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[Sorian]

I just finished reading this and i think this is the best explanation possible.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bioshock/comments/1b4fmx/my_detailed_ending_explanation_my_attempt_at_the/

I totally get why daisy fitzroy was freaked out.

So i read this and at the very ending the guy wrote about remaining big questions....

The Bioshock link. The story makes it clear that Bioshock/Rapture/Ryan/Little Sisters/Big Daddies were just another "infinite variable" of Columbia/Comstock/Elizabeth/Song Bird. This is troubling since it implies that the entire Bioshock story was just another derivative of the current story, and it also implies that that entire Bioshock universe ceases to exist once the infinite loop is closed. It's also very puzzling to figure out how a man born in the 1800's could end up becoming Andrew Ryan. Or how a man inspired to create a city through scripture, would end up as a the "godless industralist" that was Ryan.

Maybe I missed something but why is he linking Booker to Ryan? Or is that not what he is doing?

 

[Darkkn]

Didn't the baptism happen when you got to Columbia? How then would the Columbia get build if the decision point of Comstock/Booker happened on Columbia?

Also was there a purpose for those 3 player-actionable levers in the bottom floor of the Elizabeth -tower?

 

[Alienous]

Didn't the baptism happen when you got to Columbia? How then would the Columbia get build if the decision point of Comstock/Booker happened on Columbia?

Also was there a purpose for those 3 player-actionable levers in the bottom floor of the Elizabeth -tower?

There was a previous baptism, that Booker refused and Comstock accepted.

 

[SmithnCo]

Didn't the baptism happen when you got to Columbia? How then would the Columbia get build if the decision point of Comstock/Booker happened on Columbia?

Also was there a purpose for those 3 player-actionable levers in the bottom floor of the Elizabeth -tower?

This was a different baptism. The Columbia baptism is probably something Comstock put into effect because he HAD the previous baptism.

 

[Guess Who]

\Maybe I missed something but why is he linking Booker to Ryan? Or is that not what he is doing?

I think he's trying to say that Jack/Ryan/Little Sisters/Big Daddies/Rapture are one of the possible permutations of Booker/Comstock/Elizabeth/Songbird/Columbia. I don't think that's necessarily the point the game was trying to make - I don't think that it was saying "this is Booker and Elizabeth again, in a different universe" literally, but metaphorically, that stories like this happen in all sorts of universes in the multiverse. And then the part where they go to the sea full of lighthouses from the beginning of Infinite is referring only to the permutations of their specific story. Killing Booker before the baptism doesn't stop Rapture from happening in the Rapture universes, it only stops the Booker and Elizabeth stories from happening.

 

[Willkiller]

"The Bioshock link. The story makes it clear that Bioshock/Rapture/Ryan/Little Sisters/Big Daddies were just another "infinite variable" of Columbia/Comstock/Elizabeth/Song Bird. This is troubling since it implies that the entire Bioshock story was just another derivative of the current story, and it also implies that that entire Bioshock universe ceases to exist once the infinite loop is closed. It's also very puzzling to figure out how a man born in the 1800's could end up becoming Andrew Ryan. Or how a man inspired to create a city through scripture, would end up as a the "godless industralist" that was Ryan."

What if he's looking at it backwords? Way I saw it is that there is Infinite stories to be told, they all have a man, they all have a lighthouse. Some involving Booker, some involving Rapture, so many more involving characters and settings we haven't seen yet.

The story of Booker and Columbia was Infinite's story. Rapture was Bioshock 1's.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Oh man, I just got the title of this game. Bioshock Infinite

fuuuuuuuuuuu

 

[Scratch]

"The Bioshock link. The story makes it clear that Bioshock/Rapture/Ryan/Little Sisters/Big Daddies were just another "infinite variable" of Columbia/Comstock/Elizabeth/Song Bird. This is troubling since it implies that the entire Bioshock story was just another derivative of the current story, and it also implies that that entire Bioshock universe ceases to exist once the infinite loop is closed. It's also very puzzling to figure out how a man born in the 1800's could end up becoming Andrew Ryan. Or how a man inspired to create a city through scripture, would end up as a the "godless industralist" that was Ryan."

