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[Afrikan]

Although its suppose to have 512mbs of Ram for the OS, in comparison to the 3gbs the Durango is using...

is it possible that Sony could use their Gaikai tech to do stuff the Durango's OS would do? mainly for multiplayer?

I mean the main problem with getting people to use Gaikai is that Sony would need people play online....for multiplayer features, could Sony use Gaikai to make up for the system's own OS?

like say, Video Chat (when paused), on the fly game recording, etc.

 

[TheGreyHulk]

Can someone tell me in laymans terms how much more powerful the Orbis will be than PS3/360 and the WiiU?

A LOT!

that's really all there is too it. it's not even a comparison really. We're looking at 6.5-7x the theoretical compute power alone from the gpu of the 360 to the one rumored to be in the PS4. there are more technical advancements as well that improve efficiency in the modern architectures, much better ram, and just the overall system alone.

there's no true number, but just know it will look a lot better than anything done on the current gen system.

 

[AgentP]

This makes no sense, there is no universal amount of bandwidth , pixel pushing or compute power 'to 1080 p'.
portal 2 will run at 1080p with 8x msaa at 150-200 fps on a gtx 560 ti (bit less powerful than 7970m), crysis 2 dx11 with the texture pack with no AA will barely hit 40 fps.

with 4GB gddr5 and this much bandwidth devs could aim for any resolution and framerate, it just depends on how many operations they plan to do per pixel.

I said nothing about running a specific game or engine at any frame rate, but if you want to target 1080P @ 60fps you are pushing more pixels, simple math. Sony and the developers it works with have a target and they have to design the system towards it.

This gen you had sub-HD games running under 30fps and 1080P games near 60fps. But the target most would agree was 720P 30fps.

 

[Ashes]

In honor for the Studio Liverpool.

When Sweetvar leaked information about Jaguar, he also mentioned code names THEBE, KRYPTOS way before anybody else had jaguar on their brain. And only recently, Jeff found out that those same previously non-existent chips as now existing with HWinfo as AMD chips under the fusion banner. I thought it was pretty definitive, but now we have Liverpool. And eight cores. And underclocked mobile gpus in a SoC config, not APU, even though the article makes it sound like an APU.

 

[Orayn]

Which is Microsoft undoubtedly. But if Sony launches months earlier that might a difference. And, of course, games will be programmed to the lowest common denominator.

Beyond that, I'd think that having slightly less than optimal tools isn't as big of a problem when both systems will have such incredibly similar hardware.

 

[TheDrowningMan]

ps3 vs wii.

No.

 

[Orayn]

Can someone tell me in laymans terms how much more powerful the Orbis will be than PS3/360 and the WiiU?

Some of the more informed people in this thread have reinforcedDurango/Orbis vs. Wii U being comparable to Xbox vs. Dreamcast. Not sure quite where that leaves the 360 and PS3, since the Wii U does exceed them in several ways.

 

[NinjaFridge]

Getting excited!

 

[gofreak]

Although its suppose to have 512mbs of Ram for the OS, in comparison to the 3gbs the Durango is using...

is it possible that Sony could use their Gaikai tech to do stuff the Durango's OS would do? mainly for multiplayer?

I mean the main problem with getting people to use Gaikai is that Sony would need people play online....for multiplayer features, could Sony use Gaikai to make up for the system's own OS?

like say, Video Chat (when paused), on the fly game recording, etc.

Not game recording.

But theoretically some other network-related apps could be put into a cloud session, yes, or be helped by cloud hardware. It's an option I guess if there did turn out to be big-ticket OS features they didn't think about initially that needed more than they reserved for. The economics might be another issue though - maybe this would only work for premium features on a subscription.

This gen, one new thing was how software updates over the network could be used to change and expand systems over time. Next-gen, maybe the idea of cloud resources over the network will help shape and expand systems over time. But not everything can technically fit this model.

 

[sflufan]

While the Sony console appears to have an edge from a purely gaming perspective, we've effectively reached the "one console future."

