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[alexandros]

I'm gonna guess and say you're wrong. UE3 was designed with PC in mind. Epic's engine is the most popular one for big budget multiplatform games. Why would they design another engine with just PC in mind?

Why are you still talking about the gaming industry as if we're still in 2005? Many things have changed since then, Epic could easily come up with a f2p Unreal Tournament 2014 that blows everything else out of the water graphically, consoles are not the only way to make money anymore.

 

[Gorillaz]

Orbis: Asa Akira
Durango: Gianna
Wii U: Ron Jeremy

Reiko said Gianna was Orbis....
Now Gianna is Durango...


Which console will be the "gianna" of next gen?

 

[i-Lo]

Because we were all talking about faster memory (such as GDDR5).
Consoles usually had faster memory than what we were all using as general purpose memory in our PCs.

Up until a few months back, Sony still had 2GB GDDR5.

Yes yes, provisionally maintaining that if densities increase or whatever they'll do more.
There was a lot of internal outcry at that I'm sure, but if you look at the motherboard complexity that 4GB of GDDR5 would introduce, you'll see why that was the case.

That, and the bean counters don't like it much.

As far as MS goes, they're using 8GB of DDR3, which really isn't anything special in of itself. They have 32mb of ESRam on the GPU to mitigate the fact the memory and bandwidth of DDR3 is generally a lot slower than GDDR5.

Hope that helps explain why there used to be a "lol 8gb" train more than a year ago.

Except, and this is a conjecture based off of the report of 4 Gbit GDDR5 chips, the design of the motherboard for 2GB GDDR5 would be identical to 4GB GDDR5.

Reiko said Gianna was Orbis....
Now Gianna is Durango...


Which console will be the "gianna" of next gen?

Imagine if Gianna was a member of GAF....

 

[Horse Armour]

I hope we get TXAA 4x or equivalent as standard next gen

we wont. TXAA is an nvidia thing.

He's thinking of SMAA T2X probably which is free and open source just like FXAA and MLAA.

 

[shinobi602]

Because we were all talking about faster memory (such as GDDR5).
Consoles usually had faster memory than what we were all using as general purpose memory in our PCs.

Up until not too long ago, Sony still had 2GB GDDR5 in their target spec sheets.

Yes yes, provisionally maintaining that if densities increase or whatever they'll do more.
There was a lot of internal outcry at that I'm sure, but if you look at the motherboard complexity that 4GB of GDDR5 would introduce, you'll see why that was the case.

That, and the bean counters don't like it much.

As far as MS goes, they're using 8GB of DDR3, which really isn't anything special in of itself. They have 32mb of ESRam on the GPU to mitigate the fact the memory and bandwidth of DDR3 is generally a lot slower than GDDR5.

Hope that helps explain why there used to be a "lol 8gb" train more than a year ago.

Crytek didn't say anything about GDDR type memory. Everything was laughing at the prospect of 8Gb DDR3 ram.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=427598&highlight=

 

[statham]

Orbis :Nsync
Durango : Back street boys
Wii U : O town

 

[op_ivy]

doesnt "kinect in" indicate that it IS NOT included with the system and again would be sold separately?

 

[Durante]

True. I'm just looking at the block diagram and how much silicon Microsoft is dedicating to that and the memory movers (and the audio DSP), all of which is custom to the system and expensive, and wondering why that, instead of more space dedicated to more GPU resources. They're telling developers it brings a number of advantages and frees them up to do "things," which I don't understand in an appreciable way. They spend a lot of time in their documentation talking about them.

Stupid question, but are you sure your block diagram is representative of the relative die size of the individual components?

 

[TheLegendOfMart]

doesnt "kinect in" indicate that it IS NOT included with the system and again would be sold separately?

No it just means that there is a port in the back as opposed to being built into the unit itself.

 

[metalslimer]

It seems one thing Durango and Orbis fanboys agree on: Lets be mean to Wii U.

But lets be honest, Wii U deserves it.

Uh...not really? Did the Wii U kill your family?

 

[xemumanic]

doesnt "kinect in" indicate that it IS NOT included with the system and again would be sold separately?

Not really. More that its an external device.

 

[Baconsammy]

Read the post I was responding to.

I've been seeing your infantile posts in many threads. Good luck.

 

[Takuya]

doesnt "kinect in" indicate that it IS NOT included with the system and again would be sold separately?

Could just be the hardware is separate. You really think you'll mount your XBOX720 above your TV or on top of your media shelves?

 

[McHuj]

True. I'm just looking at the block diagram and how much silicon Microsoft is dedicating to that and the memory movers (and the audio DSP), all of which is custom to the system and expensive, and wondering why that, instead of more space dedicated to more GPU resources. They're telling developers it brings a number of advantages and frees them up to do "things," which I don't understand in an appreciable way. They spend a lot of time in their documentation talking about them.

