Support NeoGAF

[Rickenslacker]

Compared to what, Far Cry 1?

Now THAT was a mess of a game. Interesting concepts for its day, but terrible TERRIBLE design all around.

CryTek made enormous strides in developing Crysis, which is one of the finest FPS games I've ever played.

I found they fell into the same pitfall. Namely that the introduction of aliens/monsters is where all fun swerves off a cliff.

 

[Conor 419]

Shame it'll lack the features which made two great, it should still be enjoyable however.

 

[Beaulieu]

Shame it'll lack the features which made two great, it should still be enjoyable however.

reading the article in OP they got rid of

malaria
guns jaming
respawning ennemies at outposts
constant ennemies spawning everywhere
bad fuckin story
bland characters

man, what a shame they took the features that made farcry 2 great.

 

[Dennis]

Shame it'll lack the features which made two great, it should still be enjoyable however.

Jeeps of Doom?

Malaria fetch quests?

Hawkeye super-power AI enemies?

Groundhog day outposts?

Edit: rude gaffer posted my post before my post. Why I never.


Then suddenly out of nowhere......gif

 

[ironcreed]

Jeeps of Doom?

Malaria fetch quests?

Hawkeye super-power AI enemies?

Groundhog day outposts?

Edit: rude gaffer posted my post before my post. Why I never.

LOL, Groundhog Day outposts. I like that.

 

[Of All Trades]

Of course not, I know GAF has a seething hatred for FC2. I just felt like posting what I thought was a great article with an interesting point, regardless of the outcome. An interesting thing I've noticed is that game developers, or people who are otherwise interested in thinking about the mechanics of game design beyond what's happening on the screen in front of them, generally love FC2. It's the normal "gamers" who hate it. It doesn't apply to everyone obviously, but from listening to podcasts and reading forums that's the general impression I have. It's obviously a very interesting and unique game from a systems standpoint.

In my readings I've found that it's basically three camps: people who hate FC2, people who think FC2 is an ok game with serious flaws designed by a mediocre talent whose best game (SCCT) was a polished version of two previous games, and people who mindlessly worship Clint Hocking and write words like "execushite" while nodding frantically whenever someone gurgles out some variation of the word "ludic".

 

[ezekial45]

I'm glad they made these changes in FC3. These are all positives for me. I understand what FC2 was trying to do, but I just don't think they did it right at all. And let's be honest, FC2 was gamey as well. They took very artificial means to make the world feel more alive and challenging, which were all more jarring than effective.

 

[Messofanego]

What I got from this article was this:

Far Cry 3 is out – in some weird reversal of the usual practices – on November 29th in the EU, 30th in UK, and on December 4th in the US.

Now Americans can feel what EU Dishonored players are feeling right now.

 

[Kinyou]

The most memorable moment of Far Cry 2 for me was running out of morphine and being forced to put my good pal out of his misery with a bullet in the head. (It didn’t matter that he didn’t have a personality as such. So long as he rescued me from death, time and time again, he was my friend).

Yeah.... no

The buddy system was a gameplay mechanic. It was a checkpoint, an additional life. My "buddy" dying bothered me as much as running out of grenades.

 

[Sephiroth503]

What I got from this article was this:


Now Americans can feel what EU Dishonored players are feeling right now.

Indeed!

 

[diffusionx]

Now Americans can feel what EU Dishonored players are feeling right now.

I'll live.

 

[Hindle]

Ubisoft have never known how to make a FC game better then the original IMO. They always seem to balls parts up.

 

[Derrick01]

Now Americans can feel what EU Dishonored players are feeling right now.

Nah it won't be the same. I'm not going to be frothing over a homogenized FPS like I was for something like Dishonored.

 

[Conor 419]

reading the article in OP they got rid of

malaria
guns jaming
respawning ennemies at outposts
constant ennemies spawning everywhere
bad fuckin story
bland characters

man, what a shame they took the features that made farcry 2 great.

Guns Jamming = Good
Malaria = Good
Stripped Down HUD = Good
No fucking +50's popping up during kills = Good
Buddy System = Good
Africa = Good

Story wasn't that bad, characters were however. But anyway, still not the point. Far Cry 2 was really good, and they could have QUITE EASILY dealt with the AI issues without fucking with the other shit.

 

[dark10x]

Guns Jamming = Good
Malaria = Good
Stripped Down HUD = Good
No fucking +50's popping up during kills = Good
Buddy System = Good
Africa = Good

Story wasn't that bad, characters were however. But anyway, still not the point. Far Cry 2 was really good, and they could have QUITE EASILY dealt with the AI issues without fucking with the other shit.

Guns Jamming? Yes, that is a cool idea. Eliminating that won't ruin the game, however.

