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[antitrop]

Erik, you're working off thirdhand made-up information with no basis in critical reality. You have no leg to stand on. Please stop posting until you can argue rationally.

He would have to play the fucking game first, hahaha.

 

[Johnny Cage In The Shower]

The biggest issue this game had was that firefights were too frequent and you fought too many enemies, given that the shooting wasn't up to par with the best shooters out there. This, of all games, should have been one to make use of a bit more realism in the game-play. Not as much time spent in combat and more time exploring the ruins, perhaps even talking to civilians or other characters, would have been better.

I agree, ironically the constant onslaught of enemies took away from the message the game is trying to convey... Also I would've appreciated if there were a bit more "touching" moments of eves dropping on the US troops, talking about their families back home and the beautiful sunset before you come out of cover and blow their brains out with a shotgun at point blank.

That was cool and all, but when you kill 15 mohawked, knife wielding, bath salts induced crazies charging at you before and after that, you don't seem to care about killing the enemy even if it's suppose to be "one of us".

I wish there was more sections where the soldiers you were fighting actually felt more human and vulnerable and you still killed them anyway, maybe show them being wounded and crawling to safety while you finish them off, or trapped in some room while you pick them off from a higher vantage point.

I found the enemy very challenging, and they kept coming at me and shooting, not just at me, also at my team, so I really didn't feel bad killing them..

I do get the final message of the game, but I have to say there could have been a better way of presenting it. instead of sprinkling little random sections of the game with "OMG look what you did, you monster, you cold hearted, evil bastard!!" ie: White Phosphor attack, they should made you feel like a sick fuck at the last quarter of the game in a more of a gradual fashion.

Some people may still think that the game successfully achieved that, but I still think the meat of the game ( the constant gun fights) could have been more quality and less quantity and better staged for the story.

 

[Refreshment.01]

This seems to be a criticism that's exclusively geared towards games and I've never quite figured out why. I know plenty of examples in all types of media with deliberately flawed and unlikable protagonists which help the plot. Is it because in a video game we just naturally project ourselves onto the character to a point if were not playing as a fantasy of our selves then we don't appreciate it? It's something I want to see explored more in games but every time a game goes in that direction people almost always respond negatively to it.

Not surprising, there's even a legendary example of a game (a good one btw) that it stired a masive backlash because of the protagonist.

The gameplay is only "horrible" if you don't turn it down to Easy.
There are legitimate complaints that can be made at the game's balance, but at worst the gameplay is average.
Nothing about the gameplay is "broken", and it's at least serviceable enough to not ruin the overall experience. Certainly not the high point and nobody has ever claimed such.

If you played the game on Medium or higher I'm not saying you "played the game wrong", but I will argue that you did yourself a disservice.

Yes, i played the game is the highest difficulty, here all the game's mechanic falws show off easily. Im guessing the people who enjoyed the game the most are the ones who played it in low diff. settings, to just absorve the plot more than anything else.

Won't go as far as calling it (gameplay) "horrible" either but "insubstantial" maybe, nothing special at all at least.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

I actually thought most of the story stuff was lame and ham-handed and the shooting didn't feel all that great after experiencing Binary Domain's amazing combat, but I still had fun with it.

 

[MaritalWheat]

I thoroughly enjoyed this game. Pretty much all they tried worked for me, and I loved that at most 'big' character defining moment you could make the choice that felt right to you, without it being explicitly plastered on your screen in the form of "okay now press the corresponding button to be the good guy or bad guy." One of the first ones, where you first contact Conrad and you're faced with the choice to execute one of the guys strung up on the bridge, I figured I'd be instakilled if I tried otherwise, but I actually could manage to play my way out of it with killing neither. It was even better when I found out later, after my buddy got strung up himself I could have just fired warning shots over the crowd--but they did a good job of heating me up enough that I didn't even think and just...shot. Also, the radio man was perfect--he DID make me go crazy. I rolled my eyes when I first heard him, but over the course of the lead up to confronting him completely played into the reactions they designed him to elicit.

I actually even found many of the encounters to be very well designed and fun to play, and had the rare experience of enjoying a squad and the limited command I had over them; the only real complaints I had were that the gunplay itself was only so-so, and that as others have said, they lost something by the overwhelming amount of enemies they have you cut through.

But really, a hidden gem, well worth the $10-$15 you can get it for and the ~7 hours it takes to beat.