What if he's looking at it backwords? Way I saw it is that there is Infinite stories to be told, they all have a man, they all have a lighthouse. Some involving Booker, some involving Rapture, so many more involving characters and settings we haven't seen yet.

The story of Booker and Columbia was Infinite's story. Rapture was Bioshock 1's.

so this alludes that there could be infinite possibilities for sequels. damn ken. damn.

 

[Sorian]

I think he's trying to say that Jack/Ryan/Little Sisters/Big Daddies/Rapture are one of the possible permutations of Booker/Comstock/Elizabeth/Songbird/Columbia. I don't think that's necessarily the point the game was trying to make - I don't think that it was saying "this is Booker and Elizabeth again, in a different universe" literally, but metaphorically, that stories like this happen in all sorts of universes in the multiverse. And then the part where they go to the sea full of lighthouses from the beginning of Infinite is referring only to the permutations of their specific story. Killing Booker before the baptism doesn't stop Rapture from happening in the Rapture universes, it only stops the Booker and Elizabeth stories from happening.

Well if he is saying that Jack/Ryan/Little Sisters/Big Daddies/Rapture is one of the permutations (I can't get behind this theory yet) then it would indeed disappear with the drowning of booker. The whole point of drowning his is to "stabilize all these infinite loops which means they would all cease to exist.

 

[symphonask]

Had to in order to end the creation of all Comcasts from every world. Also failed multiple times.

So the Luteces' would have to manipulate multiple tears to get the multiple Bookers' to end the multiple Comstocks'.

How would the Luteces' know that they got every permutation of Comstock, though? Did they have a way of seeing all the different timelines similar to how Elizabeth could when she became omniscient?

edit: and getting way ahead of myself, what if in an alternate timeline Comstock never betrayed the Luteces' and thus in that timeline they are in cohorts still? - would the Luteces' we know still open a tear and send a Booker into that world as well?

 

[Guess Who]

Well if he is saying that Jack/Ryan/Little Sisters/Big Daddies/Rapture is one of the permutations (I can't get behind this theory yet) then it would indeed disappear with the drowning of booker. The whole point of drowning his is to "stabilize all these infinite loops which means they would all cease to exist.

Right, yeah, I'm saying that his interpretation of the Rapture scene is bunk. I agree with Willkiller above.

 

[Willkiller]

so this alludes that there could be infinite possibilities for sequels. damn ken. damn.

Of course! But they wouldn't even need to touch the multiverse thing, much like Bioshock 1 didn't. All we know is that there is always a lighthouse, always a man and always a city.

But what man? What motivates him? What city, where, when and how does it function?

Infinite possibilities for the fantastical.

 

[Horse Detective]

So all of the time lines where Comstock does exist had to happen, and Elizabeth had to see all of them (reaching 1984) before she could break the cycle right?

And the Lettuces could not intervene because they were killed before the answer is found right?

 

[APZonerunner]

I don't think you need to connect Rapture as another version of the Elizabeth/Booker/Comstock story in a literal sense; it's just the same ideas playing out in a very different fashion. There's hundreds of different versions of Columbia split by decisions and such, but there's probably also hundreds of different versions of Rapture playing out with different Jacks and Ryans.

Perhaps it's the case that this story is bound to repeat over and over again, but only in that sort of vague way - it won't be Columbia again, or Rapture again, but another would-be Utopia at another time, with those vague elements playing out again, rippling through the timelines.

Even with the loop closed, within that loop there's still a thousand different versions of that story playing out in a thousand different places, I think. Somewhere, in space, in the year 2500, there's a Mass Effect style Comstock/Ryan fighting a helmeted space marine Jack/Booker, and one in WW2, perhaps, and so on and so forth. It can be this rip in space time that permeates everything. The loop is closed, but the loop is also still going on within the loop, forever, because, well, it's a loop. What Elizabeth did, I think, stopped it from ever growing any larger, as it was getting more and more dangerous and leaking into more and more worlds by the moment.

As far as the connection between the games go, I think it makes it pretty clear that a lot of Columbia is borrowing directly from Rapture, so in that sense even though Columbia predates it, Rapture came 'first.' Fink talks in an audio log about observing a brilliant Biologist through a tear in order to create Vigors; what's the betting he was observing the people who created Plasmids? I feel that's likely, somehow, given the similarities between the worlds. I feel like through that connection Fink could've been taking from Big Daddies for Handimen and Songbird, too.

