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[Karak]

Haha, some of the posts in this thread did crack me up.

Also I read that someone wanted to punch me in my face? I think it was Karak, what for?

The hell?

EDIT:
Man you just made me look! Damn you.
No it wasn't you. It was my contact. If he had messed with me I was going to punch him in his damn face. I just mentioned your rumour in the same post. I sort of wrote all that in a stream of consciousness from my notes.

Sorry no punch headed your way

 

[i-Lo]

I thought both PS4, along with XB3 would utilize Sea Island GPU derivative for graphics solution. This talk about GCN vs GCN 2(XB3) produces the possibility of Sony opting for older hardware. Interesting choice if there is less customization than XB3's GPU.

Btw, is there any amount of significant difference between DX11 and 11.1?

The hell?

Yea, why you be punching a face like a persian cat's anyway? It looks like it's already hit a wall somewhere...

 

[sweetvar26]

The hell?

EDIT:
Man you just made me look! Damn you.
No it wasn't you. It was my contact. If he had messed with me I was going to punch him in his damn face. I just mentioned your rumour in the same post. I sort of wrote all that in a stream of consciousness from my notes.

Sorry no punch headed your way

Haha alright. I don't really care either, I just wanted to know what's it for.

Thanks for clearing it up either way.

 

[Death Dealer]

Didn't SuperDEA or whatever post that he had beta kits? That's pretty final; I would expect those to have finalized chips in them.

SONY's "beta" version kits are expected to go out this month, we haven't heard any updates.

One rumor said PS4 final silicon SDK wouldn't be in developer hands until this summer.

 

[nasos_333]

How do we know Orbis isn't getting GCN2?

Dev kits apparently don't even have the final chip, but an APU + discrete GPU (eventually combined into one)

All that in an APU, i am not sure it can happen

 

[Proelite]

Interesting choice if there is less customization than XB3's GPU.

Orbis gpu will be heavily customized.

Sony started early so they probably had to use GCN GPUs as the base.

 

[Death Dealer]

This talk about GCN vs GCN 2(XB3) produces the possibility of Sony opting for older hardware. Interesting choice if there is less customization than XB3's GPU.

If true, there is probably a technical reason other than Sony "being cheap".

In fact, I think I remember reading a thread on B3D that discussed GCN vs GCN2 and there was one thing GCN was actually better it, because GCN2 was going in a different direction, something to do with GPGPU I think. But all of the rumor also seem to say Xbox is a more one off design, and PS3 is closer to PC parts.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Orbis gpu will be heavily customized.

Sony started early so they probably had to use GCN GPUs as the base.

Proelite this make no sense IMO
Because Sony start early they had to use GCN but MS using GCN2 and they supposedly start working with AMD before Sony did .
Unless your saying that MS waited longer and went with GCN2 .
Either way i would think any tech that AMD had up coming both Sony and MS would have access to if they were willing to pay for it or wanted it .

 

[Proelite]

Proelite this make no sense IMO
Because Sony start early they had to use GCN but MS using GCN2 and they supposedly start working with AMD before even Sony .
Unless your saying that MS waited longer and went with GCN2 .

MS started after Sony. Even Sweetvar26 posts says as much.

Sony was earlier by at least six month.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

MS started after Sony. Even Sweetvar26posts says as much.

Sony was earlier by at least six month.

Even so that is more than enough time to change stuff in a system that coming out in Q3 or Q4 2013 with rumors saying it might be delay until 2014
Sweetvar26 info some of it from 2010 that 2 plus years of time before they go final.
Maybe we should post Sweetvar26 post since so many want to use it to make judgement on things i can find some but not all from that time.
If it okay with him and mods ?

 

[Elios83]

MS started after Sony. Even Sweetvar26 posts says as much.

Sony was earlier by at least six month.

That still doesn't make sense, if an architecture is ready and available for one it is the same for the other.
Even if they started with something older, since there is the possibility they must have already updated their design. These are basic building blocks, not special customizations which can't be changed easily.

 

[CLEEK]

That still doesn't make sense, if an architecture is ready and available for one it is the same for the other.

