-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
WiiU "Latte" GPU Die Photo - GPU Feature Set And Power Analysis
- Thread starter Thraktor
- Start date
- Status
Not long. Someone from Chipworks is going to help us out even further.
Chipworks are good people.
phosphor112
Banned
Anything about that. This thread isn't for that.
ColdBlooder
Banned
HUGE Big Ups for Chipworks. Seem to be really awesome people over there!
Yeah, I dont believe for a second that it is 20 ALUs.
showmethereceipts.gif
Until we get proof for the numbers thats where I stand.
i'm looking forward to a description with relatable details eventually, since i know absolutely nothing about this stuff
i really just want to know how awesome future Zelda and SMTxFE might look
i'm slightly comforted by the fact that this console might, as some previous posts have put it, exist in a sort of vacuum. i wouldn't want a WiiU for next-gen ports anyways - after the last generation that would be pretty foolish - so it'll be cool to find out what it can do within its own sphere.
i mean, that's what the handheld world has been like since it started. regardless of the power and flipflops and stuff, if the games are there it'll be worth a purchase in my eyes.
spec-talk seems fun and all, but i can't really be bothered to get upset or anything about it.
the final results will probably be "Mario and Zelda will look sweet on WiiU, LBP and God of War will look even sweeter on PS4"
btw, im not trying to say this analysis stuff is dumb or pointless - i actually think its awesome that you guys can figure this stuff out from a photo and im interested in the results - im just breaking up all the rehashed WiiU defense/hate with a post as a guy who honestly doesn't care much about the power, but doesn't have some weirdo agenda. i like Nintendo consoles, and i like Sony consoles, and i'll get both regardless of the specs.
kinda derailed, sorry.
edit: and of course, props to Chipworks for the generosity, and the guys doing the analyzing
i really just want to know how awesome future Zelda and SMTxFE might look
i'm slightly comforted by the fact that this console might, as some previous posts have put it, exist in a sort of vacuum. i wouldn't want a WiiU for next-gen ports anyways - after the last generation that would be pretty foolish - so it'll be cool to find out what it can do within its own sphere.
i mean, that's what the handheld world has been like since it started. regardless of the power and flipflops and stuff, if the games are there it'll be worth a purchase in my eyes.
spec-talk seems fun and all, but i can't really be bothered to get upset or anything about it.
the final results will probably be "Mario and Zelda will look sweet on WiiU, LBP and God of War will look even sweeter on PS4"
btw, im not trying to say this analysis stuff is dumb or pointless - i actually think its awesome that you guys can figure this stuff out from a photo and im interested in the results - im just breaking up all the rehashed WiiU defense/hate with a post as a guy who honestly doesn't care much about the power, but doesn't have some weirdo agenda. i like Nintendo consoles, and i like Sony consoles, and i'll get both regardless of the specs.
kinda derailed, sorry.
edit: and of course, props to Chipworks for the generosity, and the guys doing the analyzing
Yeah, and that's fine, but couple to a CPU that is admitedly worse and RAM undoubtedly much slower, that's doesn't really help.
Problem is, Nintendo's best teams have to now make the switch to new tech and HD graphics. 3rd parties won't bother making ports of last gen games look much better (even assuming they can) especially considering that soon the Ps4/720 will be out, and are obliterating WiiU's specs in every possible way.
So MAYBE the GPU is overall potentially better than the PS3's/360's, but by the time games actually looking better (if that's possible) come out, no one will give a shit anymore.
That is why it is paramount that Nintendo has something to show at E3 that looks spectacular.
I think there are actually 37MB of memory embedded in the GPU. The small eDRAM pool above MEM1 consists of four blocks, so that's most likely 4MB. And the 32 identical blocks in the top left corner should add up to 1MB of SRAM.
Not really. It's apparently made by Renesas (Chipworks thinks so as well), so almost definitely UX8 - 40nm CMOS. And I'm pretty sure it's manufactured at the Renesas Yamagata plant.
Schnozberry
Member
If all your assumptions are correct and everyone on the planet thinks just like you.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Art style will save them. Super Mario Galaxy 2 on Dolphin at 720p with AA looks pretty good. If that's the style they'll use. They won't have to try that hard.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Didn't they just said that they're are reestructuring to face the chalenge of HD development?
I doubt we'll see something really remarkable in this E3. The same way Capcom games are the standard on 3DS instead of Nintendo.
Again I always expected nintendo to be this dumb. My problem is how people have responded to an obvious thing they expected to change but hasn't now since they have started making 3d systems. Not a single one has been perfect for devs and it has costed them in many ways for different reasons. If nintendo won't change and devs won't change this is going to continue until nintendo is out of the industry it's that simple. This is both a development and hardware issue that is going to hurt them for quite sometime.
Technosteve
Banned
50% of the chip is Edram, my assumption is that this is a very weak processor
About the top left SRAM: its positioning is strange, but it almost has to be texture cache, right?
31%.
freezamite
Banned
No, they don't. On the HD4870 die shot the non alu count was at best as big as the alu+TMUs part (discounting pci-express logic and memory controller logic).
On this WiiU shot, even taking down the whole memory part, you have at least DOUBLE the area spent on those other things.
On the HD4870 die shot, those parts were the tesselator, some hardware texture compressors and stuff like that, which will be found in some way or another on the wiiU.