 

[sinxtanx]

No.

What TheDrowningMan is trying to say is that all consoles will now have programmable shaders, as opposed to last gen, when the Wii didn't.

Programmable shaders are important if you want to port something. Like, at all.


EDIT: I agree with him that params7 is wrong.

Yay! New consoles! I saw an OUYA devkit yesterday.

 

[2San]

PS4 Rumors , APU code named 'Liverpool' Radeon HD 7970 GPU Steamroller CPU 16GB Flash

It's interesting, it's now clear they probably meant the HD7970M. Instead of the HD7970(which is an absolute beast, but is unrealistic for the consoles).

 

[tapedeck]

Im curious, what was jump performance wise from PS2 to PS3?

 

[Eideka]

A GPU comparable in power to a 7970M ? And lower processor cores ?

Meh, I'm disappointed. I expected something closer to 8870.

even an eight-core set-up should be comfortably out-performed by a fast, modern desktop Intel quad-core processor.

"Next-gen" consoles....

 

[sp3000]

Yeah 1080P is probably not in the cards. People underestimate the raw bandwidth requirements that are necessary to push that kind of power.

720p @ 30fps is going to remain the target. Probably with a good amount of AA though, and hopefully some AF too.

 

[shinobi602]

Can someone tell me in laymans terms how much more powerful the Orbis will be than PS3/360 and the WiiU?

PS3/360= You sprinting
PS4/720=Cheetah

 

[something fishy]

Ugh, this reads like a PR statement.

As it is being about something that has yet to arrive or be confirmed and yet speaking in the past tense? It's more fantasy at the moment.

 

[Dave_6]

I can't wait to see GT6 and Forza 5 running on the new consoles :O

 

[coldfoot]

Very interesting that this time the Xbox will have something that's comparable to the SPU's in PS3.

 

[Shikoro]

I like how everyone ignores the customization done to the components.

 

[clutch.as.it.gets.]

It seems Orbis is the gamer's console while MS has other targets as well.

Yep, seems so.

 

[GarthVaderUK]

As it is being about something that has yet to arrive or be confirmed and yet speaking in the past tense? It's more fantasy at the moment.

Fishy!

 

[OminousShadow]

Didn't have internet when the 360 and PS3 were shown for the first time, but now i'm ready!!!

 

[FrankT]

Yeah 1080P is probably not in the cards. People underestimate the raw bandwidth requirements that are necessary to push that kind of power.

720p @ 30fps is going to remain the target. Probably with a good amount of AA though, and hopefully some AF too.

Ughh, that would be total failure. Consider a pass for me for both if that were the case.

I mean I'm expecting 1080p 60fps from one or both. I might settle at 30fps, but not if the other targets 60fps.

 

[2San]

Yeah 1080P is probably not in the cards. People underestimate the raw bandwidth requirements that are necessary to push that kind of power.

720p @ 30fps is going to remain the target. Probably with a good amount of AA though, and hopefully some AF too.

What's the point of pushing all that power, but to hide in 720p graphics? With 3.5 GDDR5 targeting 720p just seems odd to me. I'm really expecting 1080p.

 

[michaelius]

Yeah 1080P is probably not in the cards. People underestimate the raw bandwidth requirements that are necessary to push that kind of power.

720p @ 30fps is going to remain the target. Probably with a good amount of AA though, and hopefully some AF too.

notsureifserious.jpg

My radeon 2900 pro could run Mass Effect 1 at 1080p with 20-30fps and that was in 2008.

 

[PaulLFC]

A GPU comparable in power to a 7970M ? And lower processor cores ?

Meh, I'm disappointed. I expected something closer to 8870.

Hasn't the absolute best case rumour so far been 8850? (rumoured 8830 or 8850)

 

[Tears For Fears]

Wii U = Farmer
Ps4 = Goku
Durango = Vegeta (place holder)

 

[Cronq]

Now that these consoles are x86 pc's , shouldn't that allow pc's to widen the gap even quicker?

