Exactly. That's why I sold all of my Criterion Collection blu-ray discs. The subtitles are all quite hard to read. There are enough films out there. Who needs Kurosawa, anyway?
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I returned a game because of the font size
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Exactly. That's why I sold all of my Criterion Collection blu-ray discs. The subtitles are all quite hard to read. There are enough films out there. Who needs Kurosawa, anyway?
DangerousDave
Member
That's not true, because the fonts are a screen element that is proportional to the screen. If you play a game at 720, and the font is 20 pixel high, at 1080 it will be around of 30 pixel high. They're basically poligons and textures, not sprites that have a fixed amount of pixels.
This is why some HD games have blurry fonts if you play it on a SD tv. Because the amount of pixels of the font are reduced, if they use the same font textures on HD than in SD.
Think that's bad? Try New Little King's Story.
That font is no more than 4 millimeters on the Vita's screen.
4 millimeters = .16in = (slightly under) 12-point text, like most hardcovers and bigger than most paperbacks.
Lord Ghirahim
Member
Think that's bad? Try New Little King's Story.
That font is no more than 4 millimeters on the Vita's screen.
The original is okay.
I disagree. Let game developers have creative freedom on their game. Some games just include optional text for cutscenes, where something like this wouldn't be too hard to implement. But some games use text usage is heavy and important to the game, and so I'd say just let them make the game how they want. Different games implement different techniques to display text/subtitles, and it's not always as convenient as flicking a switch to make the font size bigger.
Jawmuncher
Member
Looks fine to me.
But then again font issues that get brought up have never ever been an issue with me.
I remember the big deal over Dead Rising having small font on a SD screen.....
I beat the whole game on that sort of TV
But then again font issues that get brought up have never ever been an issue with me.
I remember the big deal over Dead Rising having small font on a SD screen.....
I beat the whole game on that sort of TV
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
I know some of you guys are being snarky with the sit closer you blind noob, but some of the font size choices I think are bad for alot of people.
I know we should all follow the optimum distance stuff for our tv size, but it's not always possible.
In my living room, my couch is 14 feet away from my 42in tv. Most times, I times I will pull my desk chair in front of the tv to game, so I can read stuff.
That said though, sitting 14 feet way, I have no problem reading the all the various tickers and smaller bottom screen texts that are on the news channels, and watching ESPN and watching sports broadcasts. I can make the scores out and all of that.
For games, I find myself having problems reading text box stuff from that far.
I do this sometimes because I am lazy and want to sit in my comfy couch. Some games I can get away with it, because I don't need to read text because I am familiar enough with the game.
I hope in the future maybe some devs will accommodate letting the user adjust the font size. Aren't some devs accommodating their MP HUD colors for the sake of those that are color blind? Could be something that happens.
That said, I would never return a game because of it of course.
I know we should all follow the optimum distance stuff for our tv size, but it's not always possible.
In my living room, my couch is 14 feet away from my 42in tv. Most times, I times I will pull my desk chair in front of the tv to game, so I can read stuff.
That said though, sitting 14 feet way, I have no problem reading the all the various tickers and smaller bottom screen texts that are on the news channels, and watching ESPN and watching sports broadcasts. I can make the scores out and all of that.
For games, I find myself having problems reading text box stuff from that far.
I do this sometimes because I am lazy and want to sit in my comfy couch. Some games I can get away with it, because I don't need to read text because I am familiar enough with the game.
I hope in the future maybe some devs will accommodate letting the user adjust the font size. Aren't some devs accommodating their MP HUD colors for the sake of those that are color blind? Could be something that happens.
That said, I would never return a game because of it of course.
blainethemono
Member
The text is fine. I sit about 8 feet away from a 42" tv. 12 feet away from a 32" tv is definitely way too far, that would make me rearrange my entire setup
Especially for subtitles vs. font size, you start to run into problems where accessibility re: text size clashes with accessibility re: display time clashes with standards for how much of the frame you can/should obscure. At 2x zoom, say, a lot of lines are at the minimum going to need splitting, probably need rewriting to match visual (a worthwhile expense, but likely to spark whole new questions of why the hearing-impaired titles are different than the dialog.)
