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[Ashes]

total power. Epic games mentioned that number. 1.8 is fine I guess.

edit

Last week Epic Games CEO Tim Sweeney told DICE 2012 attendees that the tech demo of Unreal Engine 3 released last year, called "Samaritan," required 2.5 terraFLOPS to run at a 1920 x 1080 resolution, 30 frames per second and with 48 operations per pixel (that rig was a monster in size too). By comparison, Microsoft's Xbox 360 console is only capable of .25 terraFLOPS, meaning Microsoft will need to generate a new console at least ten times more powerful in order to run the UE3 demo smoothly.

O well Samaritan looked cool...

This is funny thing with using peak SP tf - those are 100% achievements (no card ever gets that). A GPU cannot exceed those limits.

So a 2.5 tfp APU won't be able to handle it. In real world circumstances, even 7 years down the line, a 2.5 tf won't hit it's peak. A really efficient one will probably hit 2tf.

However, Samaritan can be optimised and the demo will probably run on lower specs.

Or a 3 tfp gpu (FMA) such as the GTX 680.

If we could find an inxpensive way to cool these chips down, then maybe, value being thrown out the window (as well as any other kind of budget), you could have had a 680
in a console releasing this year.

 

[IcyBlueStrawberry]

Some exciting news, some not so exciting news.

The fact that the OS only uses 512MB of RAM is good, but the 7970m is pretty much a 7770, which is a far cry from the GTX 680s that we saw "next gen" games running on at E3. It's obviously custom silicon, though, so I'm still hyped for what we're going to see a few months from now.

It would be quite interesting if PS4 were significantly more powerful than the next Xbox though.

 

[Clay Davis]

One of the VG247 rumors talked a bit about the UI



VG247

so basically on par with how the 360 is now? the updating when in standby mode is something they've done already with plus. does this mean they are rolling it out to everyone?

I'll be honest, I was expecting, or maybe I should say hoping for a lot more from the os next gen. if nothing else, I wanted game recording. it's standard on pc and has been for years and to be frank, it's bloody annoying that we haven't got it on consoles.

 

[PaulLFC]

I think it's the other way around.
He probably prefers PS3, but envies the cool stuff on Xbox (you know, cross-game invites, party chat, etc).

Don't worry. It will all be there.

His posts have seemed very pro-720 to me so far. Nothing wrong with that, but when he's just tossing out things without backing them up (ie what the 720 will be able to do and Sony "copy", then listing things the PS3/Vita already do) then I had to correct it

 

[Orayn]

The PS3 uses a 7600GT variant right? To be honest, that is pretty weak, even for 2006. I had an 8800GTS back then!

So, how many 'x' is the PS4 more powerful compared with the PS3? I know PS2 > PS3 was touted as '10x'.

PS3 basically uses a 7900GS, which came out in early 2006 and was maybe $200 at the time. The 7600 series were a lot slower.

 

[opticalmace]

SO HYPED.

Take my money already.

 

[Clay Davis]

The PS3 does video chatting and video recording in its current OS footprint. Plenty of games use the former, Just Cause 2 and the PixelJunk games use the latter. The Vita does seamless multitasking too.

that's very limited. I'm talking about proper game recording at an os level. it saves the recording and allows you edit and upload those clips to which ever say they've made agreements with.

I liked the feature in just cause 2, but it was very, very limited and not what I want from an game recording feature.

 

[gofreak]

About Durango's OS...

... is it that crazy to think there'll be software compatibility with Windows 8 or, more likely, Windows 8 RT?

If that's the case they might want enough RAM to have a good RT experience. But moreover, they may be thinking about the fact that this is going to be one of their main boxes in the home for the next 5 years...and may be thinking about windows 9 rt and windows 10 rt app demands over the product's lifecycle.

I don't know, just a thought. Assuming the 3GB thing is correct. Which it might not be, as others are suggesting.

 

[Ryoku]

1920x1200

Sub 800mb. CryEngine 2 as well, which is less optimized.

Max Payne 3 with ALL SETTINGS MAX INCLUDING MSAA 8x


Max Payne 3 with MSAA off


We'll be fine in terms of RAM.

