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[Lyng]

I really wish people would know what they're talking about when saying stuff like this.

1) The company is not in any real trouble. Things aren't great but they're not even close to going out of business like they have been at various points before.

2) The last time the company was in real trouble, it was a man named Yoichi Wada that saved them. Sakaguchi was actually the one that ran them head first into that trouble.

Note that this isn't a defence of Wada, simply two facts. Personally I think Wada overstayed his welcome and should've resigned shortly after the merger.

Financially that kind of outcome compared to what they should deliver is a crysis. The gaming industry is not any different then any other industry out there.

Sakaguchi needs people around him who can deliver playabillity to his ideas and also control him. If you let Kojima make a film it would be horrible bad aswell.
As gaming stories they are not bad though.

Of course Sakaguchi can not save it himself but Last Story and Lost Odyssey where leaps and bounds of better games then any major SE title this generation.

If we at my company started changing core things about our products that our customers expect to be there we would see the same amount of problems.
Final Fantasy XIII was a beautifull game but a horrible Final Fantasy.
The illusion of worlds and exploration was removed completely.

SE made some pretty big core mistakes in their game creation that didnt happen earlier.

Sakaguchi might not have changed that, as seeing their last great game was not with him, but they at least need to collect the talent they have on fewer better titles. And an MMO is really not the solution.
Just look at EA....

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

They have only been doing that since the Wii. Don't pretend like that is something they always did.

What have they done lately?

 

[AOC83]

When there were the NPD sales freely shared on this one site late last gen I noticed most sequels to games that weren't megahits slowly declined with each sequel. So, yeah, it'd probably do worse just by default, the question is by how much. And I do imagine it'll be a normal decline.

Maybe even more, the generation is almost over , so we have generational fatigue and on top of that a general lack if interest for the whole XIII subseries.

 

[BocoDragon]

True, though as a result I don't think LR would dip much further below XIII-2 either. Actually I believe X-2's sales were also way lower than X, though XIII did leave a far worse taste in everyone's mouths.

You just forced me to check the numbers based on wikipedia articles. It's not a science, but paints a picture.

FFX: 6.6 million
FFX-2: 4 million

FFXIII: 6.2 million
FFXIII-2: 3.1 million

As you can see, the dropoff for XIII -> XIII-2 was worse... but not really by that much. I was expecting worse. I think it had bad numbers out of the gate.... but we shouldn't underestimate the discount/Greatest Hits sales of a game. It's not the disaster I had heard.

 

[Eusis]

Square Enix somehow managed to ship over 3 million units of Final Fantasy X-2. This time, they can be considered lucky if Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII reaches half of that amount.

I wouldn't be surprised if that had more to do with how quickly the price nosedived, they likely overestimated demand and now will keep it a bit more down to Earth so retailers aren't flooded. I imagine when it comes to actual sales it'd have roughly the same trajectory, but a bit lower.

DAT Western approach
DAT mobile gaming
DAT remasters
DAT Xbox360 exclusive JRPGs
DAT appreciation for their best developers

Nothing but a streak of amazing choices. Without buying EIDOS Square-Enix would be already dead.

Looks like GAF was right.

I'm pretty sure they'd still be alive. Just not in a form many of us would recognize or want: they DO have several businesses beyond games such as their figurines and manga, and so would probably just move away from being a major international company and focus more at home much like Enix did at one point in the 90s.

You just forced me to check the numbers based on wikipedia articles. It's not a science, but paints a picture.

FFX: 6.6 million
FFX-2: 4 million

FFXIII: 6.2 million
FFXIII-2: 3.1 million

As you can see, the dropoff for XIII -> XIII-2 was worse... but not really by that much. I was expecting worse. I think it had bad numbers out of the gate.... but we shouldn't underestimate the discount/Greatest Hits sales of a game. It's not the disaster I had heard.

Yeah, this is a match that'd make sense to me. X was better received, but in the end there's much less interest in direct story sequels than proper new mainline games, and XIII-2 was coming off a much more poorly received game.

Maybe even more, the generation is almost over , so we have generational fatigue and on top of that a general lack if interest for the whole XIII subseries.

We haven't seen them go for THREE games before, so yeah, this will be kind of interesting to see really.

 

[Shinta]

You just forced me to check the numbers based on wikipedia articles. It's not a science, but paints a picture.

