To Activision you're a peasant, they need you to continue their riches and enjoy their decadent lifestyle but they really don't care about you.
EA fucking hates you.
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EA refuses to refund user for Sim City and then threatens a ban if they chargeback
- Thread starter IcyRhythms
- Start date
To Activision you're a peasant, they need you to continue their riches and enjoy their decadent lifestyle but they really don't care about you.
EA fucking hates you.
Yeah, that's called fraud.
EA's refund policy is pretty clearly stated:
Chargebacks are extremely harmful. They not only cost a buttload of money (EA would probably lose $20 per chargeback), but the price of each chargeback actually increases with each additional instance. Once a company passes a threshold of chargebacks, a credit card company will refuse service to the company. When a customer threatens a chargeback to "force" a refund, I'd say it warrants a ban.
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
No he won't lose access to his games, but Steam effectively disables you from making any future purchases while the account is under review. This is pretty much normal operating procedure when this happens and I wouldn't be surprised if it's an automated lockdown thing as soon as it hits their system. Mostly because a chargeback is most commonly associated with fraud and they want to be able to get on top of it quickly.
People need to understand that doing a chargeback is a fairly extreme step.
alexandros
Banned
A slight fix.
But that's literally what their job is ...
As has been mentioned numerous times, nearly all DD merchants will ban/suspend an account for chargebacks. Steam being an obvious example, now around April last year Steam changed their suspension policy - initially when suspended you couldnt access any of your games, now you can access any games youve purchased previous to the suspension. Why did they change it? Perhaps to match Origins updated suspension terms whcih had changed a month or two before. In short, when your Origin account is suspended you can still play games youve purchased previously so they werent going to "ban him from the games he has already purchased". EA are a pretty shitty company, but people distorting the truth or remaining willfully ignornant of it dont help the situation or level of discourse.
Raitosaito
Member
When EA piss all over consumer law and rights, not offering refunds for critical flaws and fundamentally broken products and services then they are committing fraud. If that's not worth a chargeback nothing is.
They're official support representatives, but they're not determinants of policy and PR.
If a McDonald's employee treats me rudely or gives me crappy service, I don't blame the company, I blame the employee or his direct management.
I'd love to know what law they're breaking. And what fundamentally broken products are we talking about here? They are selling Sim City as a service. If I sign up for a month at a gym, work out there for a week, and then the gym is closed for a week to do repairs, am I supposed to get my full month's fee back? No, but I can probably ask for some credit, which is basically what the rep offered the customer there.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Yes it is extreme but its there for situations EXACTLY like this. Customer purchased a product that simply doesn't work. Customer deserved a refund. EA won't comply then a chargeback is legitimate.
EA seem to actively try to get every penny possible out of each game. No effort, less piracy possible, close studios. Its like they try less and less for the games, to see how low we can go until we stop buying the games.
What is strange, is that they would have made so much more money if there was no DRM. I would have bought Simcity without the DRM, because I work in a place without a good internet connection.
exmachina64
Banned
Do you live in the US?
That's exactly what happens. We're not guaranteed access to electricity or the internet in this country and we're less well off because of it.
Because people keep bringing it up, EA's customer service has a good reputation because of their call centers, one of which is located in Minnesota. They're all located in the US, to my knowledge, and very friendly.
Edit: To say preemptively, having domestic customer support makes a huge difference if my experience with Sprint is anything to go by.
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
Wow. The only thing worse than Blizzard always online DRM is EA always online DRM.
Yep, EA/Origin support has been top-notch almost every time I've contacted them. The two times I've had issues have been with BF3 during its launch, which is why I suspect it's being outsourced when they expect support volume to increase. Those two experiences were extremely fucking frustrating.
Sometimes. Remember GTAIV? They basically gave me the finger.
Right. Their chat centers are nothing near as good as their call centers. Amazon is pretty much the exact same way.
Ahh yes, the old 'appeal to analogy'.