 

[grimshawish]

notsureifserious.jpg

My radeon 2900 pro could run Mass Effect 1 at 1080p with 20-30fps and that was in 2008.

They won't be releasing Mass Effect 1 though. Co'mon.

 

[R1CHO]

Yeah 1080P is probably not in the cards. People underestimate the raw bandwidth requirements that are necessary to push that kind of power.

720p @ 30fps is going to remain the target. Probably with a good amount of AA though, and hopefully some AF too.

That is nonsensical man.

 

[Orayn]

While the Sony console appears to have an edge from a purely gaming perspective, we've effectively reached the "one console future."

You've got to wonder just how far we are from consoles being app stores. Yes, yes, I know that exclusives are still a big deal, and that fixed spec makes a huge difference, but the systems are getting so similar that the effort involved in "porting" a multiplatform game to Durango, Orbis, and Windows PC is becoming a lot like releasing a game on several different OSes, rather than platforms with fundamentally different hardware.

Yeah 1080P is probably not in the cards. People underestimate the raw bandwidth requirements that are necessary to push that kind of power.

720p @ 30fps is going to remain the target. Probably with a good amount of AA though, and hopefully some AF too.

30fps yes, 720p no.

 

[PaulLFC]

Yeah 1080P is probably not in the cards. People underestimate the raw bandwidth requirements that are necessary to push that kind of power.

720p @ 30fps is going to remain the target. Probably with a good amount of AA though, and hopefully some AF too.

I seriously doubt that. Some games will do 1080p on consoles now, and these consoles are about 5x more powerful (being conservative).

 

[AgentP]

I had another (obvious?) thought.

MS might be aiming for seamless media playback. Tired of gaming? Pause your game and launch Netflix, the game just sits in the background. Sort of like the Vita when running smaller apps.

Orbis/PS4 can right the game state to flash or HD, sort of a hibernate feature. Then launch the Netflix app. The read/writing of the game state will have a pause, but maybe they can write the game state out and launch Netflix in parallel.

3500MB/20MB/s = 3 min.
3500MB/40MB/s = 1.5 min. etc.

Say Netflix is only a 200MB app, you can essentially launch Netflix as soon as you free up 200MB and write the game out in the background. You would then need to wait the 3 min to be back to where you were. This is certainly faster than loading the game from HD or disc from scratch and loading your save game.

These kind of features could explain design differences. Both are improvements to the current gen.

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

Surely 1080p30 isn't out of the question?

 

[Afrikan]

so I'm no tech expert, but from reading some of this stuff it seems like the graphics comparison will be similar to this gen.

Devs will lead on the Durango....and multiplats will look similar on both consoles (with a few 3rd party devs taking advantage of Orbis's faster ram)

Sony's first party devs will make AMAZING looking games, that take full advantage of Orbis.

Microsoft's multiplat games will have exclusive features because of their OS memory. And Microsoft will advertise this on commercials.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Ooooh can't wait for this and the new microsoft console. These guys are going to be awesome, hopefully perfect set top boxes for the living room

 

[Glorified G]

As it is being about something that has yet to arrive or be confirmed and yet speaking in the past tense? It's more fantasy at the moment.

Fantasy? This article is pretty much parroting rumors that has been going on for months.

 

[TheDrowningMan]

What TheDrowningMan is trying to say is that all consoles will now have programmable shaders, as opposed to last gen, when the Wii didn't.

Programmable shaders are important if you want to port something. Like, at all.


EDIT: I agree with him that params7 is wrong.

Yay! New consoles! I saw an OUYA devkit yesterday.

I almost feel as though some people might be shocked, astonished and appalled if, I don't know, Black Ops 4 turns up on all three systems and doesn't graduate with an honours degree from the 2016 Class of Dead Rising: Chop Till You Drop.

 

[shinobi602]

Surely 1080p30 isn't out of the question?

Of course not.

 

[Psychotext]

Very interesting that this time the Xbox will have something that's comparable to the SPU's in PS3.