Of course, the viewing of Rapture would never have happened of Letuce hadn't opened the tears in the first place... so it's complex. Wibbly wobbly timey wimey, as another time manipulator would say...

 

[Scratch]

Of course! But they wouldn't even need to touch the multiverse thing, much like Bioshock 1 didn't. All we know is that there is always a lighthouse, always a man and always a city.

But what man? What motivates him? What city, where, when and how does it function?

Infinite possibilities for the fantastical.

i like it. it literally sets up what will make a bioshock game part of the series. just as how some games have their titular characters, bioshock will have the lighthouse, the man, and the city.

oh man i can't wait to see what crazy setting Ken chooses next

Spoiler

underground

 

[Plasmid]

I think he's trying to say that Jack/Ryan/Little Sisters/Big Daddies/Rapture are one of the possible permutations of Booker/Comstock/Elizabeth/Songbird/Columbia. I don't think that's necessarily the point the game was trying to make - I don't think that it was saying "this is Booker and Elizabeth again, in a different universe" literally, but metaphorically, that stories like this happen in all sorts of universes in the multiverse. And then the part where they go to the sea full of lighthouses from the beginning of Infinite is referring only to the permutations of their specific story. Killing Booker before the baptism doesn't stop Rapture from happening in the Rapture universes, it only stops the Booker and Elizabeth stories from happening.

This, I think Elizabeth was showing there's always going to be a man with a dream and a city with a lighthouse, not that booker dying stops it. Because its in a completely different universe.

 

[bidguy]

"The Bioshock link. The story makes it clear that Bioshock/Rapture/Ryan/Little Sisters/Big Daddies were just another "infinite variable" of Columbia/Comstock/Elizabeth/Song Bird. This is troubling since it implies that the entire Bioshock story was just another derivative of the current story, and it also implies that that entire Bioshock universe ceases to exist once the infinite loop is closed. It's also very puzzling to figure out how a man born in the 1800's could end up becoming Andrew Ryan. Or how a man inspired to create a city through scripture, would end up as a the "godless industralist" that was Ryan."

What if he's looking at it backwords? Way I saw it is that there is Infinite stories to be told, they all have a man, they all have a lighthouse. Some involving Booker, some involving Rapture, so many more involving characters and settings we haven't seen yet.

The story of Booker and Columbia was Infinite's story. Rapture was Bioshock 1's.

Am I missing something here ? Who wrote this ?
Booker becoming Ryan is nonsense. Booker is Booker and Ryan is Ryan. It's like you said. Infinite is Booker's story and Bioshock 1 was Jack's or Ryan's. They simply used Rapture as a gateway in this game nothing more.

 

[Sorian]

This, I think Elizabeth was showing there's always going to be a man with a dream and a city with a lighthouse, not that booker dying stops it. Because its in a completely different universe.

Ah I see, so we are just killing the infinite/columbia loop. But every other setting they could potentially use will also be in its own multiverse loop.

 

[Willkiller]

I like the fact that all through the story the stakes get higher and higher to the point that you see near-modern New York being destroyed, but in the end it's really just a teardrop in the ocean in the grand scheme of things. Millions of Universes with their own story, their own people and their own problems. In those Universes they don't even have Elizabeths, Bookers or Raptures.

So ultimately it's not important really, but to the player, who has developed a relationship for these characters it's everything.

 

[Dinosaur Tamer]

So, how many realities are there? "Infinite?". There's a universe where Lutece happens to be born a boy, and goes through all of the same qualifications, writes the same books...

Yes, since there are "infinite" versions of her, it's plausible that at least one is an exact male copy. Or at least close enough to look like a twin and end her sentences.

Why would going back and killing Booker before the baptism stop the Comstock's who already exist?

Because he cannot exist in the present or future, as long as Booker dies before the baptism.

Why couldn't they go back further, and stop him from taking part in Wounded Knee?

Because they did not want to erase or change all the Bookers from the multiverse. They only wanted to erase all the Comstocks. Think of a subcategory containing every Booker that went through with the baptism. There is some collateral damage though, since every Booker that went to that lake but eventually decided against the baptism ceased to exist as well (like the one the player controls).

