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Geoff Keighley: PS4 Used Game DRM (EDIT: but now apparently on hold)

Computer

Computer

Member
Einbroch said:
PC it is.

Edit: Since people are just quoting this and not responding to my rebuttal:

I use GameFly, but since no console/system will support this if the rumors are true, I might as well go to the system that has the cheapest games, competition, no used sales price floor, and unlimited BC. Oh, and I already have a PC, so it's cheaper for me to upgrade than buy a new console.

I feel like a broken record.

Stop quoting this with "hurrrr when could you play used games on pc"
Click to expand...

You cant play used games on the PC.
 
E

Eusis

Member
REV 09 said:
Am I the only one who couldn't care less about these drm policies? It seems mostly normal in a progressively digital landscape. I've been gaming on Steam for the past 4 years and I can't trade any of those games in.
Click to expand...
Some of this at least really is kind of bullshit, how many mobile games require constantly dialing home?

Actually I guess Angry Birds Seasons did want it for starting stages. And so I stopped playing it, because a handheld game demanding that for each stage is profoundly stupid, but I guess they just made the assumption you'd ONLY play it on a phone.
Neo+Gaf=Nerd_Fap said:
You cant play used games on the PC.
Click to expand...
You can IF they don't need activation, but most of the time they could just be copied, or installed and the disc given to someone else. And thus why we ended up with CD keys and ultimately Steam.
 
W

Wickerbasket

Member
Neo+Gaf=Nerd_Fap said:
You cant play used games on the PC.
Click to expand...
Why would he choose console gaming though, if it has all the negatives of PC gaming and none of the advantages?

If you're going to have stuff tied to your account, better it be on the system with free online and great backwards compatibility.

If they want to use restrictive DRM with no resale value, then the prices should drop to accommodate that.

I'm not paying the same price for lesser value.
 
V

VillageBC

Member
I thought Sony had said DRM was up to the publishers earlier? They never said no DRM, of course their will be. PS3 has DRM, how do you think it's locked (despite FW hacks) so only retail purchase run. Or why stupid online pass codes showed up.

I have my doubts used game sales hurt the game market. My bet is more people buy questionable titles they might not be interested in because they aren't stuck holding a $60 title they aren't really interested in.
 
D

DBT85

Member
SneakyStephan said:
Why can't these weasels just come out and say it isn't, the fact that they are obviously considering it (else they'd go hur look at those anti consumer microsofts, we would never do that we love you guys) is enough to not make me want to support them.

They aren't benign, they would fuck us if they could, the intent is fully there.
When some perv tries to lure your child but backs off because he notices people watching , would you let him babysit anyway?
Same thing if you find out your local garage tried to once over you on car repairs, why the fuck would you ever go there again.
Click to expand...

Then never buy anything. Every company out there wants to bend you over and leave you raw. Some do it, some try to do it, some think about doing it and don't. But they ALL want to.
 
B

Bunta

Fujiwara Tofu Shop
open_mouth_ said:
anyone who thinks Ubisoft and EA is going to allow the PS4 to be without some sort of DRM like XB1 has is not being realistic. Sony's just trying to figure out how to break it to you all lolol
Click to expand...
Yeah, sure.

Jennifer-Lawrence-ok-thumbs-up.gif
 
E

Eusis

Member
VillageBC said:
I thought Sony had said DRM was up to the publishers earlier? They never said no DRM, of course their will be. PS3 has DRM, how do you think it's locked (despite FW hacks) so only retail purchase run. Or why stupid online pass codes showed up.

I have my doubts used game sales hurt the game market. My bet is more people buy questionable titles they might not be interested in because they aren't stuck holding a $60 title they aren't really interested in.
Click to expand...
That's why I'm hoping Sony really did only have an optional system in place and now are considering scrapping that too, as that'd give a safety net if they flip their minds back ground.

And it's possible that system (opt-in anti used) COULD have the advantage that publishers would just work out a deal with GameStop and threaten to take advantage if they don't share the profits, versus it being there whether we like it or not. In that event then it's possible everyone ends up happy: GameStop shares the profit with publishers so they don't use it, no actual DRM system is put in so everyone can still play offline or when the system's long since been replaced, and everyone ends up happy more or less (though I guess GameStop will be wishing for more of their profit back, but something's better than nothing.)
 