If you sign up to go the gym, then as soon as they take your money they say "oh, you can't come in for a week now' you would be well within your rights to take your money back and go elsewhere. EA haven't disclosed how fucked their online system is, they have not honestly represented the quality of the game+service and as a result, people are caught paying money for something that is fundamentally broken.
(Pro tip: if you cannot connect to the online servers for an online only game, that counts as fundamentally broken).
So again, what law are they breaking here? Their refund policy is extremely clear as well. And "fundamentally broken" is very poorly defined. They clearly have intentions to fix the online functionality. I don't consider that fundamentally broken. Or if there were compatibility problems with a customer's machine, would you still consider that fundamentally broken?
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
Yes, but like I said the lockdown is probably an automated response as soon as the chargeback hits their system. Then it's up to a warm body with the right administrative privileges to investigate the issue which can take some time depending on their backlog.
Also it's important to note that a suspended Origin account doesn't block you from all your games:
https://help.ea.com/article/electronic-arts-account-suspension-policy
Obviously this doesn't help with SimCity seeing as it's online only, but there seems to be some misinformation going around about what EA exactly does.
They are misrepresenting the product + service. The service is not working, therefore anyone who buys it is not able to play the game they paid for. Last time I checked misrepresentation at point of sale was fraudulent. Maybe fraud is legal where you live?
Their refund policy is clear - clear in that it says they will refund 'at their discretion' and in 'exceptional circumstances'. The problem is, you cannot get to this bit in the EULA before buying a game. The other problem is 'their discretion' is contradicted by EA themselves, where they say they will offer refunds then refuse to offer refunds when people ask for them.
If a product does not work as advertised, it should not be a matter of EA's "discretion" whether they offer a refund or not. It should be mandatory, otherwise it's fraud.
I'll spell it out.
Game requires online connection to work.
Customer's internet is working.
Game provider's internet or server system is not working.
Game cannot be played.
Sounds pretty fundamental to me.
If you buy a car and it doesn't work, what laws is the dealer breaking?
https://www.google.com/search?q=origin+refund+policy
https://help.ea.com/article/returns-and-cancellations
What you described is a disruption in service, not a fundamentally broken product. This is NOT fraud. I don't know how you could even argue a temporary disruption in service is fraud. In fact, you'd be very hard pressed to define a fundamentally broken product, as games are largely sold and marketed as services nowadays.
None that I'm aware of.
Nice links, where abouts are they on the box and is the EULA printed out in its entirety on the product?
Now, as to your assertion - if games are sold as services nowadays, and the service is broken, why shouldn't that get a refund? Unless they disclose at point of sale "you won't be able to play the game for a few weeks because our servers can't handle it" then they are obligated to issue a refund, otherwise its fraudulent.
Most states have lemon laws to protect you when it comes to vehicles.
Assuming you mean a physical product...
And if you didn't buy it from Origin, it's up to the store's return policy. Origin's physical product policy is actually superior to most brick and mortar stores, as most (at least the ones I've gone to) won't even accept opened PC games.
And no, if the service is disrupted, that is not fraud. Fraud is intentional. Server downtimes and technical issues are not.
So its negligence and incompetence then, followed up with a complete lack of respect for customers. (Assuming of course they actually did research into server loads, I mean, they shipped how many copies? Surely they would have stress tested servers to be confident they could support x number of sales. But then they would know their service quality, which would make it fraudulent. It's one or the other - fraud, or complete incompetence and negligence).
I guess one could confuse that with fraud, but the end result is the same: never give them your money.
I guess one could confuse that with fraud, but the end result is the same: never give them your money.
That's a pretty good analogy. Activision is definitely a tyrant, but at least they haven't implemented a lot of unpopular policies, like an always-on DRM or online passes.
Team Filler
Member
I'm seeing some real obliviousness in this thread. A lot of you are forgetting a very important part of business: if a customer (doesn't matter if it's packaged goods or a service) is adamant about wanting a refund, you don't argue it out and deny them their refund. You comply in a professional manner, apologize for the dissatisfaction they have endured, and ask them to reconsider your business for the future. It's far harder to get new customers than it is to retain existing customers.