Stopping Booker from taking part in Wounded Knee could have all sorts of unpredictable consequences. Like erasing Anna from existence in every universe.

Wait, Wounded Knee. Why does Comstock take credit for taking part in Wounded Knee, when that was his un-baptised self? He remembers, and knows who Booker (he) is?

Why would he not know who he is? He "only" changed his name and had a near death experience, which he perceived as meeting an angel. He did not want to remain Booker the war criminal. That does not mean he doesn't remember him.

I find this question to be particularly interesting, because there are some dialog lines from Booker and several voxophones during the war hero part I could not make sense of while playing through the game, but they make a lot of sense now.
Booker is full of regret, while talking about Wounded Knee and seems unable to cope with what he did, while Slate seems to see him as a hero.
A voxophone record of Comstock has him reflecting on Wounded Knee in a different way. He pretty much justifies what he did with the respect it earned him from his comrades. This makes sense, because Comstock thinks of himself as a great man, who was cleansed from his sins and just did what he had to do on his way to become a spiritual and political leader, while Booker just sees himself as a washed up veteran and war criminal who slaughtered innocent women. They are the same person, but they still have very different views on who they actually are.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

I like the fact that all through the story the stakes get higher and higher to the point that you see near-modern New York being destroyed, but in the end it's really just a teardrop in the ocean in the grand scheme of things. Millions of Universes with their own story, their own people and their own problems. In those Universes they don't even have Elizabeths, Bookers or Raptures.

So ultimately it's not important really, but to the player, who has developed a relationship for these characters it's everything.

It really just snowballed into this bigger and bigger doomsday scenario. Just trying to get this girl which leads to several people's lives being in danger, which leads to Vox Populi/Comstock war revenging the entire city, to uh, Comstock's personal army of airships destroying NYC(and maybe the world!?), to lolmultiverse

I mean, I guess Booker being with baby Anna is nice, but to us, OUR Elizabeth killed everyone she loved, lost her personality, tortured like crazy, killed her father which also killed her. String of bad luck for her, I would've stayed in the tower!

 

[Horse Detective]

The only character that is actually self aware is old Elizabeth.

All this time, I thought the Lettuces were this games G-man

 

[Willkiller]

Old Elizabeth broke my heart

 

[Horse Detective]

Gaben is probably shaking his head in anger, knowing that he probably can't use the multiverse plot. lol

 

[Bucca]

Gaben is probably shaking his head in anger, knowing that he probably can't use the multiverse plot. lol

Half Life 3 delayed another 15 years due to rewriting.

 

[Sn4ke_911]

Old Elizabeth broke my heart

Yeah that was so shocking.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

So our Booker...is just one of hundreds of Bookers than, right? Sometimes he dies a hero of the Vox Populi, sometimes he doesn't make it all the way, etc.

But no matter what, he always flips that coin(which is always heads, as you see on that chalkboard), and he never rows("He won't row?" "No, he NEVER rows!")

 

[Nemesis_]

Gaben is probably shaking his head in anger, knowing that he probably can't use the multiverse plot. lol

Good, it's not like he could do it this well anyway.

Yeah that was so shocking.

This scene was so frightening and so good. Lord, I have such intense memories about it

 

[WanderingWind]

So our Booker...is just one of hundreds of Bookers than, right? Sometimes he dies a hero of the Vox Populi, sometimes he doesn't make it all the way, etc.

But no matter what, he always flips that coin(which is always heads, as you see on that chalkboard), and he never rows("He won't row?" "No, he NEVER rows!")

Actually it was "No, he DOESN'T row." Which didn't make sense at the time, but totally does now...haha

 

[symphonask]

How would the Luteces' know that they got every permutation of Comstock, though? Did they have a way of seeing all the different timelines similar to how Elizabeth could when she became omniscient?

edit: and getting way ahead of myself, what if in an alternate timeline Comstock never betrayed the Luteces' and thus in that timeline they are in cohorts still? - would the Luteces' we know still open a tear and send a Booker into that world as well?

anyone?

 

[Willkiller]

Yeah that was so shocking.