Isn't the memory counter at the top of the screen referring to system memory? Check second picture. Top says 1.7GB, while the VRAM counter says 2GB.

 

[King_Moc]

I think we will still get it, PC graphics have not advanced that much. We don't know what modern hardware is truly capable of and hopefully those consoles will demonstrate that.

The PS3 uses a 7600GT variant right? To be honest, that is pretty weak, even for 2006. I had an 8800GTS back then!

So, how many 'x' is the PS4 more powerful compared with the PS3? I know PS2 > PS3 was touted as '10x'.

Last gen was around 10x iirc. We know the 360 is 0.25TF, so Orbis would be 9x that and Durango around 6x that.

Doesn't necessarliy mean that much in real performance though.

 

[VanWinkle]

so basically on par with how the 360 is now? the updating when in standby mode is something they've done already with plus. does this mean they are rolling it out to everyone?

I'll be honest, I was expecting, or maybe I should say hoping for a lot more from the os next gen. if nothing else, I wanted game recording. it's standard on pc and has been for years and to be frank, it's bloody annoying that we haven't got it on consoles.

What do you mean? They didn't lay out the entire OS. You're acting like we now know everything about it. We know practically nothing but one tidbit about one feature.

 

[velociraptor]

Tbh, I'm glad they're going in that direction. I'm all about the games. I don't care for gimmicky add ons, move, kinect, recording gaming videos, YouTube integration or anything like that. Sonys going after my sort of target market. Focus on the games and amazing looking, technically benchmarking stuff. GDDR5 over DDR3 is foresight on that front. Not saying Microsoft won't be doing that, but it's clear their goals are slightly different. Microsoft probably being more social and media orientated.

The difference in direction is great for the consumer, as we'll have a slight variety in what each platform offers.

To be honest, all I care about is free online. So as long as I can still play games for free, I'll buy the Orbis.

But yes, the fact the PS4 will be a gaming machine is a bonus. I don't need a media player. I can do everything I want using my PC, which is hooked up to my TV.

However, I had truly hoped for a BEAST of a console. Should have slammed an actual AMD 7970 in the PS4!

The 360/PS3 were powerful for their time (although the horrendous graphics are clearly showing their age; 720p simply does not cut it for me anymore. It looks so bad compared to 1080p).

 

[magicaltrevor]

His posts have seemed very pro-720 to me so far. Nothing wrong with that, but when he's just tossing out things without backing them up (ie what the 720 will be able to do and Sony "copy", then listing things the PS3/Vita already do) then I had to correct it

Oh well... didn't read the entire thing.

 

[M.D]

so basically on par with how the 360 is now? the updating when in standby mode is something they've done already with plus. does this mean they are rolling it out to everyone?

I'll be honest, I was expecting, or maybe I should say hoping for a lot more from the os next gen. if nothing else, I wanted game recording. it's standard on pc and has been for years and to be frank, it's bloody annoying that we haven't got it on consoles.

You're talking as if this short quote just laid out the entire feature set of the PS4 OS. We still don't really know anything about it.

 

[clutch.as.it.gets.]

What's the point of pushing all that power, but to hide in 720p graphics? With 3.5 GDDR5 targeting 720p just seems odd to me. I'm really expecting 1080p.

If devs would go with 1080p/30 frames the games would look very similar to 360/Ps3 games.

 

[Can Crusher]

This post is ridiculous.

1. You have no idea how "future proof" the PS4 will be. You have no idea how future proof Durango will be either. Nobody does.
2. PS3 already did the record and upload to Youtube with Just Cause 2. What's that? PS3 features in 720? I know, shocking isn't it?
3. You can already use the browser in the background while gaming on the Vita. Is the 720 copying from the Vita now? That is your logic with this "Sony copying MS" rubbish. See how ridiculous it sounds?

Also, 5 GB > 3 GB... I notice while making this calculation you completely overlooked that the 5GB is DDR3 and the 3GB is GDDR5. It's been stated that the systems from what we know so far will be very comparable, but don't let that get in the way of your blind MS devotion.

Is this shit for real?

Your logic is that the hardware company will offer everything the software company is with 6 times less memory dedicated to it. How is that any better?

