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[Stop It]

I might be the cruel sociopathic guy, but I dont really care if she's alive or not. I really do not. She is scamming people, she is lying, she is using death threat to stop people from saying its a scam, and then go out on a show suicide with the least potent way to kill herself.
I really do not care for her. I do hope she get better and become a beneficial member of the society, but if she died, I would not have cared. I do not know her, and she is not important for the survival of the human race. If anything, she tried to scam which would set back people.
Forgiving people who use suicide attempt as a way to redeemed themselves is bad. I knew a girl who "tried" to kill herself every single week. And worst, she refused all help we tried to give her. She didnt want to die, but she was using it to have leverage over people and get money or car rides.

The bigger picture is that people should study kickstarters/indiegogo stuff and assure that its not a scam, like asking for proof over the injuries and stuff like that.

Wow, where the hell do I start. For one, using one anecdotal case to judge a completely different case? Nice.

Anyway, you claim not to know this person, but seem to be making one heck of a judgement call as to her motives considering that. I know people have problems equating outcomes with intentions and know that this isn't a case I expect people to understand, because I don't but my god at the lack of empathy on display here.

As stated before, does saving a life have to be limited to physical conditions? If yes, then yeah, call this a scam, throw stones etc, that's your right to have an opinion. However, as someone who see's the mind as the most powerful part of what makes us, us, I also think if something goes wrong mentally, that can be as harmful as a life threatening illness.

Now in this case, a physical issue has caused a mental one, and if surgery can help as part of the cure, then it IS life saving. If that's the case, this isn't a case of someone trying to scam people, but a misguided attempt to save themselves.

 

[NoirVisage]

There are beliefs and there are truths. Don't insult people by attempting to summarize your own inadequacies as the latter, when they are really simple versions of the former.

Whats the truth then? And where is my inadequacy?
Do tell.

 

[QueenOfThorns]

Haven't you seen the lengths people are going to tolerate trans people? We got some straight up Mother Theresa's in this thread. One guy even agreed to use neutral pronouns!

Almost as benevolent as the Destructoid guy deciding to out her and referring to her as "him". For justice.

 

[Rubius]

Haven't you seen the lengths people are going to tolerate trans people? We got some straight up Mother Theresa's in this thread. One guy even agreed to use neutral pronouns!

In fact, there is serious allegations that Mother Theresa was scamming people too, which is kind of funny. She took a lot of the money that went to sick people and sent it elsewhere.
The church simply covered the story and used her as a saint to promote the religion.

So yeah. Kind of funny to see Mother Teresa turn up in this thread.

 

[Raonak]

Lying about her surgery is bad. threatening suicide is bad. doing it on a live stream is fucking horrible.

Also, her being outed was a nessicery side-effect of the whole story being uncovered. If her being transgender had nothing to do with her KS campaign, then outing her would've been unessicery, but it was the real reason she wanted the surgery, the reason she lied, the reason KS cut her campaign. ommiting the real reason would've been bad journalism imo.

hope she gets some help. but fuck. public suicide is low of the low.

 

[AkuMifune]

Whats the truth then? And where is my inadequacy?
Do tell.

She is a she, whether you like it or not. You only address your own insecurities by denying that.

On topic, I don't think all of this fallout is going to help her mental state in any way.

 

[params7]

Almost as benevolent as the Destructoid guy deciding to out her and referring to her as "him". For justice.

Him, technically since the person is biologically a male and has not received the operation yet. I see nothing wrong with that.

 

[Giolon]

Oh the inevitable you should be tolerant of intolerance post. 5 points to you.

I'm not sure posting "I have no sympathy for someone who just tried to kill themselves" over and over and over is a viewpoint worth tolerating?

Like, there's not even the attempt at discourse in those posts, just a giant dick-waving competition they're having by themself to prove just how much they don't care about another human being's life. Every post they've made on this page has been literally trying to insist that her life doesn't matter.

I don't think you know what being tolerant means. I'm not forcing anybody to be sympathetic to Chloe's situation but if you're not willing to have a conversation about it (e.g. repeat the same thing 3 times while shrugging your shoulders underneath a pretense of 'cold hard facts, deal with it') then I fail to see how you're constructively adding to the discussion. After a certain number of repetitions it becomes pure flamebait.

Asking him to leave the discussion because you don't appreciate his point of view isn't constructive either. He hasn't flamed anybody that I've seen (and I'll admit I could have missed it), and I haven't seen him advocating harm to this person or others, but this whole farce that the only viewpoints worth tolerating are ones you agree with is incredibly hypocritical.

 

[Acerac]

Haven't you seen the lengths people are going to tolerate trans people? We got some straight up Mother Theresa's in this thread. One guy even agreed to use neutral pronouns!

