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Why does Gametrailers think that people's problem with ME 3 is only the ending??

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
Despite what you think of Shane, he raises the point that it was the best reviewed game of the year if you go by Metacritic. He also holds the opinion if people think it was soooooo good in February why isn't it soooooo good any more?

So clearly reviewers which are responsible for that think the issues you're seeing are not as relevant.

Or my interpretation is that game reviewers fell for the hype yet again and inflate the fuck out of games that have high budgets only to realize that months later that they might have been a bit to quick to give out those 10s. ;-)
 

Shepard

Member
Not even counting the ending, Mass Effect 3 winds up being completely worse than Mass Effect 2 in almost every single way.

ME3 was dumbed down in terms of story, content, character development, combat, etc.

nope, just nope. Battles in ME2 are better? Really? Cahracter Development felt like a natural progression for me, so I don't think one is better than the other. Story, even though I don't agree with you, I can understand. Well, you really are overlooking all of the qualitites of ME3.
And what do you mean by "content"? Finished both in around 20-30hrs, and ME3 has Multiplayer on top of that.
 
There are plenty of issues with Mass Effect 3. The neutral option is completely removed from conversations, the dialogue in general feels stilted and not as compelling as the first two games, the game simultaneously feels like there is no urgency, yet feels like it has no time for characters. The attempts to generate emotion are incredibly inconsistent. The child, Shepard's dream sequences, basically any time Shepard talks to romantic interest or Liara and that piano music plays completely fall flat compared to scenes like Mordin's song or even Shepard just having a conversation with Garrus.

Outside of the questionable writing, the graphics are a noticeable step down from Mass Effect 2, class powers are ridiculously strong, but most guns, especially assault rifles, have been significantly nerfed from Mass Effect 2, so there's no reason to ever carry more than 2 of them. Nothing you do matters, it's all just sidequests for the hell of it and useless "war assets." Blowing up the monastery doesn't stop the game from spamming Banshees at you throughout the last mission, and I don't even need to talk about the rachni. The difficulty simultaneously feels incredibly easy then suddenly incredibly punishing because standard enemies are easily torn apart by powers, and then the game throws bruisers at you (Atlas, Brutes, Banshees) with completely insane amounts of health and one-hit kills.

Mass Effect 3 didn't suddenly become flawed game at the ending, the lack of polish throughout is apparent.
 
I'm not sure how ME2 can be considered much better than ME3 on any gameplay or narrative level. It was literally Episodic Corridor Shooter: The Game.

I enjoyed both for what they were, but they squandered the potential for the franchise. ME1 was a good start, filled with interesting world-building and a sense of immersion (due to its exploration mechanic) that was completely stripped from its sequels.

Yup. No matter how the ending of ME3 turned out, the series already went away from what I loved about ME1 so much that it was destined to be disappointing to me. The games just lost that wonder and scope ME1 had.
 

Hero

Member
nope, just nope. Battles in ME2 are better? Really? Cahracter Development felt like a natural progression for me, so I don't think one is better than the other. Story, even though I don't agree with you, I can understand. Well, you really are overlooking all of the qualitites of ME3.
And what do you mean by "content"? Finished both in around 20-30hrs, and ME3 has Multiplayer on top of that.

ME3 was the definition of a "PRESS THE A BUTTON TO DO WHAT YOU NEED TO DO". Literally every mission had some part where there was a turret sequence and a part where one of your squad members had to hack something or fix something and you and the other squad member had to kill wave after wave of enemies.
 

Tookay

Member
Despite what you think of Shane, he raises the point that it was the best reviewed game of the year if you go by Metacritic. He also holds the opinion if people think it was soooooo good in February why isn't it soooooo good any more?

Reviewers weren't discerning in their ability to sense a shit ending and how it betrayed most of the core concepts of the franchise. They saw an "epic" conclusion and were satisfied.

A disconnect happened between them and gamers, who were more invested in the series' coherence than they ever were.

Yup. No matter how the ending of ME3 turned out, the series already went away from what I loved about ME1 so much that it was destined to be disappointing to me. The games just lost that wonder and scope ME1 had.