Edit: Oh, man, and that ending "mission" if you don't kill yourself...perfect.

 

[RocketDarkness]

I only watched the LP on SomethingAwful, but I greatly approve of this game and what it does/tries do do.

Here, there's some phenomenal screenshots over at Dead End Thrills. Enjoy.

 

[Jintor]

There's a comparison for ya, Binary Domain and Spec Ops.

 

[volpone]

antitrop, stop making me want to play this game again you dog. I don't have the time for it.

 

[saveweyard]

Can anyone play video games without having considered this and made their peace with it?

Is this relevant? Not really (but the answer is yes, for many, many people, anyway).

Its not a matter of if it has been thought about before, its a matter of why are you (not you specifically but the people who consume military shooters and the like in general) okay with it? And are you really okay with it? What does that say about video games? About visual media in general?

Sure its not a new question, but its one seldom brought up in a video game itself, instead of outside the game. If the medium has something important to say, if it is going to be taken seriously, it has to ask questions like this one that literature and film have been asking for years and years.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Amazing game. I've started reading the book about it but haven't had time to get into it much yet.

People praise this game every week but Kane and Lynch 2 gets nothing. Maybe I'm just the only person who finds this so attached to its source material and desire to feel bad to the point where it's a parody of the intended message.

I'd never considered k&l2 that way to be honest but it's actually quite a good comparison. The unrelenting ugliness of the game is definitely a deliberate tonal choice, and that extends to the plot and characterisation as much as the YouTube filter.

 

[Refreshment.01]

I definitely think it fails in that specific area, but I can't think of how else to do that scene. In a sense, the designers need to force your hand to make you perform that action, because the fact that it's Walker's (or the player's) hand on the trigger is important. But it felt so... artificial it takes a lot of the sting out of the rest of the game.

Well, the designers could have just leave everything as it is now. So Adams presents Walker with the course of action, typically the player does what the game instructs him to do. But leave the option to tackle the camp guns blazing, the same way the player have done it till that point.

 

[antitrop]

antitrop, stop making me want to play this game again you dog. I don't have the time for it.

My last playthrough was 2 hours and 58 minutes on Easy. Your excuse holds no water.

I don't care what anyone says, Dubai is still the number 1 vacation destination for company men worldwide.

 

[ErikB]

If the medium has something important to say, if it is going to be taken seriously, it has to ask questions like this one that literature and film have been asking for years and years.

I'd just really rather they tackle a subject other than 'what kind of sad nerd are you for playing power fantasy video games?'

 

[ErikB]

antitrop, stop making me want to play this game again you dog. I don't have the time for it.

I am genuinely not certain the writer would have much respect for you if you want to play it more than once. I mean, do you just like him shouting at you, or something?

 

[jim-jam bongs]

I'd just really rather they tackle a subject other than 'what kind of sad nerd are you for playing power fantasy video games?'

if that's all you took away from it then I'm starting to understand the real issue

 

[volpone]

My last playthrough was 2 hours and 58 minutes on Easy. Your excuse holds no water.

See this is probably the greatest thing about the game's story. Its loaded full of rich dialogue and images and yet at no point does it feel like it's wasting the player's time or overstaying its welcome. The narrative is economical as. Take notes Kojima.

"A great man called William Shakesman once said 'Brevity is the soul of wit'. It means don't waste my time. YOU KEEP IT NICE AND SIMPLE."

 

[ErikB]

if that's all you took away from it then I'm starting to understand the real issue

I would submit that if you didn't take that away from it, you were not paying attention.

 

[Parham]

ErikB, you should really finish Spec Ops. You can't genuinely talk about the game's themes without playing it from beginning to end. This is coming from someone who did not like Spec Ops at all.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Erik what was your favourite part of the game?

 

[Johnny Cage In The Shower]

antitrop, stop making me want to play this game again you dog. I don't have the time for it.

Honestly, I don't care if antitorp hates me for saying this, but it really isn't a great game to play or even experience, if you like playing shooters, and have the time do so... hen go ahead.... But seriously, this is one of those games that's better to discuss about than actually playing. But I guess it's worth to play the game if you really want to discuss it

So my argument is invalid, do whatever you gotta do, but you may find the game a bit long (I know it's technically a short game but it feels long) underwhelming, and tedious and your expectations might not be met...

Yeah just play it on super easy then, and focus more on story elements and cut scenes than anything else.