Malaria was a good idea but poorly executed.

Do we know what kind of HUD options are available in FC3?

Africa was a cool idea but the map created for FC2 was not. It was highly limited based on mountain corridors that you could not climb.

 

[LordAzrael]

Great. I hated so many design choices of Far Cry 2 that anything different would be an improvement.

 

[Conor 419]

Guns Jamming? Yes, that is a cool idea. Eliminating that won't ruin the game, however.

Malaria was a good idea but poorly executed.

Do we know what kind of HUD options are available in FC3?

Africa was a cool idea but the map created for FC2 was not. It was highly limited based on mountain corridors that you could not climb.

Missing the point, it was the subtle features that created the overall uniqueness that was Far Cry 2, removing those elements only hinders it. Africa was terrific, the atmosphere, art style and OST complemented each other spectacularly.

 

[Derrick01]

Guns Jamming? Yes, that is a cool idea. Eliminating that won't ruin the game, however.

Malaria was a good idea but poorly executed.

Do we know what kind of HUD options are available in FC3?

Africa was a cool idea but the map created for FC2 was not. It was highly limited based on mountain corridors that you could not climb.

It's sort of like the Mass Effect debate. Should we celebrate the total removal of cool unique ideas that weren't executed well or ask that they simply be done better?

 

[dark10x]

It's sort of like the Mass Effect debate. Should we celebrate the total removal of cool unique ideas that weren't executed well or ask that they simply be done better?

In this case, yes, we should celebrate. I don't think any of the features in Far Cry 2 were well designed.

Africa was terrific, the atmosphere, art style and OST complemented each other spectacularly.

The soundtrack? Really? Man, I thought it was bland to the point that I simply disabled it. Incidental background music at best.

I don't thin we're going to be able to agree on this one. I've tried to love FC2 but walk away hating every single time.

 

[Derrick01]

In this case, yes, we should celebrate. I don't think any of the features in Far Cry 2 were well designed.

That wasn't what I said though. We should ask that they be done better instead of removing them for more casual elements like a XP bar (which is getting tiresome. Every game has it now) and a minimap that's always displayed.

 

[dark10x]

That wasn't what I said though. We should ask that they be done better instead of removing them for more casual elements like a XP bar (which is getting tiresome. Every game has it now) and a minimap that's always displayed.

Right, and in most games, I would agree.

I do think the addition of an XP bar is stupid (is that really present throughout single player in FC3?).

 

[ironcreed]

Missing the point, it was the subtle features that created the overall uniqueness that was Far Cry 2, removing those elements only hinders it. Africa was terrific, the atmosphere, art style and OST complemented each other spectacularly.

How about being bombarded with respawning enemies? Did you enjoy that? Going through the same checkpoints that you have already cleared 100 times previously fucking sucked... period. The Malaria? I found it to be nothing but an annoyance that made me go out of my way to get medicine and soon became about as repetitive as respawning enemies. As for the atmosphere, yeah I loved it. I thought it was a fun game on the whole outside of said issues that ruined the immersion.

In Far Cry 3 there is more to do in the world, without being knocked out of that 'I want to explore' mood these games are made for. Instead of respawning enemies in jeeps flying over cliffs and landing on your head every few minutes, you are encouraged to go out and find upgrades, ingredients and take over bases that become yours. Places you can customize gear, craft items, fast travel and take on new side quests. The world is crafted to be enjoyed more, while giving you a sense of taking it over.

One other note on the Malaria being cut. Here you actually get to mix ingredients and take hallucinogens that not only provide some gorgeous visual effects and even induce a sense of insanity at times, but gives you benefits as well. Such as being able to hold your breath longer in the beautiful underwater environments, while looking for secrets and tangling with the occasional a shark or two. Much better than, "oh god, time to go through 5 respawned checkpoints or take a bus to go to the doctor before I can continue the game." The tension they wanted to create only added tedium for many of us. It really sapped the fun and sense of immersion out of an otherwise gorgeous world.

 

[diffusionx]

That wasn't what I said though. We should ask that they be done better instead of removing them for more casual elements like a XP bar (which is getting tiresome. Every game has it now) and a minimap that's always displayed.

How would you make, say, the buddy system better? FC2's system was pretty inscrutable. You did some missions with a guy and got to shoot him if he was injured. Making it clearer or basing it off sidekick stuff in other games would lead to the same jackholes talking about "execushites" and "making it casual."

Guns jamming/car repairs and malaria were just annoying. Likewise, I don't see how they made the game better and I don't necessarily see how to make a malaria system better. I'm fine with it being replaced with, say, a deep and well-designed crafting/hunting system. One is just an annoying mcguffin that slows you down, the other encourages you to explore an open world.

