metalslimer
Member
Um why exactly did you buy an N64?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Any longterm Nintendo fans find the low tech route frustrating?
- Thread starter entremet
- Start date
Um why exactly did you buy an N64?
You should probably read this book.
And you should´ve read my postings, then you would´ve known what was going to happen to the WiiU months before it was released. Was pretty obvious after the E3 though, well, of course not for Nintendo.
Captain Smoker
Member
My post refers to the "Wii = luck"-story.
I'm not interested in your Wii U - posts after reading some of them.
metalslimer
Member
Well honestly the Wii U proves either the Iwata that released the Wii with the blue ocean strategy was either abducted by aliens and replaced with the one that released the 3DS and Wii U or it was all bullshit and they got lucky because the Wii U is certainly not a blue ocean product.
If the Wii wasn´t luck Nintendo wouldn´t be in the position they are now with the WiiU. Pretty simple logic. It makes even more sense when you look how they failed with the N64 and Gamecube. But go ahead believe whatever you want.
Wickerbasket
Member
Better graphics and the great multiplayer experience that was Goldeneye?
N64 was probably one of my favourite consoles.
Captain Smoker
Member
The market is dynamic, what worked for the Wii doesn't need to work for the Wii U.
The blue ocean back then is 60% of the red ocean today.
We can declare every success as luck. Of course, luck is always a factor, but not the only one, this is a multi-billion dollar company that changed their whole philosophy over several years, this needs a good management, good marketing, hard work, good products, etc.
The market doesn't consist of one factor, or do you only bet on luck to have succes in your life?
...good luck then.
metalslimer
Member
Clearly considering the amazing strategy Nintendo has in place for the Wii U right now and its selling gangbusters.
Captain Smoker
Member
I don't see the point in your sarcasm, I didn't say that the Wii U sells gangbusters currently.
And that isn't even the thing I'm talking about: "Was the Wii just luck?"
Mostly disappointed with there being no 'revolution' in gaming like I hoped for a while, double screens, wiimotes, and whatever the hell Wii U is (I haven't kept up on gaming news for a while) are all just meh.
I hope the Wii U fails miserably and Nintendo releases a beast of a console in 2015 with the new Zelda moved to it.
I hope the Wii U fails miserably and Nintendo releases a beast of a console in 2015 with the new Zelda moved to it.
AdventureRacing
Member
You should probably read this book.
I think everyone knows about this by now. The thing is though that nintendo haven't been able to follow that up successfully and they have shown a complete lack of understanding for why the wii blew up in the first place (hence the wii U doing so badly).
I think what he is getting at is that the wii U shows that nintendo don't understand why they succeeded and hence couldn't follow it up. That's what he means by luck. Of course it isn't really 'luck' but i understand what he is saying.
Captain Smoker
Member
If the Wii U sells miserably they won't earn money and they can't spend a lot of money on R&D or moneyhat a beast of a console.
Oppo
Member
Oh wow, I thought we were past throwing around that Blue Ocean Strategy book., lol.
That thing really hit some nerve with the Nintendo crowd. Some interesting notions for sure but it is entirely too kind to say that Nintendo fully anticipated and orchestrated the Wii's success; look at how flatfooted they were w/r/t units available.
That thing really hit some nerve with the Nintendo crowd. Some interesting notions for sure but it is entirely too kind to say that Nintendo fully anticipated and orchestrated the Wii's success; look at how flatfooted they were w/r/t units available.
Captain Smoker
Member
You people simplify those market dynamics too much, do you really think it's that easy to survive in this market how you describe it here? Or that you only have to consider two or three factors?
Most of the decisions or desires here would've killed Nintendo long before 2005. Going by NeoGAF, the Wii would've never happened, nor the big revenues they made, etc.
Yes, but Nintendo isn´t. They tried to pull another Wii with the WiiU and absolutely failed to realize what made the Wii succesfull and why it´s nearly impossible to repeat such a scenario.
And that´s exactly the reason why i belive the Wii was mostly luck. Nintendo as a console maker doesn´t really have a clue what they are doing, which got more and more obvious with every new hardware they released. All these ridiculous decisions that cost them billions and billions of dollars over and over again (alienating the third parties back in the SNES times, cartridges for N64, minidiscs for the Gamecube, design choices etc.).