...even though he made sure to note that said pronouns are not true in his eyes.

I don't see what value people find in owning such mentalities. Does it bring them pleasure to make others feel worse about themselves?

...the answer is yes isn't it? =/

 

[Venfayth]

Him, technically since the person is biologically a male and has not received the operation yet. I see nothing wrong with that.

Sex != Gender

 

[Ohmwrecker]

Wait, so she made that indiegogo thing pretending to need money for life-saving stuff, indiegogo found out it was actually for sex-change surgery, cancelled the whole thing, and she attempted suicide because of this? Is this correct? I'm confused now.

Not entirely accurate, see:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comme...developer_chloe_sagal_commits_suicide/c9xryai

and

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rk99tp

 

[Rubius]

She is a she, whether you like it or not. You only address your own insecurities by denying that.

Yelling at people about stuff like that isnt a good way to do thing. She identify as a she. She was male, and did not get the operation.
Legally, she is a he. If she went to jail, they would send her in the male jail, not the female one. Because of her Penis.

So, even if she identify herself as female, she is a male in the eyes of the law until she finished the change and/or made the paperwork to become a female citizen of where ever she is.

 

[params7]

hope she gets some help. but fuck. public suicide is low of the low.

It was a trump card for call to attention on his/her's part. Should have just gone about asking funds for the operation the honest way. Might have taken longer but would have avoided the needless drama.

 

[DR2K]

So where can we donate to save her life?

 

[GuardianE]

Sex != Gender

This is a pretty important distinction.

 

[NoirVisage]

She is a she, whether you like it or not. You only address your own insecurities by denying that.

Wow..okay.

Him, technically since the person is biologically a male and has not received the operation yet. I see nothing wrong with that.

you are clearly delusional.

 

[RoboGeorgeForeman]

Personally I think this person is a scumbag, I don't care what they were going to use the money for. I'm tired of people excusing awful behavior because they're having a rough time. I recognize as a minority the pain one goes through when they're shunned by their peers but there's a right way and a wrong way to go about this kind of thing.

That said I hope this person turns their life around and overcomes their situation.

 

[QueenOfThorns]

Him, technically since the person is biologically a male and has not received the operation yet. I see nothing wrong with that.

Then you're a part of the problem. There isn't a goal line to "becoming a woman". It does not start with a surgery. If you identify as a woman, you are one. Sorry to be rude, but this kind of thinking is hugely triggering. "But you're biologically a male so it's ok if I refer to you as that!" is something people say if someone has "the operation" or not, and it doesn't make it right.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

this whole farce that the only viewpoints worth tolerating are ones you agree with is incredibly hypocritical.

Putting words in my mouth will get you nowhere. I'd happily converse with Rubius in the off chance that they're willing to talk about the subject rather than put sociopathy on display for the world to see.

It was a trump card for call to attention on his/her's part.

it is unwise to do this.

 

[Acerac]

Lying about her surgery is bad. threatening suicide is bad. doing it on a live stream is fucking horrible.

Also, her being outed was a nessicery side-effect of the whole story being uncovered. If her being transgender had nothing to do with her KS campaign, then outing her would've been unessicery, but it was the real reason she wanted the surgery, the reason she lied, the reason KS cut her campaign. ommiting the real reason would've been bad journalism imo.

hope she gets some help. but fuck. public suicide is low of the low.

I too am glad that she was outed even if it drives her to a far worse mental place and makes her that much more likely to not be faking it next time she tries to kill herself.

Journalistic integrity > human life

*Edit*

Just noticed I'm on gaming side. That explains a bunch actually.

 

[Devolution]

Him, technically since the person is biologically a male and has not received the operation yet. I see nothing wrong with that.

Please educate yourself on the transitioning process before you make such ignorant statements.

 

[Sophia]

This is a pretty important distinction.

Not only is it an important distinction, it's considered proper among professionals to use the gender one is transitioning to, not what they were born as.

 

[Giolon]

Putting words in my mouth will get you nowhere. I'd happily converse with Rubius in the off chance that they're willing to talk about the subject rather than put sociopathy on display for the world to see.

Did you not ask him to leave the thread because of the views he put forth? If you didn't do that, I'll take it all back.

 

[Noirulus]

Glad she's alive. I really hope she can receive help for her mental health.

Edit: Also hoping that she hasn't suffered any permanent brain damage from ODing on pills.

 

[rocketknight]

Yelling at people about stuff like that isnt a good way to do thing. She identify as a she. She was male, and did not get the operation.
Legally, she is a he. If she went to jail, they would send her in the male jail, not the female one. Because of her Penis.

So, even if she identify herself as female, she is a male in the eyes of the law until she finished the change and/or made the paperwork to become a female citizen of where ever she is.