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

You guy happy with these specs?

 

[Ashes]

I want to know where ARM fits into all this? If at all. And what are they doing about security? Hardware measures again?

 

[Orayn]

About Durango's OS...

... is it that crazy to think there'll be software compatibility with Windows 8 or, more likely, Windows 8 RT?

If that's the case they might want enough RAM to have a good RT experience. But moreover, they may be thinking about the fact that this is going to be one of their main boxes in the home for the next 5 years...and may be thinking about windows 9 rt and windows 10 rt app demands over the product's lifecycle.

I don't know, just a thought. Assuming the 3GB thing is correct. Which it might not be, as others are suggesting.

I'm expecting a full-featured Metro front-end with Windows Media Center and at least partial access to the App Store.

 

[BruiserBear]

The PS3 uses a 7600GT variant right? To be honest, that is pretty weak, even for 2006. I had an 8800GTS back then!

So, how many 'x' is the PS4 more powerful compared with the PS3? I know PS2 > PS3 was touted as '10x'.

You just asked about the PS4, but now you're talking about the PS3?


As for "X" more powerful, those types of statements are always questionable. It's hard to say. Just watch that link I provided, and know that should be the minimum the console is capable of, and that is pretty damn exciting to consider. A few years down the road, when developers have learned all the tricks, it's going to be capable of some amazing stuff.

 

[Darknight]

So what does this mean for regular joe shmoe? How does it compare to PS3 and to current PCs say with an Intel i5 2500k CPU with a GTX460 v2?

Please some insight of this would be appreciated! Also does the DF info match the leaks/what it was expected of PS4?

 

[Eideka]

If devs would go with 1080p/30 frames the games would look very similar to 360/Ps3 games.

No way....

Come on, those consoles are not "monsters" by any means but full HD is still a given.

 

[androvsky]

Ohhh, I'm sure it can do all the stuff NOW. Like, I have full confidence that we will see 360 features in the PS4. I have no doubt.

Its 3 years down the line that I worry. Sony doesn't seem to be future proofing it.

Like someone said, maybe the 720 will be able to record real gameplay and save it to your HDD to put on youtube.

That's something the PS3 can do with a small memory reservation by devs, it wouldn't take much at all to make it universally available. Except, of course, where devs turn it off (like Vita screenshots).

Maybe you can video conference with 7 other people?

While running a game? That's the one thing I don't think you can do on any of the current consoles in-game.

Maybe you can use skype to game with your friend? Like Picture in picture.

The Vita can take Skype calls in the background, no video overlay but it's not that far off.

Maybe use the internet browser to surf the net while the game is on.

Again, the Vita can do this also, and I'm pretty sure it doesn't have more than 128 MB reserved for background apps.

-Maybe you can hook up your cable somehow to it and watch tv while playing a game.

The PS3 can record TV shows while playing a game, and I think Torne lets a networked blu-ray player pull a recorded TV show off the PS3 while the PS3 is playing a game.

 

[VanWinkle]

Is this s*** for real?

Your logic is that the hardware company will offer everything the software company is with 6 times less memory dedicated to it. How is that any better?

If the underlying OS consumes more RAM, then it will use more RAM and speak nothing of added features. Also, why are you thinking in numbers only? Yes 512mb is 6 times less than 3GB, but DDR3 is multitudes slower than GDDR5.

 

[Aguirre]

You guy happy with these specs?

if its an improvement over what we have currently, then yes! ^^

 

[PaulLFC]

Is this shit for real?

Your logic is that the hardware company will offer everything the software company is with 6 times less memory dedicated to it. How is that any better?

Where on earth did you get that from in my post? I mentioned nothing about either company "offering everything" at all, don't put words into my mouth to suit your point.

 

[madmaxx350]

Things change mang. Sony made a decision sometime later to change the CPU I suppose.

its too bad they had to change, i loved the 4 core steamroller future better, i still think the additional computation block EG is talking about is related to Cell in some form

 

[Can Crusher]

If devs would go with 1080p/30 frames the games would look very similar to 360/Ps3 games.

Doubt it. We are clearly underestimating what these machines will be capable off.