Yeah, as far as I'm concerned, the damage was already done with ME2. While ME2 got its fair share of backlash, I don't think some people properly understood what had happened to the franchise until it was too late. I played it wondering what the hell had happened with the repetitiveness of the mission/level design and why the rest of GAF was seemingly okay with it, giving it the GOTY if I recall correctly.

ME was never a top-tier franchise. It felt like it was. It could have been. But Bioware excised a good portion of the ideas that made it unique and memorable. It's been coasting off the goodwill of the first game ever since.
 

Shepard

Member
ME3 was the definition of a "PRESS THE A BUTTON TO DO WHAT YOU NEED TO DO". Literally every mission had some part where there was a turret sequence and a part where one of your squad members had to hack something or fix something and you and the other squad member had to kill wave after wave of enemies.

Well, you have to press the A button to interact with the world, so "press the A button to do what you need to do" feels like something most of the games have to do. There are only 3 obligatory turret sequences I can think of, and even they were well integrated in the story. You should play the game again, maybe it'll surprise you.
 

-tetsuo-

Unlimited Capacity
The ending didn't really bother me that much. Clear dat LZ oh shit its a mech suit every mission was much worse. Also, I dropped my keys on Bedquestdesign Prime Shepard, pick them up for me before you clear that LZ.
 

Moaradin

Member
ME3 was the definition of a "PRESS THE A BUTTON TO DO WHAT YOU NEED TO DO". Literally every mission had some part where there was a turret sequence and a part where one of your squad members had to hack something or fix something and you and the other squad member had to kill wave after wave of enemies.

That is just plain not true. I can count the total turret sequences with one hand, and not only that, they were like 20 seconds long. If anything it added more variety to the combat that ME1 and ME2 lacked.

And segments where your squad members needed to hack or fix something happened like 2 times. Palaven's moon and one of the Rannoch missions.
 
The turret sequences were still crap. Turret sequences always will be and I don't even know why they're in here.

There's a turret sequence in Jacob's mission, and one on Earth. I think one of the developers even commented on how they weren't sure what to do between talking to all your squadmates, so they dropped another turret sequence in.
 
The turret sequences were still crap. Turret sequences always will be and I don't even know why they're in here.

There's a turret sequence in Jacob's mission, and one on Earth. I think one of the developers even commented on how they weren't sure what to do between talking to all your squadmates, so they dropped another turret sequence in.

They felt so jarring and forced...but...it all felt jarring and forced I suppose.
 

IrishNinja

Member
Because many people (me first) enjoyed the fuck out of the game, even if it was dumbed down, dudebro, or anything. The only really deception to me, is the ending. Yes the entire sage has flaws, but it's still awesome. The ending is nothing like that. It wasn't just bad, it ruined everything

^this. i understand it had some design issues with the changes it made as the series went on, but it wasn't the mess that RE6 was. again, many of my prior decisions did seem to carry weight, and certain areas were amongst my favorite in the series.

i enjoyed most of the game - looking back, i don't hate it at all like some others do, i just don't think it ended up being very memorable for me.
 

subversus

I've done nothing with my life except eat and fap
If people find the ending to be the biggest problem about Mass Effect 3 then they deserve shit Bioware and other companies feed to them. If people like shit then they probably should eat it. That is why Ass Effect will probably remain popular for some time.
 
Yeah, as far as I'm concerned, the damage was already done with ME2. While ME2 got its fair share of backlash, I don't think some people properly understood what had happened to the franchise until it was too late.

To me, ME was never a top-tier franchise; it felt like it was, it could have been, but Bioware excised a good portion of the ideas that made it unique and memorable. It's been coasting off the goodwill of the first game ever since.

I saw it coming from a mile away the second they got rid of the Mako. I knew right then and there that they were taking the franchise in another direction which, ultimately, wouldn't live up to what ME1 gave a glimpse of. The end of ME3 doesn't bother me nearly as much as what happened to the series with the sequels.
 

Tookay

Member
I saw it coming from a mile away the second they got rid of the Mako. I knew right then and there that they were taking the franchise in another direction which, ultimately, wouldn't live up to what ME1 gave a glimpse of. The end of ME3 doesn't bother me nearly as much as what happened to the series with the sequels.

