The credits are worth watching for that and some other footage as well.
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SPOILER Bioshock Infinite SPOILER discussion
- Thread starter thomasmahler
- Start date
The credits are worth watching for that and some other footage as well.
Lionheart1827
Member
I'd have to agree with the original Bioshock being more impactful to me. I thought Infinite was amazing and one of the best experiences I've had in awhile, but I still like the original better.
Few questions/observations:
1) What was with the "God Only Knows" Beach Boys cover? I was smiling when I heard it but it made no sense giving the time the game takes place(unless it was related to one of those tears where you hear newer modern music.
2) Columbia was an awesome world, but Rapture still takes the cake for me. The 40s-50s style was still in my opinion better done. After the airship part when you appear underwater behind a glass pane I was thinking "Oh man, looks just like Bioshock, and then a pathway revealed itself and then the outer part of the city started revealing itself and I'm like "oh shit its Rapture!." Excellent.
3) I kind of miss the hacking minigames from the first games. If I'm not mistaken I think a lot of people here didnt really like that, but it was nice doing something other than just shooting everything. Same thing with the photos(even though it could be a pain in the ass)
4) I was also disappointed that Infinite never let you explore previous areas like Bioshock did. I was hoping when you were going after the songbird that was going to somehow be your travel hub thing, but I was disappointed that I missed out on a bunch of things on my first playthrough thinking I'd be able to just revisit areas. I know it wouldn't really work correctly with the story since Columbia looks like its up in flames later in the game. But it would've been cool to have a hub that let you go back to a "point of no return" part of the game, and you can head back to previous tears somehow and revisit the older areas.
5) The last area on the airship was a pain in the ass, not looking forward to that on 1999 mode.
Few questions/observations:
1) What was with the "God Only Knows" Beach Boys cover? I was smiling when I heard it but it made no sense giving the time the game takes place(unless it was related to one of those tears where you hear newer modern music.
2) Columbia was an awesome world, but Rapture still takes the cake for me. The 40s-50s style was still in my opinion better done. After the airship part when you appear underwater behind a glass pane I was thinking "Oh man, looks just like Bioshock, and then a pathway revealed itself and then the outer part of the city started revealing itself and I'm like "oh shit its Rapture!." Excellent.
3) I kind of miss the hacking minigames from the first games. If I'm not mistaken I think a lot of people here didnt really like that, but it was nice doing something other than just shooting everything. Same thing with the photos(even though it could be a pain in the ass)
4) I was also disappointed that Infinite never let you explore previous areas like Bioshock did. I was hoping when you were going after the songbird that was going to somehow be your travel hub thing, but I was disappointed that I missed out on a bunch of things on my first playthrough thinking I'd be able to just revisit areas. I know it wouldn't really work correctly with the story since Columbia looks like its up in flames later in the game. But it would've been cool to have a hub that let you go back to a "point of no return" part of the game, and you can head back to previous tears somehow and revisit the older areas.
5) The last area on the airship was a pain in the ass, not looking forward to that on 1999 mode.
The One Who Knocks
Member
Elizabeth can only kill every Booker if Comstock exists. Comstock can only exist if any Booker accepts the baptism. That's the paradox. Accepting the baptism leads to Booker never making the choice because every Booker is dead. A paradoxical loop occurs, which is destroyed by feedback, changing the variable at the baptism (Booker can accept or reject) to a constant (Booker must reject or otherwise a paradox occurs).
EDIT:
Jeremiah Fink's brother listened to, and made, music from listening through the tears. The bolded assumption is correct but it's extremely heavily implied in a Voxophone and the existence of out of place music practically confirms it to be correct.
That really was such a visually amazing scene and then just suddenly bursting through the clouds to a snow covered area.
And then...snow. Candles, stairs, Elizabeth...amazing moment.
Yep. And not just swirling with snow, but also lit by countless warm, flickering candles, and surrounded by statues.
The atmosphere... THE ATMOSPHERE.
SammiiDoogles
Member
It's always implied that someone is using music from the future, the most obvious explanation for this would be via tears. You later come across a composer's house - one of the Fink Brothers - where you find that he does in fact take music from the future via tears and pass it off as his own and has used it to get rich. There's a bunch of anachronistic songs in the game, that's just the most prominent.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
The creepiest thing about Comstock House was that old Elizabeth propganda video with that damn music and Comstock's eyes zoomin in, with the various words flash on screen(BOOKER, PROPHET, ANNA)
Hellsing321
Member
There are a couple of Voxaphones that talk about this but it was Fink's Brother(I think) who would use the tears to hear music from the 80's and rip it off.