 

[nib95]

So what does this mean for regular joe shmoe? How does it compare to PS3 and to current PCs say with an Intel i5 2500k CPU with a GTX460 v2?

Please some insight of this would be appreciated! Also does the DF info match the leaks/what it was expected of PS4?

Orbis would be much more powerful imo. Bare in mind, I don't think any single GPU on the market current has more than 2gb GDDR5, so Orbis's 4gb is a healthy amount. The cpus might not be quite as benchmarking mind, but it all depends on customisations and specific perks. Secret sauce as Eurogamer put it.

 

[JoshHood]

About Durango's OS...

... is it that crazy to think there'll be software compatibility with Windows 8 or, more likely, Windows 8 RT?

If that's the case they might want enough RAM to have a good RT experience. But moreover, they may be thinking about the fact that this is going to be one of their main boxes in the home for the next 5 years...and may be thinking about windows 9 rt and windows 10 rt app demands over the product's lifecycle.

I don't know, just a thought. Assuming the 3GB thing is correct. Which it might not be, as others are suggesting.

Good shout. Much easier to reduce the requirements when they want to than increase them and break games.

 

[VanWinkle]

total power. Epic games mentioned that number. 1.8 is fine I guess.

edit

O well Samaritan looked cool...

Wait, what? So under that slide, Xbox 360 would need four times more power to run Epic's original Unreal engine in 1024x768 at 30fps? Despite it already running Unreal 3 in 1280x720 at 30fps?

Edit: nevermind, misread that. Carry on, friends.

 

[speedpop]

it's pretty conclusive that neither of these machines are the behemoths required to offer up a satisfactory VR headset experience on anything more visually taxing than a current gen game.

Indeed. Judging by the feverish hoopla from many citizens of GAF I was expecting these machines to be powerhouses. It's somewhat unfortunate to see them being run of the mill, though that is to be accepted when it concerns affordability.

Will be interesting to see where the machines stand in 5 years time and whether Microsoft continues with videogames.

 

[SirIgbyCeaser]

You guy happy with these specs?

They're pretty cool. But as it stands it seems microsoft might have a more software backward compatible machine.

Which is all sony's fault for making exotic hardware, but we all really want those details as well.

I think microsoft will have zero problems with XBLA and 360 games.(No coding to metal, all under directx protocals) Sony has to do something impressive or crazy to offer that. And that's emulate or trick the hardware to work like ps3.

 

[IcyBlueStrawberry]

Orbis would be much more powerful imo. Bare in mind, I don't think any single GPU on the market current has more than 2gb GDDR5, so Orbis's 4gb is a healthy amount. The cpus might not be quite as benchmarking mind, but it all depends on customisations and specific perks. Secret sauce as Eurogamer put it.

The 7970 has 3GB and there are 4GB editions of the GTX 680, but yeah 4GB seems like a decent amount.

 

[Darryl]

You guy happy with these specs?

yes, with these lower specs they might actually be reasonably priced.

 

[IcyBlueStrawberry]

Wait, what? So under that slide, Xbox 360 would need four times more power to run Epic's original Unreal engine in 1024x768 at 30fps? Despite it already running Unreal 3 in 1280x720 at 30fps?

GFLOPS and TFLOPS are different things

 

[androvsky]

About Durango's OS...

... is it that crazy to think there'll be software compatibility with Windows 8 or, more likely, Windows 8 RT?

If that's the case they might want enough RAM to have a good RT experience. But moreover, they may be thinking about the fact that this is going to be one of their main boxes in the home for the next 5 years...and may be thinking about windows 9 rt and windows 10 rt app demands over the product's lifecycle.

I don't know, just a thought. Assuming the 3GB thing is correct. Which it might not be, as others are suggesting.

I don't think you're crazy, I thought that was the general assumption when people talk about reserved memory on the Durango.

 

[Ryoku]

Wait, what? So under that slide, Xbox 360 would need four times more power to run Epic's original Unreal engine in 1024x768 at 30fps? Despite it already running Unreal 3 in 1280x720 at 30fps?

1GFLOPS vs 0.25TFLOPS (250GFLOPS)

 

[SneakyStephan]

that's very limited. I'm talking about proper game recording at an os level. it saves the recording and allows you edit and upload those clips to which ever say they've made agreements with.