This is probably not the thread to teach you this stuff, but you honestly don't know the first thing about any of it. Not how to change the gender marker on various documents, not how "the law" sees gender, not how police necessarily handle trans people, and not how you actually relate to people in the real world.

 

[Devolution]

Did you not ask him to leave the thread because of the views he put forth? If you didn't do that, I'll take it all back.

Because people issuing ignorant statements about transitioning and suicide as fact sure do add much to the conversation.

 

[Diablo Rosso]

Him, technically since the person is biologically a male and has not received the operation yet. I see nothing wrong with that.

Well there is. That's not how gender works.

 

[Amir0x]

My thoughts go out to the family of Chloe Sagal and Chloe herself; what a profoundly saddening situation this whole thing is. Suicide is so soul-crushing when it occurs, a act of desperation so complete that one can't help but feel the deepest sympathy for those going through that mental torment. Wish there was a way to snap a finger and stop such thoughts for certain, but I know all too well that's impossible

 

[Sage00]

This must be what it was like to live during any of the civil rights movements or the abolition of slavery. Cannot believe the comments some people are making about a person in here.

 

[RagnarokX]

Wow, that's fucked up... Forgetting about the fact that there are actually people out there who need money to battle legitimately fatal medical conditions: Isn't this a crime? Fraud?

Well, gender dysphoria can be a fatal condition. Transexuals have a higher suicide rate. But it's definitely wrong to lie about what the condition was. Explaining her situation and how it was making her feel depressed and suicidal could have gotten her funding.

Obviously her problems were severe enough to drive her to suicide, which is like the ultimate maladaptive form of avoidance/escape behavior. It makes sense that she wanted to avoid putting her real problem out there. Plus people have a harder time understanding and empathizing with psychological problems. But those are not really excuses for fraud; people have a right to decide what to do with their money.

Hopefully she gets the help she needs.

 

[AkuMifune]

This is probably not the thread to teach you this stuff, but you honestly don't know the first thing about any of it. Not how to change the gender marker on various documents, not how "the law" sees gender, not how police necessarily handle trans people, and not how you actually relate to people in the real world.

Yeah, this is not that thread.

And if we believe some posters in the OT, she's selfish too. It all comes full circle.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

What an ugly mess. The kind of mess that brings out the worst of the internet. Just depressing all round.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Did you not ask him to leave the thread because of the views he put forth? If you didn't do that, I'll take it all back.

Ya got me, I'm intolerant of people who fail to express a shred of value for human life. I nevertheless remain optimistic that most GAF members can learn it. Most.

 

[wonzo]

Wait, what?

nice username & avatar you've got there

 

[Kurdel]

Wait, what?

nice username & avatar you've got there

Woooow that went right over my head, good catch.

 

[params7]

Then you're a part of the problem. There isn't a goal line to "becoming a woman". It does not start with a surgery. If you identify as a woman, you are one. Sorry to be rude, but this kind of thinking is hugely triggering. "But you're biologically a male so it's ok if I refer to you as that!" is something people say if someone has "the operation" or not, and it doesn't make it right.

Right, wasn't aware you cannot refer to people by their biological identity anymore, and it was considered problematic to do so.

Before my post gets quoted 5 more times, lets not ignore the real issue of the thread.

 

[Open Source]

Then you're a part of the problem. There isn't a goal line to "becoming a woman". It does not start with a surgery. If you identify as a woman, you are one. Sorry to be rude, but this kind of thinking is hugely triggering. "But you're biologically a male so it's ok if I refer to you as that!" is something people say if someone has "the operation" or not, and it doesn't make it right.

This, from the self-styled "reality-based community." Chromosome denier!

 

[goldsoundz]

nice username & avatar you've got there

Should have noticed after watching Homeland season 1 last week. Had no idea about the "88" thing. I would say it's a coincidence, but then there's the "AH."

 

[Rubius]

Then you're a part of the problem. There isn't a goal line to "becoming a woman". It does not start with a surgery. If you identify as a woman, you are one. Sorry to be rude, but this kind of thinking is hugely triggering. "But you're biologically a male so it's ok if I refer to you as that!" is something people say if someone has "the operation" or not, and it doesn't make it right.

One time as I worked as security guard in a hospital, a recently operated and very obvious transexual came to me and said that the toilet were blocked. I asked her which toilet, and you could see his face all insulted and answer "Well the women one of course!". I said "I meant, which one, the one next the elevator or the other one?".

People need to stop being so insulted and offended all the time. It would save a lot of time and energy to everybody. We live in a multicultural, multireligion, and multi country world. We cannot expect everybody to know how to react to every single new situation. The road to tolerance is to tolerate intolerance.

