Support NeoGAF

[jaypah]

I'm a divorced professional. My apartment literally looks like it is out of architectural digest. Exposed brick walls, real hardwood floors, granite counter tops, the works. Sorry but piles of consoles and controllers in my living room just doesn't really fit with my desired aesthetic. And yeah, the first time girls see my apartment, they usually say 'wow' aloud. And no, not really looking for a wife.

What's wrong with trying to keep the clutter down? And booting up and logging up a new system with a new controller every time I switch between playing a 360 game and a Durango game, that's just inefficient and tedious.

Nothing wrong with that at all. I just thought it was weird that games would keep you from getting laid. I've never personally had a problem with it but we're all different.

wow @ your edit. Ok dude.

 

[seattle6418]

yeah, my wife saw my profile picture of me holding up a sign that said "will rap for video games" and decided to send me a friend request. That was in 2005. We got married last month and have every current gen console (and WiiU) plus a PC under the TV and we play together all the time.

Nice to know that dreams do come true.

Never knew a girl into games in real life. Congrats!

 

[jaypah]

Nice to know that dreams do come true.

Never knew a girl into games in real life. Congrats!

Thanks. I've known a few that didn't mind or dabbled here and there but my wife was the first girl I knew who was as into it as I am.

 

[ZeroCDR]

I have no interest in this for Xbox, but if it's true that gives me hope the BC dongle patent for Sony is a real possibility.

 

[soul creator]

How great would it be if the main Durango unit doubled as a Steambox?

edit: .... supposedly running a version of Windows 8, so why not Steam?

it would be pretty funny if they did a Durango port of Windows 8 that was still somehow compatible with desktop applications, and buried it in an "Other OS" menu. Dual boot into Durango mode, or Windows 8 mode!

 

[FonkyByNature]

I hope BC comes back for the next Xbox, i have like 50 games bought on Xbla... would be cool to play some of them like Trials, Hydro Thunder and Motocross Madness on the 720. They're still great games even after the new consoles come out.

 

[Reiko]

Nice to know that dreams do come true.

Never knew a girl into games in real life. Congrats!

Wat?

Are you serious?

 

[Beer Monkey]

I hope BC comes back for the next Xbox, i have like 50 games bought on Xbla... would be cool to play some of them like Trials, Hydro Thunder and Motocross Madness on the 720. They're still great games even after the new consoles come out.

I play Hydro Thunder every few months. Love that version. I need to bust that out. It's great in 4-player splitscreen too.

 

[blu]

I know you just look for negative spin but i'll bite.

If you alraedy have boxed games it means you already own xbox (fat or slim), so if you upgrade it will be to Durango. What would be the point of upgrading from fat/slim xbox to mini? It would be a downgrade
So when you upgrade to Durango then you can buy mini (and sell fat/slim) and play boxed games (voa Durangomdisc drive)

So you're saying 360 owners should stick to their current 360. That's a good BC scheme indeed. I have nothing to add here.

With separate x360 and Durango you would have:
- separate controlers
- use 2 hdmi ports
- 2 kinects if u use them
- takes more space
- switch inputs , maybe transfer profile, etc.

With Durango+mini addon:
- one controler
- one kinect
- unified interface. I guess you will not see any part of xbox interface, it will all be durango.

Basically you will interface only with Durango. Both virtually (GUI) and phyically (inserting discs, powering on, controller)

If the sell value of used xbox fat/slim will be the same or greater than the price of Mini then it is no brainer

Indeed, It's a no-brainer to keep your old console.

 

[sinseers]

It's not, that's the point. If people want back compat they can use their 360, or if they want a smaller unit get this device. Also this thing will most likely have AppleTV-like uses (Netflix, etc.)

I for one really value back compat. I wish both the PS4 and Nextbox supported BC through the hardware. Its just more convenient.

 

[EagleBurnn]

I have no interest in this for Xbox, but if it's true that gives me hope the BC dongle patent for Sony is a real possibility.

I don't see Sony dropping their streaming deal.

 

[XtremeXpider]

It is not related to Durango, but it is related to Windows 8:

Connected Standby is a system-wide power state. During Connected Standby, many devices are powered down, including network adapter(s). In fact, from the perspective of the NDIS miniport driver, Connected Standby looks similar to a system sleep (S3) in Windows 7: NDIS sets a few wake patterns, then sends an OID_PNP_SET_POWER (e.g., D2 device state). That's it.

