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[Refreshment.01]

You sure about that?

Of course i am, the pics look absolutely cartoony due to the color choices. I played the game, for me it needed a more visceral and realistic representation of the acts of violence in tandem with the subject that it treats to be a more effective message carrier.

 

[antitrop]

Of course i am, the pics looks absolutly cartoony with the color choices. I played the game, for me it needed a more visceral and realistic representation of the acts of violence.

I know what you mean, I blame Unreal Engine 3. It comes with the territory.

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

How about this?

 

[NinjaBoiX]

Yeah, the white phosphorus scene was pretty rough.

First time I actually glanced away playing a game. The mother shielding her child from the blast, all charred with a utterly horrified expression baked onto her face. Urgh, it definitely had the effect they were going for...

Edit: *above* yup, that one.

Gulp.

 

[Des0lar]

It was a pretty cool story but the game just has so many flaws on a lot of levels:

The gameplay is atrociously boring. You simply kill wave after wave of braindead enemies. That took out all the impact of them being "just American soldiers". They may as well could have been zombies.
They tried to make the kills impactful but killing 500+ enemies as a team of three just felt stupid in a game like Spec Ops.

The story twist was entirely expected and while they sometimes present you with options to choose, it never really matters except for the 4 ending possibilities.

Yeah so personally I felt nothing playing this game. I accepted the message the developers tried to convey, but that's it. It didn't help that the gameplay was simply boring.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

How about this?

That really did disturb me, along with the creepy sound effects/music that played during that scene.

 

[antitrop]

Speaking of music, it's one of the best parts of the entire game! The soundtrack is really fantastic throughout.

Glasgow Mega-Snake by Mogwai

Just call me the Radio Man.

 

[Rezbit]

The story was interesting I suppose, but it was pretty much just Heart of Darkness. There were a couple of intense moments.

The stuff outside of the story (the gameplay) really didn't click with me. I found the gameplay terribly dull. For all the stuff about being a mature video game, the problem is it's still a video game, and it just wasn't that good to play.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

I always like the little slow motion effect when you get a head shot. If you keep chaining them, it can look pretty cool.

 

[Refreshment.01]

I know what you mean, I blame Unreal Engine 3. It comes with the territory.

Also another important factor is in terms of sound. When someone is dying (not instantly) there should be crying, heavy breathing and insults throw towards the Victimizer. Remember that some of the opposition remains injured in the floor, it would have helped the game's somber atmoshpere. In that case also the partners should be cursing the sh!t out of Walker for killing one of their own.

If there's one game where the Ulta violence would fit, it was this one.

How about this?

I told you guys already, i played the game, that's the WP incident. It's very tame stuff for what the game in trying to convey. Either a better tech base, more skillful artisits or better attention to detail was needed. The game seems a bit low budget also, might be another reason.

 

[Sadist]

Got this gifted a few weeks ago (thanks Zeitgeister!) and I completed it... about 12 days ago or something? The game itself is competent, though not surprising in the gameplay department. It's your standard third person shooter including cover mechanics, which is fine. The story however was something else. Sure the twist was pretty obvious, but the way it plays out thanks to the script, theme and voiceacting are very well done.

It was disgusting, it made you think; that's the whole point of the game.

Sir, how did you survive?

Who said I did?

How about this?

I actually felt sorry about that part. Chills down my spine.

 

[MickeyKnox]

I know what you mean, I blame Unreal Engine 3. It comes with the territory.

The physiological impact people get from performing an action in this game is tied to context not so much the visual fidelity.

Ultimately the best thing that I can say about this game is that I did not enjoy playing it at all, I got through the whole thing in around 5 hours and it felt I hadn't changed clothes or showered in days from the stress and discomfort of the experience.

 

[Bob White]

If it wasn't for FTL, this would totally be my game of the year. Fucking amazing.

 

[sTeLioSco]

Got this gifted a few weeks ago (thanks Zeitgeister!) and I completed it... about 12 days ago or something? The game itself is competent, though not surprising in the gameplay department. It's your standard third person shooter including cover mechanics, which is fine. The story however was something else. Sure the twist was pretty obvious, but the way it plays out thanks to the script, theme and voiceacting are very well done.

It was disgusting, it made you think; that's the whole point of the game.

Sir, how did you survive?

