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EA refuses to refund user for Sim City and then threatens a ban if they chargeback
- Thread starter IcyRhythms
- Start date
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
I'm guessing they changed it because it was a horrible policy. I'd be interested in seeing a relevant US law or court case on the matter but I'm not aware of any.
I already know that not offering refunds doesn't fly in Euroland.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
Like I said in most of that post, chargebacks are predominantly the result of someone disputing the charges due to fraud and Valve's and EA's response is probably an automated immediate suspension of the account until further notice. That's what I was really talking about.
Yes, it may be possible to get a refund by referring to that. However, I think it's likely that it refers to a more permanent situation, rather than a small delay (that 30 days bit and the preceeding sentence also implies that). In contract law the seller is generally allowed a chance to make a proper performance before the buyer has the right to withdraw from the contract.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
EA doesnt care about horrible policies. These companies dont change these types of policies just for the hell of it.
obviously if you are a retail store and you refuse a refund, you don't want the refund to be issued by a third party (i.e a bank). But threatening a ban should be illegal - its threatening the consumer into not pursuing what they consider a rightful refund.
Curious - if Steam did ban you from future purchases, would steamworks games still unlock? because if not, they're effectively banning you from the majority of PC games due to their power in the market
I'm pretty sure that even a small delay would be enough.
However, it's also true that the customer has to give the company the chance to fix things. In Germany, it's two time until you can request to get your money back. In addition to that you'll also have to give them an appropriate amount of time to fix the product for you. I'd argue that the unplayable game counts as an un-opened good and the customer has therefor the right to simply return it within 14 days (in Germany) for a full refund.
In any way, including "absolutely no refunds" or anything like that seems weird.
Mr. Luchador
Member
Can support this. Red Orchestra 2 was pretty unstable upon release. Emailed Steam Support with the details. Refund was processed.
Kibbles
Member
They still wouldn't do a refund despite saying they would in the press release. Really shitty.
Same problem here - I preordered on Origin but the order wasn't complete (I didn't have a key attached) on monday so I decided to cancel this order and to buy a key online which instantly arrived. On tuesday a support rep answered me that the cancellation is in progress and today I see the preordered version unlocked in my Origin account and a mail stating "sorry, can't cancel - order fulfilled"... so now I have two copies...
Kill Your Masters
Member
DD only future sounds pretty awful if you ask me.
In early December my Simpsons: tapped out game was reset to level 0 with no warning. I emailed EA support and got a series of cut and paste email replies over the next 3 months.
Eventually I stopped getting replies at all, so I set up an 'EA customer service is rubbish' page on Facebook and posted the link on a few EA related pages.
What a surprise! The very next day I got an email from someone in EA corporate services apologising for my bad experience.
Within 2 days my game had been restored and credited with 250 donuts (in game currency).
Eventually I stopped getting replies at all, so I set up an 'EA customer service is rubbish' page on Facebook and posted the link on a few EA related pages.
What a surprise! The very next day I got an email from someone in EA corporate services apologising for my bad experience.
Within 2 days my game had been restored and credited with 250 donuts (in game currency).
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
EA = VALVe guys.
Don't forget that.
This is beyond ridiculous.
Don't forget that.
This is beyond ridiculous.
AuthenticM
Member
What's a chargeback ?
Mr. Luchador
Member
Why?
Outsourced or not, someone at EA has decided these are the people they want as the public facing representatives of their company.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Not really.
BannedEpisode
Member
Sucks for that guy, especially since EA implies that they would accomadate a refund if you are not satisfied.
This is apples and oranges but after Diablo 3 came out it didn't run very well on my desktop and I didn't really enjoy the game. I called their customer service rep and asked for a refund. They helped me out with no issue and "I don't think it's right for me" was enough. That surprised the hell out of me.
This is apples and oranges but after Diablo 3 came out it didn't run very well on my desktop and I didn't really enjoy the game. I called their customer service rep and asked for a refund. They helped me out with no issue and "I don't think it's right for me" was enough. That surprised the hell out of me.
