Karak
Member
Not a problem at all. Its a great question and something VERY feasible and exciting really.
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vg247-PS4: new kits shipping now, AMD A10 used as base, final version next summer
- Thread starter Globox_82
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Not a problem at all. Its a great question and something VERY feasible and exciting really.
Do you see Sony or Microsoft imposing some kind of minimum resolution requirement next gen? I don't think 640p is going to fly anymore.
Karak
Member
Internally they will have a 720p requirement. That will be broken though.
Can Crusher
Banned
No way. Come on, if under 720p passes through certification then that's just some ghetto shit for next gen.
Karak
Member
You bet it will happen. Count on it.
Someone will push their game farther than it should be pushed.
Can Crusher
Banned
First guys to do it will look like clowns man.
Karak
Member
Lets just break it down though. If they are below 720p for some reason like throwing a ton of effects. Only pixal counters will have that issue and the normal game players won't even notice.
Can Crusher
Banned
720p is already low rez. I'm used to gaming at 1080p right now, the difference in image quality is huge.
Karak
Member
I was just answering his question about possibilities. Not arguing the obvious visual difference between 720p and 1080p.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Man i was hoping for 1080p not even at 60fps just 1080p.
If any game goes under 720p next gen i won't be buying it .
Would you be able to really tell gaming with a TV though?
Can Crusher
Banned
I think they will once some games start coming out at 1080p and 720P with AA. Most people have cheap LCD screens that sub 720p game will stick out like a sore thumb compared to the rest. I really hope MS and Sony make sure there are no sub 720P games and encourage 1080p.
Karak
Member
These people are the people who bought the Wii and Wiiu. And despite small jumps in THEIR TV quality. I would not want to hedge my bet on these people noticing some lines of resolution missing when "OH LOOK SPLOSIONS!"
That's just me though.
Ummmmm, some of the most diverse and regularly highly rated 1st party titles in the business? If that's not different enough fore you then how has Nintendo done so well?
Most people don't notice the difference. Ask anyone if COD is running at less than 720p and the vast majority of people will say it isn't.
1080p is not going to happen outside of some indie games.
Hydrogen Bluebird
Member
You can't be serious.
So which console is more powerful,PS4 or 720? is the difference bigger than this gen?
If you guys haven't seen CES's final keynote by Samsung, you should probably check it out..
The foldable displays plus Xbox's new out of the tv gaming looks all kinds of cool... plus there's ARM in there and an 8 core processor albeit for mobiles...
http://hexus.net/tech/news/cpu/50425-samsung-exynos-5-octa-demonstrated-ces/
The foldable displays plus Xbox's new out of the tv gaming looks all kinds of cool... plus there's ARM in there and an 8 core processor albeit for mobiles...
http://hexus.net/tech/news/cpu/50425-samsung-exynos-5-octa-demonstrated-ces/
It's been 8 years. Time to move on.
My prediction would be that the majority of games will run at 1080p30 as standard for the short term. Anyone pushing 60fps on an intense game might run a scaling resolution like Studio Liverpool managed with Wipeout HD, run at 1080p60 98% of the time, but scale the resolution down if it needs to rather than dropping frames.
I have no doubt though that there will be plenty of games running below 1080p30. And I bet no fucks will be given by the wider population.
I want to see all games have a 1080 UI though. No blurry shit, nice sharp UIs please.
Don't call him Shirley.
I'm gonna get both regardless but i'm just curious due to lack of concrete info.
Hydrogen Bluebird
Member
I was going to do it...the avy you have and all.....but no this is jus too easy.
Ashler
Member
Man, you really need to change that avatar. Every time you comment on something I can't help but laugh and immediately associate it to Kaz, it doesn't help the look of that pic either.
It's kind of haunting.
specialguy
Banned
its far more likely to be 1080p. but i expct some titles will fudge 1080p just like 720p this gen. but the baseline will be much higher=good.
specialguy
Banned
too early to say and it depends if all these leaked specs are real.
on paper the ps4 looks a little more powerful (50% more GPU flops) but the Durango will have more RAM (but is it fast enough to be useful??)
And we still need to determine what customizations durango has. My guess is they wont be that great. But lets say they can make the GPU more like a 1.5 TF one and narrow the gap? 1.5 TF+8GB might be >1.8 TF and 4GB.
dead monkey uk
Member
You will be in for a nice surprise, I am sure most releases will be in 1080P. If the Specs listed are true, 1080P is very achievable.
I would not bet against some indie games (geometry wars 3 etc) being able to do 4K.
Hydrogen Bluebird
Member
For next-gen games, I think I'd prefer frame rate over resolution. The graphics would most probably be an improvement over current-gen games anyway (and games will look better as the gen progresses).