I liked the feature in just cause 2, but it was very, very limited and not what I want from an game recording feature.

Youtube already has enough awful gameplay , abuse of search tags and nasal voices talking over said awful gameplay.

Please, no more.

 

[velociraptor]

PS3 basically uses a 7900GS, which came out in early 2006 and was maybe $200 at the time. The 7600 series were a lot slower.

7900GS? That was a fairly decent card for it's time, judging by benchmarks..

Why is Doom 3 so wack on the PS3, if the 7900GS has such impressive framerates on the PC?

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

One of the VG247 rumors talked a bit about the UI

VG247

great

 

[Polari]

Ohhh, I'm sure it can do all the stuff NOW. Like, I have full confidence that we will see 360 features in the PS4. I have no doubt.

Its 3 years down the line that I worry. Sony doesn't seem to be future proofing it.

Like someone said, maybe the 720 will be able to record real gameplay and save it to your HDD to put on youtube.

Maybe you can video conference with 7 other people?

Maybe you can use skype to game with your friend? Like Picture in picture.

Maybe use the internet browser to surf the net while the game is on.

I am positive MS will come up with some cool shit. When it comes to that stuff, they have a leg up on Sony. And with 3gb, there is no way in hell Sony could compete.


edit: more shit

-Maybe you can hook up your cable somehow to it and watch tv while playing a game.

Video conferencing with multiple people would probably be mostly done server side anyway, 360 already does ingame video chat with 512MB of RAM total. Browsers who cares it's hardly a killer feature. Recording gameplay I don't really see how this would require a whole chunk of RAM, even so it could be done at game level anyway.

4GB of GDDR3 is very decent. Make no mistake, this machine is a beast when compared to the current generation. All in all I'm very happy with the reported specs, seems like it will be a pretty powerful piece of kit for the price.

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

yes, with these lower specs they might actually be reasonably priced.

And what price is that, do you think?

 

[Can Crusher]

If the underlying OS consumes more RAM, then it will use more RAM and speak nothing of added features. Also, why are you thinking in numbers only? Yes 512mb is 6 times less than 3GB, but DDR3 and multitudes slower than GDDR5.

If I had to guess, Durango OS will use 8's kernel, but this doesn't mean they are going to put in a PC OS in there. This is still a closed platform, and I'm sure MS doesn't have plans to go ahead and let you install Office in it, or whatever your software is because this isn't a PC.

Regarding amount of ram, so what you are saying is that if I only had 512 MB of GDDr5, windows 8 would run on it, even if it took 3 GB of ddr3 to run?

How does that make sense?

 

[magicaltrevor]

Indeed. Judging by the feverish hoopla from many citizens of GAF I was expecting these machines to be powerhouses. It's somewhat unfortunate to see them being run of the mill, though that is to be accepted when it concerns affordability.

Will be interesting to see where the machines stand in 5 years time and whether Microsoft continues with videogames.

Why on earth would they suddenly stop?

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

EDIT:Nvm. You realized it

 

[SapientWolf]

No way....

Come on, those consoles are not "monsters" by any means but full HD is still a given.

Why is 1080p a given?

Wow, this thread is moving at hyperspeed.

 

[Thoraxes]

So what does this mean for regular joe shmoe? How does it compare to PS3 and to current PCs say with an Intel i5 2500k CPU with a GTX460 v2?

Please some insight of this would be appreciated! Also does the DF info match the leaks/what it was expected of PS4?

If you just play games, they'll be shinier. If you wanna do stuff that you can probably already do with other things, like a computer or smartphone, you can probably end up doing that on a future locked platform if you choose so.

 

[dosh]

The idea of seamlessly going back to my game as soon as I switch my orbis/durango on sounds fantastic. All the more if I can go back and forth from a game to the os the store without having to actually quit any of them. I really want that.

 

[SToRM]

Isn't it possible that the main reason there is such a big difference in OS RAM usage is because MS wants all their devices (XBox, PC, Tablets) to run on the same OS?
This may be interesting for things like integration between the different MS devices, but it probably isn't as optimized as the PS4 OS will be.