Here you have you tanks.
Thanks Ants, Thants.
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EA refuses to refund user for Sim City and then threatens a ban if they chargeback
- Thread starter IcyRhythms
- Start date
Thanks Ants, Thants.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Shouldn't be too hard to prove:
Described as "always online", actually almost never online. Therefore not as described.
Purpose is to play a game, actually cannot play game. Therefore not fit for purpose.
As for faulty? Well, how long should it take to log a game on online - couple of seconds maybe. Not two days. Therefore faulty as well.
That's a full house right there.
I remember when I was a kid, EA was always a sign of quality and innovation. I grew up with titles like Populous, Bioforge, the Ultima Series, Magic Carpet, Dungeon Keeper and many more amazing games from talented studios and developers they ended up screwing over. They've long since become an out-of-touch, profit-at-all-costs behemoth, which discards talent like rubbish and treats customers with contempt. No respect left for them at all.
MemoryHumanity
Member
Wait. This hasn't been translated?
This is what they wrote? That's possibly the poorest writing I've ever seen from a gaming website.
Even the quote from the Press Release has an error, which I doubt was in there originally. It barely makes sense.
This is what they wrote? That's possibly the poorest writing I've ever seen from a gaming website.
Even the quote from the Press Release has an error, which I doubt was in there originally. It barely makes sense.
Yeah, we're dealing with human floods!
yeah, cuz being able to return a product you aren't happy with is for socialists and people who shop at walmart.
Well you're the lawyer here, not me. I'm just of the opinion that EA would be able to argue otherwise, since service disruptions are going to happen. Imo it really depends on how they're going to quantify the limits and EA will have logs while the netizens mostly have "feels".
(note: not defending EA, just doubtful of any legal proceedings going against them)
IISANDERII
Member
A new Cities XL was also released just released[same day as Simcity]? Why didn't I hear about this?
I'm watching a video of Cities XL 2012 and it seems better than Simcity. Look how way more authentic even the suburbs are. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=DVxMlHTpHXE#t=310s
edit: woops wrong time stamp
I'm watching a video of Cities XL 2012 and it seems better than Simcity. Look how way more authentic even the suburbs are. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=DVxMlHTpHXE#t=310s
edit: woops wrong time stamp
Sure, as soon as the multimillion dollar company stops paying them as representatives.
TheVoidDragon
Member
EA really has terrible support from what I've seen. They should give a refund for it if their game is broken but it doesn't really surprise me that they won't.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Mostly it's not about whether they would win in court, it's about being able to assert your rights to a refund under whatever consumer law are where you are. If it is faulty/not to description/not fit for purpose at the point of delivery, then you'll usually be able to demand a refund - and not "at their discretion" either.
I imagine, too, that they might have a bit of a tough argument trying the line in court that "service disruptions are going to happen". If they tried that with me I'd cross examine and have them admit in the end that the service (and therefore the product) is inherently faulty. Slam dunk.
So I bought the game from GreenManGaming. I want to get a refund, obviously GMG is not going to refund an activated key. However, its not like I bought the game from Origin, so I'm in a dilemma. To get a refund I have to dispute the charge from GMG which F's them over. Its not their fault though, it's Origin's. I don't see a way to get a refund for this without screwing GMG, I'd have no problem screwing Origin, but don't see a way to do it.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Why did the policies change?
spandexmonkey
Banned
I'm not sure with Origin, but I know with Steam, GMG can get a refund on an activated key, they just refuse to do so. If you do a charge back they'll revoke your Steam key.
Request a refund from GMG, I don't believe you can do a chargeback without speaking to the retailer first anyway.
Then GMG will have to claim the refund back from EA, which should be easy and at the end of the day isn't your problem. GMG chose to sell this product.
This.
They only do refunds on pre-orders. After that you only get one, and even then it's only a refund to your Steam wallet. Not your payment card.
Well, software is inherently faulty, since only space agencies can have so thorough QA that it nabs all the errors (and not even they have a 100% success rate). Maybe it's just a simple bug like being able to fall through the world at some points, or maybe it's a bug that stops your progress or eats your save. This imo falls somewhere in the middle, since while it obviously is currently not allowing you to play the game, it is time specific.
