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[Bgamer90]

Everyone is overlooking the RRoD issue we had this gen.

Are some of y'all really thinking about buying launch after that stunt MS pulled? Better stay vigilant.

I honestly don't think it will be a problem this time around.

The Xbox 360 S is built well -- plus the original Xbox 360 was rushed to the market since MS wanted to 1up Sony/Playstation quickly (and because they were bleeding so much money on the original Xbox).

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

I still don't understand the upset over always online is.


In my country, everything has to be done online. It's almost impossible to go to a bank these days to talk to an accountant. To order an appointment for a doctor, a dentist, or buy a ticket, or anything else, it's more and more, just done online.
I simply think that constantly online is the way of the future, and soon there will be fast internet everywhere.



Why do you presume to own your own games like it matters? Why cling on to some tangible discs that you bought with paper? I get the notion that, Valve can take down Steam any day and ruin mah day, but that's just a possibility and I don't see why they would do that.



Making games costs more and more, for every generation. We've established many times how few games actually earn back money. Nobody is going to take risks if there is not a good chance of gaining a profit. I don't mind. They gotta do what they gotta do.

It's just strange to me, because this is another one of those angry-at-about-changing-the-status-quo. It upsets me that so many people are holding technology back because they won't let go of their DVD Drives.



SimCity is one failure, one of many, but it's also amist in a sea of always-online games that work just fine. Finally, Steam is the best thing that has happened to gaming in recent memory. The value you get is amazing, and it's a really nice service, that while not even close to perfect, is something I am deeply satisfied with.



Whatever fears you have over this, rest your laurels. It should not be occupying your mind in contrast to the other technological horrors we' might see over the next decade. you saving a penny on games should be the least of your concerns when google glasses enabled drone strikes are emitting Monsanto GMOs powered by the disney Corp, over the Americas and Europe, to start the Brave New World, as envisioned by Aldous Huxley.




Finally, this is Microsoft. If you know anything about this company, it's almost an insult to their reputation to be upset or surprised at this point. This is just how they are!

 

[IonicSnake]

Always online and 499 bucks for a (rumored) 1.2 TF machine?
Good luck with that MS.

They probably have a Kinect 2 in every box.

 

[Dr.Palutena]

You know they could easily emulate the PSV and PSP on PS4 right?

Problem solved initially.

Solved? Ignoring that that would all be speculation of what they can "easily" do when they aren't even having ps1 BC at launch from the looks of it. There is still the matter of if, PSP and PSV games for free at launch are appealing at all.Compared to if they had a "best of ps3" set of free games on plus or even set aside a few first party ps4 games to "bundle" at launch through plus. Actually the "bundle" idea with a few ps4 games is probably the best option , not sure why I said they couldn't give away ps4 games at launch when they can (but probably won't).

 

[lmpaler]

Internet-connected. The next Xbox must be internet-connected to use. This is source of the “always on”/“always online” rumors and isn’t as Draconian as many seem to believe.

They better have a really, REALLY, good line up to justify me buying it because that requirement is an instant no buy for me.

 

[Izick]

Come December, I think many will be eating crow when they realize that gaming is a far more important in driving sales than multimedia features.

Especially for the Innovator and Early Adopter markets, since the vast majority tend to be video game enthusiasts, not tech enthusiasts. There's definitely crossover of course, but these things sell to gamers early on.

 

[ido]

Why do you presume to own your own games like it matters? Why cling on to some tangible discs that you bought with paper? I get the notion that, Valve can take down Steam any day and ruin mah day, but that's just a possibility and I don't see why they would do that.

I own all of my NES, SNES, Genesis, N64, PS1, PS2 games, and it matters to me quite a bit. What you are okay with essentially kills collecting on every level, makes it impossible to loan games between friends, makes it impossible to resell your game, etc.

I don't see how anybody can be for this.

 

[Xanadu]

GT's image might get tarnished if the rumors of GT6 coming to PS3 are true. While the next Forza is coming to Durango and looks mind blowing..

or maybe..

history repeats itself

 

[Router]

I still don't understand the upset over always online is.


In my country, everything has to be done online. It's almost impossible to go to a bank these days to talk to an accountant. To order an appointment for a doctor, a dentist, or buy a ticket, or anything else, it's more and more, just done online.
I simply think that constantly online is the way of the future, and soon there will be fast internet everywhere.



Why do you presume to own your own games like it matters? Why cling on to some tangible discs that you bought with paper? I get the notion that, Valve can take down Steam any day and ruin mah day, but that's just a possibility and I don't see why they would do that.