Who said I did?

also,there are different endings

 

[antitrop]

Also another important factor is in terms of sound. When someone is dying (not instantly) there should be crying, heavy breathing and insults throw towards the Victimizer. Remember that some of the opposition remains injured in the floor, it would have helped the game's somber atmoshpere. In that case also the partners should be cursing the sh!t out of Walker for killing one of their own.

I could not agree more. Playing through this game several times gave me a million great ideas to improve upon what was already there.

 

[REV 09]

the revelation that you were the "bad" guy and "not all there" was painfully obvious. Moreover, i greatly disliked the main character which is partly why i don't care for the game. I just don't like playing as someone that i dislike....same goes for Kratos in GOW.

The gameplay is also very run-of-the-mill stuff. Just a mediocre title all around in my opinion and greatly over-hyped by Gaf. the 75 metacritic score is about right.

 

[Portugeezer]

Black Ops 2 burning alive was more disturbing.

 

[Sadist]

also,there are different endings

Gentlemen, welcome to Dubai

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

I've still got about an hour left and i'm not really feeling the edginess of the game to be honest. I think i'm just desensitized to all game violence nowadays. Burned a field full of civs? Didn't bat an eyelid (in fact I was awaiting my kill streak activation!). Also, i'm not American, so the idea of killing American troops does not phase me at all. I suppose Nolan fucking North doing the lead voice also takes away some of the credibility of the character since it might as well be Nathan Drake, Prince of Persia or Vashyron committing mass murder (er, again?). The game's plot is also basically a rehash of Apocalypse Now, so I can see everything coming from a mile off. It's just you are crossing a desert city rather than taking a boat up Da Nang - hardly a revolution in story telling if you ask me. But I suppose at any minute someone will storm in to declare that the gameplay being generically subpar and the plot being derivative was somehow a "point" being made..

People praise this game every week but Kane and Lynch 2 gets nothing. Maybe I'm just the only person who finds this so attached to its source material and desire to feel bad to the point where it's a parody of the intended message.

You and me both - now that was a game that I actually felt dirty just by playing. The blurring out of dead body's faces hit me harder than any scene in Spec Ops, since it's such a simple but eerily plausible touch. It's like watching a disaster unfolding on LiveLeak.

 

[antitrop]

"Captain Walker: Go fuck yourself!
Radioman: Woah woah! Let's keep it clean! This is, after all, a family program! Rated E for EVERYONE'S THIRSTY!"

Writing in this game is fantastic.

 

[EatinOlives]

If there's one game where the Ulta violence would fit, it was this one.

Yeah, no. Ultra-violence decidedly kills any disturbing factor the game has and would've swung it right into adolescent Gears of War crap. More =/= better.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

Black Ops 2 burning alive was more disturbing.

You kind of expect it with CoD though. It needs to be more shocking each time.

CoD4-killed in a nuke
WaW-flaming Charlie falling from trees
MW2-"No Russian"
BlOps-hillside massacre
MW3-blow up little girl with dirty bomb
BlOps2-"I dunno, maybe we burn a guy alive? Kinda out of ideas now."

 

[antitrop]

"Was John Konrad the greatest man I ever served with? Well, I dunno. There was this one time in Kabul when he dragged my bleeding carcass half a mile to the evac chopper, so maybe i'm biased. But the facts don't lie. The man's a fuckin' hero. Remember when the first storms hit Dubai? You were probably safe and sound at home watchin' TV. Well, Konrad was leadin' the damned 33rd outta Afghanistan. 'Stead of comin' home, he volunteered his entire battalion to help with the evac. But all you did was send a check. Rumor is Konrad was ordered to abandon the city. He defied that order. And the 33rd stood with him. Now, the official story's still hazy 'bout what happened next. All we know for sure is the storms got worse. Much worse. Last thing we heard outta Dubai was that Konrad was leading a caravan of survivors outta the city. That was six months ago. Then, two weeks ago, we picked up this transmission... "

 

[Bog]

The first time that I played and came to the scene where Lugo is hung, I shot into the crowd with an actual feeling of anger - that really surprised.

This is about the only worthwhile part of the game. It's a generic shooter with a "twist" that just didn't matter by the end.

 

[Refreshment.01]

I could not agree more. Playing through this game several times gave me a million great ideas to improve upon what was already there.

That's something the guys (like the ones from Yagger , sorry for any spelling mistakes) should strife for.

Hopefuly with the next round of consoles and the improved fidelity should help actually eliciting some emotions due to the act of killing in a video game. And yes, i am aware the tech is just a part to reach that goal, there are other factors. Imagine having a well done AI character like Alyx, get the player attached and invested through out the game just to have her killed in a very gruesome and realistic way.

