Well, they do have a division, but I wouldn't call it a strong division. I'd love to find out how many employees the regional eShop brand managers have, or how many internal resources Nintendo has devoted to the project.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Wii U Virtual Console Details
- Thread starter entremet
- Start date
Well, they do have a division, but I wouldn't call it a strong division. I'd love to find out how many employees the regional eShop brand managers have, or how many internal resources Nintendo has devoted to the project.
What do you want to bet that it is? Microsoft couldn't figure out backwards compatibility with the original Xbox for years after the 360 was available and many games still don't work or have online function ripped out.
It's foolish to think anyone will be giving you anything better than what Nintendo has done with the Wii -> Wii U. We can play everything right now in Wii mode. My guess is that's more than we can expect from Sony and Microsoft in the next generation.
BruiserBear
Banned
That only happened in the transition from Xbox to Xbox 360 because Microsoft completely changed their chip maker in the process. Things will be very different in the transition to the next Xbox. Your games will transfer to the next Xbox and be fully integrated into your games library, etc.
What're the chances they do Gamecube games on the Wii U VC?
I'm trying to decide between collecting GC games or collecting N64 games. If GC games come to VC I'll just pick them up there. I have a thing for cartridges and the N64 is one of my favorite consoles, but I have a bunch of the games on the Wii's VC. If I knew GC games were going to the VC I'd be buying tons N64 cartridges instead of splurging on non-scratched GC discs.
I'm trying to decide between collecting GC games or collecting N64 games. If GC games come to VC I'll just pick them up there. I have a thing for cartridges and the N64 is one of my favorite consoles, but I have a bunch of the games on the Wii's VC. If I knew GC games were going to the VC I'd be buying tons N64 cartridges instead of splurging on non-scratched GC discs.
BruiserBear
Banned
The chances are very good. The only question is how long will it take, and even once they start releasing them they're going to trickle out, so it's going to be a long time before you can buy a fairly decent number of Gamecube games. Also, there is a good chance many games won't ever make it, just like it was on the Wii Virtual Console.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
That would fuck up the 30 theme, get with it.
Let's wait and see before being so sure, eh?
JaseMath
Member
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Yeah, just like the assumption that the 3DS would get GBA games...
Just because people here say it, it doesn't make it inevitable.
Super Metroid is almost here.
suavelicious
Member
Don't forget it's just a trial campain for the WiiU virtual console, the real VC launches some time in Spring. Plus it's the NES's 30th anniversary so that's why it is 30 days.
360 has a PPC chip developed by IBM, Durango has an x64 chip developed by AMD. PS3 has a Cell chip co-developed by IBM/Sony, Orbis has an x64 chip developed by AMD.
I mean the leaks could be wrong but it seems unlikely at this point.
Not sure if serious but fuck the 30 theme. Nintendo is sitting on the best back catalog in gaming and should have released VC with at least 5 SNES/GC/N64 games. There's seriously no logical reason for them to botch Wii U VC as bad as they did. I want to play Super Metroid for the first time and there's no reason I should have to wait for their bullshit one a month jargon.
ipukespiders
Member
Keep the 30 theme.
New game every 30 hours.
New game every 30 hours.
I think it was a joke...
where is the confirmation that U VC launches in Spring? was it in the Nintendo Direct before the one last week??
At 30 dollars each.
BruiserBear
Banned
That was a simpleton explanation for what happened in the transition from Xbox to Xbox 360. There was more to it that made it more complicated, and I don't want to bother digging into it here, but there are reasons to believe Microsoft intends to have every Xbox 360 game working properly on the next Xbox.
Yes
It was in the one last week.
I'm sure they do, doesn't mean it's feasible.
jetsetfluken
Member
This "rebuilding" of the VC is some of the worst news to come out of these online-based consoles.
When Wii U launched, I was under the impression that this is where Nintendo would hit it's stride with that huge VC library they've built up, that was being neglected by the masses due to the out-of-the-way nature of the Wii Shop (and it's clunky navigation to boot).
So we're saying that the hundreds and hundreds of games accumulated on the Wii VC over the years will sit stagnant without any attention (besides the more "tech-savvy" portion) on the old "Wii Mode" shop? Or is that going down? Even if not, it's hidden under multiple layers and will be neglected.