Now this isn't that great of an analogy since this is not planned, but if you purchase an MMO subscription and attempt to play at maintenance, do you get to claim that the game is broken?
of course they changed their statement from "you can, of course, request a refund" to: 3.) Please review our refund policy here: https://help.ea.com/article/returns-and-cancellations
GMG refused to refund to the game.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Not true. When Valve says just once its to cover their ass if they dont do it the next time. Everytime you cancel a preorder the support says 'just this once'.
Unstoppable Lionheart
Banned
I am in my third year of law school and in the U.S. they can't rescind an offer after it has been accepted.
I would have agreed with you that they are entitled to some time to remedy the problem but since they specifically offered to refund anyone who asks for one, they are obligated to do so.
Not to mention there is a perfectly good argument that the product is inherently defective because the online DRM is not going away and has significant potential to not work like it should at various points in time and often as evidenced by this fiasco.
If I can make the argument in the U.S., I'll have it ten times easier in the EU because they put up with way less bullshit.
Also this thanks to another poster:
This clearly says they can get a refund immediately and from the wording here, the supplier is not entitled to time to remedy.
It's complicated but there are a lot of arguments to be made.
A couple easy ones are that this is an unconscionable contract which basically means the contract is bullshit and no reasonable person would have agreed to it if they had equal bargaining power. This wouldn't work well if it was your first game you bought from them but if you have several games on your account and they threaten to ban your account, now you are being bullied into a position that you probably wouldn't have accepted otherwise.
Refunds at someone's discretion is also bullshit. If it doesn't work, they have some amount of time to fix it but generally they owe you your money back. It wouldn't be too hard to argue that the game is inherently defective and will never work right thanks to online DRM.
You could argue how the industry itself doesn't provide proper protection when compared to every other industry on earth which requires judicial interference such as not being able to try it/see it before you play it. Carefully tailored trailers are not a fair opportunity and don't count.
These are just examples.
No I mean you only get one refund after the game is released.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Do you mean one refund EVER? As in if you buy two different broken games a year apart Valve wont give you a refund for the second? If so mind providing a link? If I am misunderstanding you I apologize.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
Leave Cliffy out of this!
It's a subscription, most DD Places don't sell games.
Tallshortman
Member
Well of course you're going to lose access to the game if you chargeback, but EA should refund him/her.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
Lose access to the entire account and all games associated with it.
I'm sure there are exceptions like WarZ for example but for the majority of the time it will be a one-off. No source because they don't provide one, it was from one of their CSR's after getting a refund and even then they were hard pressed to give me that one. Had to throw them some British legislation in their face.
Too busy driving around in his Aventador.
Not really, this was their response to it:
I only got it because of a 'one off cs gesture'
Steam have refunded me on two occasions for a faulty product. The first was From Dust which was a mess on release and had previously unadvertised DRM included, the other is a Codemaster's F1 game, which have all been buggy messes. I had put a lot of hours into that F1 game as well before I gave up and asked for a refund. I think it was 2010 or 2011.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Not really, this was their response to it:
I only got it because of a 'one off cs gesture'
Thats what I meant with cancelling preorders. Its their default response. They will always say that even though it isn't actually true.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
A suspended account on Origin does give you access to your games in offline mode though. Doesn't really help with something like SimCity, but the distinction should be noted.
cpp_is_king
Member
good to know youre thinking about me. feel free to look for my response earlier in the thread
My sentiments exactly. If I get banned, so be it. Not just going to take it up the ass and then pay for it.
GoddyofAus
Banned
Big multinationals will never acknowledge the consumer laws of individual countries because to do so sets a precedent. Shove the laws under their noses and they'll tell you to get stuffed, but have a lawyer do it for you and things change very quickly.
Their position on cancelling and refunding pre-orders is clearly listed on their site. Refunds after they have released however is not and is a murky area, some people are successful while others are not.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
Did they give you a reason why? This is the part that completely irks me with what EA is doing. If EA says that people can request a refund on the game as part of their official statement, it should completely blow up in their face if they turn around and start denying refunds based on "their discretion". I hope this whole thing turns into a gigantic PR nightmare for them.
Tallshortman
Member
Oh I see, well that's certainly too much. This needs to be elevated, no reason not to refund when there's been service problems with the product.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
I agree but my position is just as Valve doesn't always offer a refund they also don't always limit customers to one lifetime refund. Its at the discretion of support. We have already seen a couple in this thread state they have received more than one refund from Valve.