Rumours have said that the PS4 has been delayed by 6+ months. When they locked down the design with AMD, the time frames might have meant that GCN2 wasn't a viable option. Bare in mind that manufacturing of components starts many months in advance of hardware launch. If Sony had originally planned for a mid 2013 launch, the chips would have to have been final mid last year.

 

[sweetvar26]

If it okay with him and mods ?

I don't think the mods ever had anything to do with this. I had to message them to take down my posts. So it wouldn't be wise to post them back.

I'm not supposed to be talking about this but whatever... It is not like I'm saying or giving information now.

 

[Can Crusher]

Yeah unless MS and AMD have some sort of deal, I don't quite understand how it makes sense for one to be GCN2 and the other not.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I don't think the mods ever had anything to do with this. I had to message them to take down my posts. So it wouldn't be wise to post them back.

I don't think I'm even supposed to be talking about this but whatever... It is not like I'm saying or giving information now.

I know i don't want to get you into trouble or anyone else it just when people use your post to try and prove a point i feel people should be aware of what there were .

Rumours have said that the PS4 has been delayed by 6+ months. When they locked down the design with AMD, the time frames might have meant that GCN2 wasn't a viable option. Bare in mind that manufacturing of components starts many months in advance of hardware launch. If Sony had originally planned for a mid 2013 launch, the chips would have to have been final mid last year.

It was sweetvar26 friend that said AMD delay Sony by 6 months which in tech would be a big problem depending on contract .
okay lets suppose they did delay them , that would have mean Sony would have been able to send out better form of the dev kit early but we hear nothing about it .
There is no way Sony would have been making PS4 parts in 2012 for a 2013 mid launch , hell they wait till the last moment with PS3 for the blu ray drive .
They system do get build early but not by so much .

 

[pieatorium]

Yeah unless MS and AMD have some sort of deal, I don't quite understand how it makes sense for one to be GCN2 and the other not.

GCN is probably cheaper with more reliable production

 

[Proelite]

GCN is probably cheaper with more reliable production

Or it was available for customization when Sony started in 2010 / 2011, before GCN cards were actually out.

 

[Iacobellis]

Yeah unless MS and AMD have some sort of deal, I don't quite understand how it makes sense for one to be GCN2 and the other not.

Sony is the one rumored to have the GCN chip, right? Maybe they don't want a long delay like the PS3 suffered from.

 

[Allonym]

Yeah unless MS and AMD have some sort of deal, I don't quite understand how it makes sense for one to be GCN2 and the other not.

But if the rumors are true isn't the GCN2 just a rebranding of the GCN? So why wouldn't Sony opt for the GCN when they could get it cheaper all while maintaining strikingly similar performance. If thats really true and coupled with the APU performance wouldn't that mean that Sony made the wiser, more cost effective and technologically viable decision? I'm just speculating and regurgitating what I've read around here and the GCN and GCN2 comparisons.

 

[Elios83]

Rumours have said that the PS4 has been delayed by 6+ months. When they locked down the design with AMD, the time frames might have meant that GCN2 wasn't a viable option. Bare in mind that manufacturing of components starts many months in advance of hardware launch. If Sony had originally planned for a mid 2013 launch, the chips would have to have been final mid last year.

Design necessarily started with GCN for BOTH, it's not like Microsoft started designing their GPU in 2012. Also as I said we're talking about building blocks in a GPU, they aren't major customizations or architectural changes.
There really is no reason for one to be using GCN2 and the other GCN unless it's just a marketing name with little to no impact on actual performance.

 

[artist]

I thought both PS4, along with XB3 would utilize Sea Island GPU derivative for graphics solution. This talk about GCN vs GCN 2(XB3) produces the possibility of Sony opting for older hardware. Interesting choice if there is less customization than XB3's GPU.

GCN2 is just an evolution, so the arch difference is going to be rather small.

 

[Saberus]

I'm sure when these machines premier it will be the glorious battle of the Flops. The word flop will be used more times than I`ve seen gaf the last few days, people will have no idea what a Flop is but it sounds awesome.

 

[Proelite]

Design necessarily started with GCN for BOTH, it's not like Microsoft started designing their GPU in 2012. Also as I said we're talking about building blocks in a GPU, they aren't major customizations or architectural changes.
There really is no reason for one to be using GCN2 and the other GCN unless it's just a marketing name with little to no impact on actual performance.

