1000? My $300 or so one is doing fine.
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Wii U - No optical audio connector? Nintendo. Fix this!!
- Thread starter Fredrik
- Start date
1000? My $300 or so one is doing fine.
Yeah, it seems that's the only way. Your receiver needs to have 5.1 analog in of course, but that's granted, if you got an expensive receiver. If you got an ultra-cheap one, those won't have those inputs and then you are probably really better off buying a new receiver.
The cheapest HDMI->analog decoder I could find is 150$, which is insane and you even get a power supply for US instead of Europe. Which means you need to get another power supply as well. That one also supports other codecs, so maybe someone will create one for example the purpose LPCM 5.1 over HDMI -> analog out and nothing else. Should be much cheaper.
You know, I don't want to downgrade my receiver. Just supporting HDMI in doesn't mean it's better.
And even then - 300$ - would mean Wii U costs over 600$ in total. The whole mess wouldn't have been needed, if Nintendo AT LEAST offered DPLII on analog or sold a dongle for Dolby Digital support or whatever. Plenty of options available.
Backfoggen
Banned
Some people have high-end audio equipment that they don't want to replace for one console not having outputs all other devices have.
Oh god, please be true.
if you're playing on a full range monitor then sure you'll get greys (gamma correction would be nice in games). But its not fair to say thats because of limited range, its because your device isn't calibrated to limited range.
Calibrate it so that 16 is black and you'll get blacks.
Do you watch blurays with grey blacks? because they use limited range too
No I don't. No way i'm shelling out another €200 for a receiver and probably have to buy new speakers/subwoofer, which costs only more money.....
Always-honest
Banned
Hmn.. I'm not so sure about that. Even my eizo screen only covers 98%.
On the ps3 the full rgb option makes a lot of people THINK it improves the colours and black values, while in reality it crushes blacks (the dark areas get too dark so that detail gets lost) like a madman on screens that don't support it.
You are confusing colour space with input signal range. Every monitor supports Full Range input, many TVs do as well.
On a device that expects Full Range input, a Limited Range signal is going to look bad: Which means that you won't get rich blacks.
NinjaBoiX
Member
How much does on optical out cost, wholesale. 10p? Hell, 50p?
Come on guys, loosen the purse strings a little. You are going to deny an entire portion of your customer base surround sound to save yourselves a few pence per unit?
Yeah, yeah, a few pence all adds up when you are talking millions of units, whatever, it's still a bad decision, simple as that. It's putting a tiny percentage increase in profits above customer satisfaction. And just plain common sense!
I think I'll wait for a revision, this console seems wholly half arsed. I am disappoint.
Come on guys, loosen the purse strings a little. You are going to deny an entire portion of your customer base surround sound to save yourselves a few pence per unit?
Yeah, yeah, a few pence all adds up when you are talking millions of units, whatever, it's still a bad decision, simple as that. It's putting a tiny percentage increase in profits above customer satisfaction. And just plain common sense!
I think I'll wait for a revision, this console seems wholly half arsed. I am disappoint.
majortom1981
Member
If they are still targeting the non gamers , then how many non gamers will even connect the wii u to surround sound? Its only a section of Nintendo fans that need the optical connector. Keep in mind that if your a true audio/video person you would have gotten a new receiver due to the updgraded sound from Blu-ray disks.
I think Nintendo has already been mainly targeting core gamers again for a while now.
What makes a "true audio/video person", and how much money do I have to spend on my home theater equipment to become one of these chosen people?
Or maybe that true audio/video person owns a BluRay player with analog 5.1 out (so the BluRay player will do the decoding) and will get the audio that way. smh
btw. bought a new bluray player just a few months ago. What does it have? Coaxial out. Why? Because it has to offer at least optical or coaxial out. Which is a good thing for consumers.
I mean using those arguments, you could also argue against having analog AV out on Wii U. And component out as well. Why did they include this? Why not go HDMI only? Everyone has displays capable of HDMI now, right? Everyone owns Full-HD displays, right? I could connect the Wii U to my 15 year old Sony Trinitron, but not my few years old receiver. Great job, great fucking job Nintendo.