B

Bigmac1910

Member
If Sony is doing the always online DRM as MS, I'm out. There are so many different devices that play games today, that I can skip this whole next gen if I want to.
 
B

BlastProcessing

Member
Miles Quaritch said:
This puts a lot of pressure on MS, if true. A lot of pressure

MS can either continue down the current path or drop the anti used DRM/24hr check to offset any further backlash and be competitive with the PS4.
Click to expand...

I wonder if they could change course at this point? Maybe a hybrid system where you need to be online to play a game without a disk in the tray, but if the disk is there it works regardless of connection?

It would be amazing if both of these companies changed course due to consumer sentiment.
 
I

Iced_Eagle

Member
kingocfs said:
Why hasn't anyone in the press directly asked Sony about this in the wake of all of this MS nonsense?
Click to expand...

They asked this during the reveal.

Their official line is the same as MS' is. "Yes, we support used games. We will talk about the details later."

I assume that both Sony and MS are going to give the details at E3.
 
M

maabus1999

Member
My belief is that Sony has put the "details on hold" but not the "DRM policy" based on the very vocal hardcore gamer crowds reaction to MSFT.

Now they are going to figure out the PR on how to release the info, most likely with specific scenarios that sound like "oh that isn't too bad" to the gamer crowd where MSFT did not.

It's coming and it is going to be similar to MSFTs policy in some shape or form as there is more money in doing it and it honestly makes business sense (with publishers/developer relations and deals) to do it then not to. Yes it sucks, but reality is coming home.
 
B

Biker19

Banned
Green Yoshi said:
Sony said it is the decision of the publishers. But perhaps they will rethink that. If the games that are blocked won't sell and the games that can be sold are doing fine, publishers could change their mind. If there is no piracy possible on PS4, there is not really a need for Steam-like DRM.

Furthermore the PS4 has to be succesful, if the Xbox One will be a massive flop, Microsoft will be still doing fine as a company. They don't need gaming to be profitable.
Click to expand...

I agree. Sony's not exactly in the kind of position to fuck up again, especially when it took them a long time to get the PS brand name back on it's feet with PS3.
 
P

paskowitz

Member
Eusis said:
That's why I'm hoping Sony really did only have an optional system in place and now are considering scrapping that too, as that'd give a safety net if they flip their minds back ground.

And it's possible that system (opt-in anti used) COULD have the advantage that publishers would just work out a deal with GameStop and threaten to take advantage if they don't share the profits, versus it being there whether we like it or not. In that event then it's possible everyone ends up happy: GameStop shares the profit with publishers so they don't use it, no actual DRM system is put in so everyone can still play offline or when the system's long since been replaced, and everyone ends up happy more or less (though I guess GameStop will be wishing for more of their profit back, but something's better than nothing.)
Click to expand...

Been saying this for ages. Making optional is the best middle ground. Dev can implement what they want and consumers have a choice.
 
D

Dunlop

Member
enzo_gt said:
Even if they have it, PS4 has so much more going for it compared to the Xbox One I think the reaction would be significantly dampened because people are already firmly on the Sony train for all the other pro-consumer stuff it has going for it.
Click to expand...

Such as? They have tap danced around their online plans (i.e charging for MP)

I hope they don't go that route, but doubt they have a choice if publishers force them to
 
D

Daingurse

Member
Shinta said:
If they have changed their minds, and I think it's safe to say they're thinking about it, the message is 1000% clear.

Don't ever let anyone tell you to not complain about eroding consumer rights. Don't ever let anyone tell you to wait until E3 before making a final judgment.

BE VOCAL NOW! It clearly works much better than being silent.
Click to expand...

fnCzukI.gif


Excellent post.

Edit: Tweeted Yoshida as well and I never fucking use Twitter. No one can say Daingurse didn't try!
 
.la1n

.la1n

Member
Will be interesting to see what news comes out of E3, I do not want a future full of DRM, my gaming on PC has been hurt enough as is.
 
S

SykoTech

Member
What a mess of a thread. Twisted info initially in OP, back and forth insider claims, and console warrior crap everywhere. I'll just say this:

Sony, do NOT do it. No Internet Connection requirement. No Used Game DRM. Nothing.