You and me, brothers on this issue. Getting rid of the Mako, instead of fixing it, was a bad omen. A lot of the immersion, variety, and world-building went out with it.
 
What really gets me burned up anymore are these "professional" game journalists that go on about how we (the fans) overreact to the ME3 ending. First as the fans we can act anyway we want towards a product we buy. This was not some open ended artistic ending, this was a sloppy rush job. Also lets talk about false advertising, they had all this talk of grandeur yet we get a select your ending book adventure.

Another real crappy thing? The rest of the game is not that good. Outside a select few character moments the game is bland, lacks coherency, lazy (N7 missions I'm looking at you), and casualized. I mean come on, as I'm walking past an NPC I pick up quests, how streamlined can you make it before its just a book?

What the worst thing is? EA hide behind the whole "we have gay stuff that's why they hate it" thing. Its a slap in the face of gays and a slap in the face of the consumer.
 
You and me, brothers on this issue. Getting rid of the Mako, instead of fixing it, was a bad omen. A lot of the immersion, variety, and world-building went out with it.

Getting rid of the Mako and with it planetary exploration, removing the entire leveling system and replacing it with only skills, removing the entire inventory/ weapon customization were all bad signs. I feel like we never got a real sequel to Mass Effect.
 
Sure, Mass Effect 3 was unbelievably disappointing in a lot of its aspects, but in story driven games, the ending is what matters because you were trying to reach a goal and work towards something.

it's like climbing a mountain, you get all tools needed and all the help you can get, but you eventually discover that what you have climbed was a hill not a mountain.
 

Hero

Member
Well, you have to press the A button to interact with the world, so "press the A button to do what you need to do" feels like something most of the games have to do. There are only 3 obligatory turret sequences I can think of, and even they were well integrated in the story. You should play the game again, maybe it'll surprise you.

Yeah, during the last part of the game on Earth when you are saying your final goodbye to your squadmates and the transition between two buildings has this RANDOM TURRET SEQUENCE that's totally integrated well into the story.
 

pottuvoi

Banned
For me the realization of fill the bar for the 'good ending' was the real killer for ME3.

They really should have given an option to try to do small attacks to earth any time during the game as well as force start the final push even without crucible being anywhere near ready. (think Chrono Trigger.)
This would have given some sense of war for home front.

Also the whole earth being the only important thing in the universe was really bad as my character was from outer rim and anti-earth to begin with..
 

Ninjimbo

Member
The ending was the only egregious problem with the game considering the backlash. Personally, ME3 gave me what I wanted and its one of the best games I've played all year. I don't care about the ending all that much. I got what they were going for. They screwed up on it but I can forgive a botched ending when all the other side arcs wrapped up in a satisfying way.

I'll never understand the people who relentlessly bitch about it though. But then again, I'm not a super fan so maybe there's a lot of lore I'm ignorant to.
 

kai3345

Banned
While there was a bunch of dumb stuff throughout the game, like Vega and Kai Leng or the lack of Harbinger, none of it really affected my enjoyment of the game. But the ending not only retroactively ruined my experience with the game itself, but it did so with the entire trilogy as a whole.
 

inky

Member
I wasn't really enjoying myself up to the ending.

It just wasn't well designed. The quest stuff, the war points, the new characters, the multiplayer maps repurposed as bad sidequests, it was just not as good as Mass Effect 2. That's the point of a sequel, no? To do better than the last game?

.

Things like the galaxy map mini game (in which it is easier to die and reload than try to beat) Tali's picture, overhearing sidequests, etc. really show how Bioware as a team doesn't really give a shit about consistent quality and are content with phoning a lot of stuff in.

The big outrage was about the ending, so it's easy for people to point at that segment of the audience and drown their other non-ending related complaints as the voice of the entitled whiny masses. It's an easy way to dismiss criticism.

Overall, ME3 is an average game most of the times, with a couple of bright spots and a very competent MP portion.
 
I've played through ME 1 and 2 thrice and quit 3 ten hours in.

