• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Halo |OT14| They call it Halo

Nebula

Member
I just can't play Slayer Pro. No radar is killing me. I've never been a fan of no radar and this gametype would be perfect if it did have radar. Anyway I'm enjoying Doubles a lot. Nice to see some weapons on map and people actually fighting for map control. Liking the alterations to the on disc maps also.

Nice playlist update overall.
 

Overdoziz

Banned
I just can't play Slayer Pro. No radar is killing me. I've never been a fan of no radar and this gametype would be perfect if it did have radar. Anyway I'm enjoying Doubles a lot. Nice to see some weapons on map and people actually fighting for map control. Liking the alterations to the on disc maps also.

Nice playlist update overall.
Radar has no place in doubles.
 
PS3 was more powerful too. Who cares about the e-peen measuring? The other things you mention matter far more.

Yes but due to PS3's architecture it was very difficult to utilise the theoretical power. If rumours are to be beleived, PS4 will be friendlier to develope for with good support from Sony this time around.
 

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
Congratulations, you have a different opinion.
e5eF2hq.png
 

Fracas

#fuckonami
Has the PS3 even been pushed to its limit yet? I consider God of War/Killzone/Uncharted 3 to be the best looking games on the system, and those were released in 2010-2011.

I still cannot believe how good PS3 exclusives can look. Just imagine if it was easier to develop for. Halo 4 would look the way it does, maybe even better, all at >30 fps.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
Congrats you can post an image.


Seriously I'm not getting where you're goin with this. I think that Bear is a good writer and I've generally enjoyed his work on Halo. You clearly disagree, but I'm not seeing the use of a "this sucks" comment with no substance.
 
Radar has no place in doubles.

Sure it does. Maybe not for you and the rest of the elitist crowd but Radar has a place in every Halo Gametype. Its been in Halo since its inception and you may not like it but many others do.

You can say what you want in regards to the people who like radar being scrubs ect but ultimately its a perfectly valid play style.

Games without radar tend to make people play with more caution and make games slower and that is not always a bad thing ill agree but it's also not always a good thing.

I can play Halo with or without radar but its a valuable tool for a great deal of people.
 
All I'm trying to say, is, that the consoles will be most likely very similiar. There is no way, that Microsoft will give away it's lead over the console market just like that. At least, I hope so.

How would they be "giving away" their lead, necessarily? There's still a lot we don't know in terms of hardware pricing, features, and software.

From the way it's looking right now, the Orbis will be beefier than the Durango under the hood. The difference will be a bit bigger than the difference between the PS3 and 360, but it's not going to be night and day, either.

To make a car analogy: people are freaking out because they know that car A has more horses under the hood than car B. But we still don't know anything else about the cars. It could still turn out that car B costs less, is better-looking, and has a more comfortable interior with better features all over the place.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
Sure it does. Maybe not for you and the rest of the elitist crowd but Radar has a place in every Halo Gametype. Its been in Halo since its inception and you may not like it but many others do.

You can say what you want in regards to the people who like radar being scrubs ect but ultimately its a perfectly valid play style.

Games without radar tend to make people play more with more caution and make games slower and that is not always a bad thing ill agree but it's also not always a good thing.

I can play Halo with or without radar but its a valuable tool for a great deal of people.

I can see valid arguments for the presence of motion trackers both slowing and speeding up the game. I can see it facilitating camping more often in pub games but I think competitive players are a different beast.
Ohh, boy. This page.

Dammit OddOne I thought we swore less metacommentary :p
 

Overdoziz

Banned
Sure it does. Maybe not for you and the rest of the elitist crowd but Radar has a place in every Halo Gametype. Its been in Halo since its inception and you may not like it but many others do.

You can say what you want in regards to the people who like radar being scrubs ect but ultimately its a perfectly valid play style.

Games without radar tend to make people play more with more caution and make games slower and that is not always a bad thing ill agree but it's also not always a good thing.