Making games costs more and more, for every generation. We've established many times how few games actually earn back money. Nobody is going to take risks if there is not a good chance of gaining a profit. I don't mind. They gotta do what they gotta do.

It's just strange to me, because this is another one of those angry-at-about-changing-the-status-quo. It upsets me that so many people are holding technology back because they won't let go of their DVD Drives.



SimCity is one failure, one of many, but it's also amist in a sea of always-online games that work just fine. Finally, Steam is the best thing that has happened to gaming in recent memory. The value you get is amazing, and it's a really nice service, that while not even close to perfect, is something I am deeply satisfied with.



Whatever fears you have over this, rest your laurels. It should not be occupying your mind in contrast to the other technological horrors we' might see over the next decade. you saving a penny on games should be the least of your concerns when google glasses enabled drone strikes are emitting Monsanto GMOs powered by the disney Corp, over the Americas and Europe, to start the Brave New World, as envisioned by Aldous Huxley.




Finally, this is Microsoft. If you know anything about this company, it's almost an insult to their reputation to be upset or surprised at this point. This is just how they are!

I live in Australia, 2 hours out of a major metropolitan region. I pay $100 a month for a shitty 1mb Internet connection that drops out every 15 minutes.

Needing to be connected to play games at all is not something I would embrace.

 

[ascii42]

I still don't understand the upset over always online is.


In my country, everything has to be done online. It's almost impossible to go to a bank these days to talk to an accountant. To order an appointment for a doctor, a dentist, or buy a ticket, or anything else, it's more and more, just done online.
I simply think that constantly online is the way of the future, and soon there will be fast internet everywhere.



Why do you presume to own your own games like it matters? Why cling on to some tangible discs that you bought with paper? I get the notion that, Valve can take down Steam any day and ruin mah day, but that's just a possibility and I don't see why they would do that.



Making games costs more and more, for every generation. We've established many times how few games actually earn back money. Nobody is going to take risks if there is not a good chance of gaining a profit. I don't mind. They gotta do what they gotta do.

It's just strange to me, because this is another one of those angry-at-about-changing-the-status-quo. It upsets me that so many people are holding technology back because they won't let go of their DVD Drives.



SimCity is one failure, one of many, but it's also amist in a sea of always-online games that work just fine. Finally, Steam is the best thing that has happened to gaming in recent memory. The value you get is amazing, and it's a really nice service, that while not even close to perfect, is something I am deeply satisfied with.



Whatever fears you have over this, rest your laurels. It should not be occupying your mind in contrast to the other technological horrors we' might see over the next decade. you saving a penny on games should be the least of your concerns when google glasses enabled drone strikes are emitting Monsanto GMOs powered by the disney Corp, over the Americas and Europe, to start the Brave New World, as envisioned by Aldous Huxley.




Finally, this is Microsoft. If you know anything about this company, it's almost an insult to their reputation to be upset or surprised at this point. This is just how they are!

You start out talking about always online, and then start defending digital distribution instead.
What does digital distribution have to do with an online requirement?

 

[saladine1]

And for those who say Microsoft has Forza. Well look at the sales of Forza and compare that to the beast that is Gran Turismo. Forza 3-4 didn't even make the top 5 sales of the month when released. It was never a mega success, so much that MS had to give it in a package with the console. Don't get me wrong, it's a great game but racing fans always chose GT.

Not always lol.

Forza while not as big as GT in terms of sales or fanbase, is building up quite nicely.
Turn 10 really need something huge to bring in the masses and I believe that if the Forza 5 launch rumors are true, it could be it.
A next gen Forza vs a last gen GT could be the catalyst for Turn 10.
It'll be tough one for them for sure. I mean GT is GT!
Either way though, as an avid racing fan, i'm happy this year will feature plenty of racing action for me to enjoy..

 

[gaming_noob]

or maybe..

history repeats itself

GT4 still looks amazing. Forza 2 looks almost N64-like...quite offensive.

 

[Xanadu]

GT4 still looks amazing. Forza 2 looks almost N64-like...quite offensive.

to be fair that is easily the worst shot of forza 2 ever but yea the lighting in GT4 was much better than a game on new tech, this probably wont happen again but you never know

 

[DigitalOp]

I own all of my NES, SNES, Genesis, N64, PS1, PS2 games, and it matters to me quite a bit. What you are okay with essentially kills collecting on every level, makes it impossible to loan games between friends, makes it impossible to resell your game, etc.

I don't see how anybody can be for this.

Not only this but those games you bought for hypothetical "online only nextbox" don't just become worthless overtime... they literally become nonexistant.