 

[Rickenslacker]

Guns jamming and malaria were just annoying. Likewise, I don't see how they made the game better and I don't necessarily see how to make a malaria system better. I'm fine with it being replaced with, say, a deep and well-designed crafting/hunting system. One is just an annoying mcguffin that slows you down, the other encourages you to explore an open world.

They were annoying, but they added flavour to engagements. I didn't really have a problem with how malaria was implemented, and I can't help but laugh when I start getting an attack and frantically go to pop a pill only to stop paying attention to where I'm driving and fall into a lake.

Though the gun jamming could definitely use a tweak, because it's inexcusable that enemies have perfect accuracy and functionality with their guns until the moment they drop off their corpse when they become a rusted piece of shit. It effectively makes looting guns worthless, and it forces your only source of weaponry to the weapons dealer.

 

[diffusionx]

They were annoying, but they added flavour to engagements. I didn't really have a problem with how malaria was implemented, and I can't help but laugh when I start getting an attack and frantically go to pop a pill only to stop paying attention to where I'm driving and fall into a lake.

The engagements in Far Cry 2 may have needed some contrived flavor because they were so damn common.

 

[Conor 419]

How about being bombarded with respawning enemies? Did you enjoy that? Going through the same checkpoints that you have already cleared 100 times previously fucking sucked... period. The Malaria? I found it to be nothing but an annoyance that made me go out of my way to get medicine and soon became about as repetitive as respawning enemies. As for the atmosphere, yeah I loved it. I thought it was a fun game on the whole outside of said issues that ruined the immersion.

In Far Cry 3 there is more to do in the world, without being knocked out of that 'I want to explore' mood these games are made for. Instead of respawning enemies in jeeps flying over cliffs and landing on your head every few minutes, you are encouraged to go out and find upgrades, ingredients and take over bases that become yours. Places you can customize gear, craft items, fast travel and take on new side quests. The world is crafted to be enjoyed more, while giving you a sense of taking it over.

One other note on the Malaria being cut. Here you actually get to mix ingredients and take hallucinogens that not only provide some gorgeous visual effects and even induce a sense of insanity at times, but gives you benefits as well. Such as being able to breathe longer in the beautiful underwater environments, while looking for secrets and tangling with the occasional a shark or two. Much better than, "oh god, time to go through 5 respawned checkpoints or take a bus to go to the doctor before I can continue the game." The tension they wanted to create only added tedium for many of us. It really sapped the fun and sense of immersion out of an otherwise gorgeous world.

For FUCK sake I already stated that you could fix the artificial intelligence issues without trashing the unique features which contributed to the games atmosphere.

 

[Rickenslacker]

The engagements in Far Cry 2 may have needed some contrived flavor because they were so damn common.

It would've been better had there been more cooldown before guard posts repopulated, but I enjoyed the added bit of randomization in encounters that forced me to think on the fly.

I will say that I can completely sympathize with anyone that played the console versions though, because without quicksave the game is pretty grueling.

 

[dark10x]

It would've been better had there been more cooldown before guard posts repopulated, but I enjoyed the added bit of randomization in encounters that forced me to think on the fly.

I will say that I can completely sympathize with anyone that played the console versions though, because without quicksave the game is pretty grueling.

The enemies were predictably placed (due to respawns) but, more importantly, their reactions were too simple. There was no sense of hunting or being hunted by the AI. If AI were present in the scene chances are every single one of them always knew exactly where you were at all times.

I could deal with respawning if the enemies had been interesting to engage but they would always appear in the same areas and use the same tactics. It was incredibly repetitive.

 

[Dipswitch]

Changes sound good to me. The 'survive off the land' mechanic sounds like it has the potential to get old very quickly though. All depends on their implementation I suppose.

 

[Goldenroad]

I despised Far Cry 2. Every part of it. From the survival aspects to the gunplay to the story to the driving to the boring environment. Nothing about that game appealed to me. Any change to that game is a change for the better imho. I'm still not going to be lining up to buy FC3, but at least I may consider a pick up when it's dirt cheap, which given that it's a Ubisoft game, should only take a couple months.

 

[DTKT]

I bet those skinning animations are going to get really annoying after the third time. Let me cancel them. :|

 

[dark10x]

I bet those skinning animations are going to get really annoying after the third time. Let me cancel them. :|

Yeah, it's like using that single bolt to fix everything in Far Cry 2.

 

[ironcreed]

For FUCK sake I already stated that you could fix the artificial intelligence issues without trashing the unique features which contributed to the games atmosphere.