Yes, luck is always a factor, but not as much as with the Wii. It was clearly a at the right time, at the right place with the right gimmick phenomenon. You can´t really plan this and you absolutely can´t force it (see Move, Kinect, Gampad for example).
To succeed over a long period you´re going to need hard work, aka loads of high quality software, quality hardware, a good price and so on. Nintendo is learning this the hard way right now.
Herb Alpert
Banned
I seriously doubt this will happen.
You have to admit the fact that nintendo will never join the arms race again. They know they have no chance against Microsoft and Sony. I agree that the wii u seems disappointing when reading the specs sheet, but let's wait for games other than NSMBU or Nintendo Land to judge.
And if it fails miserably they will be in trouble and release 2 mario Kart and 2 New super mario bros for their next system. I hope no.
But I think it's possible that the life time of the wii u, depending on the results, will be shorter than the one of the wii (and other nintendo console, 5-6 years). But, again, time will tell, things will be clearer after E3 and in one year...
OK, I want it just to do badly enough for it to have a short life span.
Whatever happened to that 'war chest' Nintendo fans were bragging about? Heh, I remember back when I spent a lot of time on the gaming side people would mock Nintendo fans for taking pride in Nintendo for being in a good financial state. I think that was before the DS/Wii money machines even when the games were dry and there wasn't much else to look forward to.
I wasn´t saying the Wii was 100% luck since Nintendo clearly has it´s qualities as a software manufacturer which also played a big part. But for the most part it was luck, as we are now seeing with the WiiU which is returning to a Gamecube/N64 level of "success".
They don't have to, moore's law is taking care of that. Who knows though, maybe in the future there will be new expensive parts to consoles, like a brain-computer interface...
Captain Smoker
Member
Whatever.
Jacksonlee
Member
i concur. with a proper controller :j
So nothing to add except bosting books? What a pity.
You do realize that you are contradicting every point you make with your reasoning.
Captain Smoker
Member
I wrote everything I wanted to say, extrapolate this with long posts won't change anything about your opinion.
Since the inclusion of network adapters and online play, no hardware has really changed the way games are played. Even the motion/camera stuff was just substituting button presses. AI hasn't advanced, models on screen has advanced glacially, hell even the system clock has changed game development more than recent hardware horsepower.
TheExecutive
Member
I love my 3DS XL. Don't have a problem with the graphics and enjoy the games on it. I guess I just play different kinds of games on Nintendo platforms and they have found their market with me.
I do. We buy a decent number of iOS games because a lot of them have a great fun
rice payoff. And I cannot stop myself from buying Nintendo consoles for the same reason.That's because they've changed strategies and have openly admitted that Wii U is not really a "blue ocean" product, since smartphones, Kinect, etc have really saturated that market now. They aimed the Wii U at the entire ocean, red and blue, with technology meant to address the issues brought up in this book instead:
I am interpreting your Yamauchi lust and Iwata hate accurately. I have no bias towards Iwata, I didn't even think much of either Nintendo presidents before your weird hate for him. I am not saying those things to make me look cool or like I am always right, but feel free to continue to ignore my posts. Some of your complaints are directly Yamauchi's fault. Lack of third party Gamecube games? Yamauchi refused to left Squaresoft develop for the Gamecube or any Nintendo platform for awhile. Not to mention that the Gamecube was doing so bad that some stores refused to stock Gamecube games. So of course they would cancel GC ports when they knew they would bomb. Yeah, Wii got shafted with 3rd party support too, but at least it was profitable.
Iwata should be praised with making Nintendo so profitable and relevant again with the DS and Wii. He burned bridges with many Nintendo fans though. I don't think any Nintendo system has ever been considered a powerhouse, but it was clearly a disappointing "leap" in horsepower. The shitty E3s showings and constant disappointment that man delivered for years didn't help. Of course, he got way too cocky with the 3DS as well. That led to the loss of profit that you mentioned, as well as a lot of shame on him.