I'd like developers to focus on having their games run at a high/consistent frame-rate.
I'd like developers to focus on having their games run at a high/consistent frame-rate.
specialguy
Banned
I'd venture 1080P is a virtual given actually.
Devs are going to have a ton of power to throw around compared to this gen, even with these "weaksauce" next gen specs. Some of it will be used jumping to 1080.
For example the rumored Durango GPU is 5x current gen and rumored Orbis GPU 7x. Thats in raw flops, in real terms with efficiency gains I'd say more like 8X+ for both.
So yeah, they'll throw some of that power at 1080p, and still have plenty left over. It's one of the most obvious visual improvements they can make as well as a great marketing bullet point for next gen too.
Plus besides that, for whatever it's worth the notorious DaE tweeted some time back that Durango kits had changed to mandating 1080P.
And hell if the PS4 specs are real with 192 GB/s GDDR5, that's a machine literally built for 1080P and nothing else. If those PS4 specs are real there is NO WAY it wont be 1080p based.
Devs are going to have a ton of power to throw around compared to this gen, even with these "weaksauce" next gen specs. Some of it will be used jumping to 1080.
For example the rumored Durango GPU is 5x current gen and rumored Orbis GPU 7x. Thats in raw flops, in real terms with efficiency gains I'd say more like 8X+ for both.
So yeah, they'll throw some of that power at 1080p, and still have plenty left over. It's one of the most obvious visual improvements they can make as well as a great marketing bullet point for next gen too.
Plus besides that, for whatever it's worth the notorious DaE tweeted some time back that Durango kits had changed to mandating 1080P.
And hell if the PS4 specs are real with 192 GB/s GDDR5, that's a machine literally built for 1080P and nothing else. If those PS4 specs are real there is NO WAY it wont be 1080p based.
so today PS4 is stronger, ok....
I see that people still fail to understand that 1080p is happening.
These days finding a native 720p TV is almost impossible. Not to mention that, when present gen launched with Xbox360 in 2005, widescreen/HDTVs were in their infancy (market wise) and that your average HDTV in that time was not as big or sharp as it is today.
Years ago I bought my 32" LG LCD for more than $700. For the same price today I can get 46"/1080p LED HDTV with much much better IQ.
The point is that TVs today are much bigger and sharper than they were when present gen started and that 720p would be a horrible decision, specially for Sony that ties their Playstation business with their TV business.
What's the point of bragging with your TV's IQ when your other product (console) can't match it or use such a TV properly?
How do you think native 720p image looks on a big native 1080p TV?
Short answer is: Horrible.
Long answer is: Fucking horrible.
These days finding a native 720p TV is almost impossible. Not to mention that, when present gen launched with Xbox360 in 2005, widescreen/HDTVs were in their infancy (market wise) and that your average HDTV in that time was not as big or sharp as it is today.
Years ago I bought my 32" LG LCD for more than $700. For the same price today I can get 46"/1080p LED HDTV with much much better IQ.
The point is that TVs today are much bigger and sharper than they were when present gen started and that 720p would be a horrible decision, specially for Sony that ties their Playstation business with their TV business.
What's the point of bragging with your TV's IQ when your other product (console) can't match it or use such a TV properly?
How do you think native 720p image looks on a big native 1080p TV?
Short answer is: Horrible.
Long answer is: Fucking horrible.
That's a bit too general - it looks much better on a plasma (though still not perfect, ofc) than on LCD, where anything in non-native res looks like shit...
These days it's all about LED and soon OLED and hopefully CLED. Most people today are buying LCD/LED TVs and it's only a matter of time before plasma is completely out of the market.
Yeah, I've heard it 5 years ago as well and still somehow Panasonic has 30 models of plasma TVs in their offer... In the end it's about personal preference and plasma TVs were always (for me!) producing more natural, 'warm' picture instead of ridiculously sharp and over-colorized one on the LCDs. The difference was especially visible for non-native signal, e.g. SD television or DVDs and I can imagine it's the same for sub-HD games or 720p games on 1080p LCD screen.
But we digress
I too hope 1080p will be a minimum standard for next-gen.Charlie from S|A spotted Radeon 8950 at CES and took a picture of it. According to him cards are delayed to Q2 because of marketing/clearing of inventory. All the testing and manufacturing issues are dealt with long time ago, and cards are already 100% ready.
http://semiaccurate.com/2013/01/16/amd-hd8950-spotted-in-the-wild-and-pictured/#.UPaZVTWoGQ8
They are asking money for full access to articles. ~_~
Now... we need confirmation of 8xxx series in PS4.
http://semiaccurate.com/2013/01/16/amd-hd8950-spotted-in-the-wild-and-pictured/#.UPaZVTWoGQ8
They are asking money for full access to articles. ~_~
Now... we need confirmation of 8xxx series in PS4.