I did the exact same thing with Red Orchestra 2, all it took was a single e-mail and I had a full refund. It boggles the mind why EA can't do the same thing.
Glass Rebel
Member
The chargeback thing is expected, the real news here is how EA handles refunds.
Can't wait for this company to burn to the ground.
Can't wait for this company to burn to the ground.
It doesn't actually mean "absolutely no refunds", just that there will be no refunds as long as EA isn't in breach of contract. If proper peformance can not be or is not made within a reasonable time, they will and have to give a refund. That's also what I mean by the small delay not being sufficient.
It's kind of interesting how consumers, at least the ones posting on the enthusiast forums, seem to treat videogames differently from other types of products. They seem to have no problem RMAing a piece of PC hardware and possibly waiting quite a while for the fixed substitute to arrive, but when their game doesn't immediately work, they aren't quite as understanding. Perhaps it's due to perceiving that the service/product as whole doesn't work as advertised rather than being a rarer occurrence. In either case, it's quite likely that the issues will be resolved within a reasonable timeframe.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
Yea, this whole "at our discretion" thing is what's not sitting well with me for this SimCity cluster. What makes this guy different from other people who have been able to get their money back for this game? Unless of course the guy has actually been able to play the game the entire time and just decided he didn't want it anymore. That's a different thing altogether.
daninthemix
Member
Whether or not its right is irrelevant - this is a disastrous policy of EA's if true, as the actual amounts of money involved are tiny, while the potential for negative PR is huge.
I'm going by Finnish law here (but our law is pretty pro consumer) and games are lumped with CDs and DVDs, so it's considered opened when you break the seal (usually the shrinkwrap). Of course when the thing is broken, you can always return it -- but the game is clearly not broken, just suffering from service disruptions from heavy load spikes.
And for the appropriate time, only essential (the example we had in our class was if you had a single phone which broke) goods/services need to be compensated immediately. Others had a leeway of a couple weeks (marked as 'appropriate' so it's arguable in courts) so I really doubt that there's any legal recourse for intermittent service disruptions at the launch of a new service.
Expecially when they said they will offer them.
Tricky one, then again all depends on where you live. For example there are many EU laws and legislation that are there to protect the consumer. Here in the UK if a product is defective or does not function as intended you are entitled to a refund within 28 days of purchase as part of the Sale Of Goods Act regardless if this was bought in a store on online.
Can see why EA would not be happy with a chargeback but to outright state they would ban them is deplorable. Though knowing EA this is probably stated in the EULA and Terms of Service.
Can see why EA would not be happy with a chargeback but to outright state they would ban them is deplorable. Though knowing EA this is probably stated in the EULA and Terms of Service.
Gorgon
Member
Pretty much.
The issue here is that they implied that they are giving out refunds, and are working on solving whatever "issue" they may have with the current refund system or regulations, whatever. Of course you can *request* a refund, that's obvious.
The fact that an EA representative stated it suggests that it's a high probability, which was not reflected in this chat log at all. It seems far more likely that it was an attempt to persuade potential buyers, and related to the always on issue. I mean, why else would they have mentioned it? Game representatives rarely do unless the game might have problems.
And EA even claimed that they wouldn't have the same issues as D3 on launch.
The fact that an EA representative stated it suggests that it's a high probability, which was not reflected in this chat log at all. It seems far more likely that it was an attempt to persuade potential buyers, and related to the always on issue. I mean, why else would they have mentioned it? Game representatives rarely do unless the game might have problems.
And EA even claimed that they wouldn't have the same issues as D3 on launch.
http://kotaku.com/5915377/like-diablo-iii-sim-city-will-require-an-online-connection
in the UK, would electronic downloads like this be covered under distance selling regs? If you buy physical goods online via mail order, you can return them within 7 days without having to give a reason - I think because you can't examine them prior to purchase like you might be able to do in a retail store.
bodyboarder
Member
Then why did they mention it at all if they were never going to be honour it, which in turn leads to bad press.