Iwata is not perfect, but he is pretty good at his job and hasn't done anything to earn your seemingly nonsensical hate. Nintendo is also seemingly going back into more powerful machines, while still trying to balance new ways to play. Because clearly going full out powerhouse is still not working (Vita). So why don't you stop it with your childish attitude and baseless claims? I mean jeez, you suggested that Iwata would have straight up refused to allow Super Metroid and OoT to exist because they pushed the graphical limits on the system too much. It is not like Yamauchi or Iwata were directly responsible for every feature in all the games made under their tenure anyway. If you want me to stop calling you those things, then stop acting like them.
Edit:
Miyamoto I could agree with you on, although I don't know if they would have had the same level of success. Yokoi I have to disagree with though, seeing as how his first contribution (Ultra Hand) was just something he made in his spare time while he was a janitor of the company, and Yamauchi stumbled upon. That made Nintendo go into the toymaking business, which would lead into videogames.
If Nintendo was a static global corporation trying to exist in an ever-changing world, it would've died a long time ago. You need to be a dynamic corporation in order to handle dynamic environments and contexts. This may not be as especially true for smaller local businesses like newpaper angencies, but we're talking about a company that has multiple headquarters around the world, has first party studios to manage, as well as various brands and franchises.
Also, it's too early to judge Nintendo regarding the Wii U. I'm okay with people judging how it was launched. I'm not okay with people signalling that its not successful compared to the Wii when it hasn't even been two or three months since release. Nintendo's been making consoles longer than Sony or Microsoft. While they're ideas may not always have been good, they've found ways to make themselves profitable. They don't need some poster here who hasn't had any experience managing a business let alone a global one telling them what they need to do. I'm pretty sure they sure know well what to do; and that needs both good market insight, adequate resources to respond to market changes, and a degree of luck.
Moreover, Kinect was successful for Microsoft.
Just ignore THG. No amount of fact giving or fair reasoning is going to get him off his Yamauchi/anti-Iwata bandwagon. To him, Iwata is a bad president who has only made bad decisions, compared to Yamauchi who, despite his mistakes, brought about the best company Nintendo could be.
TreasureHunterG
Banned
Couldn't have said better.
And Iwata was erroneous wrong. Do you HONESTLY agree with him that in 2001 graphical reached "a level where they don't support new gameplay mechanics"? By his logic, Xbox 360 and PS3 games can't offer nothing new that PS2, GC and Xbox already offered. This is bullshit, only a delusional fanboy can acknowledge with this. Even if this is true, then why would Iwata release Wii U if, by his logic, graphics reached saturation level? A strong hardware can even improve Nintendo's innovation and content. If they were able to do Galaxy with the Wii hardware, I wonder what they could have done if they had a PS3-like hardware in their hands.
GiantBreadbug
Member
Gonna go ahead and answer the question I guess.
Nope. Tech to me always has been, and always will be a vehicle to push forward and evolve the very soul of games, which is the way they are played. When the excitement about game machines is mostly about trying to cram more and more technically impressive pieces inside, that's when I get a bit cynical.
Fun and power are not mutually exclusive, but one doesn't always imply the other. I guess I'm always just too busy enjoying my games to nitpick about power and graphics.
Nope. Tech to me always has been, and always will be a vehicle to push forward and evolve the very soul of games, which is the way they are played. When the excitement about game machines is mostly about trying to cram more and more technically impressive pieces inside, that's when I get a bit cynical.
Fun and power are not mutually exclusive, but one doesn't always imply the other. I guess I'm always just too busy enjoying my games to nitpick about power and graphics.
metalslimer
Member
That's because they've changed strategies and have openly admitted that Wii U is not really a "blue ocean" product, since smartphones, Kinect, etc have really saturated that market now. They aimed the Wii U at the entire ocean, red and blue, with technology meant to address the issues brought up in this book instead:
Then Nintendo made a hilariously bad attempt considering Wii U right now is not very appealing for the blue or red oceans. My idea of what the next gen Nintendo console was going to be would be a product that could appeal to both markets. A good bit stronger than the PS3 or 360 with the best multiplatform games for a year in order to establish a base with strong Nintendo support right out of the gate
I guess I am going to have to, considering he now seems to be ignoring my responses. Going by his he never really read much of mine anyway. Sucks though, cause I wanted to know why he is acting like Iwata is the worst thing to happen to Nintendo, but I never got a real response. I guess some people just want someone to blame for Nintendo's new(ish) direction, other than the gaming climate itself.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
Pretty much the entirety of it's booming sales lifetime they were shipping and selling many multiples of Sony's best PS2 months.