You can also run into situations where it's just impossible to fit particularly wordy lines on screen in the allotted time while still holding each split long enough to be read.
This, of course, gets even more difficult when you get free control over font size.
Accessibility is a vital goal from a human perspective, but we've been hashing over subtitle-based accessibility to media for quite a long time, and even the highest-budget, most socially conscious implementations have some stark tradeoffs. Even if every engine was designed with it in mind, it's nowhere near as simple as a UI slider for anything with a cutscene component.
BlackGhost
Banned
This kind of reminds me of the problems with Dead Risings 1 text when it came out
XANDER CAGE
Member
I felt the same way with Skyrim. Seeing a non-wacky, sans-serif font in a fantasy game was a godsend.
Sapphire Dreams
Member
IMO, Capcom games are the worst offender.
NinjaTehFish
Banned
Hmm....guess i should stop using my 40" led on the computer desk.....or....you know.....not
MrCookiepants
Member
Some of you need to buy a cushion or something and sit your asses at an appropriate viewing distance.
Okay, I will get my eyes checked, but it's quite seperate to the matter.
The insistence that people should sit closer with each TV resolution seems unrealistic. I'm certain that plenty of family rooms have a modest TV with plenty of space before the furniture.
Personally, I see resolution as increased 'definition' -everything is sharper. Much like with 'retina' Apple devices, you don't just shrink all the interfaces now that the resolution is high.
I'm a game developer myself, and we did a lot of interface testing on a 14" CRT to ensure readability. Some of the responses in this thread from players have made me appreciate that scalable interface sizes need more consideration moving forward.
Text size options needn't be a huge detriment to the graphic design part.
The insistence that people should sit closer with each TV resolution seems unrealistic. I'm certain that plenty of family rooms have a modest TV with plenty of space before the furniture.
Personally, I see resolution as increased 'definition' -everything is sharper. Much like with 'retina' Apple devices, you don't just shrink all the interfaces now that the resolution is high.
I'm a game developer myself, and we did a lot of interface testing on a 14" CRT to ensure readability. Some of the responses in this thread from players have made me appreciate that scalable interface sizes need more consideration moving forward.
Text size options needn't be a huge detriment to the graphic design part.
samus4ever
Banned
I have to say the font sizes are starting to bother me too. I got a 37 inch tv and could hardly read the Sleeping Dogs subtitles. Assassins Creed 3 has the same problem.
IrishNinja
Member
i returned a ps2 launch copy of summoner because the font was tiny and matched the background when i started, as i understand it this was a good move regardless of my reasons
The distance is completely fine for other games, so I'd prefer to play a game that's comfortable to look at, from my comfortable couch, with the comfort of friends and family sitting with me.
opticalmace
Member
SRTtoZ
Member
Hold a book 5 feet away and see how legible it is. That is your situation and your own fault. Yes some devs dont do themselves any favors with font choices but I played this game without any issue and I have awful eyes. Sitting 12 feet away from a 32 inch TV is simply too far.
Aren't you able to change text size via the ini file? Unless it's hard-coded in.
blainethemono
Member
This goes beyond just the size of the fonts in a specific game though. Sitting too far away is going to make it impossible for you to see the fullest possible level of detail in your games or movies or television shows or whatever other media. It does depend somewhat on how good your vision is, but you are sitting far outside that recommended range for a 32" TV
I already stated that I'm unable to move the furniture in that room, so I'd rather not.
I've had no problem spending hundreds of hours with other games, and I'm playing fewer console games recently because of very long work & travel times. You mustn't overestimate how important playing Dishonoured (etc) is to other people.