Nonexistant.

Its been like 15 plus years since the NES was the hot shit, Yet you can STILL find one, buy a game and boot it up.

The counterarguement is "nobody plays old games"

My reply is "speak for yourself"

 

[Deleted member 47027]

To be fair Forza doesn't cost anywhere near as much to make as GT and they're able to put one out each year, getting a lot of sales as a franchise.

 

[FindMyFarms]

I live in Australia, 2 hours out of a major metropolitan region. I pay $100 a month for a shitty 1mb Internet connection that drops out every 15 minutes.

Needing to be connected to play games at all is not something I would embrace.

Holy shit...my heart goes out to you!

 

[ido]

You start out talking about always online, and then start defending digital distribution instead.
What does digital distribution have to do with an online requirement?

This confused me as well.

What I find strange is how easily people accept these anti-consumer ideas.

 

[H_Prestige]

You'd think after four entries with subpar sales people would realize that Forza is no threat to GT. GT5P probably sold more than any Forza game.

Anyway, $500 and always online. Sounds like a recipe for success. I mean, we all know how great the ps3 sold at $500.

 

[Deadstar]

499 seems high

$499 seems high for 7+ possible years of entertainment? I'm not sure why anyone thinks $499 or $599 is ridiculous when you look at how long these consoles last. Apple sends out a new ipad every year for $499. These new boxes will last a minimum of 4 years.

 

[QaaQer]

They probably have a Kinect 2 in every box.

Yup.

I'm of the opinion that Sony is smart enough to realize that initial buy-in price matters the most, and so unless they can pack in their eye toy and beat MS' basic sku, they will not pack it in. To try and match MS feature for feature, and not be cheaper will mean failure. Because if everything is equal on the hardware side, MS will trump Sony with moneyhats.

No, the logical avenue for Sony is to make eye optional and undercut MS, even if it means the console has fewer so-called features.

 

[RobotRocker]

You'd think after four entries with subpar sales people would realize that Forza is no threat to GT.

GT5P probably sold more than any Forza game.

The people who realize that didn't play GT5.

 

[QaaQer]

I live in Australia, 2 hours out of a major metropolitan region. I pay $100 a month for a shitty 1mb Internet connection that drops out every 15 minutes.

Needing to be connected to play games at all is not something I would embrace.

I though Austrial had pegged 20 billion USD to give everyone kickass internet?

 

[H_Prestige]

The people who realize that didn't play GT5.

You mean the game that sold 10 million so far?

 

[Prologue]

What I don't understand is the subsidized vs the full priced model . The subsidized will cost me $540 at the end, but during those 2 years I will have xbox live. But if I get the $499 version, I don't have xbox live and will actually cost me more if I sign up for it.


Am I missing something?

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Especially for the Innovator and Early Adopter markets, since the vast majority tend to be video game enthusiasts, not tech enthusiasts. There's definitely crossover of course, but these things sell to gamers early on.

Aren't some early adopters tech enthusiasts? That's how I've always viewed it, the just gamer won't be buying one at launch, as there's no reason for them to drop their 360/PS3 with all the games coming those consoles too.

Tech heads however are always there to check out what's new.

 

[BigTnaples]

Sounds good, and the price sounds right, kind of lessens my fear it would be underpowered.


I want Halo, Forza, Gears, etc to look magnificent.

 

[Schnozberry]

$499 seems high for 7+ possible years of entertainment? I'm not sure why anyone thinks $499 or $599 is ridiculous when you look at how long these consoles last. Apple sends out a new ipad every year for $499. These new boxes will last a minimum of 4 years.

It's not high for everyone, but it's certainly not a mainstream price.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Classic paul thurott on the always online thing.

 

[H_Prestige]

What I don't understand is the subsidized vs the full priced model . The subsidized will cost me $540 at the end, but during those 2 years I will have xbox live. But if I get the $499 version, I don't have xbox live and will actually cost me more if I sign up for it.


Am I missing something?

You're not in a contract and can do whatever the hell you want. You sign an XBL contract and you're essentially agreeing to be MS' bitch for two years.

 

[QaaQer]

Aren't some early adopters tech enthusiasts? That's how I've always viewed it, the just gamer won't be buying one at launch, as there's no reason for them to drop their 360/PS3 with all the games coming those consoles too.

Tech heads however are always there to check out what's new.

An underpowered processor and year old midrange gpu and ddr3 isn't particularly new tech wise. The Kinect, also, won't be particularly noteworthy until a window's version launches where people can use it to do stuff that doesn't involve buying digital content and switching guns.