This sounds like Sony removing rumble from PS3 controllers. I mean it seems Wii games will not have surround sound, if you use the exact same connections as you did with Wii, although their packaging states Dolby Pro Logic II. Way to go. Way to go.
You see - I'm not hating on it, because I want to hate on Nintendo. I WANTED to get a Wii U on release so badly. But I don't want to downgrade and I also don't want to spend lots and lots of money, because Nintendo couldn't afford to license at least DPLII. The consumer would have paid it anyway.
Can you use RCA cables and HDMI ones at the same time?
NinjaBoiX
Member
I'm a true audio geek, but I didn't have the money to spend on upgrading my kit, optical is just fine.
Antiquated stereo/dolby surround? Not so much.
Someone said it's possible in Wii mode. I'll check it out later.
Yeah in Wii mode, it could my salvation.
Thanks =)
No TVs 'expect' full range. They might be able to switch to it, but default will be limited range
the optical port doesn't cost much, but you'd also need processor overhead internally to convert 5.1 multichannel audio into a compressed 5.1 stream. Probably not that small a cost overall.
They should definitely decouple the HDMI and AV multi out though - I'm fine with not allowing video, but they should support stereo audio through that when HDMI is plugged in. That should be doable with a firmware update - PS3 was the same at the start, and then they added it later on.
What would be a good game to test out PLII?
GoldenEye
I have yet to crack that open. Now I have a good reason to!
Wait. When I connect the Wii U using a HDMI cable, which is the only option I have (monitor here) I can't use the AV cable for even stereo sound? If I understand you correctly, this seems to be the case? Well, not getting a Wii U anymore then. Was really excited for MH3HD and Bayonetta 2.
Palette Swap
Member
Your last statement has already been answered 5 times on this page and equivalent statements have received 100 answers over the course of the thread but you're applying VG consumerist logic to AV. There are a lot of enthusiasts who choose to keep older receivers, because they don't usually see the point of a newer one given every piece of hardware out there supports them.
Typically, someone with a 7 year old $1000 amp might not want to fork another grand for wiring ease and support of newer lossless surround codecs.
Oppo
Member
You sure? I distinctly remember hooking up my launch PS3 as video>HDMI and audio>Optical, for all the reasons listed in this thread. And it worked.
Couple things:
-Yes Wii Mode does output audio via RCA if in HDMI mode so this is something that should be patchable for Wii U proper.
-Wii Mode has no settings of its own (wrench menu).
-I did an unscientific test and it did not seem like I was getting DPL with NPC Pikmin 2 (first game I found with the logo). My receiver does not detect as much but it sounded stereo to me.
-Wii U games from Nintendo have no DPL logo on them. Nintendoland sounded stereo via RCA.
-Wii U will not let you select surround audio mode when choosing non-HDMI output.
-Yes Wii Mode does output audio via RCA if in HDMI mode so this is something that should be patchable for Wii U proper.
-Wii Mode has no settings of its own (wrench menu).
-I did an unscientific test and it did not seem like I was getting DPL with NPC Pikmin 2 (first game I found with the logo). My receiver does not detect as much but it sounded stereo to me.
-Wii U games from Nintendo have no DPL logo on them. Nintendoland sounded stereo via RCA.
-Wii U will not let you select surround audio mode when choosing non-HDMI output.
Theonik
Member
PS3 let you decouple your video and audio from the start. What they added later on was the ability to stream audio out of more than 1 output simultaneously. ie HDMI Audio + AV out.
Nintendo can probably fix this though. It's a question of if they want to and what sort of priority the issue has for them however.
Edit:
There was no surround mode setting on the Wii menu either so the WiiU will not have such a thing for Wii games. DPL is enabled from the game's settings. Also DPL, not being a digital audio format will typically not auto-detect on receivers so you need to manually set your receiver to get DPL sound in most cases. It will sound stereo otherwise. That said I don't know how you would determine if it worked properly.
I'm pretty sure Wii settings menu had Mono/Stereo/Surround. Will check at home to be 100% sure.
For Wii the best thing to do this was using Star Wars Rogue Leader/Rebel Strike.