Where Connected Standby is wildly different from prior OS releases is in usermode sockets. In Windows 7, the OS would never put a network adapter into a D2 power state unless nobody is using it. (Mainly if the system itself goes to sleep, or if an Ethernet NIC is disconnected). But when in Connected Standby, the system will put the NIC into a low power state even if the NIC is being used. The system will pretend that the NIC is still connected, and the system periodically wakes up to renew its IP address. Critically, the system also plumbs a special wake pattern onto the network adapter. If there is an incoming notification for that system (e.g., an incoming chat message), then the Microsoft notification service (a remote server) will send a matching packet to the system, waking it. You might think of it as cloud-scale wake-on-lan.

To answer your questions:

Connected Standby will only be enabled on systems that are designed for it. For traditional desktops / laptops, it's business as usual (sleep, hibernate, etc.). The OEM has to put a special marker into the firmware to indicate that the system is designed for Connected Standby. Because of this, any existing system today will not enter Connected Standby; only new systems released with and designed for the next version of Windows will use this feature.

Always-On/Always-Connected (AOAC) is the name of this feature. Connected Standby is the system state that an AOAC-compliant system can enter.
See #1.

Not all drivers are required to implement AOAC. However, if you want to sell your chip to an OEM that is manufacturing AOAC systems, then obviously you will need to meet the requirements for Connected Standby. Also, if you intend to get a logo, note that there are big logo requirement changes for WLAN/WWAN even besides Connected Standby, e.g., Selective Suspend.

I'm not familiar with Intel AOAC. I speculate that if Intel had been using "AOAC" prior to Microsoft's public discussion of AOAC at //BUILD, then it could just be an acronym coincidence.

From here: http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/wdk/thread/26629db2-6d33-427c-a767-8c857d775079

What if the "Always On/Always Connected is related to this Windows 8 function?

 

[kaching]

I'm so confounded at these distinctions you're drawing, calling it "Remote Play" and "BC In Name Only". It's like you're some kind of BC snob who can only ingest BC in its purest form. Can you really not spare 0.2 cubic feet of space? Is that really a big fucking deal?

That's right, go for the ad hominem, over a perfectly valid distinction.

Can they really just not build an integrated SKU? Make it a limited/premium edition if they like, separate from whatever the base SKU is. Is that really a big fucking deal after being given 8 years to shrink it down and make it cost effective?

 

[fin]

For people that care about BC:

Would you rather pay $150 up front to play all your old games or or pay per title to stream them?

 

[Betrayer of hope]

For people that care about BC:

Would you rather pay $150 up front to play all your old games or or pay per title to stream them?

Are you serious? Streaming? c'mon man

 

[jbug617]

It is not related to Durango, but it is related to Windows 8:



From here: http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/wdk/thread/26629db2-6d33-427c-a767-8c857d775079

What if the "Always On/Always Connected is related to this Windows 8 function?

Could be. The Next Xbox will be based off Windows 8 kernel.

 

[dragonelite]

For people that care about BC:

Would you rather pay $150 up front to play all your old games or or pay per title to stream them?

$150 anyday if it does 1080p versions of the games.

 

[fin]

Are you serious? Streaming? c'mon man

yeah I personally don't care about BC. But isn't that Sony's solution with the PS4? Stream through Gaiki.

 

[Mrbob]

For people that care about BC:

Would you rather pay $150 up front to play all your old games or or pay per title to stream them?

Can I have option 3 which is full blown native BC? Which MS and Sony are laying the groundwork for with their new systems.

If BC is going to be sold as an add on, lets go all in. Create fully integrated BC package for 100 dollars more than the base system.

 

[GoofsterStud]

Create fully integrated BC package for 100 dollars more than the base system.

This 100x.

Seriously I don't want multiple consoles stacked up. I have enough hooked up as it is with Surround Sound receiver, etc. I don't need 2 systems to do what one should be able to. While I'm not a huge fan of BC. I'd buy one in system.

You guys keep saying "choices". Well give us a elite edition that has all the features in one box.

 

[Kyoufu]

For people that care about BC:

Would you rather pay $150 up front to play all your old games or or pay per title to stream them?