Comments like this doesn't make this thread better. Just checked my eyes last friday because I want new glasses, eyesight hasn't worsened a bit. I still think tiny fonts are a bad trend.
Tiny fonts are also against the "comfy couch" argument. If you can't have the freedom to sit further than the minimal viewing distance, then it also mean we have less freedom to set up our living room than 10-15 years ago, when people used to watch tiny TVs from a distance somewhere between 8-15 feet.
I don't know why we shouldn't get bigger font size when most of the time it's totally feasible. And wasn't one of the argument for HD the improved IQ? So we have better IQ now but we have to sit much nearer to the screen than we used to watch SD material?
The good thing about tiny fonts is, that it can be used as an argument against UHD gaming though. Some say: "You don't need a 80" TV for UHD, you can still gain a better IQ with smaller TVs", but I'm not sure it's in my interest to play UHD games one feet away because the font is a few pixels tall.
OptimoPeach
Banned
OP example looks fine, really
Yes but it appears to be in some strange alien language here
The original is okay.
Yes but it appears to be in some strange alien language here
blainethemono
Member
It's something you do need to be aware of if you want to appreciate your nice HD set. I don't think anybody really cared enough about viewing distances on SDTV sets 10-15 years ago but I don't know enough to be sure. I think the average recommended distance for an SDTV set is 3-6 times the width of the screen. For HDTVs its more like 1.5 to 3 times the diagonal length of the screen.
Either way, back then it wasn't really a big deal to most people. Nowadays we have the capability of having home theater systems that attempt to replicate a theater experience and it's a bigger deal than it was back then.
I wouldn't sit any further back than about 8 feet from my 42" because there is a perceptible loss of detail. I also wear glasses to correct my vision, without them my eyesight is terrible. I think games should definitely have the ability to scale fonts as well as UI elements, but I have had no problems with the fonts in Dishonored.
As others have stated, 32 inches and 12 feet, That is just not ideal, and not even just for text reading. In an FPS anything you are shooting at in the distance is going to be difficult to see. I am about 5 feet from a 40 inch television and I feel like I need another 10 inches to get the best experience possible out of my games.
That being said, text size in general should be something that you can increase, I am sure it would take a bit more work on the development side, but yeah that would be nice, It is a legitmate complaint. Still just about every aspect of most games is going to be lessened by viewing that size screen from that distance. Unless you are playing 16 bit era or earlier games, that is a generally inadequate viewing distance.
That being said, text size in general should be something that you can increase, I am sure it would take a bit more work on the development side, but yeah that would be nice, It is a legitmate complaint. Still just about every aspect of most games is going to be lessened by viewing that size screen from that distance. Unless you are playing 16 bit era or earlier games, that is a generally inadequate viewing distance.
toddhunter
Member
GTA4 made me buy a large HDTV because of the damn phone....which helped me see clearly that it sucked.
Dishonored is an extremely non-textual game. There is very, very, very little menu interaction in the game, which is great. Turn off subs, unless I missed a reason why you need them turned on.
Not dismissing your complaint, but I guess Dishonored is an odd one to single out. Nice font, light on text and menus, heavy on environmental story cues, etc.
Not dismissing your complaint, but I guess Dishonored is an odd one to single out. Nice font, light on text and menus, heavy on environmental story cues, etc.
I agree. If the OP had chosen an other game than Dishonored to make his complaint, the backlash wouldn't be as harsh.
The best thing about Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate? I can actually read the font now! MH3 was terrible when you didn't have component.
dragonlife
Member
If the OP says they play plenty of other games just fine under the same circumstances, it's obviously just a strongly opinionated dislike for one detail the game fails at in their eyes. It really doesn't need to be said, but people care about different things. It's just easy to ridicule the OP because of the dramatic (original) title and because they opened themselves to it by making a thread about it. Everyone just interprets it as "Come mock me for my terrible opinion!"