I was simply explaining how things like this brought the game down and went further in pointing out that having to go out of your way to get more medicine because of Malaria became just as bad as the respawning enemies after awhile. Then I went on to explain how what they are replacing these annoying, immersion breaking elements with are indeed looking to make the game not only unique, but more fun to just be in the world on the whole. But hey, to each their own.

 

[NEOPARADIGM]

Far Cry 2 is one of the most divisive games of all-time. Holy shit. These threads are terrible to read.

 

[Rickenslacker]

The enemies were predictably placed (due to respawns) but, more importantly, their reactions were too simple. There was no sense of hunting or being hunted by the AI. If AI were present in the scene chances are every single one of them always knew exactly where you were at all times.

I dunno, I could get some interesting moments out of them. Like getting the machete out on someone tying his shoe, or killing a merc who's helping his injured buddy get out of the firefight, then sadistically placing a remote charge next to the helpless one as I run off to my objective. Or frantically trying to find cover because the molotov I threw propagated and set off a cache of ammo and explosives. Or those rare moments when I can get the jump on people, with my stealth suit equipped and prowl during the night, getting headshots with my silenced Makarov.

The AI itself is pretty basic, but I had my fun out of it.

 

[Messofanego]

Nah it won't be the same. I'm not going to be frothing over a homogenized FPS like I was for something like Dishonored.

Using animals tactically that can also backfire on you.

dat homogenised FPS

I mean, if all the talk about emergent gameplay/situations from previews is smoke and mirrors, I'm more than willing to eat crow.

 

[Snuggles]

On a positive note, I'm really glad to see they've added more animals. That was one area of missed potential in FC2, you were in Africa but all you saw was the occasional water buffalo and zebra. Where were the goddamn Lions and Crocs and stuff?

 

[iNvid02]

so its less like far cry 2, great news

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

The lack of a buddy system and unbalanced weapon jams seem like a good thing to me. I liked FC2 but I'm not so delusional to think that it was a well-designed experience from top to bottom.

 

[SJRB]

Wow this is coming next month? I thought for sure this was a 2013 title. Did it get moved up or something?

 

[Snuggles]

Wow this is coming next month? I thought for sure this was a 2013 title. Did it get moved up or something?

I believe it was actually pushed back a month or so. There's still a good chance of the PC version being a 2013 title though...but maybe Ubisoft won't Ubisoft it.

 

[T.M. MacReady]

Far Cry 2 is my favorite game of this gen. So polarizing for some reason.

There was a thread not too long ago where tons of people called it "Terribad" or "the worst game of this gen by far" and other insane hyperbole.

Its a game that rewards you for being creative with it and truly lets you play it your way. It's the most unique fps I've ever played. I really hope FC3 doesn't stray too far to pander to the people who think its "terribad" because they played it for an hour and gave up.

 

[Tankshell]

Game still sounds great.

The enemy checkpoints don't respawn guys! Remember that!

The amount of times I had to clear the same enemy encampments in FC2 pissed my off no end.

*blinkers on* game will be good, game will be good.

 

[Rufus]

I've been noticing this trend where games are initially loved, then hated, then at some point in the future, loved again. This process can even repeat itself.

It can also happen at the same time!
Next order of business for that investigation: keep track of how many individuals change their opinion.

The underwater environments look amazing. I'm gonna spend so much time just swimming around.

Piranhas and Sharks. Calling it.

I believe it was actually pushed back a month or so. There's still a good chance of the PC version being a 2013 title though...but maybe Ubisoft won't Ubisoft it.

Hahaha.

 

[Seanspeed]

The soundtrack? Really? Man, I thought it was bland to the point that I simply disabled it. Incidental background music at best.

The sounds of the environment are all the soundtrack you need. Turning the music off is the best way to play the game, I think. Much more immersive.

 

[RebornYeti]

Just show me the map editor, Ubi!

 

[newsguy]

Came in here thinking "damn it's not gonna be good " came out thinking "someone liked Far Cry 2's magical fucking jeepsquads?"

 

[dark10x]

The sounds of the environment are all the soundtrack you need. Turning the music off is the best way to play the game, I think. Much more immersive.

I do actually agree with you there. The sound in Far Cry 2 was really quite good without music.

Its a game that rewards you for being creative with it and truly lets you play it your way. It's the most unique fps I've ever played.

Really? THE most unique FPS you've played? Wow.

 

[Krabboss]

Far Cry 2 was hot garbage, so I don't know if I can get where the writer is coming from. Far Cry 3 doesn't sound all that exciting either though, to be fair.

 

[Bladenic]

LTTP, but did the OP really call Far Cry 2 one of his favorite FPSes? I mean, I respect opinions and everything, but that's one that just boggles my mind.