So basically you mean that Booker is only killed in all the different realities where he accepts the baptism. In those realities he's killed, Comstock, Elizabeth and Columbia are never born, so those realities are erased.
What are left are all the possibilites where he refuses the baptism. One of them has him becoming a dectective and living with Anna.
EliteArtist
Member
Is there an explanation for why some of the tears were red? It's not like there was a difference in opening them. There were blue tears that just put out audio too (at comstock house). Seems like an odd differentiation for similar purposes
For me, it was the almost fetishistic collection of masks that was most unnerving. Not just any masks, but porcelain ones with creepy hairline cracks and sunken eye sockets. Some straight up "Saw" shenangians there.
Red is future stuff, imo.
It was pretty creepy sneaking around to not alert the siren guys and suddenly see a wheelchair roll towards you with a porcelain ben franklin head lol
The Xtortionist
Member
I thought it was interesting how the only mask with lit-up eyes was the Comstock mask.
SpartanForce
Member
Thanks man.
So in the post-credits he has no debt to pay and is free to be with anna?
How old is Booker in 1912?
If he is Comstock why he is so old in 1912 in the alternative line?
If he could take the thing in Rapture (Only jack and rian could use that) that means what? He is related to rian?
This game is so good but so fucking confusing, I mean there are thousands and thousands of alternative universes?
Why is Anna so powerfull? Was that tower holding her power? Is she god?
SegaManAU
Gold Member
Ha, I immediately crouched behind a pillar or something when that happened, lol.
Huh, neat observation. The only living "founder," perhaps?
Lionheart1827
Member
Wow, I never really made that connection as stuff like that tends to go right over my head.
Thanks, this is why I come to the spoiler discussion threads to find these answers
I did snap a couple of those in my playthrough but they have the HUD, sadly
click for 1920x1200
ThaiGrocer
Member
Fine engineering. And Close Encounters of the Third Kind fans.
The Xtortionist
Member
Infinite's aesthetics and the emotions they create are so next-level
Lionheart1827
Member
Also had another question. Does anything in the game change if you pick the Cage or Bird brooch thing that Elizabeth wears? I picked the bird, but wasn't sure if it actually changes anything other than what shes wearing.
A few things that have not been explained....one...why is the chair that get Booker into Columbia the same chair that is seen in two key scenes, both times where you rescue elizabeth (one chair is in a side room before you meet elizabeth, the second is the chair she is in when she is experimented on)
two....why do the twins bring you to their world?
two....why do the twins bring you to their world?
toastyToast
Member
I had trouble reconciling this because it didn't occur to me that Elizabeth is the one who kills Booker (as obvious as that is). She is incapable of killing pre-divergence Booker because she only exists in the realities where Comstock is born. Something that obfuscates this somewhat is Elizabeth's universe jumping to find a reality in which Booker accepts the baptism. Prior to that she goes to a dimension where he rejects, what is her level of agency there? Was she an observer or could she have interacted with the people in that dimension? No one acknowledges her but still, it's confusing. Added to that, there wasn't a Booker of 20 years ago that post-Columbia destroying Booker saw in the 3rd person. He was in his body. That's a hard thing to ignore. Then you've got the same 40 year old Booker in the scene where Elizabeth drowns his younger self during the baptism. She didn't elimnate the man who went to Columbia who in fact was NOT Comstock, so why is the player viewing the game from his perspective.
The ending would have sucked when viewed from an outside perspective but, it would have been a hell of a lot more palatable.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Jumping off a rail in the game feels right. I think it's the way Booker puts his hands in front of him, then he lands and they go behind him. Shit feels...graceful, even.
Jumping down stairs feels good in this game. I know that's a weird thing to say, but it's true.
Jumping down stairs feels good in this game. I know that's a weird thing to say, but it's true.
It exists in one of the many parallel realities, but it doesn't really confirm anything about a supposed connection for either Elizabeth, Comstock or Booker and Rapture. The only thing we can draw from it is that most of the tech in Columbia was made possible by ripping off designs in Rapture seen via tears (much like most of the pop music in Columbia is plagerised by 1980s music).