I can play Halo with or without radar but its a valuable tool for a great deal of people.
What the fuck are you talking about? Elitist? Yes, I prefer having no radar in my Halo, but I can deal with it in 4v4 or 8v8 or whatever, but in 2v2 it can absolutely ruin any sort of movement around the map. That has nothing to do with it being competitively viable or not, it has to do with discouraging camping behavior which has always been a big problem in 2v2 playlists because of the radar. For a team that really wants to win sitting in a corner looking at their radar (preferably near a power weapon spawn) is a strategy that's simply too effective.
 
What the fuck are you talking about? Elitist?
The elitist halo crowd the people who because they have a higher level of skill believe they speak for an entire community of players shit on radar at every chance they get.

That has nothing to do with it being competitively viable or not, it has to do with discouraging camping behavior which has always been a big problem in 2v2 playlists because of the radar. For a team that really wants to win sitting in a corner looking at their radar (preferably near a power weapon spawn) is a strategy that's simply too effective.

Sitting in a room once you have the lead works with or without radar. Sure its easier to defend an area with radar and ill agree in hyper competitive 2v2 playlists Radar can be a detriment to this but you said that Radar has no place in 2v2 and I disagree. Radar can make good players better its inclusion does not suddenly turn everyone into campers they will do that with or without radar its the mentality of the person.
 

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
Congrats you can post an image.

Seriously I'm not getting where you're goin with this. I think that Bear is a good writer and I've generally enjoyed his work on Halo. You clearly disagree, but I'm not seeing the use of a "this sucks" comment with no substance.
Please, I do not wish to cause any kind of long-lasting offense. Though when you stated your opinion of excitement, I merely expressed my equally valid yet opposite opinion.

I am however curious as to why you found any aspect of what you described as interesting. It's certainly not an area one would have expected the books to go, I am reminded of another user having stated that the books and the franchise seem to be trending towards science fantasy over science fiction. Do you prefer this direction?
 
Half-life called... lol
Looks like a sweet design. Would definitely make for an interesting twist on Grifball.


Hnngg..



I tried Solari earlier. Best CTF match of my life. I like Solari a LOT more than Solace. My only complaint is that the lift/beam in the middle is kinda hard to predict. I had a tendency to catch the edge of it while I was trying to run by and get thrown back. Is there a crate or two left in the budget that could block that?

The similarities are only cosmetic in nature. It's more like the Grapple Beam meets the Bulletstorm whip meets the "ghosty grabby hand from Darksiders," apparently. It automatically pulls objects towards you with physics-based trajectories, can lock enemies in place (even vertically - but it only restricts motion, meaning they have a clear shot on you in one-on-one encounters), and you can use it to zipline towards dynamic, placeable Hardlight hooks, designed as a vertical movement replacement to the Jet Pack.
 

Overdoziz

Banned
Sitting in a room once you have the lead works with or without radar. Sure its easier to defend an area with radar and ill agree in hyper competitive 2v2 playlists Radar can be a detriment to this but you said that Radar has no place in 2v2 and I disagree. Radar can make good players better its inclusion does not suddenly turn everyone into campers they will do that with or without radar its the mentality of the person.
I'm sure people who camp a lot will still camp, but I'm talking about how effective that strategy is. With radar you can easily see people coming which makes it much easier to get a jump on them. Without radar you're just kind of waiting for them to come into your view which makes the strategy it much less effective overall. I'd much rather the settings discourage that kind of gameplay than depend on the players' mindset in the hope that it doesn't happen.
 

Gordon

Member
The similarities are only cosmetic in nature. It's more like the Grapple Beam meets the Bulletstorm whip meets the "ghosty grabby hand from Darksiders," apparently. It automatically pulls objects towards you with physics-based trajectories, can lock enemies in place (even vertically - but it only restricts motion, meaning they have a clear shot on you in one-on-one encounters), and you can use it to zipline towards dynamic, placeable Hardlight hooks, designed as a vertical movement replacement to the Jet Pack.
Oh. My. God. I can't believe I never thought of that. A grappling hook/zipline to replace the jetpack - that's perfect. You could completely control where JP is usable. I sincerely hope 343 steals your idea, only because it could very well kill the jetpack, and that would be a victory for everybody. Except the JP/AR fans, who I hope all fall to their deaths.