I sincerely hope famousmortimer's sources are right and this was decided against in the end. It should not have even been considered, especially after that Orth controversy. But better to make a good last minute decision than to launch the console with such awful policies enforced.

Yeah, I know Sony ain't reading, but whatever. Had to post a comment like this on some non-Youtube place.
 
U

uuaschbaer

Banned
paskowitz said:
I think the key is making the used game system/policy OPTIONAL for devs to implement. This way at least consumers have a choice.

This way EA is happy and gamers are happy to buy games from another developer.

As opposed the XBO where every game has this system.
Click to expand...

Sony would run the risk of eroding the it-always-works-quality of their consoles. Parents will buy wiis because those other consoles are too pc-like. Reliability, simplicity and low prices seem to me to be essential for consoles and they would all be diminished.
 
M

Metalmurphy

Member
How did Sony flip its position in response to this week when they had already stated that they weren't going to do it and it was up to other publishers if they wanted to do it themselves? Doesn't make a lot of sense.

What exactly changed on Sony's part? They are now actively blocking third parties from doing it? Seems unlikely.



How are they even going to do it if the console works with out an internet connection.
 
E

Easy_D

never left the stone age
Dave Meltzer said:
How can I be in a better position to judge that than the publishers who take risks every day in order to bring joy to our lives?
Click to expand...

I think you misinterpret what the "industry" is. Gamers are the industry, protecting the industry is protecting the gamers from anti-consumer bullshit like this. Publishers want to force people to buy their games, instead of seeing the real problem (How much games cost to make and how much they cost for consumers to purchase).

The real problem isn't used games, the real problem is WHY people buy used games.
 
M

Man-is-Obsolete

Member
charlequin said:
It is literally as easy as just making the license transfer free. Nothing technical is standing in the way of MS doing the right thing here.



The big difference here is that publishers (as a whole) actually care way less about region-locking than preventing used sales.
Click to expand...

They would have to make it so you can deactivate a game from your account yourself, so it is not as easy as making it free license fee as you say. I have asked in other threads, but is Microsoft humble enough to change their stance, and what if their partnerships hinge on DRM? What if those exclusive EA deals are because of the system Microsoft implemented?
 
R

Rebel Leader

THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Shinta said:
If they have changed their minds, and I think it's safe to say they're thinking about it, the message is 1000% clear.

Don't ever let anyone tell you to not complain about eroding consumer rights. Don't ever let anyone tell you to wait until E3 before making a final judgment.

BE VOCAL NOW! It clearly works much better than being silent.
Click to expand...

Voice of the people
would be a nice tag.

Excellent post.
 
S

SneakyStephan

Banned
DBT85 said:
Then never buy anything. Every company out there wants to bend you over and leave you raw. Some do it, some try to do it, some think about doing it and don't. But they ALL want to.
Click to expand...

There are a lot of companies that actually do like the product they make and do want to make something good.
Believe it or not, not everyone works just for the paycheck and to get out of their shithole job so they can spend their monies, some enjoy what they do.

But yes, megacorporations are lead by cynics who generally only care about their bottom line, you are very right about that.
I guess i'm just old enough to remember independant grocery stores, bakeries, butchers, farms with people who took pride in their work.

Our best tv channel here is a non profit government ran one with no commercials.

I don't need console gaming, I'll be fine with not supporting it, I don't need to do it anyway and then rationalise why.
 
F

famousmortimer

Banned
Here's the entire list of sony folks I know of that either are in on the decisions or have the ears of people who are in on the decisions that are on twitter.


My biggest piece of advice is be respectful. They aren't likely to finish a tweet in all caps threatening them.

Shuhei Yoshida (president of worldwide studios) @yosp (easily the highest level person on twitter and quite accessible)

John Koller (head of hardware marketing) @jpkoller (dude has like 150 followers - heh)

Guy Longworth (senior vice president PlayStation Brand Marketing) @luckylongworth

Scott Rohde (PlayStation Software Product Development Head for Sony Worldwide Studios America) @rohdescott



Also couldn't hurt to let the ex-journos that work there like @nsuttner and @shanewatch
 
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