It's really a joke. They took years building that up (slowly mind you, it took years before some obvious big hits or cult classics made it), and now here we are seeing them re-building it at a complete snail's pace or possibly slower than before. All that building up out the window. All because they already released the "biggest" hits on Wii VC and want an excuse to bring attention towards them again. That could be done via the right visibility on Wii U interface, or simply announcing off-screen play for each title to drum hype instead of having them unavailable completely with off-screen play as the excuse.
It would make more sense to port the entire library and integrate into the modern Wii U shop/interface, gradually patching in off-screen play one by one. They could still make a big deal and hype each release when they get the novelty patched in. But no, it (presumably) would get them more money if they make them completely unavailable and release as re-decorated, trickled out at the slowest pace possible so there is "ammo" for years to come.
It's a real shame. The library built up on Wii VC was "getting there" but needed to fill in gaps still. Now we see all those years of waiting for slow VC releases go out the window and we are essentially back in 2006, where in 6 years from now, we will be at the same place, or less content even, we are now on Wii VC. All for the excuse of a novelty, off-screen play?
And we probably will not get many of the titles on Wii VC, because more than likely in order to "re-publish" as Wii U VC format, licenses need to be re-gained or renewed. And many of the companies that agreed to do that for Wii VC are now non-existant or not in the same climate or will simply not agree to do new licenses.
Less variety in the library, trickling out over years, all over again...thanks a lot "off-screen play". A gimmick, a novelty that I myself lost interest of after using the console for a day. I'd much rather play on the TV with better IQ and screen size and resolution. The screens on the Gamepads are not even great quality, especially after being spoiled by high-end mobile phone screens or the Vita's OLED. I'll use my TV, thank you.
As if there weren't already enough letdowns with how the Wii U is handled, this is a huge blow for me. The digital library, not only VC but WiiWare, were things to look forward to for me to get use out of Wii U due to it's current stagnant offerings in terms of new retail (and digital) titles. Now we have to sit here like sheep anticipating Nintendo's "trickling out" snail-pace method of games that we already waited years to get on Wii VC? Sorry, I won't take part.
It's increasing proof that the Wii U launch was rushed to the market. Things like preparing their back catalog to work on the new platform is something that was to be expected, but now it's a "fortunate inconvenience" that Nintendo can just slowly release these titles again and build up something that has already been built up, all for a novelty that ultimately really isn't the genuine or most enjoyable way to experience these games.
All of this is another disappointment to me in modern Nintendo, who, in my eyes, can't afford many more disappointments. I am not a fan of Iwata-run Nintendo, and mid-way through the GCN generation when he took pedestal, I noticed the changes beginning. It is a shame that this is their strategy with online marketplaces, among other things. I understand they want to retain a sense of value of these archive games by not making them freely available, to be forgotten soon later, but there is a tasteful way to make them available and visible without having to remove them completely and re-drip them out.
Also, I want to know if Wii U "Wii Mode" and the Wii itself as far as VC games go have any quality difference. What is the true "genuine" experience as far as resolution, scaling and IQ? Are they exactly the same, or does Wii U running through HDMI, or some kind of scaling, decrease "genuine" IQ?
When Wii U launched, I was under the impression that this is where Nintendo would hit it's stride with that huge VC library they've built up, that was being neglected by the masses due to the out-of-the-way nature of the Wii Shop (and it's clunky navigation to boot).
So we're saying that the hundreds and hundreds of games accumulated on the Wii VC over the years will sit stagnant without any attention (besides the more "tech-savvy" portion) on the old "Wii Mode" shop? Or is that going down? Even if not, it's hidden under multiple layers and will be neglected.
It's really a joke. They took years building that up (slowly mind you, it took years before some obvious big hits or cult classics made it), and now here we are seeing them re-building it at a complete snail's pace or possibly slower than before. All that building up out the window. All because they already released the "biggest" hits on Wii VC and want an excuse to bring attention towards them again. That could be done via the right visibility on Wii U interface, or simply announcing off-screen play for each title to drum hype instead of having them unavailable completely with off-screen play as the excuse.