The story was just... the motivations for doing what I did infuriated the hell out of me. I had a big ass Reaper ship as a fucking monument about how right I was yet still, I couldn't amass a force of some sort through the council without having to play MAKE FRIENDS™ brought to you by BIOWARE®. Then I was lead to believe that the Protheans, a race wiped out like thousands before them had a weapon to break the cycle, HOW CONVENIENT?!?! Oh and my Shephard who doesn't give a fuck about anything is tormented by some punk ass kid even though by that point in trilogy she must have seen thousands of people die. Ugh!

I did like the MP, however.
 

PBalfredo

Member
Every time I watch an episode of Bonus Round and Mass Effect 3 comes up all I keep hearing is "of course there was a lot of backlash for this game about the ending" and then they talk about how fans overreacted but do any of these guys realize there was multiple issues with ME 3 that angered fans? Yes the ending was a big complaint but there were other problems with ME 3 like the fact that many of your decisions in the previous two games end up not mattering in this one (like the Rachni, who not only come back, but come back as enemies no matter what you did in ME1). Another big complaint was how linear the game was and how there was too much handholding and a lack of vehicle levels. There was also the fiasco with that prelude novel that bioware eventually backtracked on. I dunno It just bugs the hell out of me when these so called "journalists" and "gaming professionals" get on and start spouting opinions when they are so uninformed. Thoughts?

The Rachni thing wasn't a problem with Mass Effect 3, it was a problem with Mass Effect 1. The whole set up for the decision was flawed. It forced a situation in 3 where either something happens because there are Rachni still around, or nothing happens because they're all dead. So outside of possibly feeling bad for murding queen space bug, all killing the Rachni in 1 would do is guarantee that the player is locked out of some content in 3 they would of had if they spared the Rachni.
 

subversus

I've done nothing with my life except eat and fap
Yeah, during the last part of the game on Earth when you are saying your final goodbye to your squadmates and the transition between two buildings has this RANDOM TURRET SEQUENCE that's totally integrated well into the story.

yeah, that was one of those parts where I was shaking my head at how Bioware lost their touch.
 

subversus

I've done nothing with my life except eat and fap
The Rachni thing wasn't a problem with Mass Effect 3, it was a problem with Mass Effect 1. The whole set up for the decision was flawed. It forced a situation in 3 where either something happens because there are Rachni still around, or nothing happens because they're all dead. So outside of possibly feeling bad for murding queen space bug, all killing the Rachni in 1 would do is guarantee that the player is locked out of some content in 3 they would of had if they spared the Rachni.

locking content out is the fucking point . Because when the story branches you can't see what happens on the other branch because it's not physically possible. The Witcher 2 locks out the whole chapter based on your choices. That is the way it was promised by Bioware and this is why I played this shitty excuse of a franchise.
 

PBalfredo

Member
Yeah, during the last part of the game on Earth when you are saying your final goodbye to your squadmates and the transition between two buildings has this RANDOM TURRET SEQUENCE that's totally integrated well into the story.

They were in a war zone. It makes perfect sense that there would be enemies to fend off from a forward command base. Helps break up the feeling of "This is a town, so I know we're perfectly safe forever" which is the most video-gamey shit ever.
 

Tookay

Member
locking content out is the fucking point . Because when the story branches you can't see what happens on the other branch because it's not physically possible. The Witcher 2 locks out the whole chapter based on your choices. That is the way it was promised by Bioware and this is why I played this shitty excuse of a franchise.

The issue here is that you're never going to find that sort of sensibility in a AAA budget game from EA/Activision/Ubisoft, because designing locked off scenarios like that is a waste of resources/money. That's why this "choose your own adventure" concept for this series was ill-conceived (especially when it turned into a trilogy), because it was never going to live up to its promise.

We're all better off looking to indie games and smaller devs for games that have the balls to actually give meaning to your choices.
 

DTKT

Member
Yeah, during the last part of the game on Earth when you are saying your final goodbye to your squadmates and the transition between two buildings has this RANDOM TURRET SEQUENCE that's totally integrated well into the story.

That was one of the weirdest moment in the entire game. I remember just being really confused at who thought that was a good idea.
 

Fjordson

Member
Yeah, there's so much more wrong with Mass Effect 3 than just the ending.