SneakyStephan
Banned
< 720 p (especially with the poor scaling of lcd panels) is not pushing anything.
There is no point putting in more detail if you can't see it behind the awful image quality.
I believe many games are so low res right now simply because of vram restrictions and the gpus in the consoles simply not being powerful enough to properly do dynamic lighting.
beancounters and marketing, shitting on everything good in the world.edit: wow 'subscribe to see the content of the article' I feel so dirty for giving that gnat charlie a click now.
Backfoggen
Banned
Charlie from S|A spotted Radeon 8950 at CES and took a picture of it. According to him cards are delayed to Q2 because of marketing/clearing of inventory. All the testing and manufacturing issues are dealt with long time ago, and cards are already 100% ready.
http://semiaccurate.com/2013/01/16/amd-hd8950-spotted-in-the-wild-and-pictured/#.UPaZVTWoGQ8
They are asking money for full access to articles. ~_~
Now... we need confirmation of 8xxx series in PS4.
Lol $50 to see a pic of a graphics card, that is disgusting.
No one knows..
Just looking at CPU + RAM tells you very little about each box's performance..
PS3 had Cell + 3.2Ghz XDR memory vs PowerPc + 700Mhz GDDR3
At that stage, everyone would have assumed PS3 would wipe the floor with the 360, but they where far more equal then anyone would dare to believe.
Same goes for the spec leaks so far.. no one knows as a 'system' what they fully entail..
Just assume they will be there or there abouts until we get some devs who have benchmarked on final hardware can offer some insight..
As for rendering targets, I think 1080p60 or 1080p30 3D will be the old 720p60 target, so expect 1080p30 as a norm, and even 720p60/30 with some reasonable AA as the lowest denominator.. (IMO of course)..
Anyone doing sub 720p or sub 30fps on that hardware probably need to give up their day jobs..
dr_rus
Member
I bet that most releases will be between 720p and 1080p. And 1080p is achievable even on PS3.
Karak
Member
Oh you bet there is a dev out there that will go less than 720p. Always bet on failure
They will push and not be able to optomize and someone on Beyond3d will count lines. It will happen. Sad but it will.
Allonym
There should be more tampons in gaming
I don't mean to go off topic but I don't think there's another topic as suitable for what I'm about to write as this one but has anyone given thought to potential changes that Sony could make to the Orbis' in comparison to the PS3 that would serve to draw in more potential customers?
I think it'd be an ideal situation if Sony were to include a PS+ voucher, good for a month after activation, with every Orbis purchase. I think it'd be a rewarding way of educating customers on the benefits of PS+. People would learn they'd have access to cloud saves, free games, discounted games, early access to demos and early participation in beta's. As the voucher nears it's expiration, players would receive a notification that the games that were included in the voucher's duration would no longer be accessible unless they renewed their subscription. The subscriptions would range from a 1 month, 3 month, 6 month and year membership, all with increasing savings as the duration increases.
Something else that'd be a nice addition is that in tandem with their Day 1 Digital Release, which is a smart initiative, is that they offer the ability to actually download a pre-ordered game to your console before the day of release. It'd be reminiscent of Steam in this sense and it would sit in your game collection queue but would only activate at 12:01am of the day of it's release(dependent on a user's timezone). This would eliminate many having to wait until the PSN store updated to download and also save those who have slower internet connections and speeds from long, tedious downloads. Also since games are being digitally downloaded, it'd be in Sony's best interest and a customer's benefit if they actually offered marginal discounts on downloaded materials as well since they aren't paying for store shelf space and there is no physical product. Maybe like a $10 off. This would be a good way to push more users into the download realm and serve to make them more profits.
The store should become more intuitive and user friendly, while maintaining a swift operation speed. This new PSN store is extremely slow, I clocked it's initial boot-up speed and I timed it at 34 seconds, which is a long time to stare idly at a black screen. I'm by no means technician but maybe they could load the initial page of the store and the page a user accesses and load the other sections of the store as the user views the page they're on. The storefront should also resemble the actual OS home screen, this way there isn't any confusion with new users on how to navigate the store. Uniformity could go a long way for helping Sony out. I would like to see content that's available on one territories PSN be available on them all but I've been told their are extenuating circumstances that prevent this from happening. Ah well, guess we'll have to buy JPN and EUR PSN cards from Playasia until a real solution can be made
PS3 has proven to be a good home of many quality dd only titles but I've noticed XBLA has some gems of their own. I'd really like to see Dust; An Elysian Tale on PSN, Limbo should have been released simultaneously and Shadow Complex never made it over. I'd just like to see a larger indie dev presence but don't mistake this for complaining, I know there's The Unfinished Swan, Flow, Flower, Fat Princess and Journey all on PSN.