Some have said that in BioShock 1 there is mention of the fact that the Bathyspheres in Rapture are only operational to those who share Andrew Ryans DNA, but I have yet to see any evidence to the fact, and don't recall any notes/tape recordings that mention that from Bio1.
sssstententen
Member
dunno if anyone posted this, but I'm freaking out
4chan said:
ThaiGrocer
Member
1. Fink or it was really hard to model and animate that chair
2. To atone their "sins" and to set things in motion for their fix.
The One Who Knocks
Member
No, it's not that he's only killed in those realities, it's that those realities turn into a paradox. He is drowned in every reality (before any choice is made, at this point there are no acception timelines, there are no rejection timelines, there are only "Booker goes to the baptism to make a choice" timelines) by Elizabeth, this is stated directly. He is killed before the choice is made. For Elizabeth to murder every Booker though, at least a single Booker must have accepted baptism which means that single Booker must become Comstock which means that Comstock steals Anna which leads to the creation of omnipotent Elizabeth which leads to her murdering every Booker. This loop can be seen in EatChildren's timeline here:
Basically, accepting the baptism leads to a paradox, because if one can accept the paradox they already died. No Booker can ever accept the baptism, so every Booker must reject it. Because every Booker must reject it to avoid the creation of a paradox, the rejection choice is turned into a constant. The ability to accept the baptism (and thus the events of the game) are erased. It's no longer "what Booker chooses at the baptism" it's "Booker chooses to reject it".
All of the red events are basically cuts off, they become an impossibility due to their paradoxical nature.
Of course, the end result is the same as the bolded, but there is a slight difference between "Elizabeth murders all Bookers" and "Elizabeth only murders Bookers that become Comstock" in that the latter goes against what Elizabeth says, despite being an easier situation to comprehened.
The first bolded bolded, I believe it's merely as a way to show Booker precisely where the deviation occurs. At the very end, she leaves the decision as to whether or not he is sure he wishes to destroy Comstock up to him, asking before the final door. We are merely observers, and we observe through the eyes of Booker since that's who we are in the game. It would make more sense if we were merely looking at another Booker, I agree, but it wouldn't have the 'impact' upon the player. If you want to work around that you could say that stepping through the door turns you into you as opposed to a tear where the two of you simultaneously exist. Likewise, she is capable of interacting because she can 'control' the probability space, as we see when she drowns every Booker. As for the second bolded bit, she does. She drowns every single Booker. Every single Booker is drowned by Elizabeth. Only Bookers that accept the baptism lead to Comstock's existnce which leads to Elizabeth's omnipotence which leads to Elizabeth murdering every Booker before he accepts or rejects. Because only the acception choice leads to Elizabeth's presence (if we want to assume she's, literally, present) and murdering every Booker, only the acception choice leads to a paradox; as a result, rejection becomes the only option, no Comstock exists so no omnipotent Elizabeth exists so every Booker is never murdered.
The idea of the ending, whereby every Booker is murdered before the choice so every Booker must reject to avoid being murdered is so completely different from how we would normally think that it's pretty difficult to fully get to grasp with, so to speak. We would naturally assume that if every Booker dies before the choice, no Booker can reject or accept, but this isn't true when the murderer's existence is a paradox dependant on one of the choice's variables.
WHOA
HOLY SHIT. That's... Whoa. I see to sit down.
That's definitely Songbird.
Booker and Elizabeth were in the Rapture Metro while Jack was in Fort Frolic dealing with Cohen.
Yes, 100 percent agree. Running, in particular, has just the right amount of bobbing and tilt, and when you jump, there's the appropriate sense of momentum and athleticism.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Btw the three songs I recognized
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOMyS78o5YI (the quartet)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIb6AZdTr-A (the organ on the beach)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRLG_zYiQs4 (the black woman sings during the revolution)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOMyS78o5YI (the quartet)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIb6AZdTr-A (the organ on the beach)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRLG_zYiQs4 (the black woman sings during the revolution)
TriniTrin
war of titties grampa
I'll be replaying bioshock to listen for this for sure!
ThaiGrocer
Member
XANDER CAGE
Member
If this is true, that's amazing.
Thing is, they clearly illustrate how when a person from one dimension jumps through a tear, they merge with the person in the reality they've transitioned to.
Basically every time Elizabeth brings Booker into a new reality, he becomes that Booker, and the memories of that Booker eventually merge with his (marked by nosebleeds). The only way to stop the loop of Comstocks being born and stealing baby Elizabeths is for Booker, of his own free will, to jump to the point of baptism and choose to end his life before making the decision.
Elizabeth becomes an entity outside of the space-time continuum when her powers are fully realized, free from the restrictions of the inhibitor machine. At that point, she's no longer at the mercy of the timelines and ceases to be a person in which causality has any effect.
How could Ken Levine plan that out so far in advance or is there a tear in our reality?
GAF WHATS GOING ON
HOLY CRAP!
HOLY SHIT
Jacksonlee
Member
just watched monster's Inc, i swear to god the skyrails resembles this as Sully and Mike go round the doorways. damn