
Glorified G
Member
Sony will have Smartglass, it's Vita and PS Mobile, and it exists today. As for the Control, don't count on it. The design of the control is part of Play Station, how would they improve it without coming off too much like a 360 control? As for Kinect 2.... Cmon man, who cares?
The Control won't change (maybe L/R 2) and there'll be some Move bullshit too, because they feel they have to, but like Kinect it won't be supported by devs and languish.
Well, Polyphony did it for the first time almost 4 years ago, in 2008.
They used GT5: Prologue back then - same set-up: 4PS3 consoles rendering 4 separate pictures, totalling 4K resolution on one screen - so is not something really that new and groundbreaking for them.
http://www.gran-turismo.com/jp/news/d4074p2.html
However, the *4K GT on PS4* would be possible if the GT5 level of graphics will be utilised and game re-rendered in such resolution. However, it would probably be nothing but tech-demo of some sort, because I presume how next-gen GT game will move towards fidelity and real-time rendering effects close to those of GT5 various promotional videos, and not left on downscaled PS3 level as present in GT5.
shinra-bansho
Member
I like how an unsubstantiated rumor about Samsung ceasing production of GDDR5 has become definitive and absolute.
People are realistic that if a console maker cedes the marketplace for two years to the Wii U and a year to the PS4 (if Microsot) or XBOX3 (if Sony) then it will be ruinous.
I know about that I posted about it a few times over the years, but now it's on display for the public to come try out for the next month or so.
They could try it even the last time, it was also on public area of the Downshift Session event.
However, it is not the actual resolution that is interesting here - despite being crazy and astonishing - it is the framerate managed in 2008 for the second demostration. 2008 demo (second one, first was 4K, other was 1080p) was running at 1080p/240fps - there was a special FED display capable of such output - and it was the very most important part of such sensation.
With 240fps you practically blend all flickering imaginable and result is probably very unbelievable. Reports from 2008 were saying of complete change of perception due to insane framerate, I am so looking forward to hear what will this 2012 demo deliver.
Sidewinder
Member
Only way I see PS4 surviving against WiiU with 2 years head start and 1 year head start for the Xbox Infinity, is if they bundle it with a VR helmet @ 450$ max, everything else would be a tragedy.
The power thirsty core audience will buy the Xbox Infinity, because this generation lasted for soooo long, who would be willing to wait another year for a PS4 that will only be more powerful, but won't show its superiority against second gen Infinity games at launch??
But if they offer more or less the same power with cheaper parts and THE killer feature aka VR one year later, they could have the next Wii/Kinect on their hands and attract both the core and casual audience at the same time because of the novelty.
240fps wasn't for the 4K mode but that does bring up a thought, what if the PS4 has a option to let you choose between 4K 30FPS & 1080P 120FPS or even 4K 60FPS & 1080P 240FPS in some games?
BlockheadBrown
Member
Yeah, I edited my post above while I was going through old bookmarks, take a look.
Not only that but people forget that a company like Sony could manufacture whatever memory they need by themselves if they wanted to.
They have been using Rambus memory since the PS2 days and that kind of memory isn't exactly the definition of mainstream memory.
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