zomgbbqftw
Banned
Not really. MS are going to have a huge part of the die dedicated to the 32MB ESRAM which is not cheap. It will eat into any savings they have made with a lesser GPU.
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VGLeaks: Durango GPU detailed
- Thread starter phosphor112
- Start date
Not really. MS are going to have a huge part of the die dedicated to the 32MB ESRAM which is not cheap. It will eat into any savings they have made with a lesser GPU.
Yeah, RAM is the big difference across the board. However it is one of the easiest to scale. Still Wii U really needs to free up some of the OS memory, even 512MB would be huge for Wii U, it could scale properly with the GPU vs XB3 at that point. Good news is they both have 32MB edram, and I don't expect the speed on Wii U's to be any slower, in fact it might end up faster.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
We need a baseline ie: wait till we see first and third party games on both.
Yes, and 7850 shares its bandwidth with a CPU on top of that. Or maybe 2.
Tripp Daily
Member
I don't think any type of analogy with the Wii U works as a comparison for either Sony or Microsoft. I think the Wii U has an identity problem that Nintendo failed to address. I think the time from the announcement (too soon) to realease (too late) was to far a gap to keep hype high and when the Wii U hit nobody really knew that a new console was on the market.
The Wii U in my mind is a stop gap console that will have a short cycle.
Can Crusher
Banned
Unless they are creating a device that is going to disrupt the market, they are going to lose a whole lot more than they will gain.
Like Snipes said, "Some motherfuckers are always trying to ice skate uphill."
shinra-bansho
Member
Equivocating the Wii's success to the PS2 or PS360's success is disingenuous.
The PS2 didn't reach 100M in the 6th gen because of SingStar and EyeToy. It did so because it had traditional third party support exceeding its contemporaries giving it a catalog of like 1000+ games. The audience didn't need to be lured by gimmicks. When those came they were simply additional revenue generating peripherals.
The expanded audience that drove the success of the Wii by and large didn't drive the success of the PS2.
And by and large the 360's success has been built on the same audience for traditional console games as the PS2. Kinect later simply allowed an extension of the lifecycle by drawing away marketshare from the Wii in the new expanded audience market - which has essentially collapsed anyway.
The PS2, PS3 and 360 had "casual gamers" sure. They have gamers that only get the annual COD or Madden or FIFA. But they're installed bases weren't built on the basis of a Wii like phenomena bringing in people who didn't previously play on consoles.
metalslimer
Member
I wonder if we could actually see a 299 base model Durango though.
No, I think it reads like a plain description of relevant points. Even if there's a lot of redundancy there relative to a GCN doc, they have to document their system properly.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
Illumiroom, camera, and windows 8 RT have several things that could aid the enjoyability of any game, and also are key features that could push the next Xbox to selling just as well or better than the 360.
Windows RT box, interfacing directly with my phone and my computer for sharing media and info (emails, texts, calls, web browsing, etc)? Yes please.
And having these features doesn't automatically disable dudebro shooters and hardcore violencefests from being on the console. It's when they're awkwardly forced that hinders the gaming experience, and developers/publishers have learned over the years that they can't force it. I don't think you have anything to worry about.
Yeah, I am sure Microsoft built a system that was half as powerful to the PS4 but somehow cost the same.
shinobi602
Member
I'm really not that worried. Why?
We're seeing stunning games like God of War: Ascension, Uncharted 3, Halo 4, Forza Horizon, Gears of War, GTA V, Bioshock: Infinite, etc on antique systems like the 360/PS3.
Orbis and Durango blow these away specs wise. Those games already make me go wow. I have no doubt we'll see some truly spectacular stuff next gen. People are being way too cynical.
The disclaimers on these posts are my favorite parts.
It's just so...
Well we already know you want Microsoft to die. xD
zomgbbqftw
Banned
In that case we will see if Sony takes the plunge and goes for 16x 4Gb chips.
If they don't what this development does do is remove Microsoft's cost advantage by going for cheaper DDR3. I was under the impression that 4Gb GDDR5 was still 6 months to a year away, but this changes everything for Sony.
It is now possible that Sony will have a better console that is the same or less to produce, if they can secure a decent supply of 4Gb GDDR5 chips.
Mr.Wreckless
Banned
If MS continues to let me stream HBO Go and Watch ESPN ill buy one over the PS4. You would be surprised by how many people use that Watch ESPN app.
SneakyStephan
Banned
The performance gap between 7770 and 7850 is huge on pc...
It's as large as the gap between a hd4870 and a hd6870. Amd naming is retarded.
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
Personally I was hoping for system parity like the 360 vs PS4. Hopefully the PS4 has a much better controller or I'm gonna be pissed. Decisions, decisions for multi-plats.
As someone who also owns a gaming PC, it's the games that keep my interest.
If proper hardware can make Naughty Dog go balls-out on another brand-new IP, then i'm sold on day one.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Yes afaik. And it is supposed to be a "monster" SoC too. But the CPU/GPU seem quite small so who knows what else besides the eSRAM makes it so big?