That much is correct. Nothing in GCN2 can make up for the 50% in total number of compute units that Orbis has.

 

[Can Crusher]

GCN is probably cheaper with more reliable production

That would make sense.

Or it was available for customization when Sony started in 2010 / 2011, before GCN cards were actually out.

There were rumors about a 6 month delay.

Sony is the one rumored to have the GCN chip, right? Maybe they don't want a long delay like the PS3 suffered from.

Ps3 suffered a delay?

That much is correct.

No impact in the performance? Not even efficiency? The hell is it called GCN 2 then.

 

[Allonym]

That much is correct.

Hmmm, so there's no performance increase? Well then its more sensible for Sony to have gone with the GCN as opposed to the GCN2. It's likely had for cheaper, while being in greater quantity and being a tried and tested product. The only bragging rights to be had by having a GCN2 in your console is to say that you have a newer iteration of what is essentially the same product.

 

[Iacobellis]

That would make sense.



There were rumors about a 6 month delay.



Ps3 suffered a delay?

http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/15/commentary/game_over/column_gaming/index.htm

Yes, I very large one at that for highly anticipated hardware. I'd say around six months, with a lot of functionality removed.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

There is no way Sony would have been making PS4 parts in 2012 for a 2013 mid launch , hell they wait till the last moment with PS3 for the blu ray drive .
They system do get build early but not by so much .

Sony didn't "wait" on the bluray drive. It was brand new tech that wasn't even ready for mass production by the time Sony originally wanted to launch the PS3. Same with the cell, sort of. Those were two risky moves, but this time they're getting similar tech from the same company as the competition. No new storage medium either. I think production speed should be fine unless they're packing something not quite ready yet, like ddr4, which most people don't believe to be the case.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

That much is correct.

But then you still list it as plus for Durango over Orbis .....

Sony didn't "wait" on the bluray drive. It was brand new tech that wasn't even ready for mass production by the time Sony originally wanted to launch the PS3. Same with the cell, sort of. Those were two risky moves, but this time they're getting similar tech from the same company as the competition. No new storage medium either. I think production speed should be fine unless they're packing something not quite ready yet, like ddr4, which most people don't believe to be the case.

Wait was the wrong word i should have used force instead .

 

[Can Crusher]

Hmmm, so there's no performance increase? Well then its more sensible for Sony to have gone with the GCN as opposed to the GCN2. It's likely had for cheaper, while being in greater quantity and being a tried and tested product. The only bragging rights to be had by having a GCN2 in your console is to say that you have a newer iteration of what is essentially the same product.

Of course, MS is just stupid and Sony is just smart.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/03/15/commentary/game_over/column_gaming/index.htm

Yes, I very large one at that for highly anticipated hardware. I'd say around six months, with a lot of functionality removed.

Didn't know about that.

 

[Iacobellis]

Sony didn't "wait" on the bluray drive. It was brand new tech that wasn't even ready for mass production by the time Sony originally wanted to launch the PS3. Same with the cell, sort of. Those were two risky moves, but this time they're getting similar tech from the same company as the competition. No new storage medium either. I think production speed should be fine unless they're packing something not quite ready yet, like ddr4, which most people don't believe to be the case.

I don't know if we will ever see delays because of storage medium ever again. The Blu-Ray technology can be improved upon, but it wouldn't have to be a radically new thing like it was in 2006. After that, I think we will go strictly download, but that won't be for at least another five to ten years.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Ps3 suffered a delay?

Yep PS3 suffered a load of problems from the Blu ray drive to Cell where they want a smaller chip size to launch with .
Parts end up being to expensive etc etc

I don't know if we will ever see delays because of storage medium ever again. The Blu-Ray technology can be improved upon, but it wouldn't have to be a radically new thing like it was in 2006. After that, I think we will go strictly download, but that won't be for at least another five to ten years.

I really do think blu ray going to be the last disc base storage medium it has everything they need for the future .

 

[Allonym]

Of course, MS is just stupid and Sony is just smart.