I'm sure people who camp a lot will still camp, but I'm talking about how effective that strategy is. With radar you can easily see people coming which makes it much easier to get a jump on them. Without radar you're just kind of waiting for them to come into your view which makes the strategy it much less effective overall. I'd much rather the settings discourage that kind of gameplay than depend on the players' mindset in the hope that it doesn't happen.
To be fair, radar does favor crouch-walking, which is admittedly a mixed blessing, but is still an additional aspect of depth for player movement.
 

Nebula

Member
No radar makes me play incredibly slowly and ultimately bores me. I'm not at the level I was in Halo 3 where I could turn on someone and land shots and maybe pull a kill but now I can barely manage to land my aim on the turn on. With radar I play a lot more aggressively and find it more fun.

Also Slayer Pro is glitched. From the looks of it either host can't choose a loadout or people off host can't. That or it randomly decides a player can't choose a loadout.
 

wwm0nkey

Member
So apparently one of those Steam leaks just got confirmed.


Soooo when do you guys think we will see the original trilogy pop up on Steam? Assuming it doesn't end up like FF7.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
Please, I do not wish to cause any kind of long-lasting offense. Though when you stated your opinion of excitement, I merely expressed my equally valid yet opposite opinion.

I am however curious as to why you found any aspect of what you described as interesting. It's certainly not an area one would have expected the books to go, I am reminded of another user having stated that the books and the franchise seem to be trending towards science fantasy over science fiction. Do you prefer this direction?

Bear's Forerunner books were always trending towards what you could term "science fantasy", and there's nothing wrong with that--all Forerunner tech is magic and always has been. Bear put more effort into rationalizing much of it than Bungie ever did. There's the separate issue of whether character actions or plot developments feel like deus ex machina or contrived, which I likewise don't feel about Bear's work (although I think some of it found its way into Halo 4, with the weakly explained as confusing Librarian exposition.)
 
The Forge Playtest is designed to test maps of specific categories. The initial test was for compact 4v4 & 2v2. It also served as a feasibility study to determine if this form of community map release works better than dropping unfamiliar maps into existing playlists. I don't have access to the data but from my observations it seems that inviting players to play on new maps with the intention of seeking their feedback works way better than shoving maps down their throats without notice.

It is also nice to see builders actively participating in their feedback threads. Some very substantial updates have been suggested by players who would previously resort to forum bitching to have their complaints heard. Now they have the power to improve their experiences directly.

There may be future Forge Playtests to assess maps in other categories.

My disappointment mostly stems from the fact that the regular 4v4 map rotations are starved of variety.

Bolded also seems very true. It seems like when people are looking for new things they don't mind new maps, but they don't like new maps just being dropped into the playlist.
 
You know I am surprised that Master Chief is not in charge of the Spartan IV's. That would be the best thing story wise. He was always in charge of the Spartan II's. I know Palmer is referred to as Commander but surely she would not out rank Chief.

Right?
 

Fuchsdh

Member
My disappointment mostly stems from the fact that the regular 4v4 map rotations are starved of variety.

Bolded also seems very true. It seems like when people are looking for new things they don't mind new maps, but they don't like new maps just being dropped into the playlist.

Hopefully the next map pack and introduction of more Forge maps will ameliorate that issue by month's end.

You know I am surprised that Master Chief is not in charge of the Spartan IV's. That would be the best thing story wise. He was always in charge of the Spartan II's. I know Palmer is referred to as Commander but surely she would not out rank Chief.

Right?

MCPO is the highest NC rank in the modern Navy. She's an officer, of course she outranks him. That said I don't think many officers would go out of their way to antagonize a Chief, and since this one has single handed ly saved humanity a half-dozen times I think most officers would give him some deference beyond his rank.
 