 

[saveweyard]

I'd just really rather they tackle a subject other than 'what kind of sad nerd are you for playing power fantasy video games?'

It seems I should have heeded the warnings as that it is clearly not the message of the game.

In fact, there is a Gamespot podcast out there somewhere with the lead writer on it giving his take on the story. Maybe take a listen?

 

[jim-jam bongs]

I would submit that if you didn't take that away from it, you were not paying attention.

submitted and rejected.

note that I said "all" you took away from it. my point was that you seem to have taken the game very personally and are basically operating under the assumption that the game was attempting to insult you rather than make you think. when you say things like "oh the game wants me to think about what a piece of shit I am" I am left thinking you have such a narrow sphere through which you comprehend the universe that it's actually pitiable.

 

[antitrop]

Honestly, I don't care if antitorp hates me for saying this, but it really isn't a great game to play or even experience, if you like playing shooters, and have the time do so... hen go ahead.... But seriously, this is one of those games that's better to discuss about than actually playing. But I guess it's worth to play the game if you really want to discuss it

So my argument is invalid, do whatever you gotta do, but you may find the game a bit long (I know it's technically a short game but it feels long) underwhelming, and tedious and your expectations might not be met...

Yeah just play it on super easy then, and focus more on story elements and cut scenes than anything else.

I think Spec Ops is one of the rare games that I've liked as much as I have, but am still willing to accept other opinions of why they did not share my experiences.

I feel like Spec Ops is a game that is sort of special to me, but I will not just fly off the handle and start shit like "I don't even know how you can say something like that, you're a complete idiot for not getting it! What's wrong with you?" like I may for some of my other favorite games.

As much as I love this game, there really is quite a bit to base a dislike of it from. I understand that.

 

[RionaaM]

"He turned us into fucking killers!"

Great game, so glad to have finally played it 2 weeks ago. It has a strong, powerful message, even though the gameplay isn't anything special. The voice acting was superb, and the writing too: you can see Captain Walker going into a downwards spiral, until he breaks down in the end. And not only see it, but play through it.

Still, I would have liked a little bit of more choice, like in the white phosphorous scene. The game should allow me to go down and fight the enemies using my guns, but make it extremely hard (if not impossible) to succeed, so I end up giving up and choosing to use the phosphorous instead of being forced to.

 

[antitrop]

"He turned us into fucking killers!"

This might be my favorite game screenshot of the entire year. The looks on Walker's face...

Still, I would have liked a little bit of more choice, like in the white phosphorous scene. The game should allow me to go down and fight the enemies using my guns, but make it extremely hard (if not impossible) to succeed, so I end up giving up and choosing to use the phosphorous instead of being forced to.

You know that EXACTLY what you just said is actually in the game? You just didn't even try.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

I think I'm one of the few people in the world who actually enjoyed playing the game :lol

Yes, even the gunplay.

 

[ErikB]

submitted and rejected.

note that I said "all" you took away from it. my point was that you seem to have taken the game very personally and are basically operating under the assumption that the game was attempting to insult you rather than make you think. when you say things like "oh the game wants me to think about what a piece of shit I am" I am left thinking you have such a narrow sphere through which you comprehend the universe that it's actually pitiable.

Well, if I end up playing a driving game that pointedly comments that I have chosen to pretend to drive a Ferrari instead of really driving the real Renault Kangoo that I can afford, I will not be pleased.

I know that, thank you, and I would rather you didn't rub my face in it.

 

[antitrop]

The way the game gives you an "adrenaline rush" slowdown for a second or two when you pull off a headshot is extremely well done, even for how simple it is.

I think the effects of what being engaged in a firefight does to your senses is almost impossible to pull off in a video game (I can't even describe it in words), so at least the effort is appreciated.

 

[Refreshment.01]

People praise this game every week but Kane and Lynch 2 gets nothing. Maybe I'm just the only person who finds this so attached to its source material and desire to feel bad to the point where it's a parody of the intended message.

Well for whatever is worth, i was thinking in Dog Days when i was talking about other games having more disturbing imagery than this one. Have friends that played both games and the torture scene from Dog Days really disturbed them. The game is suprebly acomplished style wise also.

 

[Johnny Cage In The Shower]

I think Spec Ops is one of the rare games that I've liked as much as I have, but am still willing to accept other opinions of why they did not share my experiences.