FFX: 6.6 million
FFX-2: 4 million

FFXIII: 6.2 million
FFXIII-2: 3.1 million

As you can see, the dropoff for XIII -> XIII-2 was worse... but not really by that much. I was expecting worse. I think it had bad numbers out of the gate.... but we shouldn't underestimate the discount/Greatest Hits sales of a game. It's not the disaster I had heard.

And XIII-2 had DLC.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

Good bye Wada

 

[Femmeworth]

I'll import the Japanese version, and then get the NA version day 1 also. Your point?

You just forced me to check the numbers based on wikipedia articles. It's not a science, but paints a picture.

FFX: 6.6 million
FFX-2: 4 million

FFXIII: 6.2 million
FFXIII-2: 3.1 million

As you can see, the dropoff for XIII -> XIII-2 was worse... but not really by that much. I was expecting worse. I think it had bad numbers out of the gate.... but we shouldn't underestimate the discount/Greatest Hits sales of a game. It's not the disaster I had heard.

That's shipped, not sold.

 

[AOC83]

You just forced me to check the numbers based on wikipedia articles. It's not a science, but paints a picture.

FFX: 6.6 million
FFX-2: 4 million

FFXIII: 6.2 million
FFXIII-2: 3.1 million

As you can see, the dropoff for XIII -> XIII-2 was worse... but not really by that much. I was expecting worse. I think it had bad numbers out of the gate.... but we shouldn't underestimate the discount/Greatest Hits sales of a game. It's not the disaster I had heard.

FF XIII-2 was discounted extremely fast. Saw it for 40€ 1 or 2 weeks after launch in local stores, amazon etc.

 

[CassSept]

Well if comparing to the DS then yes. The 3DS is like what 24m WW right now? If its to be believed to last 4-5 more years at this pace it should be able to surpass the gba 80m ww. Thats not bad at all.

edit: 3DS is at 30m WW

Pulled some quick data so as to compare the cosoles:

At the time 3DS released, PS3 was at 51.8 million, as of November 4, 2012 it was at 70 million = 18.8 million.

At the time 3DS released, Xbox 360 was at 53.6 million, as of February 11, 2013 it's at 76 million = 22.4 million sold

As of the end of the last year, 3DS was at 30 million sold. Unless PS3 pulled 10 million over the holiday season, 3DS was by far the best selling console worldwide.
I'm obviously not comparing it to DS and Wii as the sales sunk faster than a rock in the same time period.


(sorry for the offtopic, but the cold hard "NOPE"s were pretty funny considering that numbers say something completely different)

 

[pants]

Aww jis.

Not like anything will change though

 

[raven777]

You just forced me to check the numbers based on wikipedia articles. It's not a science, but paints a picture.

FFX: 6.6 million
FFX-2: 4 million

FFXIII: 6.2 million
FFXIII-2: 3.1 million

As you can see, the dropoff for XIII -> XIII-2 was worse... but not really by that much. I was expecting worse. I think it had bad numbers out of the gate.... but we shouldn't underestimate the discount/Greatest Hits sales of a game. It's not the disaster I had heard.

XIII-2 sold 3.1 million??? a lot more than I thought.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

You just forced me to check the numbers based on wikipedia articles. It's not a science, but paints a picture.

FFX: 6.6 million
FFX-2: 4 million

FFXIII: 6.2 million
FFXIII-2: 3.1 million

As you can see, the dropoff for XIII -> XIII-2 was worse... but not really by that much. I was expecting worse. I think it had bad numbers out of the gate.... but we shouldn't underestimate the discount/Greatest Hits sales of a game. It's not the disaster I had heard.

I wonder how many of those XIII-2 numbers where at bargain price. It's no secret that the game was overshipped.

 

[Shinta]

No point at all, like I thought.

 

[SpaceDrake]

I just want to point out that this is, IIRC, twice as deep in the hole as Square was after Spirits Within (which lost them ~$50 million, by sources I can find).

That is not a good place for this company to be.

I'm more worried about whether or not the Eidos side will be okay, as their output these past few years has been very good.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Just funny how frequently this gets repeated, based on no evidence at all. Is it because they're western, everyone just assumes they're raking in the money, even when others point out they're not?

Well, actually releasing videogames I can purchase in this curious area of the world known as 'The West' sort of helps Eidos' position over Square's "We got nothing" approach.