Yeah, no. Ultra-violence decidedly kills any disturbing factor the game has and would've swung it right into adolescent Gears of War crap. More =/= better.

This is a easy way out answer, you play the adolescent thirst for violence just to rest some merit out of what im trying to convey here. But maybe i missused the term. I meant a realistic depection of violance, it would have awaked more vividly the feelings of desperation in to the player. That was part of what the creators wanted with the game, so how come my suggestion becomes absurd?

 

[Kenshin001]

Really enjoyed the game and its narrative, one of my candidates for GOTY for what it attempted to achieve, but the initial confrontation with the US soldiers felt really contrived and unrealistic and lots of parts made no sense.

The choice of shooting the two hanging men. Why were the snipers there? To give the illusion that you had no choice which as it transpired wasn't the case. Then there was the ending. You engage in this huge crescendo battle only to find their commander has been dead for a long time. So what the hell was that about? They were defending a ghost? Thought that was kind of dumb.

 

[ErikB]

Incidentally, (and Walt Williams is the writer of Spec Ops)

Jack Thompson...

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Erik, it's so sad that you think you're making a point.

 

[EatinOlives]

This is a easy way out answer, you play the adolescent thirst for violence just rest some merit to what im trying to say. But maybe i missused the term. I meant a realistic depection of violance, it would have awaked more vividly the feelings of desperation in to the player. That was part of what the creators wanted with the game, so how come my suggestion becomes absurd?

Because "realistic violence" is not really "violent" at all. A bullet doesn't hit a person in real life and a fountain of blood pours out. These kinds of effects have to be exaggerated in every form of visual entertainment as well, including movies and TV shows for it to even be visible. There wasn't anything particularly "unrealistic" about the violence in Spec Ops any more than other games. The subdued elements actually made it more disturbing.

Disturbing doesn't mean more violent. It's why many of the most successful horror films have very little violence, if any at all. It's about building the atmosphere, the circumstances the characters find themselves in, the plot, etc., all of which the game handled just fine.

If you're looking at the civilian WP scene and the only thing you can think of is "LOOK AT THEM COLORS. SO CARTOONY. WHERE THE BLOOD?", you've missed the point entirely.

 

[shintoki]

The shocks moments don't work. Why? Because it's a video game. When you've just killed 200 people prior. What's another 30 on top? Murder meant nothing from the start. And it continually keeps trying to one up itself.

 

[antitrop]

The shocks moments don't work. Why? Because it's a video game. When you've just killed 200 people prior. What's another 30 on top? Murder meant nothing from the start. And it continually keeps trying to one up itself.

I'd say join the Army then, because you might be expecting too much out of a video game.

 

[ErikB]

Erik, it's so sad that you think you're making a point.

You really want to sit through moralising in your video games?

like, a racing game that harps on about the irresponsibility of playing driving games since they encourage people to drive recklessly?

Maybe a sports game that constantly notes that you are actually sitting on your arse playing a video game, and not actually playing a sport, you fat fuck?

 

[Refreshment.01]

Because "realistic violence" is not really "violent" at all. A bullet doesn't hit a person in real life and a fountain of blood pours out. These kinds of effects have to be exaggerated in every form of visual entertainment as well, including movies and TV shows for it to even be visible. There wasn't anything particularly "unrealistic" about the violence in Spec Ops any more than other games. The subdued elements actually made it more disturbing.

Disturbing doesn't mean more violent. It's why many of the most successful horror films have very little violence, if any at all. It's about building the atmosphere, the circumstances the characters find themselves in, the plot, etc., all of which the game handled just fine.

If you're looking at the civilian WP scene and the only thing you can think of is "LOOK AT THEM COLORS. SO CARTOONY. WHERE THE BLOOD?", you've missed the point entirely.

Well you don't get what im saying and that's fair. You failed to see or didn't wanto to, the part about other kind of feedback like "sound" when i replied to antitrop.