It would make more sense to port the entire library and integrate into the modern Wii U shop/interface, gradually patching in off-screen play one by one. They could still make a big deal and hype each release when they get the novelty patched in. But no, it (presumably) would get them more money if they make them completely unavailable and release as re-decorated, trickled out at the slowest pace possible so there is "ammo" for years to come.
It's a real shame. The library built up on Wii VC was "getting there" but needed to fill in gaps still. Now we see all those years of waiting for slow VC releases go out the window and we are essentially back in 2006, where in 6 years from now, we will be at the same place, or less content even, we are now on Wii VC. All for the excuse of a novelty, off-screen play?
And we probably will not get many of the titles on Wii VC, because more than likely in order to "re-publish" as Wii U VC format, licenses need to be re-gained or renewed. And many of the companies that agreed to do that for Wii VC are now non-existant or not in the same climate or will simply not agree to do new licenses.
Less variety in the library, trickling out over years, all over again...thanks a lot "off-screen play". A gimmick, a novelty that I myself lost interest of after using the console for a day. I'd much rather play on the TV with better IQ and screen size and resolution. The screens on the Gamepads are not even great quality, especially after being spoiled by high-end mobile phone screens or the Vita's OLED. I'll use my TV, thank you.
As if there weren't already enough letdowns with how the Wii U is handled, this is a huge blow for me. The digital library, not only VC but WiiWare, were things to look forward to for me to get use out of Wii U due to it's current stagnant offerings in terms of new retail (and digital) titles. Now we have to sit here like sheep anticipating Nintendo's "trickling out" snail-pace method of games that we already waited years to get on Wii VC? Sorry, I won't take part.
It's increasing proof that the Wii U launch was rushed to the market. Things like preparing their back catalog to work on the new platform is something that was to be expected, but now it's a "fortunate inconvenience" that Nintendo can just slowly release these titles again and build up something that has already been built up, all for a novelty that ultimately really isn't the genuine or most enjoyable way to experience these games.
All of this is another disappointment to me in modern Nintendo, who, in my eyes, can't afford many more disappointments. I am not a fan of Iwata-run Nintendo, and mid-way through the GCN generation when he took pedestal, I noticed the changes beginning. It is a shame that this is their strategy with online marketplaces, among other things. I understand they want to retain a sense of value of these archive games by not making them freely available, to be forgotten soon later, but there is a tasteful way to make them available and visible without having to remove them completely and re-drip them out.
Also, I want to know if Wii U "Wii Mode" and the Wii itself as far as VC games go have any quality difference. What is the true "genuine" experience as far as resolution, scaling and IQ? Are they exactly the same, or does Wii U running through HDMI, or some kind of scaling, decrease "genuine" IQ?
I feel 100% exactly as you do. I get really furious when I start to think about it and I just have to remind myself none of this shit is in my control. They could have a vast, on-demand legacy library if they wanted, but instead they're going to slow-roll the whole thing piece-meal along their seemingly arbitrary release schedule.
They could be making consistent bank during the lulls of the WiiU softare release schedule if they only dedicated some more resources to getting that content over.
We've had years to form a reasonable expectation. And one only has to look at the Wii and 3DS VC release rate to have formed that. No one pulled these notions out of thin air.
BruiserBear
Banned
I love how you say that when we've got a mountain of evidence that suggests they're going to trickle these games out over years, AGAIN.
First you have the Wii VC. It trickled out games over years and years.
Then you have the 3DS VC. It's been around for over a year now, and again the games are trickling out over years and years.
Now we've got the Wii U VC announcement, and on day one we got ONE GAME. They also announced games were coming for the NES, SNES, and GBA. Not even a word said about the N64 or Gamecube.
Are you seriously interested in arguing things will be different for the U? lol
jetsetfluken
Member
Do you see how 3DS VC is handled? That and learning from history of the pace of Wii VC are actually good indicators of what to expect here.
Nintendo are NOT going to be nice and release large amounts of VC games per month in "Wii U friendly" format. They are going to want to release a few times a month or monthly at best, to maximize milking out attention towards titles that were already released.
And that's just the first months so they get a "good impression" in. As seen later on with 3DS VC and Wii VC, there may actually be zero releases months and months apart. It's really comical.