 

[Shinta]

Well, actually releasing videogames I can purchase in this curious area of the world known as 'The West' sort of helps Eidos' position over Square's "We got nothing" approach.

Not if they blow more money making, and marketing the games themselves than the amount they get back in sales. And there are more areas in the world besides just "The West."

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

Can we get the old Square or the old Enix back?


Or will even more games be branded Final Fantasy?

FF Revolution the dance game
FF Band the band Sim
FF Towns the town Sim (my life as king?)
FF racers (chocobo racing)

OMG it's too late!

 

[Femmeworth]

No point at all, like I thought.

You lot are fascinating.

XIII-2 sold 3.1 million??? a lot more than I thought.

Shipped.

 

[Pachterballs]

Vita does not have perfect hardware. The reason it is selling so poorly is because of the hardware. Big, bulky, doesn't have the ability to make phonecalls. It's about 4 years too late to the market. If Sony had released Vita in 2007 they would have had a fighting chance because the explosion in Apps and iPhone/Android hadn't happened yet, even 2008 would have been good. Vita as a device is outmoded and been made irrelevant by Android/iPhone.

lmao

that is the dumbest post.

if you want a phone, get a phone.

Not if they blow more money making tech demos than the amount they get back in sales.

fixed.

 

[Usobuko]

Aren't they were making money on smartphone/f2p browers game? Also, Square-Enix is profitable in the hand-held department no? Just a remake of Dragon Quest VII and it's basically a million seller in Japan alone. Seems like that money drained either came from Eidos or the prolonged development of both Versus and FFXIV.

 

[Tizoc]

Shipped.

...but did it sell 3.1 Million? ...and even if it did, what would make the 3.1 or more million sold a success/profit?

 

[AOC83]

Shipped.

And they overshipped drastically as far as we now.

 

[Eusis]

I just want to point out that this is, IIRC, twice as deep in the hole as Square was after Spirits Within (which lost them ~$50 million, by sources I can find).

That is not a good place for this company to be.

I'm more worried about whether or not the Eidos side will be okay, as their output these past few years has been very good.

Wow, that WOULD make hiring back Sakaguchi and others of the old Squaresoft guard look smart. Didn't realize it was THAT dire.

You lot are fascinating.

You're making it sound as if it's wrong to claim the FFXIII line is anything but putrid trash.

 

[massoluk]

Wow, woke up to the best news evar.

Good bye, Yoichi Wada, I won't miss you.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

lmao

that is the dumbest post.

if you want a phone, get a phone.

Which is what people are doing, in droves. While Vita continually sells like shit.

 

[Shinta]

fixed.

Agni's Philosphy had a staff of around 20 people, and it took a year to make. Not everyone worked on it for the whole year. A few of those were just concept artists. It's already paid for itself I think in generating interest for Luminous and SQEX Japan's next gen games. Not to mention, it's a good idea for them to have their next gen engine in place early, and it seems they do.

 

[Pie and Beans]

Not if they blow more money making, and marketing the games themselves than the amount they get back in sales. And there are more areas in the world besides just "The West."

Best to not make videogames at all then. Also make sure to not release finished ones with translations in other markets to make money. Go all in on an MMO in 2012/13, twice.

Eidos may not be taking the world by storm, but it sure is a good excuse to actually see that Square Enix logo at the start of a videogame I am playing.

I'm not even sure what youre arguing against with regards to areas with more importance than Europe and North America combined. Unless SE have been capitalising in China and India while we weren't looking?

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

...but did it sell 3.1 Million? ...and even if it did, what would make the 3.1 or more million sold a success/profit?

Probably not. The game did "sell" those...to retailers. But then they had to discount the game massively.

The game, surely, made a profit, but the point is that is showing that the FF brand is weakining at giant steps. Is a problem in the long run.

 

[Auto_aim1]

I just want to point out that this is, IIRC, twice as deep in the hole as Square was after Spirits Within (which lost them ~$50 million, by sources I can find).

That is not a good place for this company to be.

I'm more worried about whether or not the Eidos side will be okay, as their output these past few years has been very good.

They have a lot more money now than they did back then, so it's not severely damaging to them. But yeah, they do need to do something about it.

 

[Riposte]

I'll miss his goofy presence in the FFXIV live producer letters.

I think more than any Japanese dev, SE needs to address how they develop games. Nevermind the content, they seem to struggle with releasing games. We'll see how XIV ARR pans out.