Discussion over from my part. XD

@antitrop, you seem to have a very firm grasp of this game. If you (PLEASE) and if is not to much to ask for of course. Do a summary of the plot or link to a good one. Lately im having a hard time focusing on plots, easily lose tracks of things. Let me know if you are willing

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

In terms of "moral third person shooters", Binary Domain shits all over Spec Ops. Spoilers:

Spoiler

You are a hardcore robot hating dude who spends the whole game killing thousands of robots. You end up romancing the Chinese lady in your team, only to discover near the end that she is in fact the daughter of a hybrid robot capable of conceiving children. The bad guy turns out to actually have been dead for decades and is now a robot himself, and manipulates the Chinese lady into turning on the team through a "one of us" mentality. The entire stand-off takes many twists and turns and just makes you think what you would have done if your waifu was really the thing you most despise. Powerful stuff.... lol

 

[tdrdrgn]

Hated the game. Everything in this game is out to make you feel bad. Everything. Teammates constantly telling you throughout the latter half of the game that you've made terrible decisions (even though they do nothing about it and still follow your every command), Konrad on the radio stating all the horrors you’ve done to the people in Dubai, the choices given to you only having negative outcomes (yes I know, no right choices in war), the civilians with their derogatory and hateful comments, even re/ loading screens with quotes like "Do you feel like a hero yet?" after all the obvious atrocities you’ve committed throughout the game only adds fuel to the fire in attempting to making you feel like a piece of shit human being. I know that was the whole point of the game, but It’s sort of hilarious how blatantly heavy-handed the game attempts to hit you over the head with its overlying message.

edit- was it just me or did executing people give you more ammo?

 

[CoachKevin]

Binary Domain is next on my list of games to finish, I think I am 3-4 hours in.

 

[G.O.O.]

I finished it yesterday and will use it as an example of what a mature game truly is from now on. And yeah, it made me feel like shit aswell.

CoD will give you a fun war-fighting time. Spec Ops will give you PTSD.

 

[Des0lar]

I'd say join the Army then, because you might be expecting too much out of a video game.

That's not his point. I feel the same way as him. Ghey are trying to break the fourth wall and make you think about the horrible things you are doing but then they make you a supersoldier who kills more than 200 trained soldiers with his 2 buddys all the time before...

 

[Nert]

You really want to sit through moralising in your video games?

like, a racing game that harps on about the irresponsibility of playing driving games since they encourage people to drive recklessly?

Maybe a sports game that constantly notes that you are actually sitting on your arse playing a video game, and not actually playing a sport, you fat fuck?

I would *love* it with more games tried to tell stories that had actual themes or messages to them (particularly for games that bother to have cutscenes and the like already; I'm not asking for games like Pac-Man CE DX to try to move me to tears). Anything is better than yet another "you are the chosen one" story at this point.

Edit: But sure, if every game story suddenly switched over from being about how you're the chosen one to being about how violence "is totally fucked up, man," then yeah, I'd get tired of that too. Variety is nice.

 

[AwShucks]

Spec Ops is my favorite game of the year

This. This so hard. The gameplay is decent enough but the story really drove me and the endings were just great no matter which one you got. And even the ability to do things in the epilogue. So good.

Yes some parts were tough to watch. My wife told me she could barely watch a couple of the rougher scenes. But I think it's worth it.

 

[ErikB]

I would *love* it with more games tried to tell stories that had actual themes or messages to them

I don't disagree. I just want them to choose a theme other than 'playing video games makes you a bad person'.

If you can't do that, stick to the chosen one, thankyouverymuch.

 

[antitrop]

That's not his point. I feel the same way as him. Ghey are trying to break the fourth wall and make you think about the horrible things you are doing but then they make you a supersoldier who kills more than 200 trained soldiers with his 2 buddys all the time before...

Which is why I was very interested in Six Days in Fallujah. Of course it got dropped because of bitching and moaning about it being "too soon".

 

[volpone]

Incidentally, (and Walt Williams is the writer of Spec Ops)

Jack Thompson...

But he's right and you're wrong. How do you not see this?

He's not trying to censor videogames or impose draconian legislation upon them, he's maturely discussing the real issue that stems from the mass consumption of shooting games that often handle their subject matter irresponsibly. When shooting is the aim of a game, and the game rewards and reinforces the player's choice to pull the trigger, this issue is compounded when a game glosses over the value of a human life - especially when that life may represent a minority that is largely misunderstood by the masses and is misrepresented by the media (Iraqis/Afghans/Iranians/Russians etc.). When resolving the complicated relationship between the west and the middle-east is boiled down to the choice between pointing a gun or seeing the game over screen you can only wonder how this may be affecting what people who are uninformed about such issues are passively learning. The fact that Xbox users were statistically more favourable about drone strikes in a recent presidential election poll is really concerning. Maybe there is a link after all. And when a game like Battlefield 3 seems to resemble a prophecy for a glorious American invasion of Iran this shit starts to become downright worrying. The fact is these games constantly represent western imperialism as nothing but a good thing and that ain't kosher yo.

