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EVO 2K13 Player's Choice: Donate money to breast cancer and get your favorite game in

S

Sayah

Member
wildfire said:
How so? Look at any game and you sacrifice hit points for speed. Recons aren't as tanky as heavy arms in FPS games, the fastest cars or the ones with the best cornering ability usually have lower weight and are susceptible to all the vagaries of being a lower weight class, in MMOs based on skill point allotment instead of levels you are going to have a hard time putting points into agility attributes and tank at the same time unless you want to lose out heavily on DPS/Control.

Capcom's decision to couch that paradigm into gender roles is another matter but it's understandable why most games avoid mixing in speed with strength.
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I explained my stance using SFXTK as an example following that statement. There are male characters that are more agile and have more health than Nina in SFXTK. That makes the whole agility argument seem like garbage to me in this scenario specifically and, as a result, I also don't think the agility principle can be applied universally.

To give another example since people hate SFXTK around here, we have Wolverine and X-23 in Marvel. Both have very amazing agility and no projectiles yet X-23 is the one taking damage like a wet paper bag. Does X-23 have some vastly superior moveset that justifies the health reduction? I don't know. Marvel theory people can probably explain that stuff.


In any case, as I said, I don't want to work on presumptions either. I could be wrong about all of this.
 
R

Ragingnight

Member
Sayah said:
I explained my stance using SFXTK as an example following that statement. There are male characters that are more agile and have more health than Nina in SFXTK. That makes the whole agility argument seem like garbage to me in this scenario specifically and, as a result, I also don't think the agility principle can be applied universally.

To give another example since people hate SFXTK around here, we have Wolverine and X-23 in Marvel. Both have very amazing agility and no projectiles yet X-23 is the one taking damage like a wet paper bag. Does X-23 have some vastly superior moveset that justifies the health reduction? I don't know. Marvel theory people can probably explain that stuff.


In any case, as I said, I don't want to work on presumptions either. I could be wrong about all of this.
Click to expand...

X-23 is designed to be a pixie mixup character. I highly doubt capcom intended mvc3 to be played like how it was with TOD.

Look at her kit, mirage feint that goes close, far (and crosses up), overhead and all cancelable. She can almost full screen command grab. One of the best wave dashes in the game. A dive move to move across the screen and change her jump arc. An invincible reversal super. An unblockable level 3. An invincible DP.

On paper if I never played MvC3 or seen it before I would HOPE to god she had low health. Remember when mvc3 first demo and people thought Wolverine sucked because divekick didn't hit high? Yeah.

When x-23 was designed she was design around the fact that she can mix you up all day with just about any assist. You think she is going to mirage feint? Command grab. If you want to random super, invincible super.
 
J

Judderman

drawer by drawer
Acerac said:
In Melee the hardest characters to kill are all female.

Peach and Samus are some of the tankiest characters in the game.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's what Solar had in mind.
KuGsj.gif
 
S

Sayah

Member
Ragingnight said:
X-23 is designed to be a pixie mixup character. I highly doubt capcom intended mvc3 to be played like how it was with TOD.

Look at her kit, mirage feint that goes close, far (and crosses up), overhead and all cancelable. She can almost full screen command grab. One of the best wave dashes in the game. A dive move to move across the screen and change her jump arc. An invincible reversal super. An unblockable level 3. An invincible DP.

On paper if I never played MvC3 or seen it before I would HOPE to god she had low health. Remember when mvc3 first demo and people thought Wolverine sucked because divekick didn't hit high? Yeah.

When x-23 was designed she was design around the fact that she can mix you up all day with just about any assist. You think she is going to mirage feint? Command grab. If you want to random super, invincible super.
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I honestly haven't played her enough to even know what you are talking about. Sorry. :/
I understand she has a full screen command grab but you just have to jump to get out of the way, no? And isn't it easy to tell when it's coming? Doesn't she have to do some charge or something before doing the command grab?

I'm not denying she has great tools. But I'm more so wanting to know how she compares with wolverine since that's the closest comparable character to her (I would think). Is wolverine's moveset inferior to X-23 in a significant way?
 
R

Ragingnight

Member
Sayah said:
I honestly haven't played her enough to even know what you are talking about. Sorry. :/
I understand she has a full screen command grab but you just have to jump to get out of the way, no? And isn't it easy to tell when it's coming? Doesn't she have to do some charge or something before doing the command grab?

I'm not denying she has great tools. But I'm more so wanting to know how she compares with wolverine since that's the closest comparable character to her (I would think). Is wolverine's moveset inferior to X-23 in a significant way?
Click to expand...


The fullscreen command grab IIRC can be canceled so you can bait people who jump also you can decide on charge timer I believe. I could be wrong. Even then the charge looks EXACTLY like the other charge moves which give her frame adv on block (unless you chicken block).