Wait you know the area numbers for the pieces in the block diagram?

 

[Blueblur1]

I know I'm super late but I was watching the inauguration. Man, I'm excited!

 

[Spongebob]

Interesting specs, if Microsoft ships Kinect 2 with all the systems how much would the price range me?

Judging by the specs in the VGleaks article its pretty much guaranteed that they're shipping this thing with Kinect 2.0 packed in.

 

[pixlexic]

Yeah the one thing this threads says is the neogaf hates the wii u. lol

 

[Death Dealer]

Huh? RAM is far from the only important metric, GPU FLOPS and CPU power are both equally important and they're both fairly disappointing (I'm including PS4 here as well).

I wonder if Epic knew all along and despite their best efforts, couldn't get more muscle put into them. Don't give us new hw until it's a massive leap etc. They seemed to hint 2.5TF would be their ideal. And I remember about a year ago, them hinting UE4 engine gets interesting at 1TF GPU compute. I think they may have based that comment on their knowledge of new Xbox specs.

 

[xtop]

http://www.vgleaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/durango_arq1.jpg[/ IMG]

doesnt "kinect in" indicate that it IS NOT included with the system and again would be sold separately?[/QUOTE]

doesn't it simply indicate it uses a special input and not usb. don't think it really suggests it being included or not included either way

 

[Beerman462]

I have a gut feeling about at least one of the next gen consoles using their predecessor as a client for ... something. That's just me spitballing though.

3.2 GHz PowerPC Tri-Core Xenon inside every Kinect 2.0 for BC and to handle kinect processing.

 

[Can Crusher]

The Orbis is better than everything then.

Well you know, it's always a matter of context.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

doesnt "kinect in" indicate that it IS NOT included with the system and again would be sold separately?

I'm pretty sure that means kinect will have a dedicated input port. Kinect for the 360 was hampered by USB bandwidth.

edit - badly beaten.

 

[charsace]

Why are you still talking about the gaming industry as if we're still in 2005? Many things have changed since then, Epic could easily come up with a f2p Unreal Tournament 2014 that blows everything else out of the water graphically, consoles are not the only way to make money anymore.

So you're saying epic will throw away safe money and jump into rocky waters? F2P is very unstable. People only look at few success stories and ignore the ton of F2P games that fail. Epic would be so dumb to do this.

 

[Margalis]

An audio DSP cannot be expensive and is really good at doing what an audio DSP needs to do.

A system needs to process audio and dedicated audio hardware gives you more price/performance than using a generic CPU. I'm sure the same is true of video codec processing and other heavily math-based stream transforms.

Using specialized hardware that is good at specific tasks is exactly the theory behind GPUs as well.

 

[mugoldeneagle03]

Can I try?

Orbis= Watermelon
Durango= Phillips Screwdriver
Wii U= Feather Pillow

Wii U = Watermelon
Durango = Audience
Orbis = Gallagher?

 

[ScepticMatt]

He's thinking of SMAA T2X probably which is free and open source just like FXAA and MLAA.

No I meant something equivalent in quality to TXAA 4x. Well, SMAA T2X isn't bad either.

 

[infinityBCRT]

Traditional BC has been off the table ever since going x86 was more or less confirmed.

Just speculating, but don't count out them including a Valhalla chip at a new 28nm process in Durango.

 

[Baconsammy]

Yeah the one thing this threads says is the neogaf hates the wii u. lol

If the next Xbox or PS launch with hardware capabilities barely above 7 year old tech with a bunch of overpriced ports, they'll receive even more hate than the Wii U is getting. I don't think this is a case of people shitting on Nintendo simply because they're Nintendo.

 

[op_ivy]

Could just be the hardware is separate. You really think you'll mount your XBOX720 above your TV or on top of your media shelves?

heh, good point. i remember reading in the thread early on that people were saying that this story confirms kinect would ship with the system - and i thought i had missed something. nothing to say either way at this point, other then the system is designed for it better this time around.

 

[Durante]

No I meant something equivalent in quality to TXAA 4x. Well, SMAA T2X isn't bad either.

TXAA 4x would be more like SMAA 4x.

 

[Spongebob]

Just speculating, but don't count out them including a Valhalla chip at a new 28nm process in Durango.

I doubt that's going to happen, it would add too much $ to the BOM and likely prevent profitability at launch.

 

[Megadragon15]

Orbis - The Empire Strikes Back
Durango - The Phantom Menace
Wii U - The Star Wars Holiday Special

 

[Nirolak]

Did you not see UE4? These systems will be able to handle GI. All of these engines aren't being made to do things that they won't be able to implement on the nextgen systems. Why waste all that money on something you won't be able to use? Whatever tech demos we have seen so far are an indicator as to what the next systems will do.