Sarcasm...? I'm just saying if both the GCN and GCN2 are very comparable and essentially the same with a name change, it was smarter, fincially, quantitatively and technologically to go with that. I'm not tech expert, I'm just forming conclusions from the stuff poste in the thread.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

I don't know if we will ever see delays because of storage medium ever again. The Blu-Ray technology can be improved upon, but it wouldn't have to be a radically new thing like it was in 2006. After that, I think we will go strictly download, but that won't be for at least another five to ten years.

I'd hate to be an exec with one of these companies trying to balance out new tech, cost, release timing, and keeping it all secret. Then on top of that dealing with timing the info release based on your competitor.

But yeah, this gen will see download running alongside retail 1:1. A transitional period before the cloud takes over.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

Of course, MS is just stupid and Sony is just smart.

jesus christ, where did he even say anything like that?
GCN2 will be an improvement over GCN, however, it might not be one that sony is willing to afford or delay their plans. tried technology has better yields and it's probably cheaper. one console can have a gcn gpu higher clocked and another might have a gcn2 gpu with lower clocks to end up with pretty much the same performance overall.

 

[Iacobellis]

If Sony uses a GCN chip and the performance is very comparable to GCN2 rumored to be in the Durango, then the PS3 has taught Sony a hard lesson. If third parties can easily get a good handle on the PS4 hardware (ahem, Treyarch and Bethesda), then having an older chip won't matter as much.

 

[Can Crusher]

Sarcasm...? I'm just saying if both the GCN and GCN2 are very comparable and essentially the same with a name change, it was smarter, fincially, quantitatively and technologically to go with that. I'm not tech expert, I'm just forming conclusions from the stuff poste in the thread.

Why wouldn't the rational conclusion be that there's something in GCN2 that interests MS in the way they were designing the system?

GPGPU performance seem to be one of AMD's focal points with GCN2. Maybe that interests MS?

 

[artist]

GPGPU performance seem to be one of AMD's focal points with GCN2. Maybe that interests MS?

GPGPU is one of the focial points of GCN itself.

Tahiti was AMD's Fermi.

 

[Gorillaz]

If Sony uses a GCN chip and the performance is very comparable to GCN2 rumored to be in the Durango, then the PS3 has taught Sony a hard lesson. If third parties can easily get a good handle on the PS4 hardware (ahem, Treyarch and Bethesda), then having an older chip won't matter as much.

You really think the CoD devs will try their hardest to match other devs next gen? I'm not even excepting that big of a jump from them and I bet they will probably try to talk some slick shit acting like it's a huge jump.

 

[Allonym]

Why wouldn't the rational conclusion be that there's something in GCN2 that interests MS in the way they were designing the system?

GPGPU performance seem to be one of AMD's focal points with GCN2. Maybe that interests MS?

Because I know nothing of GPUGPU or any of that stuff. That's why it wasn't a logical conclusion for me. Lol, I know nothing of this tech talk, I just came here to learn and see what may potentially be in store for Orbis. I didn't even know what GCN/2 meant so I wouldn't pay much attention to my posts in here unless I was answering a question.

 

[Iacobellis]

You really think the CoD devs will try their hardest to match other devs next gen? I'm not even excepting that big of a jump from them and I bet they will probably try to talk some slick shit acting like it's a huge jump.

No, but what I am saying is BO1 had very noticeable frame drops on the PS3 version compared to the 360.

 

[Can Crusher]

jesus christ, where did he even say anything like that?*
GCN2 will be an improvement over GCN, however, it might not be one that sony is willing to afford or delay their plans. tried technology has better yields and it's probably cheaper. one console can have a gcn gpu higher clocked and another might have a gcn2 gpu with lower clocks to end up with pretty much the same performance overall.

Seems like a plausible scenario.

*He said it all over his post man

It's likely had for cheaper, while being in greater quantity and being a tried and tested product. The only bragging rights to be had by having a GCN2 in your console is to say that you have a newer iteration of what is essentially the same product.

Based on this premise, going with GCN2 just sounds like the dumb way to go doesn't it? More expensive, same thing, worse yelds. Seems too dumb to want it.

GPGPU is one of the focial points of GCN itself.

Tahiti was AMD's Fermi.

I've read stuff from AMD saying how GPGPU has a bunch of bottlenecks right now that they need to address for it to take off. Something about HSA too and what not.