Back with Wii VC I was criticizing the slow release schedule because there are literally hundreds and hundreds of games on each archive console to release, and at the pace they were going (and are still going), by the end of each current platform's life cycle, not even a quarter to half of the archive platform's games will be made available digitally. They don't have the time to sit and trickle out, and yet they do. They are not interested in building a competent digital back-catalog archiving history, they are interested in milking money/attention to already re-released "hits"...re-released again and again. This behavior, under Iwata-run Nintendo, was seen even back on GBA with the "NES Classics" line, games already made available that generation via a few collections, playable in Animal Crossing GCN, e-Reader, etc.
They know the "masses" are only interested in the big IPs and they have already exhausted that ammo on Wii VC, so with off-screen play as an excuse, they can now re-hype these releases at a slow pace for Wii U VC.
Myself, I'm more interested in the more under-the-radar or niche or cult classic releases that came from Wii VC (you know, games I haven't already beaten 500 times over the years), and now those are going to take a back-seat presumably to the "big hits". So we have to wait like sheep for things that have already been released?
Gamecube on Wii U VC? Think again. Taking a cue from what's going on with 360/PS3, retail disc "HD Collections" (or in Nintendo's case, most likely single games and no collections). Or a mix of that and only a very small amount of "retouch jobs" like Wind Waker Wii U. That kind of treatment will only be present in a few titles, since it takes more effort than your typical "HD collection" treatment.
What about the great library of N64 games that we only saw about 15 of on Wii VC? One of the libraries we were hoping was expanded and never really was? Well, with Wii U VC, we'll be back to that 15 number...in 6 years!
Wii U is on something like day -90 of VC.
WrenchNinja
Member
Its not like theyve shown any improvement on the 3DS front. Doesnt seem that unlikely that theyll drip it out all over again.
Wii VC was the original release and doesn't apply to a re-release schedule. After all, these are just ROM dumps with 5-minute software tweaks, if some are to be believed. So they'd sit on all that just... cuz?
And since I don't see GB games being released on anything but 3DS, that's not a re-release scenario either and is again not comparable.
If you use evidence, it has to be comparable. Otherwise, it's like saying all fruit is yellow because bananas are.
if you line up Wii and Wii U's launch, there were already 2 N64 titles available at this point for Wii.
They haven't even ANNOUCNED N64 support yet.
Fox Mulder
Member
They might put some GameCube up on VC, but they may also choose a few and remake them like Wind Waker. There's also the issue of the WiiU lacking GameCube controller ports and a controller option with analog triggers.
I wouldn't let Nintendo's VC plans impact your collecting. There will be a large amount of classics or great third party titles from both consoles they'll never get to put up there anyways.
BruiserBear
Banned
They were just ROM dumps on the Wii, and that didn't stop them from dripping out the releases over years. They were also just ROM dumps on the 3DS, and that hasn't stopped them from dripping out NES and SNES games over the past year.
There is absolutely no reason to believe things will be any different for the U.
ImpassionateGods
Member
Okay so I haven't been keeping up with this thread, but if nintendo is offering off-tv play for titles transferred from the wii, doesn't that imply that all these titles will immediately be available on the virtual console?
Pancakes R Us
Member
I feel your pain. It's just Nintendo. This is how fucked up the company can often be. They make some of the best games available but then do stupid shit and have dumb policies that make things difficult for them. If the original Wii digital offering/system wasn't so locked/hard up in terms of being locked to consoles or whatever other crazy-arse DRM they added, shit like this may not have happened.
Or Sega Master System support. Or Sega Genesis support. Or Turbografx-16 support. Or NeoGeo support. Or Arcade support. Or Commodore 64 Support. Or MSX support.
And yet people think Nintendo will bring Gamecube to the system, because Reggie said he'd like to see it. Right.
No, it implies that when Nintendo releases the Wii U version, then you will be able to pay Nintendo to upgrade your title. Which means that there is a good possibility some games will never be upgraded, and that we'll be stuck with Wii mode for the life of the console.
Nintendo - you taught me how to love and hate, at the same time.
Edit: derp, sorry for two posts in a row. Really, there's no delete post option?
jetsetfluken
Member
I want to touch on the "Durango/Orbis won't be compatible with the XBLA/PSN library because different chips" camp.