One of my favourite moments in the game is watching her dance on the end of the pier, finally free and enjoying the simple things in life. It was just heart breaking to hear her talking like Comstock and see her without her innocence, full of hat.....AH FUCK I LOVE THIS GAME SO MUCH

 

[jacksepticeye]

From that link:

this sort of bothers me. i can't really understand the connection to how the events of Bioshock 1 are parallel to Bioshock Infinite. sure there are similar themes, but they take place in different time periods, with completely different characters. Hopefully I, or someone else, can find a more solid connection.

for now, i suppose i can just accept that Rapture is a derivative of Columbia. honestly, I hope there's something more than that though.

Time is virtually irrelevant when you can tear through it at any moment. That's why all the songs in Columbia are from the future

 

[Sorian]

So our Booker...is just one of hundreds of Bookers than, right? Sometimes he dies a hero of the Vox Populi, sometimes he doesn't make it all the way, etc.

But no matter what, he always flips that coin(which is always heads, as you see on that chalkboard), and he never rows("He won't row?" "No, he NEVER rows!")

Yup, just their way of showing that some things never change while some things do change. "Constants and variables"

anyone?

My answer to your question is that the twins didn't know how to get every permutation of Comstock. They were just redoing this scenario over and over again until they got a booker that could make Elizabeth see all timelines. Then it was up to Elizabeth to take care of every Comstock permutation. Even in the scenario that you brought up where the twins still worked with Comstock, these twins are already jumping through the different multiverses.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Actually it was "No, he DOESN'T row." Which didn't make sense at the time, but totally does now...haha

I'm playing it again, a lot of the internal logic holds up. Soooo much foreshadowing. "Anna...Anna...." "No, It's me: Elizabeth!"

 

[Plasmid]

So Elizabeth accepts her death along with bookers? They both end together?

 

[Sn4ke_911]

This scene was so frightening and so good. Lord, I have such intense memories about it

One of my favourite moments in the game is watching her dance on the end of the pier, finally free and enjoying the simple things in life. It was just heart breaking to hear her talking like Comstock and see her without her innocence, full of hat.....AH FUCK I LOVE THIS GAME SO MUCH

Couldn't agree more.

 

[IMACOMPUTA]

Okey Dokey, but this will likely be very long

So little backstory, Bioshock 1 is my 2nd favourite game of all time, closely behind Half Life 2, which exceeds it only because the combat in the half life universe is far superior. Bioshock being up there, towering over other games with better mechanics, better set pieces is because it was the first game I remember (other than hl2) where I was introduced to a world that felt real, plausible, yet fantastical at the same time. There was something wonderfully romantic about Rapture, beautifully coloured and lighted, one of the few games where, when you saw a door you couldn't go through you never thought it was painted on, just another part of the city. On weekend confirmed, a video games podcast, a few weeks ago Garnett Lee talked about his work as a landscape architect and specifically how people design zoos, the good ones, to let you feel like you are among the animals, because you are never exposed to artificial walls, the area flows so well. Bioshock 1 did this for me, it was glorious and for all its faults Bioshock 2 similarly was wonderful, if only for letting me explore more rapture.

So suffice to say, I am a huge Bioshock fan. I am not however a fan of Bioshock infinite. So lets start at the beginning.

The beginning of Infinite is fantastic, leading up to the game I was completely underwhelmed by what I had seen, I am not going to make any bones about it, I wanted Rapture, in fact what I really wanted was Rapture in its prime, I disliked the aesthetic of this new city, the colour pallet especially. I literally bought the game because the price was too good not to (Thanks GMG!).

Having loaded up the game I was pleased with some of the initial nods to the opening of Bioshock, it was a good looking game and the first half hour, where you emerge into the cathedral and out into the open, I thought the game was stunning. I had just come off a play of Dishonored, which is a game I hate more than any other game in existence, to a world which was wonderful and vibrant, humming birds and great use of lighting. I was in love with this game, the tutorials were great and Columbia felt like an absolutely awesome place to be. The game nodded on and eventually you turn into shoot-em-up mode, which is fine, I was having fun with collectibles and radio logs and, although it didnt feel much like a Bioshock game I was having legitimate fun with the mechanics. The Vigors were good, the combat was better than Bioshock and the side missions proved their worth, all in all the game was plodding along well.