But there is still a lot of the die "free" for developers to use.
At the very best, we have had our first surprise when looking at the memory layout. It's 35MB of embebed memory instead of the 32MB originally presumed.
nordique
Member
Just look at all the presumptuous reactions to the Wii U GPU, and you'll find the link to your question
Well we know we will see EAD Tokyo's Mario game at E3. I would expect that to look good.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
As I've said from the beginning:
Nintendo is going to firmly position themselves halfway between console cycles. Weaker Wii U, then the next console being more powerful than Durango/Orbis and I fully expect it in 4-5 years with Durango/Orbis going 7 in their cycle.
Nintendo is going to firmly position themselves halfway between console cycles. Weaker Wii U, then the next console being more powerful than Durango/Orbis and I fully expect it in 4-5 years with Durango/Orbis going 7 in their cycle.
I would think so. It seems weird to me that they use a lot of eDRAM, then go and "waste" so much space on SRAM, though...
R10Neymarfan
Member
What does this mean for making a DolphinU?
Fourth Storm
Member
That was my thought. Is there any of the additional logic which might identify it as a cache?
Fourth Storm
Member
Perhaps they could not get the latency they needed to match Flipper w/ eDRAM. Or perhaps they just wanted some superfast RAM as an intermediate stage between texture units and the eDRAM (or main pool of DDR3 for that matter).
Do you really think that by the time games looking as good as/better than Sony's or Microsoft's best efforts on their current consoles come out, the whole "So is WiiU better or what" topic will get as much attention as it currently does?
phosphor112
Banned
32mb, with about 3 up top, so 35mb.
I think that's what you're talking about... right? eDRAM?
32 + 4 + 1, so 37MB. I guess.
this seems pretty likely i think
especially with Iwata's recent comments mentioning their ideas for next-next-gen
there's a clear Dreamcast comparison there, but Nintendo also has the handheld division (and stronger software sales than Sega, i assume) that could help them stay in the game if the WiiU flopped.
did they take that approach on purpose with the WiiU?
my guess is probably not, but it could be pretty interesting to have in-between consoles from them
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Given that high end PC rigs can have difficulty playing emulated Wii games at full speed. I'd say the prospects are remote.
ambientmystic
Member
This thread is one of the reasons why Neogaf is the premier gaming forum on the internet.
No BS, no hyperbole, just the facts laid bare for us to see.
Thanks to Thraktor, Durante and all the other great posters' efforts in the Wii U Tech Discussion thread and their efforts in making contact with Chipworks, this forum is one of the 1st places to reveal the indepth GPU micrograph of the Wii U.
No BS, no hyperbole, just the facts laid bare for us to see.
Thanks to Thraktor, Durante and all the other great posters' efforts in the Wii U Tech Discussion thread and their efforts in making contact with Chipworks, this forum is one of the 1st places to reveal the indepth GPU micrograph of the Wii U.
You don't get rid of your junior any quicker by kissing ass.
Schnozberry
Member
You were just referring to GAF? Well, then no. That conversation will likely end with this thread. I thought you were referring to the gaming market as a whole, which has proven time and time again that they care a lot less about graphics than enthusiasts.
Even when Wii had decent looking titles compared to the generation before it didn't change peoples mind. Nope not in the least bit those who wish to hate nitnendo on this subject have the ammo they want. Nothing will help them in this area unless they have a system equal in spec power and have the real results to show otherwise. That's not a reality most of us can fathom at this point.
nordique
Member
I agree; its really awesome that this came together and thanks to all the folks involved
It is going to be fun to see what can be pieced together. It looks like a really interesting and unique GPU
You don't make friends by being rude and off-topic. Please take that somewhere else as it's unnecessary.
Yep that is an interesting direction for Nintendo to take. Although I still consider it quite plausible that this will be the last real console that Microsoft will make, and that in eight years time they'll go for (relatively) cheap media terminals that rely on cloud computing. They have a better infrastructure for this than Sony, and I can't see Sony competing.
lmfao
reminds me of a certain now-banned Gaffer who made a youtube vid describing why he loves Gaf..
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
If you look closely at the high resolution die. You can see the spot that causes the lockups.
Baki
Member
Sounds like they sacrificed spec for BC. They should have given up on BC and gone balls out on the specs instead.
Smiles and Cries
Member
thank you chipworks and fellow GAF tech dudes
Mod already posted a warning so someone could get banned posting that
Doesn't SRAM have a little less latency than eDRAM? Would that be worth the added silicon for faster texture access?
Hollywood eDRAM latency was pretty amazing, but eDRAM should do the trick. I guess. Maybe it's caching CPU - GPU communication? Would that even make sense? One thing's for sure, though: Nintendo loves complex memory subsystems. The audio DSP alone should have at least two equally large local buffers as well, so that it doesn't hog the bus.
By the way, I kinda think that the part with lots of SRAM at the bottom, to the right of the strange looking block with seven identical looking parts, is the audio DSP.
In what universe are you and others living in. Two generations now they could've gutted BC for a better system and they didn't. They won't and regardless if we agree on that won't change their minds.
Nice, you'll have the honor to be the first guy on my ignore list...
that was rude and unnecessary
BGassassin also got Durango's GPU right about a month ago on B3D.
- Status
Similar threads
- Poll
- Poll