Gordon

Member
DMR has no place in doubles. Feels overpowered even at close range against the BR
It would be nice if they sorta 'themed' maps, with some maps using BR, others using DMR, and others using LR or Carbines. That would be an entertaining experience, while still being balanced and paying some attention to the rest of the sandbox.
If gametypes could override your primary and secondary, but still let you use the rest of a given custom loadout, that would be interesting.
 

Karl2177

Member
Hopefully the next map pack and introduction of more Forge maps will ameliorate that issue by month's end.



MCPO is the highest NC rank in the modern Navy. She's an officer, of course she outranks him. That said I don't think many officers would go out of their way to antagonize a Chief, and since this one has single handed ly saved humanity a half-dozen times I think most officers would give him some deference beyond his rank.

"I'm the moron captain of the UNSC Infinity. Arrest that man!"
 

heckfu

Banned
It would be nice if they sorta 'themed' maps, with some maps using BR, others using DMR, and others using LR or Carbines. That would be an entertaining experience, while still being balanced and paying some attention to the rest of the sandbox.
If gametypes could override your primary and secondary, but still let you use the rest of a given custom loadout, that would be interesting.

That's single-handedly one of the worst ideas to ever be posted in this forum.
 

TheOddOne

Member
You know, this is going to sound a bit irrational and asking just a little too much, but 3 maps per map pack is really paltry. I’m not comparing it to other games, but on its own it really just doesn’t feel like it’s substantial and promotes enough for people to come back to the game. The sweet spot is four maps, five maps would be fantastic and above that is just pure fan service. I know, I know, development realities and all, but it would be nice.
 

Akai__

Member
Hardlight Shield has also no place in Doubles. It is completely trash and it almost annoys me, like Armor Lock did. Same for Jetpack.
 
You know, this is going to sound a bit irrational and asking just a little too much, but 3 maps per map pack is really paltry. I’m not comparing it to other games, but on its own it really just doesn’t feel like it’s substantial and promotes enough for people to come back to the game. The sweet spot is four maps, five maps would be fantastic and above that is just pure fan service. I know, I know, development realities and all, but it would be nice.
It would be really nice if dev studios didn't outsource the DLC to other studios.
Nobody knows your game as well as your designers, and the quality of DLC is almost always worse than the original.

DICE does a wonderful job with Battlefield 3 DLC.
You get 4 huge maps and more game content (weapons, vehicles, customization options).

Treyarch has stepped up the expectations for COD as well with their Revolution map pack..
4 maps, a new gun, a zombies map, and a zombies game mode.
 

Overdoziz

Banned
You know, this is going to sound a bit irrational and asking just a little too much, but 3 maps per map pack is really paltry. I’m not comparing it to other games, but on its own it really just doesn’t feel like it’s substantial and promotes enough for people to come back to the game. The sweet spot is four maps, five maps would be fantastic and above that is just pure fan service. I know, I know, development realities and all, but it would be nice.
The way DICE does it is pretty amazing:

- Remake map pack
- Close quarters map pack
- Vehicle-centric map pack
- Infantry/Vehicle (medium sized maps) map pack

It's great because you can simply buy the map packs that support the type of play you like the most. I don't care much for close quarter infantry combat in BF3 so I didn't buy the Close Quarters map pack. I do enjoy medium and large sized maps, especially if they mix infantry and vehicles well, so I did buy the other map packs. 343 should stop mixing small ('small'), medium and large maps and just release themed map packs. It prevents people from getting stuck with a Firefight map they'll never play and it allows 343 to create a DLC playlist which is more focused around one type of gameplay instead of trying to mix all sorts of differently sized maps and their gametypes.