Obviously I'd rather pay $100 to play my collection rather than re-purchase them, but Sony hasn't detailed their services yet. I think Shuhei Yoshida said they haven't decided how they'll handle games you already own.

 

[SpaceHobo]

yeah I personally don't care about BC. But isn't that Sony's solution with the PS4? Stream through Gaiki.

Maybe, uhm someday , eventually ,soon etc etc

It's on their radar but its not gonna happen anytime soon,mcertainly not in the way some posters believe.

 

[GoofsterStud]

Obviously I'd rather pay $100 to play my collection rather than re-purchase them, but Sony hasn't detailed their services yet. I think Shuhei Yoshida said they haven't decided how they'll handle games you already own.

I honestly would bet that it comes with the PSN+ package for free, or small fee per game outside.

If they do it for free....well hats of to Sony.

 

[Kyoufu]

I honestly would bet that it comes with the PSN+ package for free, or small fee per game outside.

If they do it for free....well hats of to Sony.

That's if they even get the entire catalogue of PS1/PS2/PS3 games on Gaikai. Something tells me it'll take them years and years to accomplish, but I hope I'm wrong.

 

[surly]

For people that care about BC:

Would you rather pay $150 up front to play all your old games or or pay per title to stream them?

I would rather pay up front for hardware-based backwards compatibility that works with all of my games.

I don't think there will be any backwards compatibility via Gaikai available on the PS4 at launch based on what Jack Tretton said. I think when they add it, the game selection may be limited by licensing issues. Then there's the question of how well it will work. If you live near to the servers and have a good broadband connection with decent upload speeds as well as download speeds, it may work alright, but not everyone has that. Having tried OnLive, I wasn't particularly taken with it based on performance.

For me, I would rank them in this order: -

1. Full hardware-based BC built in
2. Full hardware-based BC via an add-on
3. Keeping an old console around to play last gen games
4. Software-based BC (assuming it doesn't give you the same experience as 1)
5. BC via streaming
6. No BC at all

I put option 3 below 2 because I would rather turn on a single console and have access to all of my games than have to switch machines if I wanted to go from a current gen game to a last gen one or vice versa.

 

[Beer Monkey]

That's if they even get the entire catalogue of PS1/PS2/PS3 games on Gaikai. Something tells me it'll take them years and years to accomplish, but I hope I'm wrong.

That would be literally impossible due to licensing.

Hell, look at the games that have been pulled off XBLA and PSN due to licensing deals expiring. Outrun anyone?

Only if you have disc-based BC will you ever be able to legally play all your old retail PS3 games.

Just dealing with all the different publishers alone is going to be a nightmare. I suspect they'll just put their own games on the service and attempt to license major PS3 hits for streaming.

 

[Raptor]

Wat?

Are you serious?

I don't either and I've been playing my entire life.

The closest was a girl when I was like 10 in a Pacman arcade machine, she was addicted to that game.

 

[Vormund]

I hope Sony does something similar, and does not rely on Gaikai for BC. Even though my connection is fast enough, it would have to rely on there being servers near me, and the other problem is I have a 200gb cap each month. Which I normally don't go through - but seeing the estimates of usage in another thread it would put me over -or- I'd have to get a higher quota.

 

[CLEEK]

For me, I would rank them in this order: -

1. Full hardware-based BC built in
2. Full hardware-based BC via an add-on
3. Keeping an old console around to play last gen games
4. Software-based BC (assuming it doesn't give you the same experience as 1)
5. BC via streaming
6. No BC at all

Yeah, me too.

The only problem I have with MS's implementation of the second way is that it's not just an add-on you have to buy, but a fully fledged console. So you're paying for components (HDMI, USB, NICs, WiFi, RAM etc) that you won't use if you're just buying the mini 360 for BC with the Durango.

So it's an expensive way to achieve this. If the add-on just contained the components needed for BC and couldn't be used outside of connection with the Durango, it would cost a fraction of the suggested $150.

 

[Shaneus]

Yeah, me too.

The only problem I have with MS's implementation of the second way is that it's not just an add-on you have to buy, but a fully fledged console. So you're paying for components (HDMI, USB, NICs, WiFi, RAM etc) that you won't use if you're just buying the mini 360 for BC with the Durango.