I'm sure if I played Dishonored and enjoyed it, I'd probably want the OP to give it a chance and not give up on it for such a "silly" reason, too. It's a shame when any great game (I assume Dishonored is great) gets ignored because of something that wouldn't normally be considered to be a crucial part of the game by most.
That said, everyone needs to remember that text really does matter for some. It's crazy, I know, but there are people out there with poor eyesight or varying levels of deafness. Or they're just really into fonts. And, yes, distance can play a role, but like I said in the very first sentence, the OP assures us it's not his set-up or himself, but the game.
I would just say to not be so hasty, OP. Two minutes is way too soon to write off a game. You never know--you could end up liking the game itself enough to slightly forgive its text.
And since we're all sharing, my bad experiences with text in games have been MadWorld and Dead Rising on an SDTV. Way too small Most recently, I'm not a fan of Corpse Party's font, which is kind of a boner killer for a visual novel, but it's not that big of a deal. The original Etrian Odyssey's was pretty bad, too.
I'm sure if I played Dishonored and enjoyed it, I'd probably want the OP to give it a chance and not give up on it for such a "silly" reason, too. It's a shame when any great game (I assume Dishonored is great) gets ignored because of something that wouldn't normally be considered to be a crucial part of the game by most.
That said, everyone needs to remember that text really does matter for some. It's crazy, I know, but there are people out there with poor eyesight or varying levels of deafness. Or they're just really into fonts. And, yes, distance can play a role, but like I said in the very first sentence, the OP assures us it's not his set-up or himself, but the game.
I would just say to not be so hasty, OP. Two minutes is way too soon to write off a game. You never know--you could end up liking the game itself enough to slightly forgive its text.
And since we're all sharing, my bad experiences with text in games have been MadWorld and Dead Rising on an SDTV. Way too small
Most recently, I'm not a fan of Corpse Party's font, which is kind of a boner killer for a visual novel, but it's not that big of a deal. The original Etrian Odyssey's was pretty bad, too.These are the two sections of text that the game commanded me to read. Also, how do I respond to questions, as shown in the second screen?
I'll be returning it today. There are other games for now, I'll return to this when I have a bigger TV.
Loading screen tips are stupid and useless; ignore them and enjoy experimentation. Not to mention, at least on the PC version, loading screens take about 2 seconds so I never had time to read them.
Dialogue decisions in the game don't matter too much, your actual actions determine the outcome. I do understand wanting to see them, but there are few dialogue branches in the game.
It's totally cool though, do what you must. Not going to harass you about it.
Trent Strong
Banned
I have the same problem with a lot of games. I don't know why they can't make the font and UI sizes adjustable.
Canis lupus
Member
Played RDR on an SDTV, text was unreadable.
People also used to pull out a cushion or pull up a chair for material with fine visual detail. There's a reason why as a kid you sat on the floor in front of the Nintendo, even though you could easily get eight or ten feet of slack between the RF adapter cables and the controller cables.
Gokurakumaru
Banned
The "recommended distance" defense is getting old. That distance is based on when your eyes stop discerning individual pixels and the image looks cohesive. You don't want to spot pixels when watching a movie, and you don't need to spot pixels to play a game. If anything recommended distance is the minimum you want to sit at, not the maximum. I sit at the recommended distance from my 46" and my friends think I'm nuts for it, but I'm also in a tiny apartment so there's a good reason for doing so.
But if I was in a house I would definitely be organised differently. If I was a heavy Kinect user it would be different. Would any of the people going on about getting a bigger TV or sitting closer be any less able to play a game with a larger font? No. So why are any of you railing against people having the option to arrange their house the way it should be, i.e. aesthetics and optimal use of space, not beholden to the size of the TV?
But if I was in a house I would definitely be organised differently. If I was a heavy Kinect user it would be different. Would any of the people going on about getting a bigger TV or sitting closer be any less able to play a game with a larger font? No. So why are any of you railing against people having the option to arrange their house the way it should be, i.e. aesthetics and optimal use of space, not beholden to the size of the TV?