EDIT: Speaking of which... I wonder if The Last Remnant PS3 is ever coming out.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

I'll miss his goofy presence in the FFXIV live producer letters.

I think more than any Japanese dev, SE needs to address how they develop games. Nevermind the content, they seem to struggle with releasing games. We'll see how XIV ARR pans out.

Oh, SHIT!

I'll miss that too. I'd guess he won't appear in the PvP anymore....

 

[Shinta]

Best to not make videogames at all then. Also make sure to not release finished ones with translations in other markets to make money. Go all in on an MMO in 2012/13, twice.

Eidos may not be taking the world by storm, but it sure is a good excuse to actually see that Square Enix logo at the start of a videogame I am playing.

I'm not even sure what youre arguing against with regards to more areas than Europe and North America combined. Unless SE have been capitalising in China and India while we weren't looking?

I like Eidos games a lot. I got DE: HR, I got Tomb Raider. TR is my GOTY so far. We're talking about profitability though, and their recent financial report. You're basically dodging the issue here.

They said it's sluggish sales of major console games in NA/EU, and that really could only mean Eidos games and Sleeping Dogs if we look at the period in question.

 

[Eusis]

Probably not. The game did "sell" those...to retailers. But then they had to discount the game massively.

The game, surely, made a profit, but the point is that is showing that the FF brand is weakining at giant steps. Is a problem in the long run.

I have a feeling it's the same situation for FFX-2 anyway, didn't that game go for $20 fairly quickly too?

I like Eidos games a lot. I got DE: HR, I got Tomb Raider. TR is my GOTY so far. We're talking about profitability though, and their recent financial report. You're basically dodging the issue here.

They said it's sluggish sales of major console games in NA/EU, and that really could only mean Eidos games if we look at the period in question.

Yeah, FFXIII-2 would've had to fucked up catastrophically... except I think that's in the prior FY, not this one, so unless they're counting handheld titles like Kingdom Hearts and Theatrhythm it pretty much falls squarely on Eidos output, like it or not.

 

[AOC83]

Best to not make videogames at all then. Also make sure to not release finished ones with translations in other markets to make money. Go all in on an MMO in 2012/13, twice.

Yeah, that´s one of the most stupid things a gaming company has ever done (and that´t really saying something) .

 

[BocoDragon]

Shipped.

Good point.

So XIII-2 not only dropped off worse than X->X-2, but those copies were sold at a massive discount (and some of which may clog the distribution channel today)....

...not to mention we live in a time of a massively expanded gaming audience and a multi-platform release.

XIII-2 was certainly a disappointment from the bean counters' perspective.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

I have a feeling it's the same situation for FFX-2 anyway, didn't that game go for $20 fairly quickly too?

Actually, I don't remember (bougth the game at full price ) but I barely saw games getting discounted so early back then.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

lmao

that is the dumbest post.

if you want a phone, get a phone.




fixed.

Not going to call it dumb but really if a video game console manufacturer decides to put phone in the thing that is close to just flat out losing identity. I dont think any video game company would want that.

 

[AOC83]

I like Eidos games a lot. I got DE: HR, I got Tomb Raider. TR is my GOTY so far. We're talking about profitability though, and their recent financial report. You're basically dodging the issue here.

They said it's sluggish sales of major console games in NA/EU, and that really could only mean Eidos games if we look at the period in question.

I think it´s more a combination of Square themselves and Eidos. Tomb Raider is a hit, but both Sleeping Dogs and Hitman sold somewhere between meh and bomb.

 

[KiNeSiS]

lmao

that is the dumbest post.

if you want a phone, get a phone.




fixed.

I know, right?

I never seen anyone on smartphones dick so hard.
No mater how good smart phones graphics get a yr or 4 from now it won't change the fact that the control input method completely sucks. Also the games will never be as large as a vita file size.

 

[Eusis]

Actually, I don't remember (bougth the game at full price ) but I barely saw games getting discounted so early back then.

The internet helps, but I do think the economic crash caused a lot of games to drop WAY faster than they used to. but I still don't think X-2 held its value for too long, and that had (still has) a lot of bad word of mouth.

XIII-2 was certainly a disappointment from the bean counters' perspective.

Well, if they ANTICIPATED that drop off in shipped copies then perhaps not, and certainly selling multi-millions is usually good, especially with how much X-2 recycled and its much shorter development time relative to XIII. However I don't think the piles of discounted copies paint a good image.