That's fucking it, end of story.
That's fucking it, end of story.
michaelius
Banned
He bought EA product - what was he expecting ?
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
Better analogy is the dealership informing you that your car needs gas to run just minutes before the nearest gas station explodes.
Well of course it should be, but in this world we have people ready to argue against their consumer rights to protect incompetent/negligent and fraudulent publishers.
CambriaRising
Member
Team Filler
Member
Corporations are people too!
Kill Your Masters
Member
Yup, but then again so are people assholes too. And EA is apparently full of them.
Yep. It's poor planning by their release team. It's actually quite a shame, especially after the crap that came with BF3. It's a sign that EA doesn't place enough stock in their own reputation when it comes to smooth launches.
Team Filler
Member
Best of both worlds, amirite?
People who knowingly and intentionally don't stress test their servers so they can claim "service outage!" and get away without strictly meeting the definition of fraud.
I hope BF4 has worse problems than this game and diablo 3 put together. They (EA) won't learn anything otherwise, and the customer backlash will be savage.
Chie Satonaka
Member
Blows me away. Reading this thread and the defense for this shit is just astonishing. People shouldn't be buying the game anyway; this always online shit needs to STOP. But you buy a game you intend to play single player and then you... can't fucking play it? And that's okay?
For people who are arguing server downtime, all I can say is lol. Server downtime is something I expect when I play World of Warcraft, not when I'm playing Super Mario Bros by myself. How can anyone defend this?
I almost hope Durango's always online rumor turns out to be true. It'll be fascinating to see how many people defend it and purchase it despite it being completely anti-consumer.
Quinton McLeod
Banned
Call the bank and get your refund. If EA bans your account, download the game illegally.
I'm sorry, but if you're a paying customer and the company you're making your purchase through is punishing you based off their flawed policies, they can't blame you for trying other avenues in which you can enjoy your purchase.
I'm sorry, but if you're a paying customer and the company you're making your purchase through is punishing you based off their flawed policies, they can't blame you for trying other avenues in which you can enjoy your purchase.
alexandros
Banned
Consumer: Hi, your game is broken and I'd like a refund.
EA: TOO BAD MOTHERFUCKER!
EA: TOO BAD MOTHERFUCKER!
Crimsonclaw111
Member
It's a goddamn shame that EA owns Criterion, I love the **** out of their games and are probably the only EA games I'd consider buying new.
DreadPirateRoberts
Member
the ban for a charge back isn't that bad(it still sucks), but saying "we said you could request a refund, not that we would give you one" is the real dick move here.
disappeared
Banned
Guys, remember just a few years back when we were all praising EA for ushering in new IP and the like?
The times and all that.
It's incredible how quickly a company can shift its policies and fuck with consumers.
The times and all that.
It's incredible how quickly a company can shift its policies and fuck with consumers.
I think its reached the point now where a large enough pool of people have either grown up with zero rights for customers being the norm, and where they happily sign away all their options just to play the new shiny. This isnt exclusive to gaming of course.
People are becoming accustomed to being fucked over by companies via whatever fake excuses they (or their sycophants) can come up with. This is some real Ministry of Love shit.
Don't forget asinine arguments like "Vote with your wallet"
Team Filler
Member
I'm not saying EA are, in fact, the sellers of snake oil, but they are dangerously close to becoming exactly that.
Personal anecdote: after the debacle that was the original release of Black & White, I refused to give any money to EA ever again. More recently, with some gems such as the original Dead Space, Crysis, and a couple others, I finally loosened my restriction and picked up some EA games during various sales. After this last couple of years, though, I'm firmly back at my position of never giving them my money.
In short: Fuck EA.
Kill Your Masters
Member
lol
Well if these worlds consists of a self flagellation fetish, definitely.