Then we meet Elizabeth, now a little more backstory there was one, singular thing which gave me hope for this game. An E3 Demo some time ago showed footage of Elizabeth (Hence for known as liz) reviving a dead horse and suddenly WOOSH Paris, 1980's and my jaw was on the floor. I thought, holy shit, time travel :O id love to see what these folks do in different time periods. Considering my initial distaste for Columbia I hoped you could have levels in 1984, travel forward to the future, then back again, what a wonderful escape. We meet liz and one of the first things you see her do is open up a "tear" and I was like, fuck yeah lets do this. And for the rest of the goddamn game all it does is tease you with these possibilities. Perhaps my biggest and most heart wrenching dissapointment in this game is that it only ever nods to these moments, the odd song from the future, and never explores them.

This is the crux of the issue for me, I wanted this game to go in one direction and it went in another, and the direction it went in felt so anti climactic that I stopped caring about the story, once I came to realise that instead of exploring time, opening up areas with new pallets and mechanics, all we did was do the same damn thing just in a slightly altered timeline. Several times you go through one area, open a tear then retread that area because something has been altered that pushes the story forward, and honestly it got repetitive and boring. It feels like such a wasted opportunity, who wouldnt have loved to step into that Paris backdrop and have to find a tear back to the present, rather than use a tear as a convenient way to not have to design new levels, but instead force you back from whence you came.

Onto characters, in Bioshock your character isnt given a huge backstory, one can interpret things but you feel as if you are you, plodding into this world, very much like half life they remove as much as possible from your character to allow you to step into his shoes. Booker is a dick, I dont want to be Booker, I find nothing likeable about him, his interactions, his voice actor does well but I dont want to play Booker. At no point in the game did I feel sorry for him, care for him, want him to "win", I think its a fundamental flaw in a Bioshock game to remove the user from the character he is playing.

Elizabeth is complicated, its hard to feel for her because all of her interactions revolve around this character I hate, I dont believe her voice actress is nearly as good as Bookers voice actor. Comstock is an intriguing character and provides a very nice coupling to Andrew Ryan, the "evil" guy who prods you along, giving you pieces of information, enough to keep you eager to find logs and messages. Daisy is kind of nothing, I understand the route they were going down, that sort of absolute power corrupts absolutely, one is a mirror of the other kind of thing, but they dont give you much of anything to tie to the character in regards to emotional connection. Her character was kind of nothing, there as an example of how tears change things but still, no care for her. The Lucetes (sp?) were mostly annoying.

Onto the ending, Booker is Comstock, different worlds, stole Anna from one tear to another, different tears, stars, doors, rapture, always lighthouse alwasy a city. Now here is where I take offence on a larger scale, and that is because they introduce Rapture into this nonsense. If Infinite had ended without a trip to rapture, I would have gladly just ignored thsi game as a terrible misunderstanding and forgiven Irrational. You want to create a game where tears exist, fine, you want a floating city, fine, you want to have a stupidly convoluted ending to a game where none of the characters are likeable, go ahead, dont call it Bioshock. This game, to me, is not a Bioshock game, how dare you introduce this huge, huge thing, into a Universe when it has no right to be there. Im not saying Irrational has to play by all the rules set out in Bioshock, but I am saying dont slap the Bioshock name on a product that bears so very little to what I consider a Bioshock game to be.

Badly formatted, rambling in places, best I could do having just finished the game.

I really don't agree with any of this, but of course you're entitled to your opinion. I definitely thought Elizabeth's voice actor was great and definitely on par with Booker's.

What I really find troubling is the fact that it "bears so very little" to what you consider a Bioshock game to be?
There has only been one "canon" Bioshock game before it. How have you determined what a Bioshock game is to be from one game?

As a huge Bioshock fan, I thought the ties to Rapture were amazing. As well as the "there's always a man, always a lighthouse, always a city" bit.

 

[ThaiGrocer]

Female Lettuce: "I suppose the brand is his hair shirt, as he is ours."

I had to look up what hair shirt meant. I'm not exactly sure what she means in this case, but the Lettuce twins might be guilty about something or he is simply is a reminder for a reason I'm not exactly sure of.

 

[Baconsaurus Rex]

Yeah that was so shocking.

Saw it coming unfortunately.

 

[Sorian]

So Elizabeth accepts her death along with bookers? They both end together?