Edit: God dammit Garret
 

Gordon

Member
That's single-handedly one of the worst ideas to ever be posted in this forum.
I don't see why. I mean, other than Carbine Slayer being slow. Obviously DMR Slayer and BR Slayer would be the preferred options, with the alien variants being outliers, but gametypes like that tied to maps that play them well would be nice. I'm not saying exclusively, but as options. I'm sure Infinity Slayer isn't going anywhere.
Edit: 'Theming' probably isn't the best word. 'Choosing gametypes suited to the individual maps' is probably a lot clearer.
 
You know, this is going to sound a bit irrational and asking just a little too much, but 3 maps per map pack is really paltry. I’m not comparing it to other games, but on its own it really just doesn’t feel like it’s substantial and promotes enough for people to come back to the game. The sweet spot is four maps, five maps would be fantastic and above that is just pure fan service. I know, I know, development realities and all, but it would be nice.

Wanna know what the sweet spot is? Dedicated custom servers with mod browser. Unreal Tournament III PS3 was great fun because of that. Mods in Halo would be great, the game is perfect for that if you look at what kind of stuff people come up with, with the limited toolset of Forge.
Who am I kidding, no publiser will ever abondon paid MP maps. I haven't even opened/ used my Halo 4 LE content yet, just the game. I regret buying it.
 

Nebula

Member
DMR has no place in doubles. Feels overpowered even at close range against the BR

I'm trying the LightRifle out at the moment as I'm trying to do the Forerunner loadout mastery and it gets destroyed by the DMR. The LightRifle does what the DMR should do which is take care of business at long range and still be usable up close, but not dominate in CQC.

Honestly wish the DMR would become on map or ordnance only.

Also just got a pretty cool Sticky Det double on Haven. Capping it now.
 

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
Bear's Forerunner books were always trending towards what you could term "science fantasy", and there's nothing wrong with that--all Forerunner tech is magic and always has been. Bear put more effort into rationalizing much of it than Bungie ever did. There's the separate issue of whether character actions or plot developments feel like deus ex machina or contrived, which I likewise don't feel about Bear's work (although I think some of it found its way into Halo 4, with the weakly explained as confusing Librarian exposition.)
I suppose that was in part because it served as backdrop in prior Halo's and now its moved to the forefront. I'm not particularly fond of it, but not much I can do, they've clearly decided their direction for the new trilogy. I'll still be disappointed if they decide to rehash covenant/flood without changing things up.
 

TheOddOne

Member
It would be really nice if dev studios didn't outsource the DLC to other studios.
Nobody knows your game as well as your designers, and the quality of DLC is almost always worse than the original.

DICE does a wonderful job with Battlefield 3 DLC.
You get 4 huge maps and more game content (weapons, vehicles, customization options).

Treyarch has stepped up the expectations for COD as well with their Revolution map pack..
4 maps, a new gun, a zombies map, and a zombies game mode.

The way DICE does it is pretty amazing:

- Remake map pack
- Close quarters map pack
- Vehicle-centric map pack
- Infantry/Vehicle (medium sized maps) map pack

It's great because you can simply buy the map packs that support the type of play you like the most. I don't care much for close quarter infantry combat in BF3 so I didn't buy the Close Quarters map pack. I do enjoy medium and large sized maps, especially if they mix infantry and vehicles well, so I did buy the other map packs. 343 should stop mixing small ('small'), medium and large maps and just release themed map packs. It prevents people from getting stuck with a Firefight map they'll never play and it allows 343 to create a DLC playlist which is more focused around one type of gameplay instead of trying to mix all sorts of differently sized maps and their gametypes.