Also finally, this may prove to be impossible but I'd like to see the full range of PS1 and PS2 games on the PS4. I'm certain we'll have PS3 backwards compatibility so I won't address that. I think alot of gamers would like to reconnect with their childhood and so not every game will receive an HD collection release so this seems like a cheap way to make some more money for Sony and satisfy nostalgic fans.
Sorry for the long post but these were just some things that I was thinking that'd be good additions to the Orbis
I think it'd be an ideal situation if Sony were to include a PS+ voucher, good for a month after activation, with every Orbis purchase. I think it'd be a rewarding way of educating customers on the benefits of PS+. People would learn they'd have access to cloud saves, free games, discounted games, early access to demos and early participation in beta's. As the voucher nears it's expiration, players would receive a notification that the games that were included in the voucher's duration would no longer be accessible unless they renewed their subscription. The subscriptions would range from a 1 month, 3 month, 6 month and year membership, all with increasing savings as the duration increases.
Something else that'd be a nice addition is that in tandem with their Day 1 Digital Release, which is a smart initiative, is that they offer the ability to actually download a pre-ordered game to your console before the day of release. It'd be reminiscent of Steam in this sense and it would sit in your game collection queue but would only activate at 12:01am of the day of it's release(dependent on a user's timezone). This would eliminate many having to wait until the PSN store updated to download and also save those who have slower internet connections and speeds from long, tedious downloads. Also since games are being digitally downloaded, it'd be in Sony's best interest and a customer's benefit if they actually offered marginal discounts on downloaded materials as well since they aren't paying for store shelf space and there is no physical product. Maybe like a $10 off. This would be a good way to push more users into the download realm and serve to make them more profits.
The store should become more intuitive and user friendly, while maintaining a swift operation speed. This new PSN store is extremely slow, I clocked it's initial boot-up speed and I timed it at 34 seconds, which is a long time to stare idly at a black screen. I'm by no means technician but maybe they could load the initial page of the store and the page a user accesses and load the other sections of the store as the user views the page they're on. The storefront should also resemble the actual OS home screen, this way there isn't any confusion with new users on how to navigate the store. Uniformity could go a long way for helping Sony out. I would like to see content that's available on one territories PSN be available on them all but I've been told their are extenuating circumstances that prevent this from happening. Ah well, guess we'll have to buy JPN and EUR PSN cards from Playasia until a real solution can be made
PS3 has proven to be a good home of many quality dd only titles but I've noticed XBLA has some gems of their own. I'd really like to see Dust; An Elysian Tale on PSN, Limbo should have been released simultaneously and Shadow Complex never made it over. I'd just like to see a larger indie dev presence but don't mistake this for complaining, I know there's The Unfinished Swan, Flow, Flower, Fat Princess and Journey all on PSN.
Also finally, this may prove to be impossible but I'd like to see the full range of PS1 and PS2 games on the PS4. I'm certain we'll have PS3 backwards compatibility so I won't address that. I think alot of gamers would like to reconnect with their childhood and so not every game will receive an HD collection release so this seems like a cheap way to make some more money for Sony and satisfy nostalgic fans.
Sorry for the long post but these were just some things that I was thinking that'd be good additions to the Orbis
On the topic of resolution, I'm highly confident that with the rumored specs that 1080p will be even more common than 720p was this gen. Even general consumers know that 1080p means something on terms of quality (Full HD) so it works from a marketing standpoint. It also has a lot of benefits in gameplay. Carmack is excited about 1080p on consoles because it'll bring back high pixel accuracy, it'll cut down on scaling which adds input lag, and HUDs can be smaller. 720p TVs are essentially done, aside from a few super low end sets so targetting it doesn't make much sense. A lot of effects that you would be able to add in a 720p game would go to waste because of the lower resolution. The jump to 1080p is smaller than the jump to 720p was this gen and hardware has been designed to target it for years now.
I would be willing to bet otherwise. I mean... that would be absurd.Oh you bet there is a dev out there that will go less than 720p. Always bet on failure
Karak
Member
Absurd happens all the time. I bet on someone making shit, at least a couple times, with these new systems.
But also remember I am not saying its NOT absurd. I agree 100%.
It will be our duty, yours and mine, to destroy them with this occurs