For Wii U one could use RE4 for example.
bisonyes.jpg
Yeah, I didn't want to hook up my Wii to look at the menu but that's what I thought. Pikmin 2 didn't seem to have any specific option so I assumed that's how it outputs. I set my receiver to Pro Logic mode but it didn't seem to matter. That said Pikmin 2 could also be stereo only and just carry the logo, but that seems wrong to me. Basically I'd say that if you are using analog audio on Wii U just expect it to be stereo and maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised.
By the way, I'm going to write Nintendo an email about the analog out for HDMI connections, I'd urge other to do so as well. Let's make it happen.
UltimateIke
Member
A lot of Wii games with ProLogic II don't have in-game settings for it. Especially the Nintendo developed ones. They use the setting from the Wii menu, which the Wii U doesn't have.
Nothing I do with HDMI or component is giving me ProLogic sound. I tested Mario Kart Wii on my Wii and Wii U, and I can distinctly hear the difference. You can't hear the racers behind you on the Wii U.
Nothing I do with HDMI or component is giving me ProLogic sound. I tested Mario Kart Wii on my Wii and Wii U, and I can distinctly hear the difference. You can't hear the racers behind you on the Wii U.
The problem is that in Wii mode the sound setting is stereo by default right? It could be fixed via update?
Thanks for the confirmation. That would make sense for my test, if Pikmin 2 was getting the default from a Wii setting those can't be changed on Wii U.
Looks like Pro Logic II surround modes are gone for good. It may be time to upgrade from my Z5500s.
I'm guessing it's a licensing thing so it was deliberate.
UltimateIke
Member
The problem with the Wii mode is that it is using the same setting as the Wii U. The Wii mode is outputting 5.1 LPCM audio, but no Wii games carry more than two channels of discrete audio.
I think they could fix it, but we'll see.
Theonik
Member
I don't have my Wii on hand either so I can't check. If memory serves me well there were only display settings on the Wii menu itself.
I mean yes you could try a game and see if it sounds surround or not but that's not really a definitive test and with DPLII processing stereo sources too listening for sound coming out of multiple speakers is no good. It probably should be a game you have heard on a working DPLII setup to be a decent test.
Edit: Well that's that, maybe I really don't remember! That does sound like absolute shit as it seems that now, Wii games shouldn't be able to be played in surround sound regardless of HDMI or AV out.
Mmmhhh, could be at least it be emulated via receiver, through HDMI?
UltimateIke
Member
I'm not sure I exactly understand what you mean.
My receiver has no option for ProLogic II when getting a multichannel 5.1 signal. If I put the Wii U into stereo mode, the receiver can create a surround mix just like it can with any stereo source, but without the ProLogic mix coming from the source, the receiver isn't getting the cues for what audio should be going to the surround speakers.
What the hell the WiiU itself dosent even do this?
Should be patchable, but still. I used that setup with ps3 a few times. HDMI into 24 1080p monitor (with shit built in speakers) and RCA (red & white) into Logitech X4 2.1 system.
Oh well, that sucks, no way in hell that Nintendo would add DPLII support.
So the best sound output that we will ever get in Wii mode is stereo right?
CadetMahoney
Member
HA
Wait Wii only has wifi? But wifi lags as hell, and is bad for your health
what what
UltimateIke
Member
Stereo.
If you have the Wii U set to surround, the TV is down-mixing the 5.1 signal to 2.0 (or possibly just ignoring those extra channels altogether).
ChuyMasta
Member
I didn't try but I wouldn't be surprised if the Wii Mode was completely outputting a 480p Wii signal on the analog out (because it essentially running in that hardware mode) and the Wii U part is mirroring that over HDMI, which is different than taking a Wii U HDMI audio signal and outputting it over analog at the same time. So that's probably why it work that way and Wii U doesn't. That said I see no reason why that can't be fixed.
majortom1981
Member
I do not understand this board sometimes. Everybody blasts Nintendo for not being sony/Microsoft but when they blast Nintendo for doing something sony or Microsoft would do they get blasted anyway.
Nobody remembers how the only high quality audio that came from the ps3 required your receiver to support something specific that not all did?