Nope distance regs are for mainly for unwanted items and more often than not need to be returned in a condition that they can resold. There's a section on there stating
Some people have tried to get refunds from iTunes before stating distance regs and got turned away.
As I stated about though you are still covered by your consumer rights and the Sale of Goods Act if a product is defective or faulty, which I think everyone can agree on.
Origin has a policy in the EU that you can cancel within 14 days of placing your order, providing you don't download it. I want to cancel my SimCity order but I have no idea how. I go to the Help section, it says I need to contact Customer Service. My only options are to call a super-expensive phone number or post about it on their forums. How do I get to the Live Chat?
Cosmonaut X
Member
Is it not 14 days? I don't expect it would cover this though.
No it's 7 working days from the date you receive the goods. In Provision 13 it states what is exempt and computer software is one article as is gaming although that's grouped under gambling and lottery but you know someone like EA would try and spin this. The big problem is that The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations are close to 13 years old and have not been revised. They were introduced to aid the consumer in protecting their rights for purchases that would be sent in transit from online retailers which you haven't examined. Since then download services have become increasingly popular what with music, films, books, mobile phone app stores and games gaining traction but no clear guidance as to what your rights to cancel are. The Sale of Goods Act is more firm in it's stance but is aimed at consumer rights and is getting on for 33 years old and hasn't been revised since 2002.
Mr.Wreckless
Banned
I dont think a lot of people understand what chargebacks do to companies. They think its just like getting a refund and then its business as usual.
Projectjustice
Banned
This is why I just dont buy ea products.
Well to be fair, the company here defrauded people of some money while not giving appropriate service in return.
GoddyofAus
Banned
Oh wow....Oh wow.
Kill Your Masters
Member
The industry itself is built around the argument 'it's just business deal with it' and we definitely should stop looking at companies as charities that need our money otherwise they'll be very sad.
What about us, our hard earned money, that we give them and get potentially shitty services in return without any way to bail out except to take it as a lesson learned and never support this company again.
fabricated backlash
Member
When a large portion of the audience has literally no spine to speak off, companies tend to get cocky and interpret the legal framework to their liking.
More to the point a lot of people don't understand what a chargeback is and what's entailed in the process. Bearing in mind with debit cards you have to speak to your card issuer which is more than likely your bank, who then have to speak to either the bank or merchant company for the provider and put in a request. They would have to supply good reason as to why they want a chargeback and then it is up to the retailer to agree to this. You can dispute your request if it is denied but would more often than not have to result in legal action.
In the UK you have more cover if you are using a credit card and spending over £100 seeing as that is protected by the Consumer Credit Act. Section 75 covers you for anything you purchase. There's a few problems with third parties and so on (PayPal, Amazon Marketplace) but it's pretty firm in its stance you will get your money back.
Professor Renegade
Banned
What a load of crap, I'm glad that I stopped buying EA games.
Why would they care about that? Very few companies are doing good customer service, especially when it comes to video games.
I cannot return the game because it's already been opened, I cannot get a refund for the game because it was purchased on XBLA or PSN, I won't get another online pass if mine isn't work unless I jump through various hoops. When people complain loudly then companies just brush it off by saying “vocal minority”.
Some companies, not all, use all the tools available to get a favorable outcome for them. I honestly don't get why it's bad for customers to do the same thing. Not that I'd do or recommend it (I don't buy EA games anyway) but I have absolutely no problem with people using all the tools they have when the product isn't what was promised or doesn't work at all. They shouldn't have to be okay with waiting in a case like that. I cannot buy something and tell the seller "Yeah, my part of the contract... you know... I actually don't have money but you can wait until I have some, okay?" so the seller shouldn't be able to do that either.
blitzcloud
Banned
and you hold the power to crush them by not buying any of their games. ANd when you buy them because you WANT them, buy them second hand
The issue was that people were able to get refunds for Diablo. EA has very clearly remedied that by not wanting to give refunds...