 

[BocoDragon]

Actually, I don't remember (bougth the game at full price ) but I barely saw games getting discounted so early back then.

Anecdotally, I don't either. I think it held its value while new copies were available.

 

[wsippel]

The problem is that this should´ve happened years ago. Nintendo(Iwata) made the mistake to not prepare themselves for the time after the Wii.
They had 6 years were they basically just needed to collect money from the Wii with barely any effort to build a competitive online infrastructure, prepare their teams for HD development and built a well designed, powerful but also reasonably priced hardware.

Not quite true. Nintendo also had to support the Wii (and to a lesser extent the DS) in the last six years, as 3rd parties wouldn't do it. They started moving on around 2010, which is also when first party software support for Wii dried up. I think they were aiming for a 2013 launch back then.

And they still managed to create a good online infrastructure with some forward thinking features and design a pretty cool piece of hardware even though the launch was rushed - there just wasn't enough time to exploit any of it correctly.

 

[Mr.Fresh]

I wonder who will take over.

 

[Celine]

Isn´t Iwata the guy who has the last word?

When Yamauchi stepped down as CEO it was said:

Nintendo has now fully revealed how the company will be structured at the top tier.

A board of six executives has been appointed to take control of all Nintendo’s operational matters, from development to distribution. The six appointees are Satoru Iwata, Atsushi Asada, Shigeru Miyamoto, Shinji Hatano, Genyo Takeda, and Yoshihiro Mori, all of who will work under close guidance of former president Yamauchi.

Though Satoru Iwata will hold the title of president, all decisions will be made jointly by the board of six. The concept behind the management structure is to ensure that all essential business matters receive equal consideration at board level.

 

[Aquamarine]

This is RIDICULOUSLY huge news, guys. Wada defined the direction of the company. He defined the new games.

The new guy could radically change the company into however he pleases...

Oh my god...

Wada has been in charge since Square Enix was FOUNDED, ten years ago.

Can't wait to see where the company will go under new management.



But the grim news that awaits us leaves me very worried about Square Enix's future in the video game industry.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...vises-full-year-forecast-expects-major-losses

Apparently Square Enix is NOT doing well at all. I imagine that Wada wouldn't step down unless the situation was dire. I wonder if this restructuring will lead them to spinoff or sell Eidos, if the NA / European markets are the problem areas?

 

[Shinta]

Good point.

So XIII-2 not only dropped off worse than X->X-2, but those copies were sold at a massive discount (and some of which may clog the distribution channel today)....

The "massive discount" thing is really overblown with XIII-2. Look at any game with a lot of sales on Steam and you see more discounts than XIII-2 got, only people call it progressive, forward-thinking pricing. People could get Sleeping Dogs for $30 on PC pre-ordered.

Also, games are more expensive in Japan, and it's sold in Yen, and they don't pay for overshipping like they do here. XIII-2 sold more in Japan than Eidos games did. It was actually the highest selling game of the year in Japan.

 

[Heart Attack]

What's up with people thinking Eidos games are sellers. Why do you guys think they had to be absorbed by another company. Other than Tomb Raider, their IPs aren't sellers. Deus Ex sold most of its copies at bargain bin prices, Sleeping Dogs wasn't that great of a seller as gaf wants you to believe, and Hitman Revolution Bombed to hell and back.

 

[duckroll]

I don't think anyone can use "Nintendo" and "good online infrastructure" in the same sentence and keep a straight face.

 

[Pie and Beans]

I like Eidos games a lot. I got DE: HR, I got Tomb Raider. TR is my GOTY so far. We're talking about profitability though, and their recent financial report. You're basically dodging the issue here.

They said it's sluggish sales of major console games in NA/EU, and that really could only mean Eidos games and Sleeping Dogs if we look at the period in question.

Well sure, they'd have to say that because theyre not releasing anything else of worth are they? No FF Versus, no KH3, FFX HD taking far longer than it should, killing the FF brand further with another Lightning game thats due out later this year, hoping somehow the MMO world is gonna kick in bigtime, and just a total lack of momentum in any of their Japanese development.

Sure you can point to Eidos games not selling a gazillion to keep the company's head above water, but the elephant in the room is the Japanese side not releasing hardly fucking anything at all when they used to be giants in this area.