 

[ido]

Not only this but those games you bought for hypothetical "online only nextbox" don't just become worthless overtime... they literally become nonexistant.

Nonexistant.

Its been like 15 plus years since the NES was the hot shit, Yet you can STILL find one, buy a game and boot it up.

Exactly. I find myself more and more compelled to continue collecting older games and only casually jumping into this "next gen" whenever something looks awesome (Monolith's X, for example).

 

[ZROCOOL]

With that price, I'm sure it's quiet beefy under the hood. MS wouldn't throw something out that lacks with that price tag. I could be wrong tho

 

[honorless]

Another Xbox 360. Microsoft will also deliver a third generation Xbox 360 console this year that will be significantly less expensive than the current models.

I know you've basically stopped caring about Japan, MS, but please launch this there as a last hurrah. I want a brand new Saidaioujou machine for like $250 shipped. Would also be nice to get the 360 versions of Shiki 3 and Ketsui for consistency's sake, and I'd totally give Radirgy Noa Massive a shot if I had money left over.

 

[Schnozberry]

What I don't understand is the subsidized vs the full priced model . The subsidized will cost me $540 at the end, but during those 2 years I will have xbox live. But if I get the $499 version, I don't have xbox live and will actually cost me more if I sign up for it.


Am I missing something?

Depends on the terms of the contract. If I had to guess, missing a monthly payment means they disable your console until you catch up. Always online, baby.

 

[kaching]

I still don't understand the upset over always online is.

Because there's nothing you can accomplish when online is required that you can't also accomplish when it's simply optional. There's no reason to take away a perfectly functional state of a class of devices that's been a baseline of that product class for decades for the sake of online. This isn't about being angry at changes in the status quo simply because they're changes. This is anger over the removal of the status quo when that and the progress in question can both coexist quite well together. If the merit of online services are there, people will naturally gravitate towards them without being forced.

 

[Prologue]

You're not in a contract and can do whatever the hell you want. You sign an XBL contract and you're essentially agreeing to be MS' bitch for two years.

But a good majority of people will actually sign up for xbox live regardless. Usually buying a full priced item ends up costing you less in the long run than a subsidized model. 2 years of live ontop of the $499 will end up costing me $740. There must some important information we're missing. I doubt xbox live is free.

It's still better to buy off contract and purchase Live separately. That way you can pay the $60/year price instead of the $120/year on contract fee you're stuck with. You can even pay month to month or for 3 months, etc. Off contract you have the freedom to pay for what you want and when you want.

Forgot that its $60 a year and not $120.

Woops!

 

[Deleted member 47027]

I know you've basically stopped caring about Japan, MS, but please launch this there as a last hurrah. I want a brand new Saidaioujou machine for like $250 shipped. Would also be nice to get the 360 versions of Shiki 3 and Ketsui for consistency's sake, and I'd totally give Radirgy Noa Massive a shot if I had money left over.

There's plenty of good reasons to sell another revision of the 360 - one of them is that a 360 customer is likely going to be a Live customer, and they can still make significant money off of Live.

 

[Raxus]

MS stahp.

This rollercoaster of emotions is getting to me.

Is it always online or not?

 

[Tylahedras]

I live in Australia, 2 hours out of a major metropolitan region. I pay $100 a month for a shitty 1mb Internet connection that drops out every 15 minutes.

Needing to be connected to play games at all is not something I would embrace.

I live within a 1 hour drive of microsoft's offices in Redmond washington and my internet goes out about once every fifteen minutes to an hour. Usually its back up in 30-60 seconds but sometimes its down for 15 minutes or more. And Every few months it goes down for hours at a time. I guess on the plus side I will be able to drive to their offices to complain lol.

 

[TriGen]

I think the used game situation is the biggest deal. I personally would be fine with needing to be online to play, because I'm always a three console guy, so if the internet isn't working I'll just play on something else. The things is, I literally haven't played an online game on anything other than my 360. My PS3 and Wii were single-player machines. The reason is simly because my friends just have 360s, whereas I can afford them all.

Now, when talking to my 360-only friends about these rumors, none of them care about always having to be online, because they are so used to playing online games and always paying for Live.

The problem with online for these people would be if they needed to verify ownership of games giving them no resale value. All of my friends count on trading-in their games to buy new ones. They literally never have more than two games on their shelf at a time, in a lot of ways I would say they fit that "dudebro" image that Microsoft is very popular with. And that's the thing, GameStop sells more 360 games than anything, so in a lot of ways a huge segment of the Xbox's audience needs used games to be allowed. I know on GAF we think about how the world has spotty connections, and that's true, but I honestly think even a system that allows you to play offline, but requires you to be online to link your game with your account just once is as bad as full-blown online.