 

[Allonym]

You really think the CoD devs will try their hardest to match other devs next gen? I'm not even excepting that big of a jump from them and I bet they will probably try to talk some slick shit acting like it's a huge jump.

I remember people debating what looked better KZ2 or CoDMW1. Although MW1 looked great at the time, it was no KZ2. Still, I think Infinity Ward/Treyarch will craft acceptable/respectable visuals next-gen

 

[Gorillaz]

No, but what I am saying is BO1 had very noticeable frame drops on the PS3 version compared to the 360.

Here is the thing.

Treyarch has never done a good port and never had good netcode

Infinity Ward always outclassed them in that field.

EDIT: both new IW and old/Respawn IW

 

[Iacobellis]

Here is the thing.

Treyarch has never done a good port and never had good netcode

Infinity Ward always outclassed them in that field.

World at War played fine on the PS3, aside from the fuckton of glitches at release.

 

[Gorillaz]

World at War is they best (on a technical) level, due to the fact (imo) that it was the closest to the IW engine.

As the years went on both teams developed their own deeper versions of the Quake 3 engine and it seemed IW From Cod4-MW2-MW3 had a better and smoother experience then what 3arc has right now.

Maybe it gets better next gen.

 

[NBtoaster]

World at War is they best (on a technical) level, due to the fact (imo) that it was the closest to the IW engine.

As the years went on both teams developed their own deeper versions of the Quake 3 engine and it seemed IW From Cod4-MW2-MW3 had a better and smoother experience then what 3arc has right now.

Maybe it gets better next gen.

Even COD3 is bad on PS3, sub 30fps a lot.

 

[systemfehler]

You really shouldn't make posts like these. There are too many unknown variables. In current configurations, ProElite mentioned that either system could be up to 50% more powerful. I am not a programmer, so I have no idea how these things work. However, you need to take some facts in:

1. Orbis is using GCN, Durango is using GCN2
2. Durango was designed to work around bandwith issues and Orbis brute forces those issues.
3. The effect of 4 GB versus 8 GB of RAM. Fast versus slow RAM. What type of engine, etc.

Both should be a massive jump .

On B3D he said that Orbis is using the 8830/8850 with 50% more CUs - those are Hainan cards GCN2 and not some rebranded OEM cards. Furthermore he added that Durango will use 8750/8770 cards which are Bonaire GCN2 models.

But I guess nobody cares since Proelite is just posting various things so nobody gets onto his leaking and insider information...

 

[DBT85]

The sooner we get a proper leak again the better. This is now just going round and round in circles and we are speculating what the iceberg looks like when we can only see the top 10%.

I don't know who knows something and is being cryptic, who doesn't know something at all but is posting like they do, who knows something but is giving out disinformation to cover their tracks blaa blaa blaa.

 

[specialguy]

Let's be fair, both methods are "designed" to work around bandwidth issues, they are just two different philosophies. One is the traditional PC method, the other is a more console like solution.

It's worth noting it seems to me, PS4 is shaping up as the more expensive product.

*If* PS4=4 steamroller cores vs 8 Jag cores Durango, the former is quite a lot more die area (too lazy to look up right this second)

If PS4 is a pitcairn and Durango is cape verde, the former is 230mm and the latter 130. Former almost twice as big.

Durango may feature SRAM (but 32MB/s should be pretty small) and supposed "special sauce".

GDDR5 in PS4 should be handily more expensive. As 256 bit bus GPU if thats the case.

IF MS can get on par performance as PS4 in a product they can sell for $50 or $100 street price less, that's a win too. But that's all just basic conjecture at this point.\

Its also possible PS4 could be more expensive, and just better.

 

[iamshadowlark]

You really shouldn't make posts like these. There are too many unknown variables. In current configurations, ProElite mentioned that either system could be up to 50% more powerful. I am not a programmer, so I have no idea how these things work. However, you need to take some facts in:

1. Orbis is using GCN, Durango is using GCN2
2. Durango was designed to work around bandwith issues and Orbis brute forces those issues.
3. The effect of 4 GB versus 8 GB of RAM. Fast versus slow RAM. What type of engine, etc.

Both should be a massive jump :).

"Facts"?