It's not even that I completely hated it, I was just really bored by the time I hit the last third of the game or so. Monotonous corridor shooting save for a few memorable missions that didn't feel like a big step forward from ME 2, really dull side quests (and the whole idea where you eavesdrop on conversations to get them was terrible), the galactic readiness system or whatever it was called was one big clusterfuck, and I had plenty of smaller problems with the story before I hit the ending. Kai Leng for example, who was a god awful villain in that I had no clue who the hell he was or why I should be worried about him.

I wasn't even that hyped up for it to begin with since I wasn't in love with ME 2, but it feels disappointing since there are some neat ideas and story beats throughout the series and it had a lot of potential coming off of ME 1. But after that first game my excitement waned pretty rapidly.

edit:

Kai Leng is where the EU shit collides with the main series in the most awkward way possible. Just terrible.
So he's from the books and/or comics then? I knew it had to be something like that. I was literally dumbfounded as to why this guy was supposed to be some big obstacle for Shepard when he first showed up in the game. Makes perfect sense now since I've never read any of the non-game fiction.
 
There were many things wrong with ME3, but the ending was the worst part. I only ever saw the extended cut, but that was still rushed an annoying.

Seriously, the whole 3 game saga doesn't matter at all, the only thing that matters are the last 10 minutes. And I don't even really understood how I "chose" my ending. Shepard just runs into the light and the game chooses for me. (Well I did do the ending the first time where I reject all options and stand on my own two feet, that was boss).


Problems to me were:

1) Shepard was too overpowered, at least as a Vanguard. I literally could not die, unless I got hit by a one-hit kill. My vanguard could take out a mech singlehandedly. it did make me feel badass, though. But I only ever used one gun the whole game, and i never actually used the gun i had equipped. All I needed was Blast Charge and Nova. I'd Charge, which would fill up my shield to 100%, Nova, and then charge again to refill my shield.

2) Choices don't matter. Hey, I killed the alien council on ME1 and then put only humans in charge...why are the aliens back?
 

Shepard

Member
Yeah, during the last part of the game on Earth when you are saying your final goodbye to your squadmates and the transition between two buildings has this RANDOM TURRET SEQUENCE that's totally integrated well into the story.

Yes, I'll give you that one. The final moments leading to the end were kinda rushed. Also, looking into a gameplay perspective, it was a nice change of pacing. I just think that every talk about ME3 turns into a: OMG that's the worst game everrrr, when that's clearly not the case. In fact, I have a feeling it will place really well in Gaf's GoTY poll.

Ps:. I stand my opinion that the end is really, really good, and most people didn't comprehend it or just plain hated it because it wasn't what they wanted.
 
So he's from the books and/or comics then? I knew it had to be something like that. I was literally dumbfounded as to why this guy was supposed to be some big obstacle for Shepard when he first showed up in the game. Makes perfect now since I've never read any of the non-game fiction.

He's a character in some of the books. There was a famous thread on NeoGAF where a user made an entertaining comic recap of the book that came out just before ME3 did, which can be found here

Prologue to get you warmed up:

AELwf.jpg
 

Sojgat

Member
ME3 is disappointing because of:

-one hub world
-eavesdropping Shepard quest giver laziness
-pointless war readiness "system"
-reduced dialogue options
-lack of polish in many levels
-lack of gameplay variety
-lack of payoff for many story threads including most squadmates from the 2nd game
-Kai Leng
-Vent Kid
-Both versions of the Ending, extended edition fixes none of the larger complaints

My most personal nitpick is that you could no longer holster your weapons, that shit drove me crazy. Combat is improved, but the MP ended up being the best part of the game, which is just sad. The game was rushed out the door barely finished, end of story.
 

LAUGHTREY

Modesty becomes a woman
Dis-regarding the ending its my favorite Mass Effect. The payoff I got with Legion and Tali, the gameplay, the rest of it was really excellent for me.


I didn't play the extended cut/any DLC, but really me personally the only problem I had was the ending. I didn't even know anyone else had that big of issue with anything else...

Even Freddie Prinze Jrs character didnt bother me that much, he was a dudebrodude but you could easily ignore him.
 