A large number of the current Xbox audience could be lost if you need to authenticate games. I just don't see it. GS would probably train all their employees to try and sell people PS4s. And if you're not restricting used games, then you don't need to have a ridiculous online-only rule. I'm just betting against it. I don't see Microsft doing it because I don't see how it could work.

 

[Glorified G]

Well, Steam must have an internet connection to work, but it also has an offline mode (and nobody in GAF complains about it). I think that the nextbox will work the same way.

Have you ever used steam? I can disconnect right now, reboot my machine, go into my steam client and launch any game off my harddrive. There is no mandatory internet connection.

 

[RobotRocker]

You mean the game that sold 10 million so far?

And left millions of broken hearts in its wake.

GT5 was a massive disaster at its launch and was a bad quality product compared to the rest of the series. Unless GT6 on the PS3 really steps up it's game this year and proves GT5 was just a blip on the radar. MS are primed to swoop in on that market with next gen Forza if they can show it's a superior product.

 

[LowEndTorque]

Cool. Looking forward to seeing what MS has got.

I'm still open to being convinced to get a 720 despite all the negative rumours, but they will need to really give me a compelling reason.

 

[H_Prestige]

But a good majority of people will actually sign up for xbox live regardless.

It's still better to buy off contract and purchase Live separately. That way you can pay the $60/year price instead of the $120/year on contract fee you're stuck with. You can even pay month to month or for 3 months, etc. Off contract you have the freedom to pay for what you want and when you want.

And left millions of broken hearts in its wake.

GT5 was a massive disaster at its launch and was a bad quality product compared to the rest of the series. Unless GT6 on the PS3 really steps up it's game this year and proves GT5 was just a blip on the radar. MS are primed to swoop in on that market with next gen Forza if they can show it's a superior product.

No offense but, LOL

 

[Izick]

Aren't some early adopters tech enthusiasts? That's how I've always viewed it, the just gamer won't be buying one at launch, as there's no reason for them to drop their 360/PS3 with all the games coming those consoles too.

Tech heads however are always there to check out what's new.

Like I said, it's probably a small fraction of the people who buy these things within the first few weeks or maybe even months. People who post on gaming forums, play the newest stuff, or just love playing a lot of games and want whatever is new (be it games or consoles) are the people who push sales forward early on.

The other interesting thing to see is how the ball gets rolling and grows the brand. The 360's launch was a year ahead, and it allowed it to gain a ton of steam and market-share that could have possibly been Sony's. (possibly because a lot of consumers would still pass with the PS3's price being what it was) So when the install base is immediately larger earlier on, more consumers tend to flock to that brand because all of their friends are on there, word-of-mouth, etc. I think this is where Sony could benefit, because if all the gamers are buying a PS4 and creating great word-of-mouth, then that can snowball into larger sales, brand awareness, market-share, etc.

EDIT: Also, I'm not sure why people are criticizing Thurrott. He's just telling what he knows, and giving his opinion on top of it. At least he didn't lie or avoid the question on twitter about games requiring a connection.

 

[Nyoro SF]

Heh, if the next Xbox really does come with a Windows 8 shell then that makes it WAY easier not to buy it

 

[ascii42]

What I don't understand is the subsidized vs the full priced model . The subsidized will cost me $540 at the end, but during those 2 years I will have xbox live. But if I get the $499 version, I don't have xbox live and will actually cost me more if I sign up for it.


Am I missing something?

I believe the current subsidized 360 charges $15/month. If they do that for the 720, it'd be $660 after two years, which would be $40 more than buying the system outright and paying for two years of Live.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Wait, do people think Paul works for MS? These are still rumors folks, very easily could be 100% false.

 

[Penguins&PolarBears]

$299 at $10/mo contract doesn't make sense to me unless its a 3 yr contract.

Why would anyone buy the $499 version unless they never planned to use XBL Gold? Even then they're only saving $40 after two years. Might as well go for the contract. Maybe $299 has a smaller HDD?

 

[QaaQer]

Cool. Looking forward to seeing what MS has got.

I'm still open to being convinced to get a 720 despite all the negative rumours, but they will need to really give me a compelling reason.

I think most people are if the rumors we have are bullshit. A $399 console with some really great media functionality, no paywall for stuff like netflix etc, great kinect for party games and kid stuff, and intriguing games + used games and no internet required would sell just fine and be received by gaf really well.