Look at PC gaming. Will a PC with the highest-end Intel processor and a PC with the highest-end AMD processor be able to run the same game? Absolutely.
Add to the fact that a large potion of these digital games are multi-platform, running on both PS3 and 360 (and PC) relatively exactly the same. And what? They have different chips and architectures, however similar they may be? Yes, they do, and yes, they run on both.
Chips and architectures aren't "exclusive" and can only run certain games. Sure, there might be trouble making a retail PS3-exclusive that was built from the ground up on PS3 to run on 360, but these next generation consoles will both be powerful enough to handle anything that was available on current generation XBLA/PSN, and can be "carried over" with ease.
They are not called "Xbox 360 Live Arcade" games. They are called "Xbox Live Arcade" games. Part of the current philosophy of the Xbox brand is unification across platforms. Not to say that Windows Phone 8 games are playable on 360, but we are talking about their home console platforms and the future of it.
So absolutely, Sony and Microsoft won't throw out all the money they invested in building up their digital libraries. They'll all be playable.
And on-topic, is Nintendo's Wii VC and WiiWare library completely playable on their new Wii U? Absolutely. But due to financial milking and other reasons, they have chosen not to make their back catalog available on the new console's interface (only hidden in an emulator of the Wii).
Compiled versus uncompiled code.
Intel and AMD both use the same instruction sets, so that's irrelevant.
Look at x86, PowerPC, and ARM. If running code on different processors wasn't a big deal, Microsoft wouldn't have any problems with ARM based surface tablets not being able to run most Windows software, even in desktop mode. Programs have to be specifically written for each type of processor in the PC world.
When Apple switched over to Intel, they had software that allowed PowerPC software to run on x86 machines, but it was far slower than native code. On gaming consoles, you can't change how fast chips are running or everything would break.
Basically, if there's an easy solution for BC that MS and Sony could use, companies wouldn't be having so much trouble with different architecture, and we would have ARM based laptops for a few years now.
you know.... someone brought up Super Metroid being availalbe during the 30-30-30 sale in June, and that could mean Nintendo will announce Prime 4 at E3....
got me thinking....
why are FZero and Super Metroid even on the 30-30-30 sale? It's the NES's 30th birthday and those games came out on SNES...
FZero U announcment in March!
got me thinking....
why are FZero and Super Metroid even on the 30-30-30 sale? It's the NES's 30th birthday and those games came out on SNES...
FZero U announcment in March!
jetsetfluken
Member
Yes, but I was trying to stress the difference between little PSN/XBLA games and big built-from-the-ground-up retail exclusives (Uncharted, etc). There is a difference because those digital, mostly multi-platform games, are not built or depend on using technology exclusive to the console's architecture. And when they are exclusive, it is almost every time because of publisher funding/ownership or simply publisher-specific platform preference due to the platform's economic climate for digital releases, rather than not being able to run on the other console. More simply, what I'm saying is that almost every piece of content on XBLA/PSN could run on the other console (and PC, which many of them have ports for - and the next consoles are ultimately modified PCs, as PS3/360) exactly the same. The only exceptions are titles with Kinect or Move novelties, but that's obvious why those are exclusive. Not because of technical reasons, but accessories.
So yes, there might be indecision whether retail PS3/360 games will work on the next consoles, but digital PSN/XBLA are a different story for the most part. I have confidence those will be playable due to the money invested, by Sony/MS and the customer, in building their libraries over years alone. Retail discs are another factor, but I have a hunch those will work too.
Fox Mulder
Member
well FZero, Balloon Fight, and Metroid were all in Nintendoland, so maybe Nintendo is prepping them for new releases, or maybe they just felt like throwing some random stuff out for the WiiU VC.
Hopefully they release more than one game a month even with the 30 cent promo games.
The bolded weren't supported until a few years or so later if I'm not mistaken...
But yeah I'm really worried about the VC support on this system too. They did a poor job with the 3DS' VC... at least in America :/
Wiz
Member
I want to know who's in charge of the VC releases and why they thought it was a good idea to not bring VC saves over from the Wii. The hell?
