I think the Lottes' blog post deserves its own thread.
Your posts are confusing.
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VGLeaks Durango specs: x64 8-core CPU @1.6GHz, 8GB DDR3 + 32MB ESRAM, 50GB 6x BD...
- Thread starter Shikoro
- Start date
Your posts are confusing.
Probably to not clutter up this one with derailing convo.
What's this about Microsoft putting Windows 8 on the 720?
Why would they do that? We already have PCs...
Sure, the Kernel and the lower-level code is going to be almost identical of course, but they are definitely going to spruce up the UI and other stuff, get rid of the file system browsing, etc... To make it more like a console, like an entertainment machine.
It would be incredibly cheap of them to just build a PC, slap Win8 on it and say, there you go... there's your Xbox.
Why would they do that? We already have PCs...
Sure, the Kernel and the lower-level code is going to be almost identical of course, but they are definitely going to spruce up the UI and other stuff, get rid of the file system browsing, etc... To make it more like a console, like an entertainment machine.
It would be incredibly cheap of them to just build a PC, slap Win8 on it and say, there you go... there's your Xbox.
Tripp Daily
Member
What has changed from the point where the developers were excited about the possibilities of the durango and were telling game journalists such as Arthur the good things about the Durango to now?
If nothing of note has changed why is everyone sweating this?
Can Crusher
Banned
Some people just want to watch the world burn.
Proelite
Member
1.8 teraflops to 1.2 teraflops.
It's a decimal difference ffs. Seems highly unnecessary to fret over.
Tripp Daily
Member
What has changed with the Durango itself? was it downgraded at some point?
Or is everyone just enamored with the new shiny ball in the room?
And that decimal difference reflects a figure that has eleven zeros.
Those numbers don't really mean much...
I mean, for all we know (unless you've been given information the rest of us haven't), the Orbis Floating Point throughput of 1.86 could be Single Precision and the Durango's 1.2 could be Double Precision (1.2 TFLOPS double is unlikely, but not out of the question)...
Also, I am not convinced this alone will have a particularly huge impact on the performance difference of the two systems, being just one single metric in a whole system full of them.
It's 50%.
Proelite
Member
Specs where finalized sometime in late 2011 / earlier 2012.
Only minute changes such as clocks can be tweaked this late in the cycle.
I would be more worried about the shittiness of the January Orbis devkits revealed today in VGLeaks than a very reactive blog post by a known hater of Directx.
phosphor112
Banned
I would prefer 12GB DDR3 and 64MB ESRAM.
lol
phosphor112
Banned
Someone says yesterday that Orbis kits were seeing an improvement and now you say it is "shittiness". It is like the insiders want to incite/provoke people when things get boring with topsy turvy information.
Proelite
Member
Not really. But when you have Bkilian (ex-Microsoft) and ERP (current SCEA dev) on b3d both saying flops don't mean anything, I think it's safe to say that flops don't mean everything.
ROFL
They're both AMD. Those numbers are based on very similar hardware.
It is a significant difference.
Oh for the love of...
I can tell my ignore list is going to swell massively as E3 approaches.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
Not really. But when you have Bkilian (ex-Microsoft) and ERP (current SCEA dev) on b3d both saying flops don't mean anything, I think it's safe to say that flops don't mean everything.
They say Flops by themselves don't mean anything.
But if you are comparing an almost identical architecture to another (such as GPU from the same vendor), FLOPS are a pretty good indicator of performance.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Please feel free to explain why they are shitty.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Hate to shit this thread up with console war crap but do these rumours insinuate that the PS4 will be more powerful?
1. rrrright. 1Tflop of double precision...
2. Tflop is raw power. Both cards will have similar design.
XtremeXpider
Member
Same company (AMD), not the same chip and architecture (I guessing)
Officerrob
Banned
Everyone in the Orbis thread is proclaiming that the devkits are inline with the rumored specs, what gives?
Death Dealer
Member
But one's got a lot of sauce.... lol
This post is sad
Based on the rumors, there is nothing similar about the hardware other than being made by the same company sharing a CPU. It's like saying 360 and PS3 are similar hardware because they share the PPE and both have a GPU. The PS4 is designed around a moderate amount high bandwidth memory and the 360 is designed around a large amount of slow memory supplemented with esram. They're very different approaches and these differences will be reflected in every part of the design as they were almost certainly decided on early in the process. Theoretical peak FLOP performance is only relevant in cases where that is your bottleneck
You know I always thought your post very slightly slanted as if you had a horse in the race and with that comment it's pretty much confirmed. Not sure now how much to give credence to your 'insider' information.
iamshadowlark
Banned
I really feel for anybody who reads posts from the developer types and come away with the conclusion that flops or raw power don't mean anything.
Some people are ignoring stupidity better than others. For me, I just use to tools this forum provides.
Pretty sure you will come across your share of insanity come the next few months.
phosphor112
Banned
Yes.
Lol, good, because that is the actual difference in raw performance.
I don't think a sane person would define that post as stupid, this is a complicated area.
Claiming 1.2TF double precision in a closed box with TDP of less than 200W and 28nm fabrication is sane? Not even AMD Radeon HD7970 GHz edition produces that.
They're both based on 7000 series AMD GPUs. One is better.
Again, emphasis on how easy it is to make simple mistakes regarding technology.
Not really. But when you have Bkilian (ex-Microsoft) and ERP (current SCEA dev) on b3d both saying flops don't mean anything, I think it's safe to say that flops don't mean everything.
ROFL
Well Orbis also has a bandwidth advantage, and it probably has the same ALU utilization.
If you believe that the 32MB of ESRAM has lower latency than L1 cache, then there's some argument to be made that you can get higher utilization IF you can schedule moving data to the ESRAM without paying bandwidth penalties. This looks like a long shot to me.
BTW of course Tim Lottes hates DirectX, especially when the comparison is with LibGCM. PC APIs are a necessary evil, and nothing you'd want on a console. It also clarifies his position on Durango, which he sees running a full version of Windows with DirectX.
iamshadowlark
Banned
I won't call it stupid, because he honestly may not know but it reeks of spin.
I am confused now.
I honestly didn't know. I am not a GPU designer or engineer or anything... not even really an enthusiast, though I find them interesting.
I just wanted to have a part in the discussion and thought I might have something worthwhile to say. I guess not. I'll stay away from all future discussions of that nature.
XtremeXpider
Member
RSX = 400GFLOPs, Xenos = 250GFLOPs... yes, flops flops everywhere...
We don't know that.
Beerman462
Member
This makes me hopeful for x-play between the new Xbox and PC at least GFWL games.
If you're talking about the rumored specs those are the rumored specs.