A lot of things that make wolverine a better character is due to system mechanics. He is better because the game rewards TOD. He is better because why do 2-3 mixup when I can do 900 damage off 1 assist and kill you. There are a few things that wolverine has that makes him better naturally (instant overhead j.L), but many of the reasons why wolverine is better is due to the system being in his favor.

I honestly think wolverine is a bad example of x-23. I think they are 2 different archetypes that are played very differently. One wants to maul you for that first hit, the other wants to reset you then kill your incoming with a level 3.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
X-23 is a more technical Wolverine. You don't have derp Dive kick or godly normals to fall back on but you have better mobility, superior mix ups and one of the few incoming guard break set ups in the game thanks to that lvl3. If you just look at their tools then X23 wins out but Wolverine's tools (the few he has) are very reliable and him having an install hyper allows him to keep safe if needed, X23 doesn't have a safe hyper. Oh and X23 does more damage than Wolverine for 1 bar and one assist. Damage isn't a problem with her, its her worse range on normals and inferior super jump confirms and throw game.

The health and tool difference between the two isn't that much and in Marvel health doesn't matter that much. X23 having 950K health wouldn't really make people pick her over Wolverine for example.
 
S

Sayah

Member
Ragingnight said:
The fullscreen command grab IIRC can be canceled so you can bait people who jump also you can decide on charge timer I believe. I could be wrong. Even then the charge looks EXACTLY like the other charge moves which give her frame adv on block (unless you chicken block).

A lot of things that make wolverine a better character is due to system mechanics. He is better because the game rewards TOD. He is better because why do 2-3 mixup when I can do 900 damage off 1 assist and kill you. There are a few things that wolverine has that makes him better naturally (instant overhead j.L), but many of the reasons why wolverine is better is due to the system being in his favor.

I honestly think wolverine is a bad example of x-23. I think they are 2 different archetypes that are played very differently. One wants to maul you for that first hit, the other wants to reset you then kill your incoming with a level 3.
Click to expand...


Dahbomb said:
X-23 is a more technical Wolverine. You don't have derp Dive kick or godly normals to fall back on but you have better mobility, superior mix ups and one of the few incoming guard break set ups in the game thanks to that lvl3. If you just look at their tools then X23 wins out but Wolverine's tools (the few he has) are very reliable and him having an install hyper allows him to keep safe if needed, X23 doesn't have a safe hyper. Oh and X23 does more damage than Wolverine for 1 bar and one assist. Damage isn't a problem with her, its her worse range on normals and inferior super jump confirms and throw game.

The health and tool difference between the two isn't that much and in Marvel health doesn't matter that much. X23 having 950K health wouldn't really make people pick her over Wolverine for example.
Click to expand...

Ok. Thanks for these responses. More clear on this now.
 
J

joe2187

Banned
Kotakued

original.jpg


The folks over at Evo, a video game tournament organization dedicated to fighting-games like Marvel vs. Capcom and Tekken, raised a whopping $225,744 for breast cancer research last month.

The money came from a competition designed to decide which fighting game would win a coveted spot in Evo's annual Las Vegas tournament. The people at Evo set up multiple donation pages, each based on a different fighter like Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale or Soul Calibur V.

Super Smash Bros. Melee won the spot, raising $94,683. Skullgirls came in second with $78,760, and Street Fighter II Super Turbo raised $39,567 for the cancer-fighting fund.
Click to expand...


and Joystiqed
smashbrosmelee530px.jpg


he Super Smash Bros. Melee community, having raised the most money out of the competing groups ($94,683), will have its game of choice featured as the eighth official EVO 2013 tournament selection.

Of course, reaching the fundraiser's herculean total required the efforts of fighting game communities from all walks. Skullgirls faithfuls piled up $78,760, for instance, while Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo devotees brought in $39,567.
Click to expand...
 
T

toddhunter

Member
Good joystiq article.

I love how the Kotaku article kind of misses a lot of the point.

dedicated to fighting-games like Marvel vs. Capcom and Tekken
Click to expand...

Ok not bad...could have thrown in SF4 but those two games are at EVO.

The people at Evo set up multiple donation pages, each based on a different fighter like Playstation All-Stars Battle Royale or Soul Calibur V
Click to expand...

Probably not the best choices to highlight what the donations were about. But I suppose people wouldn't know what Skullgirls is right?

The proceeds all go to the Breast Cancer Research Foundation, Evo said.
Click to expand...

Evo should be very proud of itself.

But hey, at least they put it up there.
 
R

Ravidrath

Member
Haha, some dude in the Joystiq comments is saying that all the money from Skullgirls came from the devs and the voice actresses.

Because those are both such lucrative and steady jobs!
 