So it's an expensive way to achieve this. If the add-on just contained the components needed for BC and couldn't be used outside of connection with the Durango, it would cost a fraction of the suggested $150.

You think? I mean, it only has to add a HDMI port, wireless component (to talk to the controller), network port, USB connection (for charging controller, and game storage) and power. I don't think it'd be *that* much more expensive than just a standalone box that can only do BC. But that's just an educated guess.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Yeah, me too.

The only problem I have with MS's implementation of the second way is that it's not just an add-on you have to buy, but a fully fledged console. So you're paying for components (HDMI, USB, NICs, WiFi, RAM etc) that you won't use if you're just buying the mini 360 for BC with the Durango.

So it's an expensive way to achieve this. If the add-on just contained the components needed for BC and couldn't be used outside of connection with the Durango, it would cost a fraction of the suggested $150.

I agree it's not ideal but it's also not realistic to expect MS to release a premium Durango SKU with built-in BC in 2013.

But I'll still bet you I'll break even when I sell my Slim on Craigslist. I expect this to be a free swap.

 

[travisbickle]

You think? I mean, it only has to add a HDMI port, wireless component (to talk to the controller), network port, USB connection (for charging controller, and game storage) and power. I don't think it'd be *that* much more expensive than just a standalone box that can only do BC. But that's just an educated guess.

I thought the add-on was the cable box?

Based on these rumours, I'd imagined Durango was the next-gen console similar to PS4 and the "xbox-mini" was the cable box that plays 360 download titles. Added together (Durango miniS) it's the cable box that plays Durango and 360 titles from disk.

 

[th4tguy]

I thought the add-on was the cable box?

Based on these rumours, I'd imagined Durango was the next-gen console similar to PS4 and the "xbox-mini" was the cable box that plays 360 download titles. Added together (Durango miniS) it's the cable box that plays Durango and 360 titles from disk.

I've got the impression that Durango will have the same cable box functionality that the mini will. The mini would only act as BC for the Durango if paired.

 

[Shaneus]

I thought the add-on was the cable box?

Based on these rumours, I'd imagined Durango was the next-gen console similar to PS4 and the "xbox-mini" was the cable box that plays 360 download titles. Added together (Durango miniS) it's the cable box that plays Durango and 360 titles from disk.

I thought that was what I said... I was commenting on the poster who mentioned that it was a waste to make said box standalone-able by adding ports that would increase the price when most people would just want to use it for BC only (which obviously uses all the necessary ports of the Durango, not itself).

 

[Poona]

For people that care about BC:

Would you rather pay $150 up front to play all your old games or or pay per title to stream them?

$150 up front, of course. Streaming them? Doesn't use my already purchased titles and is also dependable on the Internet connection.

 

[Sounddeli]

Interesting conversation at OPA pages...

DeadMeat: "My understanding of what that the Xbox TV was a Kinect device whose power consumption was low enough to added to a TV's circuit board.If the Xbox 360 is this Xbox TV, then Microsoft must have made a break-through in the Xbox 360 SOC's power consumption so that it can now be packaged into small devices."

rOt : "Breakthrough??? The chipset is 8 years old and started out as a 90nm part. It's on a SoC I have this confirmed as a fact."

DeadMeat: "It's hard to reduce power consumption in a deeply pipelined processor. Xbox 360 CPU had the longest pipeline in history, approaching 40 stages. Microsoft had to cut this down to 13~15 pipes to reduce power consumption in order for the SOC to fit into a Roku like box, meaning it is basically a new CPU sharing instruction set, not a die shrunk version of old CPU"

DeadMeat: "Doing a quick search, the PowerPC A2 has a 15-stage pipeline, so this is a perfect candidate for the new Xbox 360's CPU. "


Maybe a PowerPC A2 is still possible in the next XBox Mini(TV)


ref: http://**************/forums/topic/67378-vgleaks-now-running-with-deadmeats-xbox-tv-rumor/page-1

ALSO:

rot :

Now that the cat is out of the bag on the Xbox Mini unit, I'll just throw this in:

It will be marketed as a new product under the Xbox brand and not necessarily "Xbox 360". It's "tiny" and has the new Xbox 360 SoC (CPU/GPU/memory on one die). It will be targeted to compete against Roku, Apple TV and Google TV products and will not come with a disk drive.