But hey, that stuff ain't important.

EDIT: And that is essentially what Spec Ops is doing buddy. The message isn't that you're a bad person for playing videogames, rather the people who make irresponsible modern shooters fucking suck.

 

[Jintor]

You really want to sit through moralising in your video games?

like, a racing game that harps on about the irresponsibility of playing driving games since they encourage people to drive recklessly?

Maybe a sports game that constantly notes that you are actually sitting on your arse playing a video game, and not actually playing a sport, you fat fuck?

I don't see why not. People get different things out of video games. I, for example, like to think.

 

[antitrop]

@antitrop, you seem to have a very firm grasp of this game. If you (PLEASE) and if is not to much to ask for of course. Do a summary of the plot or link to a good one. Lately im having a hard time focusing on plots, easily lose tracks of things. Let me know if you are willing

Campster, one of my favorite game analysts on YouTube, did a great Errant Signal episode about Spec Ops a few months back. Definitely worth a watch.

Anyone else who has played Spec Ops and wants to see it a little deeper, feel free to watch. He does a great job.

It's very spoiler heavy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlBrenhzMZI

 

[ErikB]

rather the people who make irresponsible modern shooters fucking suck.

They only make em because people like me like playing them.

 

[volpone]

They only make em because people like me like playing them.

How quaint. Did you think this response resembled intelligence or wit in the slightest?

 

[Refreshment.01]

But he's right and you're wrong. How do you not see this?

He's not trying to censor videogames or impose draconian legislation upon them, he's maturely discusses the real issue that stems from the mass consumption of shooting games that often handle their subject matter irresponsibly. When shooting is the aim of a game, and the game rewards and reinforces the player's choice to pull the trigger, things become complicated when a game glosses over the value of a human life - especially when that life may represent a minority that is largely misunderstood by the masses and misrepresented by the media (Iraqis/Afghans/Iranians/Russians etc.). When resolving the complicated relationship between the west and the middle-east is boiled down to the choice between pointing a gun or seeing the game over screen you can only wonder how this may be affecting what people who are generally uninformed about such issues might be passively learning. The fact that Xbox users were statistically more favourable about drone strikes than not in the recent presidential poll is really concerning. Maybe there is a link after all. And when a game like Battlefield 3 seems to resemble a prophecy for a glorious American invasion of Iran this shit starts to become really quite worrying. The fact is these games constantly represent western imperialism as nothing but a good thing and that ain't kosher yo.

But hey, that stuff ain't important.

EDIT: And that is essentially what Spec Ops is doing buddy. The message isn't that you're a bad person for playing videogames, rather the people who make irresponsible modern shooters fucking suck.

I won't f*ck this by saying i agree or disagree, but it was a post worth it of every second spended reading it. Well done.

Campster, one of my favorite game analysts on YouTube, did a great Errant Signal episode about Spec Ops a few months back. Definitely worth a watch.

Anyone else who has played Spec Ops and wants to see it a little deeper, feel free to watch. He does a great job.

It's very spoiler heavy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlBrenhzMZI

He talks about thinks specific to the plot or is just another vidgame critic? Anyway, i'll watch it later. Thanks for sharing it

 

[Scrabble]

the revelation that you were the "bad" guy and "not all there" was painfully obvious. Moreover, i greatly disliked the main character which is partly why i don't care for the game. I just don't like playing as someone that i dislike....same goes for Kratos in GOW.

The gameplay is also very run-of-the-mill stuff. Just a mediocre title all around in my opinion and greatly over-hyped by Gaf. the 75 metacritic score is about right.

This seems to be a criticism that's exclusively geared towards games and I've never quite figured out why. I know plenty of examples in all types of media with deliberately flawed and unlikable protagonists which help the plot. Is it because in a video game we just naturally project ourselves onto the character to a point if were not playing as a fantasy of our selves then we don't appreciate it? It's something I want to see explored more in games but every time a game goes in that direction people almost always respond negatively to it.

 

[antitrop]

He talks about thinks specific to the plot or is just another vidgame critic? Anyway, i'll watch it later. Thanks for sharing it

It's a complete plot analysis. It's not a game review or summary.