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
Why are people even mentioning Illumiroom, it would require a whole separate EXPENSIVE projector at least a couple of hundred £/$, there is no way they would be able to afford to include it and it would hardly sell very well if it cost as much as the console itself just to have pretty lights on the wall around the TV.
Tripp Daily
Member
I know next to nothing about the Sun and how big of a publication it may be. I'm talking more along the lines of morning shows and primetime news channels that your everyday US family and parent watch.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
That's what happens when you go for weird architecture. Sony learned that painful lesson with PS3, which has cost more throughout its existence for a similar end product. Notice that Sony have gone with a fully off the shelf architecture this time.
They did it so they could have 3 gigs of ram for OS/kinect 2.0//non gaming stuff. It be interesting what the core gamers do now. Do they treat MS like they did nintendo this time around and give them them the middle finger or forgive em and still buy the under powered next xbox.
Can Crusher
Banned
This is where it gets hard to see the forest beyond the threes. People looking to buy these systems on launch and in the first year or two will be gamers. Harcore gamers that are looking to purchase a next generation system that will deliver "next gen" games.
So in the 1st year or 2, it's very important that your core audience is convinced by the capabilities of the system to provide those next gen games. When 2 companies are releasing systems at the same time, competing for the same crowd, it stands to reason that the main point of comparison will be always related to the main appeal (games).
See if the most appealing part of a videogame console was the non gaming features it possesses, then none of these systems would make sense to begin with.
So, the only way out of a H2H situation where you lose is...either have the biggest franchises out there coming out at least timed exclusive to your system, or offer a much cheaper alternative to the competition.
Initial purchases are made by savvy consumers, it's only later that word of mouth and market awareness allow you to expand.
You don't start a race from mile 10, you start from 0. And this time around MS doesn't even have a headstart, so they can't count on being the "available next gen system".
Teletraan1
Banned
It will run win8 like a win8 phone does. It doesn't mean that there will be a full featured desktop OS since there is no point in that.
You are lttp. From leaks Sony choose 4GB GDDR5 because 512MB chips were going into production right now. TL;DR They already using it (if leaks are true)
That is pure fantasy.
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
I doubt this system will be a full 100 dollars less to produce than the PS4, but even 25 dollars less when you sell 50-100m of these things is huge.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
Right but a lot of folks seem to make a connection of '3gb of ram for os means Durango is running Win8'.
Like it is some kind of confirmation of the 3GB RAM OS.
phosphor112
Banned
Oh shit... Hmm... totally forgot about that. SOC would give even more of an edge for Orbis...
Even hardcore gamers know that hardware is nothing without good software(not referring to games.) to run on it.
Already did a couple pages back.
The problem is you're using current games to base expectations for next gen, when if there is a system with a noticeable advantage you're going to get an even bigger leap with the exclusive games. So then your expectations will be set on those games and the other system won't live up to it.
McHuj
Member
Depends on what's your definition of huge.
It's enough to double the frame rate, but not enough, imo, to run a noticeably different/more sophisticated game engine.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Yeah but DC>>PS2>>>>>Xbox>GCN
they was more powerful for obvious reasons, Sony didn't "Wii" it with the PS2, it was powerful for the time and aged fast as tech does
that what I mean
gaming_noob
Member
Graphics really don't matter. Now excuse me while I sharpen my razer and roll up my sleeves
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
Higher resolution, higher model complexity, higher resolution textures, better lighting/effects, more fluid fps.
Graphics don't matter, it's all about that vast stable of first party titles from Microsoft.
Any link to source ? (leak ?) I mean i didn't see anywhere SoC mentioned for Durango (but it is possible) and i am preatty sure i didn't miss anything.
Agreed entirely, which is why I've argued before that it couldn't be done. Cater to the core early on and as the price of your console drops, branch off into a wider market.
Why they would veer from such an established strategy is difficult to understand.
metareferential
Member
Isn't it kind of strange seeing Microsoft come up with a more complex architecture? At least that's what it seems to me.
If those 8gb of ram were DDR5, how will the console compare then?
If those 8gb of ram were DDR5, how will the console compare then?
zomgbbqftw
Banned
It really isn't. 32MB ESRAM won't come cheap, in fact it will be very expensive and lower yields as it needs to be on-die. The GDDR5 cost disadvantage goes away with 4Gb chips as it roughly halves the cost for Sony as they now buy 8 chips for a slightly higher unit cost than 16 of slightly lesser unit cost.
You can remain in denial as much as you like but it looks like MS have been out done this time around. Sony learned a hard lesson with PS3, don't use custom made parts, they cost too much to produce and they are hard to utilise. It shows with everything we have learned about Orbis.
That's what I'm thinking; MS may be able to undercut Sony's MSRP by $50-$100 depending on SKU variations, which would leave Sony as the perceptually "overpriced" console of the three.
Exactly, let's think at 3 or 4 years from now.
Of course right now anything looks great, but in time your expectations will have new standards.
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