Also just echoing the thoughts of others in this thread, but yeah, the Virtual Console is Nintendo's biggest and easiest cash grabber and they just are failing at releasing content in a timely and effecient manner. I will withhold further judgement until we see what the Wii U schedule will look like but I'm not hopeful...when people want to throw money at you, listen to them!
Also just echoing the thoughts of others in this thread, but yeah, the Virtual Console is Nintendo's biggest and easiest cash grabber and they just are failing at releasing content in a timely and effecient manner. I will withhold further judgement until we see what the Wii U schedule will look like but I'm not hopeful...when people want to throw money at you, listen to them!
Well, in Japan, there are three SNES games: Fire Emblem, Mother 2, and Super Metroid. I do find it odd that they're in the NES sale as well, but I'm not complaining.
I really think it's insane to assume that Xbox 360 and PS3 software is going to be backwards compatible out of the box with the next generation of Sony and Microsoft consoles. Number one, it's clear that the new machines have new architecture that makes that hard. Number two, the current machines are nowhere near the level of being able to be produced "on a chip" the way PS2 or PSX were when Sony introduced their successors. Also, Microsoft struggled with Xbox softtware on Xbox 360 and much of the library went unemulated on 360.
To come into a Nintendo thread about Wii U and throw around how you think Sony and Microsoft got this figured out is just silly because Nintendo has made ALL Wii software work including Virtual Console. The only thing they haven't done is made it work in the Wii U interface or on the gamepad. You might like to have that too, but that's something extra you're asking for, not basic functionality. Nintendo is ahead of the game on this one and likely will remain so.
To come into a Nintendo thread about Wii U and throw around how you think Sony and Microsoft got this figured out is just silly because Nintendo has made ALL Wii software work including Virtual Console. The only thing they haven't done is made it work in the Wii U interface or on the gamepad. You might like to have that too, but that's something extra you're asking for, not basic functionality. Nintendo is ahead of the game on this one and likely will remain so.
BC is the most interesting thing to me about Sony and Microsoft's next offerings. Like you said, it's really foolish to assume amazing BC right away, without major stumbling blocks. I'm interested to see all the digital content come over too compatibility wise. I wonder if there will be as large an outcry when they don't launch with perfect BC for content.
H_Prestige
Banned
How is it extra when you've already paid for the Wii U and the ROM?
Nintendo's handling of VC and Wii BC is pure garbage. They should not be held as the gold standard.
I've spent a fortune on the original classics back then. And I've spent a not-inconsiderable amount on the convenience of having those classics playable on the Wii and on the 3DS. The titles available on the Wii and on the 3DS don't overlap, even though they easily could have (like being able to play the same PS1 classics on both the PS3 and PSP/PSV). FINE. But having to spend even more money on the SAME games bought on the Wii/3DS is pushing it for me. I have the disposable income, and I do want to be able to play the classics on the WiiU, but just because I have the money doesn't mean I don't think like this is a bad deal (even with the discount).
Give me value for my money. Let me buy a videogame oldie and have it playable on my Wii/WiiU and 3DS. Implement a proper account system so I don't lose games or have to jump through hoops to keep them when I replace systems (I have 2 stuck pixels on my 3DS XL which I sent in and which Nintendo didn't fix because they couldn't find an issue; thanks guys!). Do that and I'll be happily buying lots of VC games (oh yeah, don't trickle that shit; open the damn floodgates. If I bought it on the Wii, I want to immediately be able to download and play it on the WiiU).
Give me value for my money. Let me buy a videogame oldie and have it playable on my Wii/WiiU and 3DS. Implement a proper account system so I don't lose games or have to jump through hoops to keep them when I replace systems (I have 2 stuck pixels on my 3DS XL which I sent in and which Nintendo didn't fix because they couldn't find an issue; thanks guys!). Do that and I'll be happily buying lots of VC games (oh yeah, don't trickle that shit; open the damn floodgates. If I bought it on the Wii, I want to immediately be able to download and play it on the WiiU).
BruiserBear
Banned
I never made any claims about Sony, only Microsoft. I believe they will offer full backwards compatibility with both XBLA and disc games.
I think there would be an even bigger outcry. Much bigger.
So you switch from arguing for historic precedent to arguing against it?
.... interesting.