I feel like Spec Ops is a game that is sort of special to me, but I will not just fly off the handle and start shit like "I don't even know how you can say something like that, you're a complete idiot for not getting it! What's wrong with you?" like I may for some of my other favorite games.

As much as I love this game, there really is quite a bit to base a dislike of it from. I understand that.

I don't dislike the game at all, I consider it an "Important game" not many games (very few indeed) get that kind of feeling from me.

I genuinely felt like shit at the very end of the game, not a the ending, I mean after the credits rolled and after I turned off the game, I was like "Maaaan...was this just a huge waste of a Sunday for me? Maybe I should've played more Dishonored instead..."


I felt uncomfortable for playing and FINISHING a game and yet still feel a bit "dirty" about it, very much like going to the strip club with friends and promising yourself that you wont waste a cent on a lap dance/ on strippers... But 2 hours, $160 dollars and an itchy crotch later, you are walking out of that strip club, saying... "What the fuck just happened? Where did I go wrong?"

I usually feel great about finishing games especially while having a huge backlog, but for some reason I felt angry after finishing this game... It took me almost a full day to realize, I wasn't angry for playing the game, but my anger was genuinely coming from the narration of the game... which is in a nutshell...

"You think you are a hero, saving people, but in fact you are a monster that is leaving dead bodies behind and destroying everything that is/was good and pure, including yourself.. The End." This may sound a bit oversimplified, but this is exactly the shitty feeling the game injects in you before leaving you high and dry at the end...

So yes, it is an important game, a very ideal one at demonstrating the impact of interactive video games on the emotions of its player...

 

[dskillzhtown]

I think I'm one of the few people in the world who actually enjoyed playing the game :lol

Yes, even the gunplay.

No, the game has alot of fans. I do wish more people would have given it a chance.

 

[RionaaM]

This might be my favorite game screenshot of the entire year. The looks on Walker's face...

You know that EXACTLY what you just said is actually in the game? You just didn't even try.

Hearing Lugo saying that was one of the best moments of the game. Really touching stuff, kudos to Yager.

What do you mean when you say that option was in the game? I tried shooting the bad guys but they kept respawning, and it didn't let me go down the rope until I used the phosporous. Was the any other way?

 

[antitrop]

What do you mean when you say that option was in the game? I tried shooting the bad guys but they kept respawning, and it didn't let me go down the rope until I used the phosporous. Was the any other way?

Well, it's impossible to resolve the situation with small arms fire, but you can sure as hell try. Until you see enough Game Over screens to realize that you need some bigger firepower.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLzqQupzzmA

They got a fuckin DJ.

 

[golem]

Still, I would have liked a little bit of more choice, like in the white phosphorous scene. The game should allow me to go down and fight the enemies using my guns, but make it extremely hard (if not impossible) to succeed, so I end up giving up and choosing to use the phosphorous instead of being forced to.

Actually I like the game's commentary on "player agency" maybe more than its commentary on shootbang stories. For most of the game it presents you a series of false choices which usually end in the same result, but these make the player feel better about what has happened because they were able to pick the more noble path to follow. Examples of this include the two people hanging from the sign. You can choose the harder route of taking out the snipers instead of choosing which to shoot, but in the end it doesnt really matter in the game. The game world/story does not revolve around your choices. It only matters for the player. When it does finally present to you story points where the only choice is the reprehensible one, it might make you think a little about why you did it instead of just failing the game and the mission. You did it to see the story through- as the writer intended. You could have turned off the console, but you didn't. Just like Walker could have abandoned the mission, but he didn't- he saw it through.

 

[dancrane212]

Great game. Especially loved the

Spoiler

"I did this before"

line of dialogue on the helicopter turret sequence the second time over.

Definitely give gamespot's spoilercast a listen, they have a fascinating conversation with the lead writer of the game.

Spoiler

The rationalisation for that spoilered line makes the game's story far more interesting than I had thought.

http://www.gamespot.com/features/ga...dition-spoilercast-spec-ops-the-line-6386587/

 

[ErikB]

"You think you are a hero, saving people, but in fact you are a monster that is leaving dead bodies behind and destroying everything that is/was good and pure, including yourself.. The End."

Or are you sitting around wanting to play a power fantasy video game to make yourself feel like a big man, and are then feeling silly when the game points this out to you?