El-Suave

Member
My main problem wasn't even the ending cutscene, even though it could have been better of course. I hated the final space battle and its payoff. In ME1 and ME2 it was clearly shown what benefits I got in the end through my decisions. What factions I won for my cause, what enhancements I made to my ship etc.. That all seemed to fall under the table in ME3's big end battle. I expected it to be more like the narrative of Babylon 5 and Deep Space 9. I wanted every race that was with me to be clearly identified, and the absence of the races, people and investments I lost should have been addressed as well. To me it all seemed muddled and downright lazy.
 

Shepard

Member
ME3 is disappointing because of:

-one hub world
-eavesdropping Shepard quest giver laziness
-pointless war readiness "system"
-reduced dialogue options
-lack of polish in many levels
-lack of gameplay variety
-lack of payoff for many story threads including most squadmates from the 2nd game
-Kai Leng
-Vent Kid
-Both versions of the Ending, extended edition fixes none of the larger complaints

My most personal nitpick is that you could no longer holster your weapons, that shit drove me crazy. Combat is improved, but the MP ended up being the best part of the game, which is just sad. The game was rushed out the door barely finished, end of story.

To counter some of your points:
- Same as ME1 and 2?
- The readiness system wasn't pointless. In fact, it was the whole "point" of the game. It helped to make things truly stand out as an intergalactic war, leading you to find allies all over the galaxy.
- Lack of Polish? Care to give some examples?
- The gameplay had more variety than both 1 and 2. Yet people complain when they changed things a bit...
- The stories that deserved a payoff had a great part in ME3. The only sqaudmates I can think that fit your description are Miranda and Jacob, and both of them had kinda of a conclusion to their stories in ME2.
- Really, I still can't see what's so wrong with the ending, but that's me.
 

Hero

Member
They were in a war zone. It makes perfect sense that there would be enemies to fend off from a forward command base. Helps break up the feeling of "This is a town, so I know we're perfectly safe forever" which is the most video-gamey shit ever.

It making sense is one thing, it being well integrated is another. There is literally no reason for that sequence to be in the game at all because all it does is break the pacing of what are your final moments with the squad members you've come to know over three games. Except the characters you met in ME2, because it's not like they would've wasted development time on storylines for each of those characters when it's possible for all of them to have died during ME2's ending. That's another huge issue in ME3 because anyone who actually matters in ME2 is just fucking replaced by some generic member of their race. For a series that touts its branching storyline and possibilities it was seriously way out of the scope and reach for Bioware to deliver.

yeah, that was one of those parts where I was shaking my head at how Bioware lost their touch.

After Dragon Age and Mass Effect I'm done with Bioware.

Yes, I'll give you that one. The final moments leading to the end were kinda rushed. Also, looking into a gameplay perspective, it was a nice change of pacing. I just think that every talk about ME3 turns into a: OMG that's the worst game everrrr, when that's clearly not the case. In fact, I have a feeling it will place really well in Gaf's GoTY poll.

Ps:. I stand my opinion that the end is really, really good, and most people didn't comprehend it or just plain hated it because it wasn't what they wanted.

ME3 is an average to above average game at its best. There are some damn fine moments in the game like Mordin Solus' sacrifice or the time capsule part with Liara but for every good thing it does there are at least two bad things they do. Like everything they ever did with Kai Leng, Rachni, lack of a final boss, generic stock photo for Tali's face, etc. The biggest bullshit this year was how most every major news outlet gave the game glowing perfect scores when the game obviously needed another year and virtually none of them even had the morale sense to warn fans that the ending is divisive (at best).
 

Shepard

Member
ME3 is an average to above average game at its best. There are some damn fine moments in the game like Mordin Solus' sacrifice or the time capsule part with Liara but for every good thing it does there are at least two bad things they do. Like everything they ever did with Kai Leng, Rachni, lack of a final boss, generic stock photo for Tali's face, etc. The biggest bullshit this year was how most every major news outlet gave the game glowing perfect scores when the game obviously needed another year and virtually none of them even had the morale sense to warn fans that the ending is divisive (at best).

I didn't know the end was considered "bad" until after I read here on Gaf. Maybe, just maybe, they, like me, enjoyed the game?
 
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