Well... UE4, unfortunately... How much do you like baked lighting?

You'll be held to this one to note.

 

[Reiko]

Except, and this is a conjecture based off of the report of 4 Gbit GDDR5 chips, the design of the motherboard for 2GB GDDR5 would be identical to 4GB GDDR5.



Imagine if Gianna was a member of GAF....

She wouldn't last long...:/

 

[Lion Heart]

Orbis: B&W
Durango: Paradigm
Wii U: Bose

 

[LukasTaves]

doesnt "kinect in" indicate that it IS NOT included with the system and again would be sold separately?

Why would you think that? Even it kinect comes bundled, i'm sure it wouldn't be actually embedded on the conosle, nor it would be already attached... It makes more sense if they are just using a dedicated port designed to provide lower latency/ higher throughput than even usb 3.0 could provide.

 

[Jadedx]

Exactly. Give me games, the hell with the rest.

16 new video game studios in the last 4 years.

 

[Meelow]

Durango = Family Guy
Orbis = Futurama
Wii U = American Dad

 

[StevieP]

True. I'm just looking at the block diagram and how much silicon Microsoft is dedicating to that and the memory movers (and the audio DSP), all of which is custom to the system and expensive, and wondering why that, instead of more space dedicated to more GPU resources. They're telling developers it brings a number of advantages and frees them up to do "things," which I don't understand in an appreciable way. They spend a lot of time in their documentation talking about them.

All of the consoles will have some type of dedicated silicon designed to take workload off other things. Hell, the Wii U has this type of thing as well.

Except, and this is a conjecture based off of the report of 4 Gbit GDDR5 chips, the design of the motherboard for 2GB GDDR5 would be identical to 4GB GDDR5.

Not at the densities people were talking about in late 2011/early 2012 would certainly make the board more complex.

Crytek didn't say anything about GDDR type memory. Everything was laughing at the prospect of 8Gb DDR3 ram.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=427598&highlight=

Your OP was wrong. MS uses GDDR3 in the Xbox 360.

Uh...not really? Did the Wii U kill your family?

No, but he's always hated it lol.
The Wii U has a CPU/GPU design that has a lot more in common with Durango than the 360, though. With the overall power that's only a bit above previous generation consoles, however, when you take everything into account. As I've always said, physics never lie.

 

[Gorillaz]

Imagine if Gianna was a member of GAF....

Gaf would probably crash...Don't think they can handle it lol

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

heh, good point. i remember reading in the thread early on that people were saying that this story confirms kinect would ship with the system - and i thought i had missed something. nothing to say either way at this point, other then the system is designed for it better this time around.

I think they'll ship with Kinect 2.0. I suspect GAF way overestimates Kinect's production costs. Kinect is a central strategy for MS.

 

[Horse Armour]

You'll be held to this one to note.

Finally, StevieP is being called out! He was obnoxious enough around the Wii U with his fake sources and promises.

 

[Dreaver]

Orbis = Dark Vader
Durango = Emperor Palpatine
Wii U = Jar Jar

 

[Can Crusher]

doesnt "kinect in" indicate that it IS NOT included with the system and again would be sold separately?

I think it actually means that it's not built in the system, and is separate. Probably bundled instead of being something that comes with every sku.

Which would eliminate some of the "cheap cuz of kinect built in" theories.

 

[charsace]

You'll be held to this one to note.

That's what I'm talking about.

All of these dudes are coming out and basically saying these companies don't know how to plan like its fact.

 

[pixlexic]

If the next Xbox or PS launch with hardware capabilities barely above 7 year old tech with a bunch of overpriced ports, they'll receive even more hate than the Wii U is getting. I don't think this is a case of people shitting on Nintendo simply because they're Nintendo.

Nah the wii u was belittled because everyone looked at its hardware like it was the same as the 360s/ps3. Remember the "OMG 1.2 ghz cpu!"

 

[xenist]

Let's not forget that efficiency, like every other performance metric save actual games running alongside other versions, is not in itself a predictor of real world performance. It's even more vague than frequency.

For a theoretical 1 TFLOPS chip to be faster than a 2 TFLOPS one the former must operate at 100% efficiency and the latter at below 50%. And as someone who knows a bit about how these things work, 100% efficiency can never be achieved. Ever. In the end everything is math. Whoever does the math quickest wins. Smarter math can help but if the raw performance differential is too big they may not be enough. This is super simplified of course. More of a theoretical exercise than a technical analysis.

 

[Trogdor1123]

What does a gig of ddr3 cost and what does a gig of Gddr5 cost? What is the actualy cost different?

 

[MCD]

Durango and MS can fuck right off if they don't let Rare go back to make real games

 

[QuikZilver]

Yeah the one thing this threads says is the neogaf hates the wii u. lol

Not hate people just consider it to be a weak console.