 

[RionaaM]

Well, it's impossible to resolve the situation with small arms fire, but you can sure as hell try. Until you see enough Game Over screens to realize that you need some bigger firepower.

Yeah, I would surely have tried again if the non-interactive rope hadn't been there. After trying in vain to rappel down several times, I realised the game wanted me to proceed in a very specific way. That's why I feel it should have let me go down, so I could believe I had a choice, and then kick my ass so hard that I would decide to voluntarily use the phosphorous.

Anyway, I'm probably just nitpicking. It's just that it would have made it even better, in my opinion.

 

[antitrop]

Here's a little gameplay snippet from my stream of the game a few days ago, about 5 minutes long:

http://www.twitch.tv/antitrop/c/1788883

People are harsh on the gameplay, but I still think it's good.

The notable thing to take away from this clip is the squad dialogue. Spec Ops does it better than almost every other game out there. I fucking love the way they talk to each other, brings me back. The soundtrack is one of the best of the year and one of the most underrated aspects of the game.

 

[Johnny Cage In The Shower]

Or are you sitting around wanting to play a power fantasy video game to make yourself feel like a big man, and are then feeling silly when the game points this out to you?

Honestly I don't play games to feel like a "big man" ... I play them to be entertained and enjoy myself, I've played games long enough to know that it's simply a medium to entertain me, and at rare times teach me something new, very much like (fantasy) movies.

I don't judge the entertainment by its medium.

 

[Randdalf]

Did this game get nominated for any end of year story awards so far?

 

[CHEEZMO™]

If you play vidyagaems to feel good about yourself then it's probably time for some introspection.

 

[ErikB]

brings me back.

You were in Delta?

 

[antitrop]

You were in Delta?

By time I got into Delta the war would have already been over.

Also I was in the Marines, so going Delta Force would have been... a completely different branch of service.

 

[ErikB]

By time I got into Delta the war would have already been over.

So what action did you see?

And have you been to university?

Or are you just trying to relive the glory days?

(The theme here should be, never ask a man why he plays video games)

 

[antitrop]

So what action did you see?

And have you been to university?

Or are you just trying to relive the glory days?

I saw some action, trust me. I'm also currently attending college on the GI Bill.
And calling them the "glory days" is hilarious. There was no glory, just death.

My point about the dialogue in Spec Ops is that it is far more authentic and "real" when the shit goes down, while other military shooters get embarrassingly cliche. Spec Ops nails it, actually.

 

[ErikB]

And calling them the "glory days" is hilarious. There was no glory, just death.

And yet you bring it up...

How many people would you say you killed. Roughly?

 

[Jintor]

I don't dislike the game at all, I consider it an "Important game" not many games (very few indeed) get that kind of feeling from me.

I genuinely felt like shit at the very end of the game, not a the ending, I mean after the credits rolled and after I turned off the game, I was like "Maaaan...was this just a huge waste of a Sunday for me? Maybe I should've played more Dishonored instead..."


I felt uncomfortable for playing and FINISHING a game and yet still feel a bit "dirty" about it, very much like going to the strip club with friends and promising yourself that you wont waste a cent on a lap dance/ on strippers... But 2 hours, $160 dollars and an itchy crotch later, you are walking out of that strip club, saying... "What the fuck just happened? Where did I go wrong?"

I usually feel great about finishing games especially while having a huge backlog, but for some reason I felt angry after finishing this game... It took me almost a full day to realize, I wasn't angry for playing the game, but my anger was genuinely coming from the narration of the game... which is in a nutshell...

"You think you are a hero, saving people, but in fact you are a monster that is leaving dead bodies behind and destroying everything that is/was good and pure, including yourself.. The End." This may sound a bit oversimplified, but this is exactly the shitty feeling the game injects in you before leaving you high and dry at the end...

So yes, it is an important game, a very ideal one at demonstrating the impact of interactive video games on the emotions of its player...

See, that's powerful stuff to me. I appreciate that it's not for everybody (Erik here being a prime example even not actually having played the game) but the idea of the power of a game, to me, is the ability to ellicit emotional reactions from a player

Erik you're treading real close to just being out and out insulting. Knock it off.

 

[antitrop]

And yet you bring it up...

How many people would you say you killed. Roughly?

Talk to me again when you're mature enough for me to tell you.

I don't tell war stories to children.

 

[Kingbrave]

Started and beat this game today due to this thread. It was okay.