 

[Goon Boon]

Honestly, she's painted transpeople as money stealing frauds to a lot of people in a community that likely would have donated if they knew the real reason. :/

 

[AH88]

nice username & avatar you've got there

Yeah, someone pointed out the whole 88 is a nazi thing after I made it. Crazy to think I might actually be using my birth year(1988) with my first and last initial(Al Hall), but oh well. Is there a way to change user names?

 

[Sage00]

Yeah, someone pointed out the whole 88 is a nazi thing after I made it. Crazy to think I might actually be using my birth year(1988), but oh well.

Yeah, right. Bye.

Spoiler

You might be the unluckiest person ever if this is true.

Edit: Steam profile seems to check out actually, Al Hall. Save this man (then hang him again for his stupid comments!)

 

[Devolution]

Yeah, someone pointed out the whole 88 is a nazi thing after I made it. Crazy to think I might actually be using my birth year(1988), but oh well.

The AH doesn't help you know.

 

[Acerac]

nice username & avatar you've got there

But there are oh so many things AH88 could stand for.

Perhaps he liked to play the auction house in WoW and was born in 1988.

It's always funny when I find out after the fact when I find out the people who disagree with me have more opinions that I'd disagree with. Rarely surprising however.

Yeah, someone pointed out the whole 88 is a nazi thing after I made it. Crazy to think I might actually be using my birth year(1988) with my first and last initial(Al Hall), but oh well. Is there a way to change user names?

See? The fact that it's a double nazi symbol is a TOTAL COINCIDENCE.

*Looks at AH88's avatar*

TOTAL COINCIDENCE.

 

[AH88]

Yeah, right. Bye.

Spoiler

You might be the unluckiest person ever if this is true.

Yeah, I've been using 88 with either my first and last initials or first initial and last name for a long time and only recently found out about it. That is my luck though.

 

[Stop It]

Because people issuing ignorant statements about transitioning and suicide as fact sure do add much to the conversation.

While I certainly understand where you're coming from, open debate means tolerating those views that you find intolerable.

Besides, you aren't going to progress debate by excluding people based on your own moral compass, and all you do by shunting those who you disagree strongly with is if anything going to re-enforce their views by pushing them towards others with similar views.

Anyway, this thread is enlightening and depressing to me in equal measures, the cause of this suicide attempt aside, it's clear that psychological pain and suffering is not well understood in society as a whole. The fact we're still seeing people refer to Chloe as "him" shows that people put the physical over the mental state, and I'm saddened by that.

 

[Giolon]

While I certainly understand where you're coming from, open debate means tolerating those views that you find intolerable.

Besides, you aren't going to progress debate by excluding people based on your own moral compass, and all you do by shunting those who you disagree strongly with is if anything going to re-enforce their views by pushing them towards others with similar views.

^- Bingo

 

[QueenOfThorns]

One time as I worked as security guard in a hospital, a recently operated and very obvious transexual came to me and said that the toilet were blocked. I asked her which toilet, and you could see his face all insulted and answer "Well the women one of course!". I said "I meant, which one, the one next the elevator or the other one?".

People need to stop being so insulted and offended all the time. It would save a lot of time and energy to everybody. We live in a multicultural, multireligion, and multi country world. We cannot expect everybody to know how to react to every single new situation. The road to tolerance is to tolerate intolerance.

So someone likely used to people making snide comments on her using the wrong bathroom and people using the wrong pronouns (which you just did, by the way, but that could be a typo) on a regular basis naturally reacted suspiciously to a comment you made. So what? You're telling people to be more tolerant towards bigoted/ignorant comments, but for no one to learn from it and realize why someone would be offended by being referred to as the wrong pronouns?

 

[VALIS]

She certainly needs help and I hope she gets it. Part of that help needs to be an acknowledgement of her wrongful behavior and a desire to, with medical/psychological help, begin anew with a healthier mindset. Nope, we don't have to put her on trial for great internet justice, no one has to make her feel bad (though if she did feel bad about this, it would be a positive step for her), but more of a basic, "Yep, you did wrong. Now let's move on." People excusing what she did are justifying and enabling more destructive behavior.

 

[Devolution]

While I certainly understand where you're coming from, open debate means tolerating those views that you find intolerable.

Besides, you aren't going to progress debate by excluding people based on your own moral compass, and all you do by shunting those who you disagree strongly with is if anything going to re-enforce their views by pushing them towards others with similar views.

Anyway, this thread is enlightening and depressing to me in equal measures, the cause of this suicide attempt aside, it's clear that psychological pain and suffering is not well understood in society as a whole. The fact we're still seeing people refer to Chloe as "him" shows that people put the physical over the mental state, and I'm saddened by that.

There isn't progressing debate with someone who's already stonewalling it with ignorance and an unwillingness to concede to facts.