Isn't it more akin to having 8x PPE vs the 3x which were in the 360? SPUs were far more limited than these cores seem to be.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

so I'm no tech expert, but from reading some of this stuff it seems like the graphics comparison will be similar to this gen.

Devs will lead on the Durango....and multiplats will look similar on both consoles (with a few 3rd party devs taking advantage of Orbis's faster ram)

Sony's first party devs will make AMAZING looking games, that take full advantage of Orbis.

Microsoft's multiplat games will have exclusive features because of their OS memory. And Microsoft will advertise this on commercials.

I feel the same way.

 

[SneakyStephan]

Jesus.

Remember it is shared by the CPU (though that is a good thing) AND also needs to be used for caching (well caching is a bad word if it doesn't have to be moved) data in advance (something the system ram is normally used for).

In a a regular pc game your ddr3 ram will usually be storing 1-2 GB of data to be moved to the vram when required so it's not exactly the same as having 4GB vram on a pc unless I'm misunderstanding how it works.

 

[TheGreyHulk]

I'm still finding 3.2GHz hard to believe. Aren't AMD's only current CPUs with those kinds of clock speeds nearly 100 watts TDP? It just doesn't make sense to me.

i find it hard to believe as well. bulldozer/piledriver have horrible TDP ratings. i don't vision steamroller doing drastically better either. i really do believe that they couldn't get the steamroller at the level they needed it to be and switched to the new jaguar small cores instead. it just makes more sense from a large APU standpoint to use jaguar with a decent sized gpu for an APU die.

this rumor really does sound very feasible. the 7970M (AKA the 7870 desktop chip) is 212mm^2, these jaguar cores are tiny.. add in that other compute unit they mentioned, cache and you'd have an APU that's at a good size that would be capable of producing that doesn't eat a ton of power.

4gb of GDDR5 doesn't sound too insane either. It's 16 chips @ 256mb, but i bet it'll be 128bit to save on PCB complexity. I'd love 256 bit or even 192bit @ high speed rates, but we'll have to wait & see about that.

i'm really liking this spec. it's reasonable, doesn't look like it'll cost sony an arm and a leg to make, and would raise the bar considerably from the last gen.

if M$ cannot outdo the PS4, i'll be rolling with Sony next gen

 

[Eideka]

Hasn't the absolute best case rumour so far been 8850? (rumoured 8830 or 8850)

8850 is not even high-end of 2013 (8950-8970)...

I know this was unrealistic, I'm just a little bit gutted by those specs. The software will look good I suppose but I expected sooo much more specs wise.

At least things will good on the PC side. -

 

[coldfoot]

3500MB/20MB/s = 3 min. Say Netflix is only a 200MB app, you can essentially launch Netflix as soon as you free up 200MB and write the game out in the background. You would then need to wait the 3 min to be back to where you were. This is certainly faster than loading the game from HD or disc from scratch and loading your save game.

This makes no sense. If you only need to free up 200MB for Netflix, why would you have load back up 3.5 GB? Also, if they're smart with a SSD cache, the speeds would be much faster. It would only need a few seconds to empty 200MB, and then to refill it again when you want to get back in the game.

 

[Orayn]

Surely 1080p30 isn't out of the question?

We'll get some sub-1080 games (hopefully at 60fps) and a handful of games at 4k, but I can very easily see 1080p30 being the main target.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

A GPU comparable in power to a 7970M ? And lower processor cores ?

Meh, I'm disappointed. I expected something closer to 8870.

nvm, you're talking about the desktop part.

 

[Lambda Pie]

with these specs 1080p is a lock for most games, i mean, let's get serious.

 

[JonathanPower]

What's the point of pushing all that power, but to hide in 720p graphics? With 3.5 GDDR5 targeting 720p just seems odd to me. I'm really expecting 1080p.

Well, DDR5 is very expensive, and I am still not convinced that SONY is willing to waste 521MB of such expensive ram for the OS. It may the case that the OS will run on a separate pool of cheap memory and there may also be an ARM processor taking care of OS, I/O and security tasks.