Maybe, maybe not. It's up to your interpretation, when they drowned him did they kill every Booker and Comstock or just every Comstock? It's possible that they only drowned the Booker that accepted baptism. Personally, I believe they did kill every Book/Comstock permutation which also made it so that Anna was never born. If they had intended for us to think that they only killed the Comstock permutation then they would have had the priest start the baptism and then the Elizabeth's hold Booker down during it till he died.

 

[WJD]

Need a gif of that fucking head on the wheelchair. So disturbing.

 

[Guess Who]

Maybe, maybe not. It's up to your interpretation, when they drowned him did they kill every Booker and Comstock or just every Comstock? It's possible that they only drowned the Booker that accepted baptism.

But our Booker didn't take the baptism, and he was drowned, so...

 

[Sorian]

Need a gif of that fucking head on the wheelchair. So disturbing.

The entire fucking Comstock house was disturbing. I had just commented to myself before walking in there that they didn't capture that "horror" aspect that I always felt going through the first bioshock. Silly me, since that whole area brought it back in spades (and did it better IMO).

But our Booker didn't take the baptism, and he was drowned, so...

The way I see it, when we step through those doors, we retain our memories but we are stepping into the bodies of ourselves that are meant for that dimension (Elizabeth, of course, being the exception and the twins to a smaller degree because they've all learned to live outside of reality at this point). So yes, the Booker they drowned is the one we played and has memories of not taking the baptism but through that door, he was never given the option to accept or decline baptism, he was drowned. Which is why I think all Bookers and Comstocks are dead but I see how they were trying to leave it to interpretation. (There should be no interpretation but they had to throw in that after credits scene to throw a wrench in things and make people "discuss.")

 

[Angelus Errare]

For people getting hung up on Rapture and equating it with Comstock being Ryan, Booker being Jack. Think about it this way

In another universe Sony might not have made Playstation in 1999, but some company would have. That company isn't explicitly Sony, Elizabeth is saying regardless of the timeline, there will always be a lighthouse and a city, whether it's a guy name Billy Bob or someone named John Doe. A city will always exist in some form, it's not to be taken literal that the person who enters it will always be Booker or a derivative of Booker.

 

[Dinosaur Tamer]

But our Booker didn't take the baptism, and he was drowned, so...

That's true. But what about all those Bookers, who never even went to the lake.

 

[jacksepticeye]

The entire fucking Comstock house was disturbing. I had just commented to myself before walking in there that they didn't capture that "horror" aspect that I always felt going through the first bioshock. Silly me, since that whole area brought it back in spades (and did it better IMO).

Best part "Now to get elizabe... HOLY FUCK BOY OF SILENCE"

 

[WJD]

Best part "Now to get elizabe... HOLY FUCK BOY OF SILENCE"

Fuck those fuckers.

First time I saw one I panicked and unloaded a shotgun shell in it's face. Big mistake.

 

[ThaiGrocer]

That's true. But what about all those Bookers, who never even went to the lake.

At the very least, no Comcast.

Fuck those fuckers.

First time I saw one I panicked and unloaded a shotgun shell in it's face. Big mistake.

I proudly went solid snake on the second run. Disappointed that it cannot be avoided at least two times. First time is to teach you, the second time is that surprise moment.

 

[Moobabe]

Why was everyone in the Comstock house insane? And why did they only react to sound?

I thought of them as like the babbling versions of people you've just killed when you switch instances earlier in the game; and maybe those weird sound warden things produce tears when they "shout"?

 

[destrudo]

Have they said much about why a lot of the pre release stuff isn't in the game, or was shuffled to significantly different places? The 'Revenge of the Jedi' tear ends up right at the start of the game, seen through the observation window in the tower - very different from her accidentally ripping it open trying to revive the horse. As soon as she realized she could raise the dead I was waiting for that horse scene - and it never came. Also the non-hostile NPCs that could turn enemy - seems it was a bigger thing than it ended up being. The postman you could save which isn't in there, too. Probably more. Was the game changed significantly, or were they deliberately building red herrings? The moment when the Songbird takes Elizabeth is significantly different to a prerelease demo, for instance.

I'm just going to look at the unreleased material as alternate timelines, lol.