Also Could this be a limitation of having to stream audio to 2 screens at once? I would think having to stream optical out to a receiver, hdmi to a tv, and audio to the controller all at once would require a lot of power.
Maybe that's why they didn't include it?
Nobody remembers how the only high quality audio that came from the ps3 required your receiver to support something specific that not all did?
Also Could this be a limitation of having to stream audio to 2 screens at once? I would think having to stream optical out to a receiver, hdmi to a tv, and audio to the controller all at once would require a lot of power.
Maybe that's why they didn't include it?
Saint Gregory
Member
Funny, in preperation for the WiiU in my den I just upgraded the logitech z-5450 system I've had since forever with this Samsung HTIB .
It has two HDMI inputs and one output and supports every surround standard known to man although I didn't think to test it with DPLII. Audiophiles will definitely turn up their noses at it but I've been really impressed so far with the sound quality and after using my PS3 as a Bluray player for the last six years I have to say the the quality of the playback on this player is also shockingly good.
I haven't gotten my WiiU yet but when I do I'll give better impressions of how well this system works with it. It looks like the price has gone up significantly as well but Amazon loves to do that before their BF deals so it looks like a deeper discount.
UltimateIke
Member
This is as close to how things are as I can tell. The only thing I have left to test is to see if setting the Wii U to Stereo and playing a game with an IN-GAME OPTION for surround will allow for ProLogic II output. I am certain that all games using the original Wii's main menu surround setting DO NOT output ProLogic II.
Wii U Audio Settings
Wii U Mode
HDMI - 1.0 channel (Mono), 2.0 channel (Stereo), or 5.1* channel (Surround) LPCM
*Compressed digital formats (Dolby Digital, DTS, etc.) are not supported.
Analog - 1.0 channel (Mono) or 2.0* channel (Stereo)
*No option for a surround mix (ProLogic II, etc.).
AUDIO AND VIDEO MUST COME FROM THE SAME SOURCE. You can not use HDMI video combined with Analog audio.
Wii Mode (Uses the same setting chosen from the Wii U menu)
HDMI - 1.0 channel (Mono), 2.0 channel (Stereo), or 5.1* channel (Surround) LPCM
*All Wii games are encoded with two channels of audio. The 5.1 option will still only send audio to two channels, and will ignore surround audio cues from games with ProLogic II.
Analog - 1.0 channel (Mono) or 2.0* channel (Stereo)
*The original Wii had an option in the main menu for Surround. This allowed for playback of ProLogic II encoded audio from games. The Wii U no longer allows this option to be selected from the Wii mode's main menu.
Analog audio and HDMI video can be used simultaneously.
Wii U Audio Settings
Wii U Mode
HDMI - 1.0 channel (Mono), 2.0 channel (Stereo), or 5.1* channel (Surround) LPCM
*Compressed digital formats (Dolby Digital, DTS, etc.) are not supported.
Analog - 1.0 channel (Mono) or 2.0* channel (Stereo)
*No option for a surround mix (ProLogic II, etc.).
AUDIO AND VIDEO MUST COME FROM THE SAME SOURCE. You can not use HDMI video combined with Analog audio.
Wii Mode (Uses the same setting chosen from the Wii U menu)
HDMI - 1.0 channel (Mono), 2.0 channel (Stereo), or 5.1* channel (Surround) LPCM
*All Wii games are encoded with two channels of audio. The 5.1 option will still only send audio to two channels, and will ignore surround audio cues from games with ProLogic II.
Analog - 1.0 channel (Mono) or 2.0* channel (Stereo)
*The original Wii had an option in the main menu for Surround. This allowed for playback of ProLogic II encoded audio from games. The Wii U no longer allows this option to be selected from the Wii mode's main menu.
Analog audio and HDMI video can be used simultaneously.
I haven't tested this, just read it up above.
ChuyMasta
Member
NOPE! No can do. Hooking up HDMI directly into my receiver messes up image quality pretty bad. (At least for me)
Either my receiver is pretty bad or I need to change image settings somehow. I'll keep meddling with it but I am willing to sacrifice sound for better picture.