Edit: God dammit Garret

Wanna know what the sweet spot is? Dedicated custom servers with mod browser. Unreal Tournament III PS3 was great fun because of that. Mods in Halo would be great, the game is perfect for that if you look at what kind of stuff people come up with, with the limited toolset of Forge.
Who am I kidding, no publiser will ever abondon paid MP maps. I haven't even opened/ used my Halo 4 LE content yet, just the game. I regret buying it.
Man, 343 it's time to listen and learn. We want to love you, but you are making it hard to :(
 
My opinion on the whole science fantasy thing:

To start off I want to go ahead and say I think Halsey's Journal from Reach was the epitome of Halo writing, especially because it went so far out of its way to bridge some connections and tie up loose ends. Scientific explanations were concise and didn't rely too heavily on real-world fact or fiction when tech was unrealistic. For example, it illustrates the mechanics behind a Jackal Shield: it's made up of three parts. The gauntlet, a middle portion (labeled "power source?") and the shield generator itself. It utilizes a very basic magnetic field to project a plasma-based energy shield, much like the Energy Sword. The brilliance is in its simplicity: it's a lone magnetic field. Two poles, all in a radial or elliptical shape, which is why the shields are just a basic circle. The magnetic poles account for the small holes on the shield in the games.

It goes into some trickier tech, too; Halsey examines a Plasma Repeater, if I'm remembering right. She goes on to explain that the Covenant deliberately don't want people modifying their tech - weapons disassembled for examination tended to explode violently to prevent tampering. She also points out that, mechanically, their guns don't make any sense - on the inside, things like batteries, ammo pools and heat sinks aren't even visibly connected to firing mechanisms. It simply leaves the explanation at that. No convoluted attempt at justifying (MAGNETS BITCH, etc), no genesongs. It's a good way to illustrate that the Forerunner tech (which is the basis for all Covenant equipment) is just in a completely different league, illustrates their power, and still keeps them mysterious. Well done, Nylund.

By contrast, there's Greg Bear. When I think of Forerunner justifications, I was expecting something similar to how Metroid handles it. There's not too much physical science behind it, but the canon numbers that exist are extreme. High-density neutrino beams, semi-automatic explosive mortars operating on nuclear fission, plasma reduced to close to absolute zero kelvin to create Scattershot-like ice weapons.

I don't think the problem lies in the Forerunners being out of a fantasy novel; in-game, the Didact looks spectacular using 343's design philosophies. My first impression was that his suit looked a bit like the biosuit from Crysis if he were a paladin. This is to be expected, though. The Forerunners have almost always been treated as space hippies - powerful ones for sure, but space hippies nonetheless. I think the problem lies in the fact that we're treated to a few very foreign concepts that don't have any potential scientific backing by themselves. For example, look at Genesongs. The name alone brings to mind some more fantastic elements of fiction. It would only take a few lines to dissipate each of these complaints; instead of some basic statistical data, we're getting proverbs, which is where the issue stems from. For example.

"Out of the Didact's sight, I planted seeds. Your physical augmentation. Your combat skin. Even your Ancilla, Cortana. You are the culmination of a thousand years of planning."

If you leave audiences with just this line, suddenly Chief is space jesus. He's the chosen one, all of that. Yet all of these complaints can be rectified with just a little bit of science to the Librarian's apparent magic.

Chief: "Are you saying I was chosen for this?"

Librarian: "No, human. The Forerunners experimented heavily in genetic evolution and physical augmentation - mutation - to further enhance our abilities to combat the Flood. Much like the recruitment programs attempted by your race. Through what remaining power I held, I attempted to assure the survival of your degenerated race. We call them Genesongs. Seeded into the remaining specimens of your ancestors, I desperately hoped that some day the evolution would bear fruit - and I see now that it was successful. It offered humans another chance to rise and continue our legacy."

Chief: "And Halsey - were you responsible for her?"

Librarian: "She was simply fortunate enough to rise into a position of power, much as you did. There were thousands of lives before yours that showed potential - evidenced that our decisions were not all for naught - and thousands more will live and breathe with that same potential long after your purpose is fulfilled. You are simply the keystoke of your generation, and you will certainly not be the last."

Bam. It keeps the cryptic philosophy of the old forerunners, ensures Chief isn't space jesus, doesn't burn itself out trying to scientifically justify everything.

Oh, and 343? Keep the Didact's fucking helmet on for the entire trilogy if you wanted to keep at least a semblance of their mystery.
 
Top Bottom