W

wildfire

Banned
You did have Wendi *goddamn* Lee sponsoring this auction. If anyone had a clue who this voice actress is they would think you've got more cash and connections than you probably didn't.

BTW did anyone actually donate enough for VA lessons with her?
 
L

Lee Chaolan

Member
wildfire said:
You did have Wendi *goddamn* Lee sponsoring this auction. If anyone had a clue who this voice actress is they would think you've got more cash and connections than you probably didn't.

BTW did anyone actually donate enough for VA lessons with her?
Click to expand...

Wendee Lee?

soiDFdE.gif


I didn't hear anyone making that goal. Still, they did a great job.
 
Rentahamster

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
wildfire said:
You did have Wendi *goddamn* Lee sponsoring this auction. If anyone had a clue who this voice actress is they would think you've got more cash and connections than you probably didn't.

BTW did anyone actually donate enough for VA lessons with her?
Click to expand...

I dunno, but by the time they announced it there was only about 3 hours left, so that wasn't a lot of time for the word to spread.
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Slamtastic said:
Unequal health is dumb anyway.

KoF and VF don't have it.
Click to expand...
Equal health is magnitudes more dumb. It's a cop out to avoid balancing across another dimension and adding more variability in play styles, i.e. more riskier and more rewarding ones. Same reason why I don't agree with the philosophy that every character should have similar or parity in their toolset, you just lose more and more variability as you reduce the game to nuances rather than differences.
 
S

SolarPowered

Member
enzo_gt said:
Equal health is magnitudes more dumb. It's a cop out to avoid balancing across another dimension and adding more variability in play styles, i.e. more riskier and more rewarding ones. Same reason why I don't agree with the philosophy that every character should have similar or parity in their toolset, you just lose more and more variability as you reduce the game to nuances rather than differences.
Click to expand...
Everything you've said makes Tony want to hit the bottle again.

When health isn't a concern the key tools, mechanics and character quirks have to be pushed to the edge in order for different characters to compete evenly.
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
SolarPowered said:
Everything you've said makes Tony want to hit the bottle again.

When health isn't a concern the key tools, mechanics and character quirks have to be pushed to the edge in order for different characters to compete evenly.
Click to expand...
Evening health alone reduces one factor of risk alone for play styles that could otherwise be there. Even if the tools are balanced around equalized health, you still lose that, and you're still making the cast more similar amongst one additional dimension. Zangief with the same health as others forces balancing with damage, putting greater weight on whatever tools beat other tools, emphazing rigid match ups more, which then deemphasizes spacing, etc. it's a cascading effect of issues. Giving him more tools to compensate, that are likely similar to other tools that other characters already have just embraces more similarity within the cast. And suddenly, Zangief doesn't have to take as many risks anymore.

Side note: I just typed Zangief on my phone and it autocorrected to Sanford wtf
 
S

SolarPowered

Member
Azure J said:
Well played.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the first image that came to my mind as I read his post was poor Tony falling over himself in a drunken stupor.
enzo_gt said:
Evening health alone reduces one factor of risk alone for play styles that could otherwise be there. Even if the tools are balanced around equalized health, you still lose that, and you're still making the cast more similar amongst one additional dimension. Zangief with the same health as others forces balancing with damage, putting greater weight on whatever tools beat other tools, emphazing rigid match ups more, which then deemphasizes spacing, etc. it's a cascading effect of issues. Giving him more tools to compensate, that are likely similar to other tools that other characters already have just embraces more similarity within the cast. And suddenly, Zangief doesn't have to take as many risks anymore.

Side note: I just typed Zangief on my phone and it autocorrected to Sanford wtf
Click to expand...
Probably moving this conversation to the FGW thread. This is the kind of discussion I'd like to have in there.
Professor Beef said:
By going to the beach!?
Click to expand...
What is this beach people keep talking about?
 
R

Ravidrath

Member
Thanks, everyone.

Gonna start working with Marvelous and Autumn to see if we can get any additional support to get the voice actresses there, prizes, etc.

Had a great time last year, and this year looks like it'll be even better.
 
O

oneida

Cock Strain, Lifetime Warranty
enzo_gt said:
Equal health is magnitudes more dumb. It's a cop out to avoid balancing across another dimension and adding more variability in play styles, i.e. more riskier and more rewarding ones.
Click to expand...

Or it is balanced by other means - VF has weight classes, and lighter characters get tossed around for more damaging combos than heavier characters.
 
R

Retro_

Unconfirmed Member
toddhunter said:
Just wait until melee finishes on Friday and Skullgirls is between sf4 and marvel.

Salt would be amazing.
Click to expand...

Oh man I hope so

I hate watching events back to back. I could use the break :p

Congrats to SG tho
 
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