The "stackable" rumors are bullshit. The next Xbox will have this same SoC in the box (thus the dual APU rumors). It will be a dual SoC system.

The "mini" unit will play Xbox 360 games (no disk drive like it's competitors) and share a "pared down" version of the new dashboard.

Both units will be marketed under the same Xbox "Next" brand.

Also, VGLeaks updated their information to match the info I was given (posted earlier in this thread). Xbox "Next" Mini is a standalone device. They still haven't picked up that the "Durango" is the deluxe model that contains the next gen hardware along with the SoC in the Mini.

 

[Poona]

Interesting conversation at OPA pages...



ALSO:

So if I read that right, it is now saying we don't need this 'Xbox mini' as an add on for bc anymore? Bc is going to be built into the new Xbox after all?

 

[Montresor]

What does "the stackable rumours are bullshit" mean?

 

[BlazingDarkness]

So if I read that right, it is now saying we don't need this 'Xbox mini' as an add on for bc anymore? Bc is going to be built into the new Xbox after all?

Looks like it, which kinda throws VG Leaks rumour credibility up in the air. Eurgh, tired of all this conflicting stuff now.

 

[Beer Monkey]

God damn if they have BC built in that's gonna be a megaton.

 

[kingocfs]

Man, a device priced to compete with Roku that can play 360 games? That's pretty rad.

 

[Klocker]

What does "the stackable rumours are bullshit" mean?

he's saying there is no need for stackable mini with Durango that it is built into every Durango

The next Xbox will have this same SoC in the box (thus the dual APU rumors). It will be a dual SoC system.

oh god come on May 21st

 

[BlazingDarkness]

What does "the stackable rumours are bullshit" mean?

It's saying;
Xbox Mini is used for TV functionality, no disc drive, plays downloadable games (XBL and 360 digital), pared down dashboard
Durango - has the same software as the Mini inside so is BC with 360 titles

That you don't need to connect them, I believe.

 

[Usobuko]

For people that care about BC:

Would you rather pay $150 up front to play all your old games or or pay per title to stream them?

Paying $150 is no different to me than buying a new console aka 360/PS3 to replay all my games, minus the ( potential ) hassle. If Microsoft was to charge $50 or so for the new console, then it'll be a huge comparative advantage in my eyes.

So, at this point, they are both shitty options to me.

 

[Klocker]

yea the Mini could be used in so many places.

We are at a critical time in the technology where it is finally feasible to have a device like this and it be totally acceptable in so many situations. graphics, form factor, cost, features.

 

[dzelly]

I can't wait to see what the next Xbox ACTUALLY is.

 

[Usobuko]

For me, I would rank them in this order: -

1. Full hardware-based BC built in
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
2. Full hardware-based BC via an add-on
3. Keeping an old console around to play last gen games
4. Software-based BC (assuming it doesn't give you the same experience as 1)
5. BC via streaming
6. No BC at all

I put option 3 below 2 because I would rather turn on a single console and have access to all of my games than have to switch machines if I wanted to go from a current gen game to a last gen one or vice versa.

Fixed a little but yes, this is how I see it as well. Except in my case the gap between 1 and 2 is far greater than the gap between 2 to 6 because the add-on is at the price of the console.

 

[spwolf]

It's saying;
Xbox Mini is used for TV functionality, no disc drive, plays downloadable games (XBL and 360 digital), pared down dashboard
Durango - has the same software as the Mini inside so is BC with 360 titles

That you don't need to connect them, I believe.

so Mini will be 360 without disC drive and wont be needed by Durango? Sounds stupid then to not have the $5 disc drive.

 

[onQ123]

I can't wait to see what the next Xbox ACTUALLY is.

 

[Pudge]

This seems like good news, but it also seems to me like damage control after the last few days of always online Twitter gate hoopla.

I just want them to announce the thing so I know whether I should fix the broken disc drive on my current 360 or just save for for a SKU with the Durango+360 attachment. Also want to know how required Kinect is to the whole thing, too much focus on that might be another dealbreaker.

EDIT: Or even better, just the Durango. I'd love if it would support BC right out of the box, and I'd pay a premium for that since I'm already out $70 either way on the 360 repair.