Maybe it's first six months they were caught flatfooted. From then on they were overproducing and still selling out.
Interceptor
Banned
Yeah, well.. No. Actually they didn't offer anything new until everyone was jumping on the motion bandwagon. That's the reason why many old gamers lost interest in gaming during the end / beginning of the ps2/360 era. Everything was just a rehash with a few new shaders. The Wii brought back a lot of gamers who lost interest. Asvfor your question about the WiiU, i answered it a couple of posts before like 3x already.
That's what I expected too. It would have given them good word of mouth with enthusiasts and press. Not to mention a better chance for third party support.
Fixed to address reality.
Maximus.
Member
I skipped the Wii because of the underpowered tech and wanting a different gaming exp from what they offered. At first I was angry they underpowered their machine again, but with their recent announcements I am honestly considering eventually investing in the Wii U. I am pissed that the 3ds isn't getting as much support as I expected so I will wait on the Wii u until there is a solid library.
I play since a couple of years only on Nintendo systems and on a high-tech PC. It's enjoyable to play game like Battlefield 3 from time to time. But the only thing what really matters is gameplay: I had hundered of hours fun with games like Xenoblade, The Last Story, Super Mario Galaxy 1/2, etc. From a technical point of view those games are very mediocre - but from an artistic point of view their look comes into a great picture when considering all other factors like gameplay, sound, world, story.
So no, I don't find the low tech route frustrating.
So no, I don't find the low tech route frustrating.
SolarPowered
Member
Nintendo has to have backup plans. That is just part of running a good business. Didn't they have something else planned in case the Wii did badly?
It's probably not a beast of a console though lol.
The Hermit
Member
Considering Nintendo would be dead by now if it was keeping the same idea as Sony and MS, I am honestly glad they are trying something more than just "bigger,faster, stronger"
Like the WiiU is showing, the lack of 3rd party on Nintendo consoles have little to do with its power.
Also, Since I decided to be a PC gamer (and most 3rd parties are into it too) graphics on the console front is a lost battle. I am actually happy that the new consoles are closer to pc than before, it means easier and better ports.
Like the WiiU is showing, the lack of 3rd party on Nintendo consoles have little to do with its power.
Also, Since I decided to be a PC gamer (and most 3rd parties are into it too) graphics on the console front is a lost battle. I am actually happy that the new consoles are closer to pc than before, it means easier and better ports.
3DS is now the new DS, isn't it? Sales were globally excellent in Q4, the price is now right and 2013 lineup is full of potential.
Wii U will follow the same sales pattern as 3DS. It needs an ironed OS, more Nintendo system sellers and a price cut. Business as usual for Iwata.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Well, it's doing well in Japan, but it was down year over year in North America. I don't know about Europe.
H_Prestige
Banned
You should probably read this book.
So why didn't Nintendo just follow the blue ocean strategy again, since it worked so well for the wii? Did they just intentionally design the wii u to be gamecube 2.0, instead of making billions going for the blue ocean?
Only in Japan.
Wii U will not follow the 3DS. It will follow the Gamecube. When making predictions based off past events, it's helpful to look at why things happened, and not just what happened.
Then sales fell off of a cliff.
harbingeru
Banned
I knew Nintendo fanboys were delusional but this post takes the cake for ridiculousness.
In France it was a smashing hit in Q4. Their target is 30 millions 3DS sold by April and I believe they will reach it. Seeing how kids in my daughter class now either have a 3DS or desperately want one, and knowing Pokemon is on its way, it feels like Nintendo finally made the 3DS accepted as the DS successor. They will probably reach a 50 million userbase by middle of next year.
With no piracy at sight, I call it a praising success for Nintendo, and a tremendous foundation to promote Wii U and foster cross sell.
Similar threads
- Poll